NYKBocker wrote:Mind games have started. Wade is planting the seeds for when they meet the Knicks in the ECF.

BUZACTLY!!!!!

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:Recent Quote again from him regarding efficiency....

"I hate that I really value efficiency. Because I look around the league sometimes and I see a guy shooting 41, 42 percent from the field and I'm like, 'Wow, they're just hoisting up shots and they don't care.' I guess that's that freedom, but I don't have that mindset. I want to be as efficient as possible."

Let's see since it's a very recent comment he has to talking about....

Westbrook
Kobe
Melo
Curry
Monta
J.R. Smith

possibly Harden

I'm thinking of guys who have the freedom to shoot whenever they want and at times aren't efficient.

Melo is NOT shooting 41 or 42 % this season. Also, Melo shoots 45% for his career... SMH, you try way too hard....

He said on "some nights" I see guys shooting etc etc....Melo's last game he shot 9-23fg

39 PACENT

Couple games prior to he shot 13-34fg

38 PACENT on unlimited freedom.... high CHUCKERAGE

Since he was directly asked about Scoring Title, yes he was trying drown out Melo's accomplishment

Again, Melo is shooting 45% for his career and 45% this season. THEREFORE, most night's Melo is above 41%. To conclude Wade is talking about Melo is pretty damn laughable and absurd. You try way too hard. I know it's been hard for you this season seeing the Knicks do well, win their division, get the second seed, etc. However, resorting to this sort of trolling is inexcusable.

3G4G wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:The three franchise players came together in Miami to win championships. They couldn't do it on there own so they sacrificed money and their share of the limelight to win championships. So yeah, they don't care about PPG after winning it once. Now they just want to win championshps.

Well Wade won a chip on his own if you count the 2006 chip as legit. I don't know if what they did would be deemed a sacrifice. It's much easier to keep a high level of efficiency when you aren't the singular focal point. I mean how many players have looked good during their career playing with Lebron and even Wade? Put them together then it's only natural to assume their numbers should look better from an efficiency standpoint. They've been players who have had very good levels of efficiency but stop trying to set trip between scoring titles and scoring efficiency.

THESE GUYS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN COMPLETE CLOWNERY AND YOU CAN TAKE "I DON'T WANT ANYMORE SCORING TITLES ON MY RESUME" TO THE BANK!!!!

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:Recent Quote again from him regarding efficiency....

"I hate that I really value efficiency. Because I look around the league sometimes and I see a guy shooting 41, 42 percent from the field and I'm like, 'Wow, they're just hoisting up shots and they don't care.' I guess that's that freedom, but I don't have that mindset. I want to be as efficient as possible."

Let's see since it's a very recent comment he has to talking about....

Westbrook
Kobe
Melo
Curry
Monta
J.R. Smith

possibly Harden

I'm thinking of guys who have the freedom to shoot whenever they want and at times aren't efficient.

Melo is NOT shooting 41 or 42 % this season. Also, Melo shoots 45% for his career... SMH, you try way too hard....

He said on "some nights" I see guys shooting etc etc....Melo's last game he shot 9-23fg

39 PACENT

Couple games prior to he shot 13-34fg

38 PACENT on unlimited freedom.... high CHUCKERAGE

Since he was directly asked about Scoring Title, yes he was trying drown out Melo's accomplishment

Again, Melo is shooting 45% for his career and 45% this season. THEREFORE, most night's Melo is above 41%. To conclude Wade is talking about Melo is pretty damn laughable and absurd. You try way too hard. I know it's been hard for you this season seeing the Knicks do well, win their division, get the second seed, etc. However, resorting to this sort of trolling is inexcusable.

There's only a handful of guys who shoot with unlimited freedom in the NBA and Melo shoots 41-42 PACENT on many nights my friend.

I listed 7 players I thought he could be referring to and stated Wade is a D-Bag trying to clown guys in general in particular Melo(since he'll be scoring champ)....but nope your ManCruch....ManLust....Melo Defense mechanism kicked in to high gear and here you are with Shield/Spear/Sword Camelot style for your hero.

