dk7th wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:because FTs and drives are where you want them to come from. They're the highest percentage opportunities.

So you don't want someone to shoot well from the field?

I never said that. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be difficult. You should be smart enough to understand that perimeter shots are lower percentage and not the kind you want the player taking a ton of, even if he's having a hot week.
(That applies more to the 50 point game. Obviously today Melo attacked the basket great.)

Difficult? Really?

Putting that aside, while I agree, I am not arguing if a player is doing well. Carmelo gets his ass kicked. Look at the stats. In his 50 point game he shot 8 foul shots. In his 40 point game, he shot six. In his 41 point game he shot 4 (while grabbing 14 rebounds, 5 offensive). Today-the game you just said he did a much better job of driving the to the hole-he had 36, had 4 free throws and didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the fourth.

Now I ask in a game where he had 5 offensive boards and 41 points (last game) and a game where he had 36 and drove the lane better-by your account- he has a combined 8 free throw attempts. And once again, he didn't take his first free throws against the Thunder until 30 seconds left in the game.

The question is is it really an easier shot if you are driving, getting hit, and not getting the free throws or is it easier to hit from midrange with less interference?

Correction- Carmelo didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400278865&period=4

maybe you're wrong about him getting his ass kicked. he plays an aggressive style of ball without a whole lot of ball and head fakes. much of the contact he receives on drives is initiated by him in the first place and not the defender. it also doesn't help that he is wearing a lot of stuff around his belly and rib cage... and arms. refs factor all of this in and since they are 4 feet away they are in the best position to make no-calls.

Everything you just said can apply to just about every player in the league. Going back to Lebron, he doesn't initiate contact driving to the basket?

And did you just really say that it is ok that the refs decide whether to make foul calls based on the protective equipment worn by players? Wade wears....check out this article from 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/basketball/26pads.html?_r=0

By JONATHAN ABRAMS
Published: April 25, 2009

These days, basketball players are prepared to take a fall.

Many N.B.A. and college players wear thigh pads and chest pads beneath their loose-fitting uniforms, and their numbers have steadily risen. The quaint sport that Dr. James Naismith introduced to pass time in the winter has evolved into a full-contact sport requiring full-time protection.

“In the paint, basketball is very physical,” the Orlando Magic’s Dwight Howard said. “You’ve got elbows flying, bodies flying, crashing, people fighting for position. I don’t think people see all of that. That’s why a lot of people have been wearing those.”

He pointed to his teammate Mickael Pietrus, who was sliding into a flak jacket before a recent game.

The padding pioneer was Shaquille O’Neal, whose 7-foot-1, 315-pound frame provides ample room for bumps and bruises. O’Neal had worn girdlelike protection for a while, but five seasons ago when he joined the Miami Heat, he consulted with Ron Culp, then the team’s longtime trainer, on how to best nurse a bruised rib while continuing to play.

“When I came in, people thought the best way to stop me was to be physical,” said O’Neal, an 18-year veteran. “It didn’t really hurt. The little knickknack bruises started to add up.”

Culp considered having O’Neal wear a bulletproof vest, but it restricted movement and weighed too much. Culp then approached Kevin O’Neill, the Miami Dolphins’ head trainer.

O’Neal may stand taller, but he weighs about the same as many football players. And after witnessing the contact O’Neal absorbed, Culp said, it was only natural to consult a football team about protection.

“Basketball is the most physical noncontact sport in the world,” Culp said. “There’s a conundrum. You’re putting 10 oversized people in an undersized place and telling them to run as fast as they can and jump as high as they can and to not get hurt while doing it.”

Soon, the Heat’s Dwyane Wade started wearing the padding because he “bounces off of people like he is on a pool table,” Culp said.

O’Neal, now with Phoenix, said, “I’m a trendsetter, baby.”

LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Amar’e Stoudemire are also among those who don padding during games.

The game’s most dynamic players, those who draw the most attention and absorb the most contact, are regular users.

The extra cushioning provided by padded compression shorts and a tight-fitting padded V-neck undershirt goes mostly unnoticed.

