Nalod wrote:
I wonder what Denver fans perspective is?

The Homer prism by which we look at this is going to conclude we "Won" the trade.

20 games into the season hardly makes for a conclusion.

Let's cut the crap already. It's more than obvious we murdered Denver during our trade for Melo.

What did Denver lose during the trade? They lost their franchise player in Carmelo Anthony. They lost an elite player in whom led their franchise to 7 or 8 consecutive trips to the postseason prior to missing the postseason during 9 consecutive years before the drafting of Melo. They were a laughing stock joke of a franchise before the drafting of Melo. Melo changed the culture of their entire franchise from the day they selected Melo during the draft.

Once again, let's cut the crap already. When Denver lost Melo, they lost alot. What did New York lose?

Did we lose Eddy Curry? Where's Curry as of right now? My guess is that Curry is a free agent after being released by San Antonio. What about AR15? Did we also lose Anthony Randolph? What has Anthony Randolph as a Denver Nugget done here in 2012-2013? Try an average of only 6.3 minutes, 1.0 points, 1.0 boards, 0.8 assists, 0.3 blocks and 0.8 turnovers per game. AR ranks dead last on Denver's team in regards to minutes per game. 13th man off their bench. Timofey Mozgov. At the time of the trade we (actually) had Knick fans against the Melo trade, all because a rookie project Center from Russia in Mozgov was included as a 'throw in'. Here in 2012-2013 Mozgov has only averaged 13.6 minutes per game as Denver's 3rd string Center behind both Kosta Koufos and JaVale McGee. Only averaging 3.5 points, 4.5 boards and 0.6 blocks per game. Nothing more than a career backup/3rd stringer. Did we "lose" Wilson Chandler? Because the last time I checked Wilson Chandler is now 25 years of age, only played 8 games last season and has only recorded 70 minutes of playing time here in 2012-2013. Wilson Chandler has only played in 4 games due to injury. During these 4 games he's only averaged 6.5 points and 5.0 boards off 10/32 shooting (.313%). Did we also lose Raymond Felton? He's actually returned to the Knicks while currently averaging 16.5 points and 6.8 assists per game. Only committing 2.3 turnovers per game.

We gave up Felton, Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Randolph and Curry for a franchise player. We gave up Felton, Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Randolph and Curry for one of the greatest NBA players in the game today. What and/or who did we lose? Nothing.

What did Denver lose? Alot. They lost Melo. Lets stop acting as if Melo didn't force his way out of Denver. What did Denver gain now that Felton has returned back to New York? Wilson Chandler, Timofey Mozgov and Danilo Gallinari? Nice to know. Kind of hard to consider Denver gaining Gallo, when they lost Melo; who's 10x the SF that Gallo could ever dream of becoming.

21 months later and...

Rasheed Wallace has replaced Anthony Randolph.
Kurt Thomas has replaced Eddy Curry.
Raymond Felton has returned to New York.
J.R Smith has replaced Wilson Chandler.
Tyson Chandler has replaced Timofey Mozgov.
Carmelo Anthony has replaced Danilo Gallinari.

15-5 overall. Current 1st seed of the Eastern Conference. 10 games above .500.

What have the Nuggets done?

10-11 overall. Current 9th seed of the Western Conference. 1 game belo .500.

As of right now, in regards to the trade, they've walked away with Gallo, Mozgov and Chandler. We walked away with our franchise leader in Melo along with the returning of Raymond Felton.

Bonn1997 wrote:They lost all that and yet have still been a .600 team. Hard to believe.

Now that Felton has returned to New York, what did Denver gain during our trade for Melo though? Funny that you have no answer.

They downgraded their SF position with Melo for Gallo.. No?

Which means they've only "gained" Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov due to the Melo trade...

Also, I'm not sure how you can state that Denver has been a ".600 team" since trading Melo. Back in 2010-2011 Denver went 19-11 (overall) during the season in which they traded Melo. 18-7 during the regular season along with 1-4 during the postseason. 19-11 overall. Denver went 38-28 (.576) during the shortened season of 2011-2012 last year. Once you factor in the playoffs of the shortened season Denver went 41-32 last year. Here in 2012-2013 they've only gone 9-10 overall.

Not sure how Denver has played .600 ball since the trading of Melo, that's not unless you believe your own thoughts and/or lies to make yourself feel better.