Melo has shot under 42 PACENT......24 FREAKIN TIMES THIS YEAR OUT OF 67gms PLAYED

That's over 33% of his games. You Just Got Burned 3rd Degree

There are 3 types of statistics, lies, lies, and damn lies or something like that lol. You can massage the data around to support whatever conclusion you feel like having - soft science (psychology, sociology, etc)do it all the time especially when its political.

At the end of the day Melo is a career 45% shooter, while NEVER having a 2nd guy at the level of those Wade has had over his seasons. You can pick out a bunch of games where he shoots worse then his career average out of the season. I'm sure you can ahead and do that for Wade himself. If you really want to get fancy go ahead and figure out the variance of Melo's FG% or maybe tFG% see measure that. Either way it does not change the fact that you are ignoring major variables that are not being controlled for making your statistical comparison one to be taken with a grain of salt.

3G4G wrote:

simrud wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:Recent Quote again from him regarding efficiency....

"I hate that I really value efficiency. Because I look around the league sometimes and I see a guy shooting 41, 42 percent from the field and I'm like, 'Wow, they're just hoisting up shots and they don't care.' I guess that's that freedom, but I don't have that mindset. I want to be as efficient as possible."

Let's see since it's a very recent comment he has to talking about....

Westbrook
Kobe
Melo
Curry
Monta
J.R. Smith

possibly Harden

I'm thinking of guys who have the freedom to shoot whenever they want and at times aren't efficient.

Melo is NOT shooting 41 or 42 % this season. Also, Melo shoots 45% for his career... SMH, you try way too hard....

He said on "some nights" I see guys shooting etc etc....Melo's last game he shot 9-23fg

39 PACENT

Couple games prior to he shot 13-34fg

38 PACENT on unlimited freedom.... high CHUCKERAGE

Since he was directly asked about Scoring Title, yes he was trying drown out Melo's accomplishment

Again, Melo is shooting 45% for his career and 45% this season. THEREFORE, most night's Melo is above 41%. To conclude Wade is talking about Melo is pretty damn laughable and absurd. You try way too hard. I know it's been hard for you this season seeing the Knicks do well, win their division, get the second seed, etc. However, resorting to this sort of trolling is inexcusable.

There's only a handful of guys who shoot with unlimited freedom in the NBA and Melo shoots 41-42 PACENT on many nights my friend.

I listed 7 players I thought he could be referring to and stated Wade is a D-Bag trying to clown guys in general in particular Melo(since he'll be scoring champ)....but nope your ManCruch....ManLust....Melo Defense mechanism kicked in to high gear and here you are with Shield/Spear/Sword Camelot style for your hero.

Melo has shot under 42 PACENT......24 FREAKIN TIMES THIS YEAR OUT OF 67gms PLAYED

That's over 33% of his games. You Just Got Burned 3rd Degree

There are 3 types of statistics, lies, lies, and damn lies or something like that lol. You can massage the data around to support whatever conclusion you feel like having - soft science (psychology, sociology, etc)do it all the time especially when its political.

At the end of the day Melo is a career 45% shooter, while NEVER having a 2nd guy at the level of those Wade has had over his seasons. You can pick out a bunch of games where he shoots worse then his career average out of the season. I'm sure you can ahead and do that for Wade himself. If you really want to get fancy go ahead and figure out the variance of Melo's FG% or maybe tFG% see measure that. Either way it does not change the fact that you are ignoring major variables that are not being controlled for making your statistical comparison one to be taken with a grain of salt.

There is no massaging of data to support conclusion here....facts are facts

Wade is saying he values scoring efficiency over scoring leadership of league. Yes I already acknowledged he's being a DB trying to trend set SE(which isn't wrong in of itself) but would he feel the same had he yet to win a scoring title. I'm not so sure about that. At the same time...Wade and Lebron combined have shot under 42 PACENT 17 times this year(12 and 5 respectively), which does speaks volumes they are more conscious of the kind of shots they take vs the volume and amount of pts it leads to.

