3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:I dont see why anyone is upset, one player is the best in the league, the other has the best record in the league and is the second best player.

If Melo is to have a shot, he has to have the best record in the league, like Derrick Rose, otherwise, he's merely a contestant in the race.

It will require more than that if things remain as they are from a individual statistical standpoint. There have been MVPs in the past on teams without the best record in the NBA. I posted the ESPN article for several different reasons. It gave us a little insight into what outlets like ESPN(they aren't alone in this peice)feel are important when measuring an MVP and it's not simply best record.

I think ESPN is the measuring stick for most Sport Outlets whether it's Sports Illustrated/NBA.com/CBS Sports/Yahoo Sports/Fox Sports/BBR.com and other respected Blog Sites . Otherwise CP3 should be ahead of Lebron on every NBA Sport venue.

Which is why i mentioned Derrick Rose, he didn't have any other accolades that others had, only best record.

And his PER was a whopping 23.

Best record got him in.

No, that's not what only got him the award.....

It was the absence of playing with Noah/Boozer for 1/3 of the season, the fact it was a "CAREER YEAR" for him, he was considered the best "POINT GUARD" in the NBA, and a Top 10 player in the NBA, he beat the best teams that season.....

Although they overinflated his impact on his team as evidence from what we've seen 2yrs post MVP award him missing tons of games himself and Bulls still being a very successful team during the season as it is a "REGULAR SEASON" award.

The best record was the MAIN reason.

Dude it changes every year and it wasn't the singular most reason. Chicago and San Antonio had the best record in the NBA last year and not 1 strong candidate for MVP. Having the best record in the NBA in no way shape or form locks a player into winning the award.

So saying Melo can get it if we have the best record because Rose got it because the Bulls had the best record in the league... in a season as HISTORICAL as Lebron and Durant are having is just irresponsible, reckless, irrational posting.

What is the debate? I said "to have a shot" meaning it's the minimum requirement, as I'm agreeing with you he has no shot and is merely a contestant in the race.

But if you think the Bulls record didn't have the most important factor in him winning the award you're delusional.

He wouldn't have won it without it.

Sometimes you guys have to read a post every now and then, it was a simple point that cannot be debated.

Yes I think Derrick Rose would have won if they didn't have the best record and finished anywhere from 55-60 wins.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/05/03/mvp-award/index.html

Noticed Howard finished 2nd in voting and Orlando only had 52 wins.

You're putting tons of emphasis on Team Wins because of the position we currently hold in the NBA recordwise. There are many other factors Melo would have to overcome to win it from them. Having best record would most certainly help but it would have to be a compilation of things.

Rose, who became the first player since Steve Nash in 2005 to win the MVP award after not receiving any votes in the previous year's balloting, led the Bulls to an NBA-best 62-20 mark. The third-year player averaged team highs of 25.0 points and 7.7 assists to go along with 4.1 rebounds. He became the seventh player in NBA history to average at least 25.0 points,

7.5 assists and 4.0 rebounds, joining Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. The All-Star guard made or assisted on at least half of the Bulls' field goals in 26 games, the highest such total for any NBA player this season.

Wins first....then stats....in his case, but without the wins, there is no award for him, your own quoted article proves it.

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:I dont see why anyone is upset, one player is the best in the league, the other has the best record in the league and is the second best player.

If Melo is to have a shot, he has to have the best record in the league, like Derrick Rose, otherwise, he's merely a contestant in the race.

It will require more than that if things remain as they are from a individual statistical standpoint. There have been MVPs in the past on teams without the best record in the NBA. I posted the ESPN article for several different reasons. It gave us a little insight into what outlets like ESPN(they aren't alone in this peice)feel are important when measuring an MVP and it's not simply best record.

I think ESPN is the measuring stick for most Sport Outlets whether it's Sports Illustrated/NBA.com/CBS Sports/Yahoo Sports/Fox Sports/BBR.com and other respected Blog Sites . Otherwise CP3 should be ahead of Lebron on every NBA Sport venue.

Which is why i mentioned Derrick Rose, he didn't have any other accolades that others had, only best record.

And his PER was a whopping 23.

Best record got him in.

No, that's not what only got him the award.....

It was the absence of playing with Noah/Boozer for 1/3 of the season, the fact it was a "CAREER YEAR" for him, he was considered the best "POINT GUARD" in the NBA, and a Top 10 player in the NBA, he beat the best teams that season.....