Denver has gone 69-53 overall since the Melo trade. Far from playing .600 ball. Not even close to playing .600 ball for that matter...

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They lost all that and yet have still been a .600 team. Hard to believe.

Now that Felton has returned to New York, what did Denver gain during our trade for Melo though? Funny that you have no answer.

They downgraded their SF position with Melo for Gallo.. No?

Which means they've only "gained" Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov due to the Melo trade...

Also, I'm not sure how you can state that Denver has been a ".600 team" since trading Melo. Back in 2010-2011 Denver went 19-11 (overall) during the season in which they traded Melo. 18-7 during the regular season along with 1-4 during the postseason. 19-11 overall. Denver went 38-28 (.576) during the shortened season of 2011-2012 last year. Once you factor in the playoffs of the shortened season Denver went 41-32 last year. Here in 2012-2013 they've only gone 9-10 overall.

Not sure how Denver has played .600 ball since the trading of Melo, that's not unless you believe your own thoughts and/or lies to make yourself feel better.

Denver has gone 69-53 overall since the Melo trade. Far from playing .600 ball. Not even close to playing .600 ball for that matter...

I believe they've played over .600 in games Gallo & Moz have played in though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:They lost all that and yet have still been a .600 team. Hard to believe.

Now that Felton has returned to New York, what did Denver gain during our trade for Melo though? Funny that you have no answer.

They downgraded their SF position with Melo for Gallo.. No?

Which means they've only "gained" Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov due to the Melo trade...

Also, I'm not sure how you can state that Denver has been a ".600 team" since trading Melo. Back in 2010-2011 Denver went 19-11 (overall) during the season in which they traded Melo. 18-7 during the regular season along with 1-4 during the postseason. 19-11 overall. Denver went 38-28 (.576) during the shortened season of 2011-2012 last year. Once you factor in the playoffs of the shortened season Denver went 41-32 last year. Here in 2012-2013 they've only gone 9-10 overall.

Not sure how Denver has played .600 ball since the trading of Melo, that's not unless you believe your own thoughts and/or lies to make yourself feel better.

Denver has gone 69-53 overall since the Melo trade. Far from playing .600 ball. Not even close to playing .600 ball for that matter...

I had no answer because you didn't wait for my reply. You can't ask a question and then in the same post declare that the person has no answer! They gained Gallo, Andrei Miller, draft picks, role players (Moz and Chandler), and cap space. To be clear, I know you weren't here at the time but I did *not* argue that the Knicks should just keep the guys you keep mentioning (Moz, Chandler, etc.). I argued we needed to create cap space and build assets in order to try to trade for or sign CP3, Harden, Dwight or any other stars that become available.

I'm sorry I wouldn't take Harden or Dwight over Melo. CP3 of course but you never know how that would have play'd out. He could have Lebronned us. We got who we got. and who we gave up to get him were either scrubs or mediocre. Also callign Mox and Chandler role players is a reach. Bench warmers is more like it right now. We shall see how their precious cap space helps them in the years to come.

I still find it insulting putting Harden in the same breath as Melo.

Nalod wrote: Carrie called to remind you that the Nuggs were 38-28 last season. Knicks 36-30.

Denver having a better record when compared to New York last year had nothing to do with Denver "winning" the trade, but everything to do with Denver having a much better overall roster both before (and after) the trade. Denver built a true contender around Carmelo Anthony for many of years, so Denver having a better team as of last year wasn't due to Gallo, Chandler and Mozgov either, but because of players such as...

Ty Lawson.
Arron Afflalo.
Kenneth Faried.
Nene.
JaVale McGee.
Kosta Koufos.
Al Harrington.
Corey Brewer.

So, lets stop acting just because Denver had a better record than New York last season, that Denver "won the trade". They also had a much better team before the trade, for many of years too. Doesn't change the fact that we've became a stronger team since the trade for Melo while Denver has taken a couple of steps back. How about we look at this season in regards to both franchises moving forward?

Knicks: 15-5.
Denver: 10-11.

Outside of Amar'e Stoudemire, we've built our entire team around Carmelo Anthony. Melo's the center piece of the strongest team out of the Eastern Conference as of right now.