Numbers Don't Lie but they'll make some Posters Cry

Yes 2nd grade rhyming totally makes you correct! Way to restate your argument sans adding anything of value while ignoring the fact that you are comparing pigs to birds when you compare FG% of guys who play on a team with 3 all-stars to a guy who is pretty much by himself as far as creating his shot goes.

Bonn1997 wrote:You didn't read the article, did you? Wade has shot 50% with Lebron on the bench and his entire career average is 49.

Nor did he read my post where I acknowledged the pts he's trying to drive home. Like I said the Melo "defense mechanism" takes complete control over mind and body.

Like you said before Lebron, Wade was an already efficient player(I acknowledged this with earlier post) and with Lebron his efficiency has risen/stood a great chance to rise(I acknowledged this with earlier post) and as you stated with Lebron on the bench Wade remains efficient.

simrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You didn't read the article, did you? Wade has shot 50% with Lebron on the bench and his entire career average is 49.

CAREER SEASON AVERAGES

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 MIA 61 56 34.9 0.465 0.302 0.747 1.4 2.7 4.0 4.5 1.4 0.6 3.21 2.30 16.2
04-05 MIA 77 77 38.6 0.478 0.289 0.762 1.4 3.7 5.2 6.8 1.6 1.1 4.17 2.99 24.1
05-06 MIA 75 75 38.6 0.495 0.171 0.783 1.4 4.3 5.7 6.7 2.0 0.8 3.57 2.89 27.2
06-07 MIA 51 50 37.9 0.491 0.266 0.807 1.0 3.7 4.7 7.5 2.1 1.2 4.24 2.29 27.4
07-08 MIA 51 49 38.3 0.469 0.286 0.758 0.9 3.3 4.2 6.9 1.7 0.7 4.39 2.69 24.6
08-09 MIA 79 79 38.6 0.491 0.317 0.765 1.1 3.9 5.0 7.5 2.2 1.3 3.44 2.25 30.2
09-10 MIA 77 77 36.3 0.476 0.300 0.761 1.4 3.5 4.8 6.5 1.8 1.1 3.27 2.35 26.6
10-11 MIA 76 76 37.1 0.500 0.306 0.758 1.6 4.8 6.4 4.6 1.5 1.1 3.12 2.59 25.5
11-12 MIA 49 49 33.2 0.497 0.268 0.791 1.5 3.3 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 2.63 2.24 22.1
12-13 MIA 68 68 34.8 0.519 0.258 0.731 1.2 3.8 5.0 5.0 1.9 0.8 2.82 2.06 21.2
Career -- 664 656 37.0 0.489 0.289 0.767 1.3 3.7 5.1 6.1 1.8 1.0 3.47 2.48 24.7
All-Star -- 9 8 26.6 0.632 0.231 0.696 1.8 2.2 4.0 5.0 2.6 0.6 2.89 2.22 18.1

Look at his FG% in the years w/out Shaq/BronBosh and with them. Clearly goes up and down in correlation with that. Aside from the fact that he is a a career 0.489 not .5 which is a big difference both statistically and in terms of visual argument when you compare .45 and .5 vs .45 and .489.

Who said he shot .5 for career? Even if so .489 is eerily close to .5

Bonn clearly stated .49 which is correct. In 2003-2004 he was rookie shot 46%,(are you implying he should have shot better as a rookie?). Following yr improving player 48%(first year with Shaq), played with Shaq 4 seasons(2004-2008).... in one of those seasons he shot 47% but he wasn't healthy as he only played in 51gms. Next yr(2008-2009) without Shaq, No Lebron, No Bosh, he shot 49%(his best season BTW when he won the Scoring Title)

This is why it's been a brutal yr posting here....Facts are ignored and generally by a particular breed of posters.

