dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

Well actually Lebron is a scumbag for what he did to Cleveland but if you want to try and find heroism in the decision these players made you can find it for Lebron too. He did leave money on the table so he, Wade, and Bosh could be on the same team to help Miami get a chip. He's been to back-to-back Finals with 1 chip in hand...mission accomplished. Second in Miami's franchise history pretty significant wouldn't you say?

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

Well actually Lebron is a scumbag for what he did to Cleveland but if you want to try and for heroism in the decision these players made you can find it for Lebron too. He did leave money on the table so he, Wade, and Bosh could be on the same team to help Miami get a chip. He's been to back-to-back Finals with 1 chip in hand...mission accomplished. First in Miami's franchise history pretty significant wouldn't you say?

Well Miami has won a Chip already if that is what u are referring to...But keeping it real, I would not have done what Bron did...But Bron is on his way to Michael type money so in percentage terms, it may not make any difference..But 15/20 mil could make a huge difference in Melo's life down the road...So, would you leave the money on the table???

jrodmc wrote:

Dagger wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

Well actually Lebron is a scumbag for what he did to Cleveland but if you want to try and for heroism in the decision these players made you can find it for Lebron too. He did leave money on the table so he, Wade, and Bosh could be on the same team to help Miami get a chip. He's been to back-to-back Finals with 1 chip in hand...mission accomplished. First in Miami's franchise history pretty significant wouldn't you say?

2006...

LOL

lol

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

That is my point. He was going to the Nets. Melo had the leverage to have his cake and eat it too!

I'll give Dwight Howard credit this year, he is all in going free agent even with his bad shoulder and not quite 100% back.

But no lock out. Dwight did not opt out last year I would gather because of his back problems. he might not have known surgery was going to happen but his back hurt and its always possible.

If knicks wanted Melo there was a price to pay. they decided to pay it.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

you're doing exactly as i described: looking at the raw number of 15-20 million and not seeing that it is a discount for him, not a lower order of magnitude. in other words he is not being asked to make 10 million over the next 5 years. that's what i mean by order of magnitude: one-tenth of what he could be earning. no he could have pondered that he'd be earning 15-20% less overall and still be a millionaire 150 times over for his career.

to answer your question based upon what i have just re-explained: of course it is an entirely new life for me and for anyone who doesn't make 10 million a year.

again, melo taking the discount does very little if anything to change his way of life or his present lifestyle.

You have no clue what his situation is going to be down the road...How many athletes have u seen gone broke after earning many millions many times over..Too much to count..Kurt Schilling the most recent..So you would take the money and Melo shouldn't???

apples and oranges holfresh.

15 million would change my life it would not change his... it's simple. i don't know why this is hard to understand. lets say i make 6 figures-- he makes 8 figures. that's 2 orders of magnitude greater. 100 times more than i make. a discount of 15-20 million over five years does not reduce his income from 8 figures a year to 7 figures... you do understand that don't you? it means instead of averaging 21 million a year he is making 16-17 million a year instead. please say you understand this.

and the last part of your post is downright irrational, i have to say... now you want him to get every red cent because you are concerned he will blow it down the road like schilling and other athletes who don't know how to invest wisely or are profligate? come on man!

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

you're doing exactly as i described: looking at the raw number of 15-20 million and not seeing that it is a discount for him, not a lower order of magnitude. in other words he is not being asked to make 10 million over the next 5 years. that's what i mean by order of magnitude: one-tenth of what he could be earning. no he could have pondered that he'd be earning 15-20% less overall and still be a millionaire 150 times over for his career.

to answer your question based upon what i have just re-explained: of course it is an entirely new life for me and for anyone who doesn't make 10 million a year.

again, melo taking the discount does very little if anything to change his way of life or his present lifestyle.

You have no clue what his situation is going to be down the road...How many athletes have u seen gone broke after earning many millions many times over..Too much to count..Kurt Schilling the most recent..So you would take the money and Melo shouldn't???

apples and oranges holfresh.

15 million would change my life it would not change his... it's simple. i don't know why this is hard to understand. lets say i make 6 figures-- he makes 8 figures. that's 2 orders of magnitude greater. 100 times more than i make. a discount of 15-20 million over five years does not reduce his income from 8 figures a year to 7 figures... you do understand that don't you? it means instead of averaging 21 million a year he is making 16-17 million a year instead. please say you understand this.

and the last part of your post is downright irrational, i have to say... now you want him to get every red cent because you are concerned he will blow it down the road like schilling and other athletes who don't know how to invest wisely or are profligate? come on man!