But players are convinced that these special undergarments can prevent injury.

“It works,” Philadelphia 76ers forward Thaddeus Young said as he held a protective shirt. “It depends where you get hit at. You want to protect some of the things in your body, and I’ve gotten elbowed a couple times in my ribs and they tend to be hurting for a while.

“This gives me a little more peace of mind.”

Because of O’Neal and others, McDavid, a manufacturer of protective sports equipment based in Illinois, modified its N.F.L. gear for basketball use. Its HexPad technology involves forming foam composites into hundreds of lightweight hexagonal pads that are bonded into fabric. Unlike most football pads, they do not have to be removed for washing.

The N.B.A. is happy as long as no one sees the extra padding.

“Whether they’re wearing padded or nonpadded compression gear, they can’t be visible while they’re at a standstill, and the compression tanks can’t be visible under the jersey as well,” said Stu Jackson, the league’s executive vice president for basketball operations.

“The compression items that are issued by the team are from our apparel partner, which is Adidas. They’re cut in a way that are not visible, so if a player chooses to wear another compression item, it must be so it’s not visible.”

But that makes it tougher to market to younger players.

“That’s the hard part of the product, that nobody sees it,” said Rey Corpuz, McDavid’s marketing director, who estimated that basketball padding for all ages could become a $15 million to $20 million business for his company. “It’s designed specifically not to be seen at the N.B.A. level.”

Other companies, including Nike and Under Armour, have also developed protective padding for basketball players.

“We really see this as the new modern-day uniform system,” said Todd Van Horne, a Nike creative director. “You’re not just using the jersey that’s wearing the number on the outside. The players are bigger, they’re stronger. They’re more competitive.”

So are the companies that have entered this burgeoning apparel category. McDavid sued Nike and later Adidas, citing patent infringement, and is seeking to have them cease manufacturing padded undergarments. Neither lawsuit has not been resolved.

Derek Kent, a Nike spokesman, said that the lawsuit lacked factual merit and that Nike filed for its own patent nearly two years ago.

“As an innovation-orientated company for athletes during the last 36 years,” Kent said, “Nike believes that athletes can decide which products provide the greatest performance advantage and that both should be allowed to compete in the marketplace unchanged.”

The popularity of the padded garments for basketball has been a coup for McDavid.

“If you go back into the ’70s, guys are wearing knee pads,” Corpuz said. “Padding isn’t outside of the culture. Our biggest challenge was changing the mind-set of the average basketball player that padding was already there.”

Still, some players bristle at wearing body pads, fearing that they may restrict movement or questioning the need for them in the first place.

“Those guys who use them bang a lot,” the veteran Nets guard Keyon Dooling said. “They get the ball a lot more than me. Over the years, I’ve learned how to avoid being hit by the big guys.”

melo wears more padding than anybody else. i don't see the padding underneath the jerseys of other players. it is what it is. you do make a valid point about lebron james initiating contact but he makes contact at a faster speed than melo. because melo is slower and looks looks slower on his drives it means the defender is not moving backward as quickly and the contact made leaves a clearer impression that melo is more aggressive at creating the contact.

All do respect, you are rationalizing.

Why they are not making the calls is irrelevant. In this 4 game stretch, his free throws are way down. This game he didn't take his FIRST free throw until 30 seconds left in the fourth. The first option on our team, who you have twice said is as physical as anybody, the ref should call fouls on some of his shots by accident. There is no way he should have shot his first free throws that late. And he only got the other 2 because the Thunder were trying to stop the clock.

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:because FTs and drives are where you want them to come from. They're the highest percentage opportunities.

So you don't want someone to shoot well from the field?

I never said that. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be difficult. You should be smart enough to understand that perimeter shots are lower percentage and not the kind you want the player taking a ton of, even if he's having a hot week.
(That applies more to the 50 point game. Obviously today Melo attacked the basket great.)

Difficult? Really?