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You didn't read the article, did you? Wade has shot 50% with Lebron on the bench and his entire career average is 49.

Nor did he read my post where I acknowledged the pts he's trying to drive home. Like I said the Melo "defense mechanism" takes complete control over mind and body.

Like you said before Lebron, Wade was an already efficient player(I acknowledged this with earlier post) and with Lebron his efficiency has risen/stood a great chance to rise(I acknowledged this with earlier post) and as you stated with Lebron on the bench Wade remains efficient.

BINGO...

3G4G wrote:

simrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You didn't read the article, did you? Wade has shot 50% with Lebron on the bench and his entire career average is 49.

CAREER SEASON AVERAGES

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 MIA 61 56 34.9 0.465 0.302 0.747 1.4 2.7 4.0 4.5 1.4 0.6 3.21 2.30 16.2
04-05 MIA 77 77 38.6 0.478 0.289 0.762 1.4 3.7 5.2 6.8 1.6 1.1 4.17 2.99 24.1
05-06 MIA 75 75 38.6 0.495 0.171 0.783 1.4 4.3 5.7 6.7 2.0 0.8 3.57 2.89 27.2
06-07 MIA 51 50 37.9 0.491 0.266 0.807 1.0 3.7 4.7 7.5 2.1 1.2 4.24 2.29 27.4
07-08 MIA 51 49 38.3 0.469 0.286 0.758 0.9 3.3 4.2 6.9 1.7 0.7 4.39 2.69 24.6
08-09 MIA 79 79 38.6 0.491 0.317 0.765 1.1 3.9 5.0 7.5 2.2 1.3 3.44 2.25 30.2
09-10 MIA 77 77 36.3 0.476 0.300 0.761 1.4 3.5 4.8 6.5 1.8 1.1 3.27 2.35 26.6
10-11 MIA 76 76 37.1 0.500 0.306 0.758 1.6 4.8 6.4 4.6 1.5 1.1 3.12 2.59 25.5
11-12 MIA 49 49 33.2 0.497 0.268 0.791 1.5 3.3 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 2.63 2.24 22.1
12-13 MIA 68 68 34.8 0.519 0.258 0.731 1.2 3.8 5.0 5.0 1.9 0.8 2.82 2.06 21.2
Career -- 664 656 37.0 0.489 0.289 0.767 1.3 3.7 5.1 6.1 1.8 1.0 3.47 2.48 24.7
All-Star -- 9 8 26.6 0.632 0.231 0.696 1.8 2.2 4.0 5.0 2.6 0.6 2.89 2.22 18.1

Look at his FG% in the years w/out Shaq/BronBosh and with them. Clearly goes up and down in correlation with that. Aside from the fact that he is a a career 0.489 not .5 which is a big difference both statistically and in terms of visual argument when you compare .45 and .5 vs .45 and .489.

Who said he shot .5 for career? Even if so .489 is eerily close to .5

Bonn clearly stated .49 which is correct. In 2003-2004 he was rookie shot 46%,(are you implying he should have shot better as a rookie?). Following yr improving player 48%(first year with Shaq), played with Shaq 4 seasons(2004-2008).... in one of those seasons he shot 47% but he wasn't healthy as he only played in 51gms. Next yr(2008-2009) without Shaq, No Lebron, No Bosh, he shot 49%(his best season BTW when he won the Scoring Title)

This is why it's been a brutal yr posting here....Facts are ignored and generally by a particular breed of posters.

I could not care any less about the homers vs. sombers or whatever it is these days. You are the one who finishes every post referring to it. I have not even posted much the past year or two. Yet you are putting me into a camp. Just argue the point, who cares about these forum fractions etc. Its guys like you who have to put everything into an us vs. them frame work that make the forum work in the way that you yourself proclaim not to like.

