JamesLin wrote:Jordan:

1. Jordan won championships, even once when he's hella sick
2. Jordan worked well with someone he doesn't get along, Scottie Pippen
3. Jordan stiffed us Knicks all these years when we were dominating

LeBron:

1. Didn't come to Knicks simply to avoid tabloids exploiting his allegedly sexually liberated ugly mom.
2. Got his SAG card acting on this one hour vagina monologue called 'The Decision'.
3. Ditched the team that drafted him out right and send the city downward spiral for years.

Uhm.. yeah.. LeBron > Jordan and the world's coming to an end. I hate Jordan for obvious (Knicks) reasons btw, just in case someone thinks I'm all about Jordan.

Wow. At some point in time, we can agree with just about anyone.
I would add the word "flop" to the discussion, and see where it goes.
If Lebron had managed to drag the nobodies in Cleveland to a chip, you LeQ lovers would have something to talk about. Until then, the sample sizes don't even come close to being in a discussion.
There is really no comparison at this point.
MJ transcended sport.
LeQ is the manchild who transcends himself by "quitting in a playoff series".

Please tell me when MJ quit in the playoffs.

Please don't tell me about how MJ had Pippen. We talkin about Pippen?

These threads just never get old. martin, is it possible to get a "Group like threads together" function? I promise to click on some of these ad banners...

The HD digital present always tops out the fuzzy video tape.

Russell has 11 rings. ELEVEN RINGS IN 13 YEARS. The man won every game 7 he played in. Every single one. Russ played with Tom Heinsohn and the Jones brothers. Who I'm very sure would have made people forget about Bob Petit and Jerry Logo had they played without Russell.

Russ and MJ would tear your heart out and shove it down your dead dog's throat (after they had killed it) to win.

Lebron might postpone a meeting with his venture capital group, depending on market conditions.

jrodmc wrote:

JamesLin wrote:Jordan:

1. Jordan won championships, even once when he's hella sick
2. Jordan worked well with someone he doesn't get along, Scottie Pippen
3. Jordan stiffed us Knicks all these years when we were dominating

LeBron:

1. Didn't come to Knicks simply to avoid tabloids exploiting his allegedly sexually liberated ugly mom.
2. Got his SAG card acting on this one hour vagina monologue called 'The Decision'.
3. Ditched the team that drafted him out right and send the city downward spiral for years.

Uhm.. yeah.. LeBron > Jordan and the world's coming to an end. I hate Jordan for obvious (Knicks) reasons btw, just in case someone thinks I'm all about Jordan.

Wow. At some point in time, we can agree with just about anyone.
I would add the word "flop" to the discussion, and see where it goes.
If Lebron had managed to drag the nobodies in Cleveland to a chip, you LeQ lovers would have something to talk about. Until then, the sample sizes don't even come close to being in a discussion.
There is really no comparison at this point.
MJ transcended sport.
LeQ is the manchild who transcends himself by "quitting in a playoff series".

Please tell me when MJ quit in the playoffs.

Please don't tell me about how MJ had Pippen. We talkin about Pippen?

These threads just never get old. martin, is it possible to get a "Group like threads together" function? I promise to click on some of these ad banners...

The HD digital present always tops out the fuzzy video tape.

Russell has 11 rings. ELEVEN RINGS IN 13 YEARS. The man won every game 7 he played in. Every single one. Russ played with Tom Heinsohn and the Jones brothers. Who I'm very sure would have made people forget about Bob Petit and Jerry Logo had they played without Russell.

Russ and MJ would tear your heart out and shove it down your dead dog's throat (after they had killed it) to win.

Lebron might postpone a meeting with his venture capital group, depending on market conditions.

I don't disagree. Im going to keep harping on the point.

Russell and Jordan had amazing careers. We can look back and evaluate. Lebron is still 5-7 years still in prime.

Lets look at two players and compare.

Wilt and Russell. Who had a better career measured by winning? Russ of course. But Wilt was a better player?

We in starphuch territory. Wilt was the starphuch, Russ was the real deal.

Lets not split hairs on 5 vs 6 championships: Kobe vs. Mike. MIke of course wins but Kobe been to more finals? Thats gotta count. But Mike always wins because Kobe had Shaq for 3. So if Kobe didn't would we be able to say he was "better"?

It will be done over and over until Lebron is retired and we can measure:

Who was the better player? Who had the better career? I thought Lebron and what he did in the playoffs last year, in particular the Finals was better than any final series Jordan ever had. Statistically I read this was true.

Nothhing anyone has said about jordan is incorrect, he was the one for the ages. I think Briggs looks at Lebrons physical attributes and the skills he is developing.

tkf wrote:SO LEBRON is better than Jordan? jeez, I heard it all now.... why do these discussions even come up... I thought it was universally excepted that MJ was the greatest player to ever live? now lebron is better... well how about the standard that MJ set... he 3 peated twice, and never, ever lost in the finals? scoring titles? mvp's? wow.. again, why are we having this discussion?

Briggs are you bored again? LOL

We have the discussions because............

We have the discussions! Now I am discussing the discussion.

So much is subjective. Michael and the flu-game. Saw something on TV a few weeks back that suggested Mike was hung over and did not sleep the nite before and they made up "Flu". Would that change anyones perception of the legend? What if Mike had a nervous breakdown and the reason he "stepped away"?

Two three peats are cool as hell. Could there have more? Why didn't he get to the finals before age 27? Was mike great on his own or did his team/coach provide the base for him to be great?

His body of work speaks for itself and his legend is very substantial.