Bonn1997 wrote:Rather than distorting history, I honestly posted what I was targeting. I obviously didn't know Dwight would have back problems but I still think a Howard/Chandler front-court would be truly awesome. You go with Harden over Melo if you overvalue PPG and undervalue scoring efficiency and passing. I doubt the Rockets would trade Harden for Melo right now. We're talking about 25 PPG on efficient scoring, 6 assists, 4 rbs, & 2 stls for a 23 year old.

I would take Melo/Chandler over Dwight/Chandler...not saying Dwight is not a beast but I do think he is over valued even before his back injury. He disappears in the 4th, shoots terrible from FT line and post moves are so robotic. Some might say he took a scrub Magic to the final but I think he had more help then people give that team. Hedo, Alston,Lewis helped out a lot especially in 4th quarters.

I do undervalue scoring efficiency so you are right there. Something about his game disturbs me. I also think for playoff basketball Melo game is better. Harden looked terrible in the finals last year when refs didn't go for his flops. Miami guarded him with one guy and he just looked lost.

Honestly only reason Houston wouldn't make that trade is age and I still think they would make that trade if they had another star to win now.

Bonn1997 wrote:How can you be a "true contender" when you lose in the first round 6 out of 7 years?

Just because Denver never eliminated the likes of dynasty teams such as the Lakers and Spurs doesn't mean they weren't considered to be true Western Conference contenders. Because they were. Anyone who's followed NBA basketball over the years not only knows but also understands/rememberers how respected Melo's Nuggets truly were. Melo spent 7 full seasons in Denver and led them to the playoffs each and every year, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference as well.

How many rings have Kobe Bryant and the Lakers and/or Tim Duncan and the Spurs combined for? These teams were already dynasty teams years before Melo ever entered the NBA draft. Like I've already stated, Kobe had two rings before Melo joined the league and Duncan also had two rings before Melo joined the league.

To act as if Denver weren't true contenders is foolish. 4 of Melo's 7 playoff eliminations with Denver came against the likes of the Lakers (x2) and Spurs (x2). That doesn't change the fact that Melo led his Denver franchise to the Western Conference Finals against the Lakers. That series went 7 games. But yet, you don't consider that as being a true contender, all because Denver lost a game 7 against the Lakers during the Western Conference Finals? Melo also led his teams to Western Conference seeds as high as the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seeds. Yea, right, they "weren't contenders". Melo's Nuggets also eliminated CP3's Hornets 4-1. Also eliminated Dirk's Mavs 4-1.

To consider Melo's Nuggets as anything other than contenders is foolish.

knickstorrents wrote:

raven wrote:Kidd is a miracle, him and Chandler are a gift from Cuban, who dismantled his team instead of trying for a repeat. Those 2 guys changed everything, they have the spirit that Melo has lacked all his career and we're blessed to have them.
But the clock is ticking, so let's not waste Kidd's last good years, this guy is a Hall of Famer, one of the all-time greats at his position.

Agree, to me the key pieces to this team are Kidd and Chandler. The strong play from Felton is great too. Sorry, I'm a Melo hater, always have been, always will be

At least you admit it. Its blinded you though. Kidd and Chandler are great cogs but benefit from having Melo in the lineup. Kidd can't break anyone down anymore. Chandler doesn't have a post game. Melo isn't a top notch facilitator. Together they work. This team can get by without Kidd. Melo or Chandler I'm not quite sure.

knickstorrents wrote:

raven wrote:Kidd is a miracle, him and Chandler are a gift from Cuban, who dismantled his team instead of trying for a repeat. Those 2 guys changed everything, they have the spirit that Melo has lacked all his career and we're blessed to have them.
But the clock is ticking, so let's not waste Kidd's last good years, this guy is a Hall of Famer, one of the all-time greats at his position.

Agree, to me the key pieces to this team are Kidd and Chandler. The strong play from Felton is great too. Sorry, I'm a Melo hater, always have been, always will be

Melo's been our franchise/team MVP here in 2012-2013. Without question too.

But yea, Melo isn't a key player to our team? Nice to know, because...

1st in minutes per game.
1st in player efficiency rating.
1st in team scoring.
2nd in team rebounding.

Say otherwise.

IronWillGiroud wrote:

NUPE wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.

Gallo is a two trick pony now

Novak has been seen playing D! Getting deflections! That's two tricks, too! Gallo, the two trick pony with really bad 3FG% versus two trick pony with really good 3FG%!