My point is that any player's FG and tFG are greatly affected by who he plays with. Wade in his prime may very well have been a better player then Melo to date and his FG% was higher. That has nothing to do with the fact that Melo's FG% would be higher if he played with the same level of talent that Wade has played with. Not higher than Wade's probably, but higher than 45 and with a lot less variance.

simrud wrote:

3G4G wrote:

simrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You didn't read the article, did you? Wade has shot 50% with Lebron on the bench and his entire career average is 49.

CAREER SEASON AVERAGES

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 MIA 61 56 34.9 0.465 0.302 0.747 1.4 2.7 4.0 4.5 1.4 0.6 3.21 2.30 16.2
04-05 MIA 77 77 38.6 0.478 0.289 0.762 1.4 3.7 5.2 6.8 1.6 1.1 4.17 2.99 24.1
05-06 MIA 75 75 38.6 0.495 0.171 0.783 1.4 4.3 5.7 6.7 2.0 0.8 3.57 2.89 27.2
06-07 MIA 51 50 37.9 0.491 0.266 0.807 1.0 3.7 4.7 7.5 2.1 1.2 4.24 2.29 27.4
07-08 MIA 51 49 38.3 0.469 0.286 0.758 0.9 3.3 4.2 6.9 1.7 0.7 4.39 2.69 24.6
08-09 MIA 79 79 38.6 0.491 0.317 0.765 1.1 3.9 5.0 7.5 2.2 1.3 3.44 2.25 30.2
09-10 MIA 77 77 36.3 0.476 0.300 0.761 1.4 3.5 4.8 6.5 1.8 1.1 3.27 2.35 26.6
10-11 MIA 76 76 37.1 0.500 0.306 0.758 1.6 4.8 6.4 4.6 1.5 1.1 3.12 2.59 25.5
11-12 MIA 49 49 33.2 0.497 0.268 0.791 1.5 3.3 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 2.63 2.24 22.1
12-13 MIA 68 68 34.8 0.519 0.258 0.731 1.2 3.8 5.0 5.0 1.9 0.8 2.82 2.06 21.2
Career -- 664 656 37.0 0.489 0.289 0.767 1.3 3.7 5.1 6.1 1.8 1.0 3.47 2.48 24.7
All-Star -- 9 8 26.6 0.632 0.231 0.696 1.8 2.2 4.0 5.0 2.6 0.6 2.89 2.22 18.1

Look at his FG% in the years w/out Shaq/BronBosh and with them. Clearly goes up and down in correlation with that. Aside from the fact that he is a a career 0.489 not .5 which is a big difference both statistically and in terms of visual argument when you compare .45 and .5 vs .45 and .489.

Who said he shot .5 for career? Even if so .489 is eerily close to .5

Bonn clearly stated .49 which is correct. In 2003-2004 he was rookie shot 46%,(are you implying he should have shot better as a rookie?). Following yr improving player 48%(first year with Shaq), played with Shaq 4 seasons(2004-2008).... in one of those seasons he shot 47% but he wasn't healthy as he only played in 51gms. Next yr(2008-2009) without Shaq, No Lebron, No Bosh, he shot 49%(his best season BTW when he won the Scoring Title)

This is why it's been a brutal yr posting here....Facts are ignored and generally by a particular breed of posters.

I could not care any less about the homers vs. sombers or whatever it is these days. You are the one who finishes every post referring to it. I have not even posted much the past year or two. Yet you are putting me into a camp. Just argue the point, who cares about these forum fractions etc. Its guys like you who have to put everything into an us vs. them frame work that make the forum work in the way that you yourself proclaim not to like.

My point is that any player's FG and tFG are greatly affected by who he plays with. Wade in his prime may very well have been a better player then Melo to date and his FG% was higher. That has nothing to do with the fact that Melo's FG% would be higher if he played with the same level of talent that Wade has played with. Not higher than Wade's probably, but higher than 45 and with a lot less variance.

Bonn1997 wrote:

simrud wrote:

3G4G wrote:

simrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:You didn't read the article, did you? Wade has shot 50% with Lebron on the bench and his entire career average is 49.