Lebron at age 24 took a team to the finals. Did he quit? For what reason? I don't know. I think what Briggs is saying is strip all the subjective aspects away and at the same age who is the better player for that moment? Does his size matter? Of course it does. The fact he is bigger and stronger? It matters. Rules change? Well Mike would benefit by todays rules. Seems he did pretty well as you could not touch him back then. Jordan would rip your heart out but Lebron won't? Kudos to jordan there but thats a subjective aspect that leads to performance.

At the same age, before Mike became a really good outside shot, Lebron is a better player. We'll have to see the next 6 years how Lebron does to add to the resume.

Have we ever seen a better faciliater AND finisher? Lebron is a total package who can play 5 positions.

gunsnewing wrote:We are having this discussion because Lebron has bigger muscles

+14 billion light years and any other invisible universes!

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

jrodmc wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We are having this discussion because Lebron has bigger muscles

+14 billion light years and any other invisible universes!

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!

Ya see everyone can agree once in a while. Even a broken clock is right twice a day

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

tkf wrote:SO LEBRON is better than Jordan? jeez, I heard it all now.... why do these discussions even come up... I thought it was universally excepted that MJ was the greatest player to ever live? now lebron is better... well how about the standard that MJ set... he 3 peated twice, and never, ever lost in the finals? scoring titles? mvp's? wow.. again, why are we having this discussion?

Briggs are you bored again? LOL

We have the discussions because............

We have the discussions! Now I am discussing the discussion.

So much is subjective. Michael and the flu-game. Saw something on TV a few weeks back that suggested Mike was hung over and did not sleep the nite before and they made up "Flu". Would that change anyones perception of the legend? What if Mike had a nervous breakdown and the reason he "stepped away"?

Two three peats are cool as hell. Could there have more? Why didn't he get to the finals before age 27? Was mike great on his own or did his team/coach provide the base for him to be great?

His body of work speaks for itself and his legend is very substantial.

Lebron at age 24 took a team to the finals. Did he quit? For what reason? I don't know. I think what Briggs is saying is strip all the subjective aspects away and at the same age who is the better player for that moment? Does his size matter? Of course it does. The fact he is bigger and stronger? It matters. Rules change? Well Mike would benefit by todays rules. Seems he did pretty well as you could not touch him back then. Jordan would rip your heart out but Lebron won't? Kudos to jordan there but thats a subjective aspect that leads to performance.

At the same age, before Mike became a really good outside shot, Lebron is a better player. We'll have to see the next 6 years how Lebron does to add to the resume.

Have we ever seen a better faciliater AND finisher? Lebron is a total package who can play 5 positions.

good point.. but when you say lebron is better than Jordan then we need to look at the whole body of work, I think even if you strip the subjective aspects away, jordans accomplishments speak for themselves... if you wan tto wait 6 years from now to measure both players, then I don't think someone should say that lebron is better than jordan...

If we measure by accomplishment, we have to wait.

The body of work by Lebron needs 7 more years. Bulls were way better team then Heat.

The end of this regular season at 28:

Lebron 4 MVP
Jordan 3 Mvp

Lebron 3 finals
Jordan 1

Lebron 1 championship
Jordan 1

We know how Jordans story ends, we don't know how Lebrons.

If you freeze this in a snapshot you have to go to scoring. Jordan a better scorer and Lebron a better facilitor.

We know Jordan played 15 seasons so the HOF players he came up against is a large list. It was a very good "dream team era"!

Lebron took two teams to finals, one on his back. That has to count somewhere. "failing in the finals" is not failing!

Its hard for many to foget the whole body of work and the rest of his career, but at age 28 its a compelling arguement.

Jordan grew muscles too! Jordan became a better player once he could shoot form the outside to save his body and trust his team mates. He also had pippen who was a lock down defender. Pippen guarded Magic Johnson. Magic never had anyone stop him before that!
Does it matter? It does if you start bringing in the subjective. Thats why its:

The end of this regular season at 28:

Lebron 4 MVP (im assuming he gets one this year.
Jordan 3 Mvp

Lebron 3 finals
Jordan 1

Lebron 1 championship
Jordan 1

If Miami wins they both have 2 champoinships.

Another note: Kobe benefited by Shaq able to move to LA without even doing a sign and trade to get a max deal! Jordan got 30mm which is about 50% higher than he could get now and that was 1998!!!!!!! In todays CBA could the Bulls afforded to keep a roster around Jordan that wins 6 in 8 years? Does mike move to a team that can pay him if the championships were not as probable with Bulls? Does Lebron stay with Miami or bolt to another team that can compete or stay? The new CBA changes everything!

I have nothing but respect for Jordan and his sociopathic desire to accomplish what he did regardless the era.

Will Lebron be able to measure his career in the same way? I doubt he can win 5 more chips unless the heat rebuild or he goes to another team.

Don't blow off Bill Russell folks. The dude had winning in his DNA.

blkexec wrote:Don't forget.....for people trying to use age as a comparison....lebron was 17/18 when he entered the nba. Jordan spent what 2-3 yrs in college?

Really please stop....let lebron create his own brand. He s not MJ...and he will never be. I just wish he was tested when he entered this league....wait til next season and lets see who was on hgh. Just watch how everybodys performance will drop. Wade, kobe, bron.....they are all on something illegal.

There not on anything illegal, in todays world, healthy eating has become a priority, not an option.
There's much more awareness..LBJ as most have said is not even in the same class as jordon, I respect LBJ cause he works hard and he's a very smart player, but he will never ever be close to MJ, maybe if MJ decided to join Thomas in detroit after getting smack around by them in the playoffs back to back years, you might compare them.

LBJ basically ruin his legacy by jumping ship (especially your home town) and he will always be looked at as a quitter who went on national television to announce that he was leaving his hometown team to join forces with 2 elite players.. Thats Not a Big Boy move, you gets no props, and your jersey was burned on national TV..Name me one HOF who did that