Putting that aside, while I agree, I am not arguing if a player is doing well. Carmelo gets his ass kicked. Look at the stats. In his 50 point game he shot 8 foul shots. In his 40 point game, he shot six. In his 41 point game he shot 4 (while grabbing 14 rebounds, 5 offensive). Today-the game you just said he did a much better job of driving the to the hole-he had 36, had 4 free throws and didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the fourth.

Now I ask in a game where he had 5 offensive boards and 41 points (last game) and a game where he had 36 and drove the lane better-by your account- he has a combined 8 free throw attempts. And once again, he didn't take his first free throws against the Thunder until 30 seconds left in the game.

The question is is it really an easier shot if you are driving, getting hit, and not getting the free throws or is it easier to hit from midrange with less interference?

Correction- Carmelo didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400278865&period=4

You're unnecessarily reducing the sample to a few games. Yes, Carmelo hits shots better at the rim than on the perimeter and he gets enough foul calls to be a league leader regularly in FTAs.

No I am not. I am talking about the criticism of his recent stretch which IS a few games. Did I talk about all season? No. I referred to 4 games.

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:because FTs and drives are where you want them to come from. They're the highest percentage opportunities.

So you don't want someone to shoot well from the field?

I never said that. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be difficult. You should be smart enough to understand that perimeter shots are lower percentage and not the kind you want the player taking a ton of, even if he's having a hot week.
(That applies more to the 50 point game. Obviously today Melo attacked the basket great.)

Difficult? Really?

Putting that aside, while I agree, I am not arguing if a player is doing well. Carmelo gets his ass kicked. Look at the stats. In his 50 point game he shot 8 foul shots. In his 40 point game, he shot six. In his 41 point game he shot 4 (while grabbing 14 rebounds, 5 offensive). Today-the game you just said he did a much better job of driving the to the hole-he had 36, had 4 free throws and didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the fourth.

Now I ask in a game where he had 5 offensive boards and 41 points (last game) and a game where he had 36 and drove the lane better-by your account- he has a combined 8 free throw attempts. And once again, he didn't take his first free throws against the Thunder until 30 seconds left in the game.

The question is is it really an easier shot if you are driving, getting hit, and not getting the free throws or is it easier to hit from midrange with less interference?

Correction- Carmelo didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400278865&period=4

You're unnecessarily reducing the sample to a few games. Yes, Carmelo hits shots better at the rim than on the perimeter and he gets enough foul calls to be a league leader regularly in FTAs.

No I am not. I am talking about the criticism of his recent stretch which IS a few games. Did I talk about all season? No. I referred to 4 games.

I'm sure Colin wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't a consistent pattern throughout Melo's career but rather was unique to these 4 games.

Once again, Colin is NOT a basketball guy. Colin is a huge college football guy. I have listened to him for years. And what I have been referring to wasn't just from Colin, it was from Ryan Rucco and Stephen A. Both guys who know basketball. I wouldn't even have batted an eye to it if I hadn't been listening to them slobber up Lebron during his streak. They were all about appreciating what was going on, how great his play was, not a single criticism. Then Melo pulls off what he has, a feat equal to Lebron's (if not better) offensively and the first thing they do is poke holes. It was odd because Stephen A is a Melo guy, but instead of appreciating the play it was about how he was getting his points and how he couldn't keep it up shooting mid range jumpers.

All I heard with Lebron was, how amazing the quality of basketball he was playing. Nothing about how it was impossible to keep up, or any criticism of it. With Melo it was he can't keep it up because....

It is just very noticeable the criticism Melo draws that no one else does.

holfresh wrote:I have never seen a player this good so polarizing...

It started with Karl in Denver, and blew up in New York. Melo didn't fit what Karl wanted, and his label as a ball-stopper carried over. I have a good feeling about this year, we make it to the ECF, put up a solid fight against the heat (win or lose), things will change. As a fanbase, we've been starved for so long that the decade of cynicism and disappointment is not easily erased. Some see melo as a false prophet, they've become so accustomed to losing that our current success seems like an brief mirage. This year's playoffs will be huge for Melo's rep here, he puts on a good show he will be rewarded by any fans that actually have love for this team.

joec32033 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:because FTs and drives are where you want them to come from. They're the highest percentage opportunities.