CAREER SEASON AVERAGES

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 MIA 61 56 34.9 0.465 0.302 0.747 1.4 2.7 4.0 4.5 1.4 0.6 3.21 2.30 16.2
04-05 MIA 77 77 38.6 0.478 0.289 0.762 1.4 3.7 5.2 6.8 1.6 1.1 4.17 2.99 24.1
05-06 MIA 75 75 38.6 0.495 0.171 0.783 1.4 4.3 5.7 6.7 2.0 0.8 3.57 2.89 27.2
06-07 MIA 51 50 37.9 0.491 0.266 0.807 1.0 3.7 4.7 7.5 2.1 1.2 4.24 2.29 27.4
07-08 MIA 51 49 38.3 0.469 0.286 0.758 0.9 3.3 4.2 6.9 1.7 0.7 4.39 2.69 24.6
08-09 MIA 79 79 38.6 0.491 0.317 0.765 1.1 3.9 5.0 7.5 2.2 1.3 3.44 2.25 30.2
09-10 MIA 77 77 36.3 0.476 0.300 0.761 1.4 3.5 4.8 6.5 1.8 1.1 3.27 2.35 26.6
10-11 MIA 76 76 37.1 0.500 0.306 0.758 1.6 4.8 6.4 4.6 1.5 1.1 3.12 2.59 25.5
11-12 MIA 49 49 33.2 0.497 0.268 0.791 1.5 3.3 4.8 4.6 1.7 1.3 2.63 2.24 22.1
12-13 MIA 68 68 34.8 0.519 0.258 0.731 1.2 3.8 5.0 5.0 1.9 0.8 2.82 2.06 21.2
Career -- 664 656 37.0 0.489 0.289 0.767 1.3 3.7 5.1 6.1 1.8 1.0 3.47 2.48 24.7
All-Star -- 9 8 26.6 0.632 0.231 0.696 1.8 2.2 4.0 5.0 2.6 0.6 2.89 2.22 18.1

Look at his FG% in the years w/out Shaq/BronBosh and with them. Clearly goes up and down in correlation with that. Aside from the fact that he is a a career 0.489 not .5 which is a big difference both statistically and in terms of visual argument when you compare .45 and .5 vs .45 and .489.

Who said he shot .5 for career? Even if so .489 is eerily close to .5

Bonn clearly stated .49 which is correct. In 2003-2004 he was rookie shot 46%,(are you implying he should have shot better as a rookie?). Following yr improving player 48%(first year with Shaq), played with Shaq 4 seasons(2004-2008).... in one of those seasons he shot 47% but he wasn't healthy as he only played in 51gms. Next yr(2008-2009) without Shaq, No Lebron, No Bosh, he shot 49%(his best season BTW when he won the Scoring Title)

This is why it's been a brutal yr posting here....Facts are ignored and generally by a particular breed of posters.

I could not care any less about the homers vs. sombers or whatever it is these days. You are the one who finishes every post referring to it. I have not even posted much the past year or two. Yet you are putting me into a camp. Just argue the point, who cares about these forum fractions etc. Its guys like you who have to put everything into an us vs. them frame work that make the forum work in the way that you yourself proclaim not to like.

My point is that any player's FG and tFG are greatly affected by who he plays with. Wade in his prime may very well have been a better player then Melo to date and his FG% was higher. That has nothing to do with the fact that Melo's FG% would be higher if he played with the same level of talent that Wade has played with. Not higher than Wade's probably, but higher than 45 and with a lot less variance.

You're making a claim that can't be tested. All that can be said is that scoring efficiency is remarkably stable even when players change teams. Basically, there's no evidence presently for the claim that putting someone on a better team makes them a more efficient scorer

If the claim that someone's FG% improves on a better team can't be tested, then how can you claim that the opposite is true? You should not be able to test then. You are contradicting yourself. I'm pretty sure you could come up with criteria and back test it if you wanted to. Its an effort but it can be done. It also actually makes sense which is always a good start for a theory.