VCoug wrote:
This and what happens when Amare comes back are my two biggest worries. We seem very reliant on 3-pointers; when they're falling we look practically unbeatable but when they aren't we don't look very good. I'm hoping to see more posting and driving, especially from Melo, in the near future.

Relax and visualize Chris Copeland as the second coming of David Lee.

VCoug wrote:
Q. I like what I've seen from Copeland but how is he similar to David Lee?

A. Lee is 6'9 240. Cope is 6'8.5 235. Lee is 29 years old. Cope is 28. But, enough with the superficial stuff. The similarity is versatility. What makes Lee (17, 11 and 4) so lovable is that he makes contributions in multiple columns of the scorebook. Copeland, although he is still unpacking from his European tour, flashes the same ability in scoring (stand still and off the dribble), rebounding and assists. Both have excellent hops and soft hands. They both catch well in traffic and both can make layups despite contact. Copeland can score from distance and off the dribble. He can post up and drive to the hoop.

Now for the good news. Cope may refine his game to become the superior defender. Both are rugged and strong enough to dish out pain. At first glance, Cope appears have better lateral quickness. Lee is more deliberate. Both will never be confused with Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan, still, the are both effective in their unique styles - Lee as a lefty... Cope with the flying dreadlocks.

Of course, the sample size is skewed heavily in David Lee's favor, but who you gunna believe?... Your friendly neighborhood Answer Man... or some dude on the NYPost payroll who is not paying close attention to detail?

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is where Amare fits in

Habits will have set in by then. Shooting deep perimeter shots as a first option is a habit not an adaptive style of play nor one that leans to mixing styles. It's not like we were ever fine tuned with Amar'e. Amar'e will have his knee on his mind when he plays too.

Shooting deep perimeter shots is not the first option. the shots are coming from plays, deep penetration, drives and kicks and more. This team rarely looks out of control and most of the time are taking shots they wanted to take. It's not a chuck fest out there. I've already seen plenty of times already this season if we get cold from outside Melo & Felton makes a effort to drive and get to the foul line. We have a coach that makes common sense adjustments.

The team is running this style to shoot the 3ball, ISO Melo, or throw lobs..... not layups, midrange shots, shots off screens, backdoors, pts in the paint, from the post, from the elbow....etc etc. Our players stay perimeter the majority of the game. It is a chuckfest it just doesn't look like it because we're making the shots wait till they stop falling. It's the very reason we have big leads yet teams are never truly out of the game.

we are next to last in points in the paint.... we are not driving and kicking, heck, we are not driving much at all...not sure what people are looking at...

And exactly why is that such a big deal for you to keep pointing out? Especially since Amare, who will provide more inside scoring is injured?

But since you think this is the ONLY way of winning and teams that score inside typically do better, let's throw out a few facts.

1. Let's take the Detroit Pistons for example, just because that's where I'm from and went to every game from 2003 - 2006. Detroit won the NBA championship in 2004 - ranked 24 in points in the paint. 2005 went to the finals again - RANKED DEAD LAST in points in the paint. Made it to the conference finals in 06, 07, and 08 -- again ranked last in points in the paint.

2. Dallas Mavs - Guess what ... ranked 26th in their championship year.

3. The other recent championships that went to the lakers, Heat(2006), spurs and celtics is because those teams had 3 people - Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

4. Not to say that scoring points in the paint is not the way to go, but history proves that so many other teams have done it the opposite way and sustained for YEARS.

5. Also here is the bad with your argument, Denver and houston are leading this year with points in the paint, but are only at .500. The kings are third and have a record of 4-12. Last year the top 3 teams were Denver, Utah (both lost in the 1st rd and matter of fact Utah was swept) and The kings, who didn't make it to the playoffs.

6. The knicks are doing other things to makeup for the deficit. How about mentioning that in turnovers we are in 1st place? That we are 2nd in 1st qt margin and 7th in the 2nd qt, which means we are taking care of business early. What about us being 9th among the defense this year? Or does defense do not count? Because we are 4th in steals.