Although they overinflated his impact on his team as evidence from what we've seen 2yrs post MVP award him missing tons of games himself and Bulls still being a very successful team during the season as it is a "REGULAR SEASON" award.

The best record was the MAIN reason.

Dude it changes every year and it wasn't the singular most reason. Chicago and San Antonio had the best record in the NBA last year and not 1 strong candidate for MVP. Having the best record in the NBA in no way shape or form locks a player into winning the award.

So saying Melo can get it if we have the best record because Rose got it because the Bulls had the best record in the league... in a season as HISTORICAL as Lebron and Durant are having is just irresponsible, reckless, irrational posting.

What is the debate? I said "to have a shot" meaning it's the minimum requirement, as I'm agreeing with you he has no shot and is merely a contestant in the race.

But if you think the Bulls record didn't have the most important factor in him winning the award you're delusional.

He wouldn't have won it without it.

Sometimes you guys have to read a post every now and then, it was a simple point that cannot be debated.

Yes I think Derrick Rose would have won if they didn't have the best record and finished anywhere from 55-60 wins.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/05/03/mvp-award/index.html

Noticed Howard finished 2nd in voting and Orlando only had 52 wins.

You're putting tons of emphasis on Team Wins because of the position we currently hold in the NBA recordwise. There are many other factors Melo would have to overcome to win it from them. Having best record would most certainly help but it would have to be a compilation of things.

ironically that same article mentions the Bulls RECORD first, even before his stats.

Rose, who became the first player since Steve Nash in 2005 to win the MVP award after not receiving any votes in the previous year's balloting, led the Bulls to an NBA-best 62-20 mark. The third-year player averaged team highs of 25.0 points and 7.7 assists to go along with 4.1 rebounds. He became the seventh player in NBA history to average at least 25.0 points,

7.5 assists and 4.0 rebounds, joining Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. The All-Star guard made or assisted on at least half of the Bulls' field goals in 26 games, the highest such total for any NBA player this season.

Wins first....then stats....in his case, but without the wins, there is no award for him, your own quoted article proves it.

Dude they are simply highlighting the highlights, you're reaching pointing that out. I'm not saying the record didn't help but if it's end all be all as you're on your last breath trying so hard to weigh the scales with..... there's no need to mention any of the other accomplishments which took up the bulk of the commentary as to why he won mind you

And since you went there....

Time to Go Loaded Lux on you

Here's the Link to Lebron winning last year

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/12/mvp-release/index.html

Notice the first thing they mentioned in the article...it was the Heat's record....Guess what they didn't have the best record last year. Then they go on to mention all the many other things as to why he won.

knickscity wrote:It's why Rose won that year, your article pointed it out as such, I haven't said every best record wins it, you just wanna think i said that.

I said for Melo to have a shot, meaning the minimum for him to have a chance.

The article clearly did not mention that's the reason he won....it was the first highlight mentioned amongst his highlights just the same as when Lebron won last year...which proves NBA.com uses a template more than anything else to formulate their pieces....So in review

Rose's Script(Best Record in NBA) 2010-2011

Rose, who became the first player since Steve Nash in 2005 to win the MVP award after not receiving any votes in the previous year's balloting, led the Bulls to an NBA-best 62-20 mark. The third-year player averaged team highs of 25.0 points and 7.7 assists to go along with 4.1 rebounds. He became the seventh player in NBA history to average at least 25.0 points,

7.5 assists and 4.0 rebounds, joining Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James. The All-Star guard made or assisted on at least half of the Bulls' field goals in 26 games, the highest such total for any NBA player this season.

Lebron's Script(Not The Best Record In The NBA) 2011-2012

James led the Heat to a 46-20 mark and the No. 2 seed in the Eastern Conference Playoffs. Despite averaging a career-low 37.5 minutes, the eight-time All-Star led the NBA in plus-minus score differential (+7.6) and ranked third in scoring (27.1 ppg), while pacing the Heat in assists (6.2

apg) and tying for the team lead in rebounds (7.9 rpg). In addition, James established career bests in field goal percentage (.531) and three-point field goal percentage (.362).

This season, James was named the Eastern Conference Player of the Month twice (January and February), and he captured Eastern Conference Player of the Week honors six times, extending his NBA record for the most Player of the Week awards to 37. James has scored double-figure points in 419 consecutive career games, the seventh-longest streak in NBA history, behind Michael Jordan (866), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (streaks of 787 and 508), Karl Malone (575), Moses Malone (526), and Oscar Robertson (428).

knickscity wrote:Rose dont win without the record....think otherwise if you want.

