toad wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

toad wrote:Seriously, stop comparing JR to Starks. You clearly were not old enough in the 90s to appreciate what you were seeing, if you even really saw Starks play.

i was very young but also very smart, i always loved watching knicks with my dad

never saw the attitude problems that i see now but were they there? maybe i could not see them or i have grown cynical in my old age

You know, I have to think a lot of issues these days have to do with knowing too much about players' lives and the whole self promotional aspect of professional sports. It just seems like a different landscape, so it's hard to judge. I don't want to be one of those old heads that say everything was better back in the day.

I was just taking exception to that poster suggesting stats don't tell the whole story but then using them to compare Starks and JR, as if they had anything in common other than erratic shooting.

Starks was undrafted, signed, cut, went through the CBA, bagged groceries, then took an chance opportunity and made a career out of persistance, preparedness, and hard work. The guy made the most of every bit of talent he had. JR was a prodigy that jumped into the NBA from HS with a sense of entitlement, a reluctance to work on this game, and has become a 9 yr enigma.

Starks brought energy every night and defensively got in the face of the toughest marquee SGs of his time. JR plays defense occasionally.

Starks was loved by his coaches. JR was at odds with Scott and admitted to playing erratically just to piss off Karl. Can you imagine Riley telling Starks he needs to pull up his pants and be a man?

Starks played like he owed the fans something. JR, I'll just say, does not.

I don't even dislike JR really. I think he's ok for what he is. But, there is a reason Starks is loved in New York and it irks me that someone would make such an ignorant comparison.

I think the comparison is strickly erratic shooting and energy, especially during starks 6th man roll once allan houston got here..Obviously starks played in a different era where thug fashion wasn't the trend.

coming out of high school with no real guidence is probably one of the main reasons it's taking JR so long to mature, most high school drafties don't get it for a while, but there are special ones like LBJ, KG, who get it right away.

If you take a long look at the players that jump from High school to the pro's you'll notice the lack of maturity, and complete understanding of the game for most of there careers (see tyson chandler)

The knicks have a solid ball player in JR and picked a prime time in his career to aquire him, he's a very important piece to the puzzle and he's starting to realize it being around all this vets

misterearl wrote:Bloods

"Innocent until proven guilty."

Or Accused? (for spelling on a twitter account no less)

Is this America, or your wet fantasy of Candyland?

"Don't matter, lynch his black ass."

okay now you're just out of line. lets stick to basketball.

he is now shooting an execrable 49.7%TS. he gets to the line 3 times a game while shooting 16 times a game, 6 of which are 3 point shots. 3 assists.

you don't want him out there more than 20 minutes a game but he is playing 33 minutes a game.

this is a recipe for disaster come playoff time.

when we get bounced from the second round-- a distinct possibility now-- we need to get rid of him.

dk7th - speak for yourself. JR Smith is one of the best-conditioned and durable players on the roster. He goes hard and never misses a game. Never. He is versatile. He can play three positions on offense and defend three. Care to list others, on this roster, who can do the same?

If JR can provide 30 minutes of all-out effort and hustle, why put him on an arbitrary pitch count?

example:

5-18FG 3-14 3ptA 0FTA 2 assists

this is against miami

no he does not go hard every game. if he did he'd be getting to the line 6 times a game. he needs to reverse the number of threes and the number of free throws.

until then he is soft.

toad wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think the comparison is strickly erratic shooting and energy, especially during starks 6th man roll once allan houston got here..Obviously starks played in a different era where thug fashion wasn't the trend.

coming out of high school with no real guidence is probably one of the main reasons it's taking JR so long to mature, most high school drafties don't get it for a while, but there are special ones like LBJ, KG, who get it right away.

If you take a long look at the players that jump from High school to the pro's you'll notice the lack of maturity, and complete understanding of the game for most of there careers (see tyson chandler)

The knicks have a solid ball player in JR and picked a prime time in his career to aquire him, he's a very important piece to the puzzle and he's starting to realize it being around all this vets

The guy is trying too hard to try to place JR in some respectable place in Knicks lore. As far as lovable erratic shooters go, I think JR still has a ways to go before reaching Jamal Crawford status. No one should confuse him with Starks.