Nice first post.

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is where Amare fits in

Habits will have set in by then. Shooting deep perimeter shots as a first option is a habit not an adaptive style of play nor one that leans to mixing styles. It's not like we were ever fine tuned with Amar'e. Amar'e will have his knee on his mind when he plays too.

Shooting deep perimeter shots is not the first option. the shots are coming from plays, deep penetration, drives and kicks and more. This team rarely looks out of control and most of the time are taking shots they wanted to take. It's not a chuck fest out there. I've already seen plenty of times already this season if we get cold from outside Melo & Felton makes a effort to drive and get to the foul line. We have a coach that makes common sense adjustments.

The team is running this style to shoot the 3ball, ISO Melo, or throw lobs..... not layups, midrange shots, shots off screens, backdoors, pts in the paint, from the post, from the elbow....etc etc. Our players stay perimeter the majority of the game. It is a chuckfest it just doesn't look like it because we're making the shots wait till they stop falling. It's the very reason we have big leads yet teams are never truly out of the game.

we are next to last in points in the paint.... we are not driving and kicking, heck, we are not driving much at all...not sure what people are looking at...

And exactly why is that such a big deal for you to keep pointing out? Especially since Amare, who will provide more inside scoring is injured?

But since you think this is the ONLY way of winning and teams that score inside typically do better, let's throw out a few facts.

1. Let's take the Detroit Pistons for example, just because that's where I'm from and went to every game from 2003 - 2006. Detroit won the NBA championship in 2004 - ranked 24 in points in the paint. 2005 went to the finals again - RANKED DEAD LAST in points in the paint. Made it to the conference finals in 06, 07, and 08 -- again ranked last in points in the paint.

2. Dallas Mavs - Guess what ... ranked 26th in their championship year.

3. The other recent championships that went to the lakers, Heat(2006), spurs and celtics is because those teams had 3 people - Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

4. Not to say that scoring points in the paint is not the way to go, but history proves that so many other teams have done it the opposite way and sustained for YEARS.

5. Also here is the bad with your argument, Denver and houston are leading this year with points in the paint, but are only at .500. The kings are third and have a record of 4-12. Last year the top 3 teams were Denver, Utah (both lost in the 1st rd and matter of fact Utah was swept) and The kings, who didn't make it to the playoffs.

6. The knicks are doing other things to makeup for the deficit. How about mentioning that in turnovers we are in 1st place? That we are 2nd in 1st qt margin and 7th in the 2nd qt, which means we are taking care of business early. What about us being 9th among the defense this year? Or does defense do not count? Because we are 4th in steals.

well first of all I didn't say this is the only way.. can you point out where I said that? if not then don't quote things I never said..

next:

did all of those teams take as many threes as we did? seems like those teams are the exception not the rule? and yea, the lakers, heat, spurs and celts have won most of the titles and they score a lot in the paint.. but guess what, the spurs won scoring points in the paint, not just because or duncan..but also tony parker.... heat, with wade, celts with rondo and pierce, and yes rondo and pierce play close to the basket, not just garnett...

the knicks seem to iso way too much and they take too many shots away from the basket.... now not turning the ball over, and playing defense is fine, but we are talking about trying to beat the elite teams.. remember our goal... we are just not trying to be good, we are trying to win a ring now with such a short window... we can't be a team that chucks that many threes, and don't rebound....

tkf wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is where Amare fits in

Habits will have set in by then. Shooting deep perimeter shots as a first option is a habit not an adaptive style of play nor one that leans to mixing styles. It's not like we were ever fine tuned with Amar'e. Amar'e will have his knee on his mind when he plays too.

Shooting deep perimeter shots is not the first option. the shots are coming from plays, deep penetration, drives and kicks and more. This team rarely looks out of control and most of the time are taking shots they wanted to take. It's not a chuck fest out there. I've already seen plenty of times already this season if we get cold from outside Melo & Felton makes a effort to drive and get to the foul line. We have a coach that makes common sense adjustments.