So you don't want someone to shoot well from the field?

I never said that. I'm not sure if you're just trying to be difficult. You should be smart enough to understand that perimeter shots are lower percentage and not the kind you want the player taking a ton of, even if he's having a hot week.
(That applies more to the 50 point game. Obviously today Melo attacked the basket great.)

Difficult? Really?

Putting that aside, while I agree, I am not arguing if a player is doing well. Carmelo gets his ass kicked. Look at the stats. In his 50 point game he shot 8 foul shots. In his 40 point game, he shot six. In his 41 point game he shot 4 (while grabbing 14 rebounds, 5 offensive). Today-the game you just said he did a much better job of driving the to the hole-he had 36, had 4 free throws and didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the fourth.

Now I ask in a game where he had 5 offensive boards and 41 points (last game) and a game where he had 36 and drove the lane better-by your account- he has a combined 8 free throw attempts. And once again, he didn't take his first free throws against the Thunder until 30 seconds left in the game.

The question is is it really an easier shot if you are driving, getting hit, and not getting the free throws or is it easier to hit from midrange with less interference?

Correction- Carmelo didn't take his first free throws until 30 seconds were left in the game.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400278865&period=4

maybe you're wrong about him getting his ass kicked. he plays an aggressive style of ball without a whole lot of ball and head fakes. much of the contact he receives on drives is initiated by him in the first place and not the defender. it also doesn't help that he is wearing a lot of stuff around his belly and rib cage... and arms. refs factor all of this in and since they are 4 feet away they are in the best position to make no-calls.

Everything you just said can apply to just about every player in the league. Going back to Lebron, he doesn't initiate contact driving to the basket?

And did you just really say that it is ok that the refs decide whether to make foul calls based on the protective equipment worn by players? Wade wears....check out this article from 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/basketball/26pads.html?_r=0

By JONATHAN ABRAMS
Published: April 25, 2009

These days, basketball players are prepared to take a fall.

Many N.B.A. and college players wear thigh pads and chest pads beneath their loose-fitting uniforms, and their numbers have steadily risen. The quaint sport that Dr. James Naismith introduced to pass time in the winter has evolved into a full-contact sport requiring full-time protection.

“In the paint, basketball is very physical,” the Orlando Magic’s Dwight Howard said. “You’ve got elbows flying, bodies flying, crashing, people fighting for position. I don’t think people see all of that. That’s why a lot of people have been wearing those.”

He pointed to his teammate Mickael Pietrus, who was sliding into a flak jacket before a recent game.

The padding pioneer was Shaquille O’Neal, whose 7-foot-1, 315-pound frame provides ample room for bumps and bruises. O’Neal had worn girdlelike protection for a while, but five seasons ago when he joined the Miami Heat, he consulted with Ron Culp, then the team’s longtime trainer, on how to best nurse a bruised rib while continuing to play.

“When I came in, people thought the best way to stop me was to be physical,” said O’Neal, an 18-year veteran. “It didn’t really hurt. The little knickknack bruises started to add up.”

Culp considered having O’Neal wear a bulletproof vest, but it restricted movement and weighed too much. Culp then approached Kevin O’Neill, the Miami Dolphins’ head trainer.

O’Neal may stand taller, but he weighs about the same as many football players. And after witnessing the contact O’Neal absorbed, Culp said, it was only natural to consult a football team about protection.

“Basketball is the most physical noncontact sport in the world,” Culp said. “There’s a conundrum. You’re putting 10 oversized people in an undersized place and telling them to run as fast as they can and jump as high as they can and to not get hurt while doing it.”

Soon, the Heat’s Dwyane Wade started wearing the padding because he “bounces off of people like he is on a pool table,” Culp said.

O’Neal, now with Phoenix, said, “I’m a trendsetter, baby.”

LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Amar’e Stoudemire are also among those who don padding during games.

The game’s most dynamic players, those who draw the most attention and absorb the most contact, are regular users.

The extra cushioning provided by padded compression shorts and a tight-fitting padded V-neck undershirt goes mostly unnoticed.

But players are convinced that these special undergarments can prevent injury.

“It works,” Philadelphia 76ers forward Thaddeus Young said as he held a protective shirt. “It depends where you get hit at. You want to protect some of the things in your body, and I’ve gotten elbowed a couple times in my ribs and they tend to be hurting for a while.

“This gives me a little more peace of mind.”

Because of O’Neal and others, McDavid, a manufacturer of protective sports equipment based in Illinois, modified its N.F.L. gear for basketball use. Its HexPad technology involves forming foam composites into hundreds of lightweight hexagonal pads that are bonded into fabric. Unlike most football pads, they do not have to be removed for washing.

The N.B.A. is happy as long as no one sees the extra padding.

“Whether they’re wearing padded or nonpadded compression gear, they can’t be visible while they’re at a standstill, and the compression tanks can’t be visible under the jersey as well,” said Stu Jackson, the league’s executive vice president for basketball operations.

“The compression items that are issued by the team are from our apparel partner, which is Adidas. They’re cut in a way that are not visible, so if a player chooses to wear another compression item, it must be so it’s not visible.”

But that makes it tougher to market to younger players.

“That’s the hard part of the product, that nobody sees it,” said Rey Corpuz, McDavid’s marketing director, who estimated that basketball padding for all ages could become a $15 million to $20 million business for his company. “It’s designed specifically not to be seen at the N.B.A. level.”

Other companies, including Nike and Under Armour, have also developed protective padding for basketball players.

“We really see this as the new modern-day uniform system,” said Todd Van Horne, a Nike creative director. “You’re not just using the jersey that’s wearing the number on the outside. The players are bigger, they’re stronger. They’re more competitive.”

So are the companies that have entered this burgeoning apparel category. McDavid sued Nike and later Adidas, citing patent infringement, and is seeking to have them cease manufacturing padded undergarments. Neither lawsuit has not been resolved.

Derek Kent, a Nike spokesman, said that the lawsuit lacked factual merit and that Nike filed for its own patent nearly two years ago.

“As an innovation-orientated company for athletes during the last 36 years,” Kent said, “Nike believes that athletes can decide which products provide the greatest performance advantage and that both should be allowed to compete in the marketplace unchanged.”

The popularity of the padded garments for basketball has been a coup for McDavid.

“If you go back into the ’70s, guys are wearing knee pads,” Corpuz said. “Padding isn’t outside of the culture. Our biggest challenge was changing the mind-set of the average basketball player that padding was already there.”

Still, some players bristle at wearing body pads, fearing that they may restrict movement or questioning the need for them in the first place.

“Those guys who use them bang a lot,” the veteran Nets guard Keyon Dooling said. “They get the ball a lot more than me. Over the years, I’ve learned how to avoid being hit by the big guys.”

melo wears more padding than anybody else. i don't see the padding underneath the jerseys of other players. it is what it is. you do make a valid point about lebron james initiating contact but he makes contact at a faster speed than melo. because melo is slower and looks looks slower on his drives it means the defender is not moving backward as quickly and the contact made leaves a clearer impression that melo is more aggressive at creating the contact.

All do respect, you are rationalizing.

Why they are not making the calls is irrelevant. In this 4 game stretch, his free throws are way down. This game he didn't take his FIRST free throw until 30 seconds left in the fourth. The first option on our team, who you have twice said is as physical as anybody, the ref should call fouls on some of his shots by accident. There is no way he should have shot his first free throws that late. And he only got the other 2 because the Thunder were trying to stop the clock.

okay i get it. he has had his best games shooting as a player but he is getting jobbed by the refs at the same time. and the reason he is getting jobbed by the refs is...?

There are stigma's to players who do well in the regular season and get treated like stars, but don't have the post season cred.

Just a theory as to why.