I don't think he said that.. he said it was a compilation... record plays a part, but the bulls didn't need the best record... in other words you could easily say... without his stats he doesn't win... think otherwise if you want as well..

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:Rose dont win without the record....think otherwise if you want.

I don't think he said that.. he said it was a compilation... record plays a part, but the bulls didn't need the best record... in other words you could easily say... without his stats he doesn't win... think otherwise if you want as well..

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:Rose dont win without the record....think otherwise if you want.

I know that last post hurt because Lebron won without the best record which goes to show it's more about what I said...MVP ascendancy depends on quite a few factors and a player can win without having the best record. It's not a prerequisite as you're trying to make it be.

The year Rose won it Howard came in 2nd with the worst record of the Top 7 finishers.

Nash won 1 of his 2 MVPs when his team had the 4th best record in the NBA. James came in 2nd that year his team had the 6th best record in the NBA. Dirk finished 3rd his team had the 3rd best record in the NBA.

Spurs that year won 63gms and Detroit won 64gms 1st and 2nd best record in the league...Billups finished 5th and Duncan finished 8th in voting and for the RECORD, and for the RECORD, and for the RECORD, and for the RECORD.......Steve Nash Suns won 54gms that season practically 10gms behind those 2 teams.

Please brush up on the MVP candidacy history and how it evolves year-to-year

If anything you probably want to think more along the lines I'm presenting in the case for Melo because we more than likely won't have the best record. I stated in the other thread Melo's season is pretty good, our team record is pretty good, he has thrashed Lebron/Duncan head-to-head 2. Things like this have to continue(when he faces Lebron/Durant/CP3) along with individual improvements in his game. His numbers need to approach HISTORICAL levels. He needs a lot more than best overall record

Rose won his award that year because of the teams record primarily, it was the main factor.

Now if you find a post where i'm stating MVP's always have the best record I'd like to see it.

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:Rose dont win without the record....think otherwise if you want.

I don't think he said that.. he said it was a compilation... record plays a part, but the bulls didn't need the best record... in other words you could easily say... without his stats he doesn't win... think otherwise if you want as well..

His stats actually weren't that good which is why there was alot of debate on that.

Did you even look at the NBA link that I posted Rose did you see what company he was in, IN NBA HISTORY...7th player in History to post those numbers and you say his stats weren't that good...SHEESH!

knickscity wrote:

knickscity wrote:I dont see why anyone is upset, one player is the best in the league, the other has the best record in the league and is the second best player.

If Melo is to have a shot, he has to have the best record in the league, like Derrick Rose, otherwise, he's merely a contestant in the race.

This was my original quote, I'd like to see where I'm stating all MVP's have the best record?

It wasn't the main factor.... otherwise Howard wouldn't have finished 2nd with team total wins of 52. There is no article stating it was the main factor, you have presented no data stating it was the main factor. Just opinion and living in the moment of where our team is at today using this as the basis to build the shot in the dark case for Melo.

The trend wouldn't follow the Rose pattern of 1 year since all the previous years in summation proved it wasn't based on team record. Trying to use 1 year to crutch your case only hurts it more.

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:Rose dont win without the record....think otherwise if you want.

I don't think he said that.. he said it was a compilation... record plays a part, but the bulls didn't need the best record... in other words you could easily say... without his stats he doesn't win... think otherwise if you want as well..

His stats actually weren't that good which is why there was alot of debate on that.

Did you even look at the NBA link that I posted Rose did you see what company he was in, IN NBA HISTORY...7th player in History to post those numbers and you say his stats weren't that good...SHEESH!

Sure i did, and no they weren't, he put up alot of numbers but he wasn't efficient at all.

I'm amazed you're still trying to debate something so damn simple.

Shaq has put up some ridiculous numbers as well and only has one MVP, so stats aren't always a factor.

I've always said it's many variables, which determine an MVP although some yrs very few and far in between there might be an edge/angle some voters are looking at. Sure the record helped Rose, Nash making his teammates better helped him, Kidd before he smacked his wife record turnaround would have helped him, but Rose...Rose to the Top early because of the absence of Noah and Boozer while they were winning...

Even in the article I posted to start the thread ESPN is focusing on Lebron and Durant's HISTORICAL seasons more so than record(record is a helper) although 1 of them has the 4rth best record in the NBA.