The team is running this style to shoot the 3ball, ISO Melo, or throw lobs..... not layups, midrange shots, shots off screens, backdoors, pts in the paint, from the post, from the elbow....etc etc. Our players stay perimeter the majority of the game. It is a chuckfest it just doesn't look like it because we're making the shots wait till they stop falling. It's the very reason we have big leads yet teams are never truly out of the game.

we are next to last in points in the paint.... we are not driving and kicking, heck, we are not driving much at all...not sure what people are looking at...

And exactly why is that such a big deal for you to keep pointing out? Especially since Amare, who will provide more inside scoring is injured?

But since you think this is the ONLY way of winning and teams that score inside typically do better, let's throw out a few facts.

1. Let's take the Detroit Pistons for example, just because that's where I'm from and went to every game from 2003 - 2006. Detroit won the NBA championship in 2004 - ranked 24 in points in the paint. 2005 went to the finals again - RANKED DEAD LAST in points in the paint. Made it to the conference finals in 06, 07, and 08 -- again ranked last in points in the paint.

2. Dallas Mavs - Guess what ... ranked 26th in their championship year.

3. The other recent championships that went to the lakers, Heat(2006), spurs and celtics is because those teams had 3 people - Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

4. Not to say that scoring points in the paint is not the way to go, but history proves that so many other teams have done it the opposite way and sustained for YEARS.

5. Also here is the bad with your argument, Denver and houston are leading this year with points in the paint, but are only at .500. The kings are third and have a record of 4-12. Last year the top 3 teams were Denver, Utah (both lost in the 1st rd and matter of fact Utah was swept) and The kings, who didn't make it to the playoffs.

6. The knicks are doing other things to makeup for the deficit. How about mentioning that in turnovers we are in 1st place? That we are 2nd in 1st qt margin and 7th in the 2nd qt, which means we are taking care of business early. What about us being 9th among the defense this year? Or does defense do not count? Because we are 4th in steals.

well first of all I didn't say this is the only way.. can you point out where I said that? if not then don't quote things I never said..

next:

did all of those teams take as many threes as we did? seems like those teams are the exception not the rule? and yea, the lakers, heat, spurs and celts have won most of the titles and they score a lot in the paint.. but guess what, the spurs won scoring points in the paint, not just because or duncan..but also tony parker.... heat, with wade, celts with rondo and pierce, and yes rondo and pierce play close to the basket, not just garnett...

the knicks seem to iso way too much and they take too many shots away from the basket.... now not turning the ball over, and playing defense is fine, but we are talking about trying to beat the elite teams.. remember our goal... we are just not trying to be good, we are trying to win a ring now with such a short window... we can't be a team that chucks that many threes, and don't rebound....

Well every team is not built the same. It depends on your personnel, there is no 1 blueprint for winning a championship or going deep into the playoffs. With our group of guys, we have lethal 3 point shooters who are getting open shots. Will our pct. go down, maybe, but if Novak, Smith, Melo, Kidd and Brewer(from the corner) are open, I want them taking that shot 8/10 times. Period.

Detroit didn't have many three point shooters, so of course they wouldn't rank high in this category. But let's take an elite team that you referenced. The Spurs have ranked among the top 10 in this category since 2004, with the exception of one year. Why? because they are adding more shooters to surround Duncan and Parker. No coincidence that Miami is averaging 26pts per game this year, compared to our 35 pts, because they have added Lewis and Ray Allen.

Another factor which I stated is that we are winning the 1st and 2nd qts by a good margin, which allows Smith and Novak ... even Sheed to come into the game and feel free to shoot those three's.

Also, we are winning games on an average of 8+ points a game, minus the blowout in Houston and a couple of close games, you can take away the 10 points more we are averaging in 3s so we are even with Miami, and we still are in good shape to win most games.