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Same guy who forced us into giving up the players we wouldve won a championship with if he remained patient. If we stay the same well be 2nd round at best and out--simple.

With all the facts in hindsight to evaluate his opt out, lock out, and pending surgery (minor, but still its surgery) you still really think he and the franchise would have "remained patient"?

I would agree with you that could we have retained our assets for either play or trades it would have enriched us to title contenders but I just don't think it was viable.

Regarding his "make no trades" statement, was it in the form of a question? Its good locker room politics isn't it? NBA players running their mouth because media has to do their jobs.

When any one of us leave 20 mil+ on the table and do what is right for the company knowing your career is limited to x number of years then maybe we can say what Melo should have done..Not saying particularly u Nolad but this line of thinking keeps coming up like some here would actually have done it...

you exaggerate it's closer to 15 million which would have been a 15% pay cut.

other players may have been willing to take a 15% pay cut to ensure a better chance at winning a title.

either melo likes money more than winning or he thought that the players that would be ex-knicks were not good enough to help him achieve the goal of winning a title and cementing his legacy.

or both.

god knows the majority of knick fans don't think much of the players we traded away but given how old this team is, breaking down, it may have been a strategic and critical error on melo's part.

yes the nuggets were not going to let melo walk for nothing. but it would have left walsh in an indomitable negotiating position where we would be giving up the bare minimum.

how can you guys nail down a $15-$20M number when it was a big unknown what the new CBA would be... or is this just all in hindsight?

actual figures are an unknown but what is not unknown is order of magnitude of how much money he would have lost by waiting for free agency so far as that was possible.

people will tend to look at the raw figure and say he would be foolish to give up that amount of money. but in the grand scheme of things he is still making tens upon tens of millions per year for the duration of the contract. then there are the endorsement deals and the benefits of living in new york in terms of advertising, etc. etc.

it's about values. it is surely not easy to win a title, so if you are interested in winning then you do some careful consideration in addition to money before steaming ahead heedless of the consequences.

Well what ever the actual number was, some people viewed what Melo did was a stand up thing for Denver unlike what Bron did leaving his organization high and dry...It's was easier trying not to look like the bad guy and say I'm not sure what I will do at the end of the season...

But that's neither here or there..Questions is, would you leave 15/20 mil on the table because you wanted to do "right" by your new team???..I don't know you but 15 mil, the type of money that would probably change your family's life right now???...

you're doing exactly as i described: looking at the raw number of 15-20 million and not seeing that it is a discount for him, not a lower order of magnitude. in other words he is not being asked to make 10 million over the next 5 years. that's what i mean by order of magnitude: one-tenth of what he could be earning. no he could have pondered that he'd be earning 15-20% less overall and still be a millionaire 150 times over for his career.

to answer your question based upon what i have just re-explained: of course it is an entirely new life for me and for anyone who doesn't make 10 million a year.

again, melo taking the discount does very little if anything to change his way of life or his present lifestyle.

You have no clue what his situation is going to be down the road...How many athletes have u seen gone broke after earning many millions many times over..Too much to count..Kurt Schilling the most recent..So you would take the money and Melo shouldn't???

apples and oranges holfresh.

15 million would change my life it would not change his... it's simple. i don't know why this is hard to understand. lets say i make 6 figures-- he makes 8 figures. that's 2 orders of magnitude greater. 100 times more than i make. a discount of 15-20 million over five years does not reduce his income from 8 figures a year to 7 figures... you do understand that don't you? it means instead of averaging 21 million a year he is making 16-17 million a year instead. please say you understand this.

and the last part of your post is downright irrational, i have to say... now you want him to get every red cent because you are concerned he will blow it down the road like schilling and other athletes who don't know how to invest wisely or are profligate? come on man!

Take a look at what a peer of Melo's did in the situation where he had to choose playing where he wanted versus taking the extra money. D-Will wanted to play in his hometown for the Mavs with Jayson Kidd. He did not want to be a Net. Analysts last summer were saying if he wants to win he goes to Dallas if he wants the extra 25 mil the Nets can give him he stays a Net. It certainly wasn't apples and oranges to him. There was no way he could give up that amount of money.

gunsnewing wrote:and Joe Johnson who got the richest contract in the league from Atlanta

Instead of blaming Melo blame the Knicks organization for not having the foresight to realize that paying 2 guys, not named Lebron, $20m per hurts your teams ability to build a true championship contender