JC status..Really..He does have a way to go, but JC time as a knick had to be some of lowest times of the franchise..A solid playoff run should solidify JR's era

toad wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

toad wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think the comparison is strickly erratic shooting and energy, especially during starks 6th man roll once allan houston got here..Obviously starks played in a different era where thug fashion wasn't the trend.

coming out of high school with no real guidence is probably one of the main reasons it's taking JR so long to mature, most high school drafties don't get it for a while, but there are special ones like LBJ, KG, who get it right away.

If you take a long look at the players that jump from High school to the pro's you'll notice the lack of maturity, and complete understanding of the game for most of there careers (see tyson chandler)

The knicks have a solid ball player in JR and picked a prime time in his career to aquire him, he's a very important piece to the puzzle and he's starting to realize it being around all this vets

The guy is trying too hard to try to place JR in some respectable place in Knicks lore. As far as lovable erratic shooters go, I think JR still has a ways to go before reaching Jamal Crawford status. No one should confuse him with Starks.

JC status..Really..He does have a way to go, but JC time as a knick had to be some of lowest times of the franchise..A solid playoff run should solidify JR's era

Not really Jamal's fault the organization was a mess. He was pretty much the same chucker JR is now. He hit thrilling game winning shots. He made eye-popping moves but wildly inconsistent. Similar FG%, better 3pt shooter, more coachable. Both can be serviceable if reigned in and given a clear role. Yeah, I give Jamal the edge for a longer tenure so far and being a good soldier during a crappy era.

misterearl wrote:dk7th - until then he is soft

JR Smith and Tyson Chander are the only Knicks to play in all 57 games.

Soft?

Perfect attendance is a sign of durability.

In terms of style of play, his recent double figure rebounding efforts indicate a desire to operate in traffic...or be in the right place at the right time. When the average player is 6'7 220, driving inside is much easier written about than done. You will get hit.

The floor is hard.

Inefficient and Erratic Won't Cut It

lets put it this way, misterearl... you need to get to the line in the playoffs to be effective especially when you are erratic, streaky, and unpredictable as a shooter. you need to draw fouls and the only way to do that is to take it to the hoop.

lets also bear in mind that chucking up 3s leads to long rebounds and are tantamount to turnovers.

he shoots too many 3s. too many 3-based turnovers. not enough trips to the line. inefficient and erratic won't cut it.

this only spells trouble for the knicks, especially in the second round.

fish - As far as I am aware, as I have talked with Mike Woodson, not only he does not hold any hate towards "black guys", I would submit that Mike Woodson would also never use the term "black guys"

As far as Woodsons displeasure with Smith it is well documented. JR is still playing a major role and there is nothing changing about that, for better or worse.

Love is tough sometimes.

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:dk7th - until then he is soft

JR Smith and Tyson Chander are the only Knicks to play in all 57 games.

Soft?

Perfect attendance is a sign of durability.

In terms of style of play, his recent double figure rebounding efforts indicate a desire to operate in traffic...or be in the right place at the right time. When the average player is 6'7 220, driving inside is much easier written about than done. You will get hit.

The floor is hard.

coach said himself JR shoots too many 3s and needs to attack the basket more. Maybe Woody hates black guys too? Iverson went to the line as much as Shaq. Toughness and drawing contact is a big weakness in JRs game and its not lacking of skill, simply desire.

I wouldnt get on JR about it myself, some guys have it others dont. He clearly doesnt.

MrEarl.. what hurts more? Getting inked with a needle from head to toe or the occasional hard foul? Just curious?

Knicks have a toughness problem. JR isnt helping. How does he fit into this team? When he's shooting well he spreads the floor beautifully. When he's not he takes us right out games. Go look at his FG% in wins vs. losses. Pretty big gap.

This team as a whole is one of the softest teams in the NBA, when there getting bullied the whine to the refs, you can easily get in to the head of numerous players on this team.

JR is no Thug, don't let the Tats and the sagging pants fool you.

Shumpert is getting back his first step. I believe he'll get the lateral movement back and improve his shooting, but he really needs to improve his dribble more than anything else IMO. Sometimes it looks like his foot speed overwhelms his dribble. If he can get that down he's going to be hard to stop.

Win 4 and go 20 games over .500

Carmelo, to play or not to play?

Don't disturb this groove.