Lastly, I wouldn't say Detroit is an exception when they were in the conference finals and finals 5 years in a row. That's enough data to say there are multiple routes of winning in this league. 1. Defense 2. Less turnovers 3. high quality shots ... are all a recipe for success.

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is where Amare fits in

Habits will have set in by then. Shooting deep perimeter shots as a first option is a habit not an adaptive style of play nor one that leans to mixing styles. It's not like we were ever fine tuned with Amar'e. Amar'e will have his knee on his mind when he plays too.

Shooting deep perimeter shots is not the first option. the shots are coming from plays, deep penetration, drives and kicks and more. This team rarely looks out of control and most of the time are taking shots they wanted to take. It's not a chuck fest out there. I've already seen plenty of times already this season if we get cold from outside Melo & Felton makes a effort to drive and get to the foul line. We have a coach that makes common sense adjustments.

The team is running this style to shoot the 3ball, ISO Melo, or throw lobs..... not layups, midrange shots, shots off screens, backdoors, pts in the paint, from the post, from the elbow....etc etc. Our players stay perimeter the majority of the game. It is a chuckfest it just doesn't look like it because we're making the shots wait till they stop falling. It's the very reason we have big leads yet teams are never truly out of the game.

we are next to last in points in the paint.... we are not driving and kicking, heck, we are not driving much at all...not sure what people are looking at...

And exactly why is that such a big deal for you to keep pointing out? Especially since Amare, who will provide more inside scoring is injured?

But since you think this is the ONLY way of winning and teams that score inside typically do better, let's throw out a few facts.

1. Let's take the Detroit Pistons for example, just because that's where I'm from and went to every game from 2003 - 2006. Detroit won the NBA championship in 2004 - ranked 24 in points in the paint. 2005 went to the finals again - RANKED DEAD LAST in points in the paint. Made it to the conference finals in 06, 07, and 08 -- again ranked last in points in the paint.

2. Dallas Mavs - Guess what ... ranked 26th in their championship year.

3. The other recent championships that went to the lakers, Heat(2006), spurs and celtics is because those teams had 3 people - Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

4. Not to say that scoring points in the paint is not the way to go, but history proves that so many other teams have done it the opposite way and sustained for YEARS.

5. Also here is the bad with your argument, Denver and houston are leading this year with points in the paint, but are only at .500. The kings are third and have a record of 4-12. Last year the top 3 teams were Denver, Utah (both lost in the 1st rd and matter of fact Utah was swept) and The kings, who didn't make it to the playoffs.

6. The knicks are doing other things to makeup for the deficit. How about mentioning that in turnovers we are in 1st place? That we are 2nd in 1st qt margin and 7th in the 2nd qt, which means we are taking care of business early. What about us being 9th among the defense this year? Or does defense do not count? Because we are 4th in steals.

well first of all I didn't say this is the only way.. can you point out where I said that? if not then don't quote things I never said..

next:

did all of those teams take as many threes as we did? seems like those teams are the exception not the rule? and yea, the lakers, heat, spurs and celts have won most of the titles and they score a lot in the paint.. but guess what, the spurs won scoring points in the paint, not just because or duncan..but also tony parker.... heat, with wade, celts with rondo and pierce, and yes rondo and pierce play close to the basket, not just garnett...

the knicks seem to iso way too much and they take too many shots away from the basket.... now not turning the ball over, and playing defense is fine, but we are talking about trying to beat the elite teams.. remember our goal... we are just not trying to be good, we are trying to win a ring now with such a short window... we can't be a team that chucks that many threes, and don't rebound....

you're wrong-- all you need is a 12-4 record and it basically means coasting into the finals.

Who cares about a 12-4 record, I don't. Is it good? Of course, we're winning, but still have a lot of work to be done. All I'm saying is that there are different ways of winning and we can't be stuck on 1 particular area especially when our 100 million dollar PF is injured or our young slashing SG is recovering from a torn acl. But I laid out facts ... can't argue with that.

Novak is regaining his touch from last season. JR is taking better shots. Jason Kidd has always beed good from distance. Carmelo is smiling. Ray Felton is not scared to take the big shot. Ronnie Brewer loves hanging on the corner. Sheed, our most dismal shooter is still at an acceptable average, anything over 33 per cent.

Help me out here. Which player starts the inevitable slide to Bolivian?

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is where Amare fits in

Habits will have set in by then. Shooting deep perimeter shots as a first option is a habit not an adaptive style of play nor one that leans to mixing styles. It's not like we were ever fine tuned with Amar'e. Amar'e will have his knee on his mind when he plays too.

Shooting deep perimeter shots is not the first option. the shots are coming from plays, deep penetration, drives and kicks and more. This team rarely looks out of control and most of the time are taking shots they wanted to take. It's not a chuck fest out there. I've already seen plenty of times already this season if we get cold from outside Melo & Felton makes a effort to drive and get to the foul line. We have a coach that makes common sense adjustments.

The team is running this style to shoot the 3ball, ISO Melo, or throw lobs..... not layups, midrange shots, shots off screens, backdoors, pts in the paint, from the post, from the elbow....etc etc. Our players stay perimeter the majority of the game. It is a chuckfest it just doesn't look like it because we're making the shots wait till they stop falling. It's the very reason we have big leads yet teams are never truly out of the game.

we are next to last in points in the paint.... we are not driving and kicking, heck, we are not driving much at all...not sure what people are looking at...

And exactly why is that such a big deal for you to keep pointing out? Especially since Amare, who will provide more inside scoring is injured?

But since you think this is the ONLY way of winning and teams that score inside typically do better, let's throw out a few facts.

1. Let's take the Detroit Pistons for example, just because that's where I'm from and went to every game from 2003 - 2006. Detroit won the NBA championship in 2004 - ranked 24 in points in the paint. 2005 went to the finals again - RANKED DEAD LAST in points in the paint. Made it to the conference finals in 06, 07, and 08 -- again ranked last in points in the paint.

2. Dallas Mavs - Guess what ... ranked 26th in their championship year.

3. The other recent championships that went to the lakers, Heat(2006), spurs and celtics is because those teams had 3 people - Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

4. Not to say that scoring points in the paint is not the way to go, but history proves that so many other teams have done it the opposite way and sustained for YEARS.

5. Also here is the bad with your argument, Denver and houston are leading this year with points in the paint, but are only at .500. The kings are third and have a record of 4-12. Last year the top 3 teams were Denver, Utah (both lost in the 1st rd and matter of fact Utah was swept) and The kings, who didn't make it to the playoffs.

6. The knicks are doing other things to makeup for the deficit. How about mentioning that in turnovers we are in 1st place? That we are 2nd in 1st qt margin and 7th in the 2nd qt, which means we are taking care of business early. What about us being 9th among the defense this year? Or does defense do not count? Because we are 4th in steals.

well first of all I didn't say this is the only way.. can you point out where I said that? if not then don't quote things I never said..

next:

did all of those teams take as many threes as we did? seems like those teams are the exception not the rule? and yea, the lakers, heat, spurs and celts have won most of the titles and they score a lot in the paint.. but guess what, the spurs won scoring points in the paint, not just because or duncan..but also tony parker.... heat, with wade, celts with rondo and pierce, and yes rondo and pierce play close to the basket, not just garnett...

the knicks seem to iso way too much and they take too many shots away from the basket.... now not turning the ball over, and playing defense is fine, but we are talking about trying to beat the elite teams.. remember our goal... we are just not trying to be good, we are trying to win a ring now with such a short window... we can't be a team that chucks that many threes, and don't rebound....

Well every team is not built the same. It depends on your personnel, there is no 1 blueprint for winning a championship or going deep into the playoffs. With our group of guys, we have lethal 3 point shooters who are getting open shots. Will our pct. go down, maybe, but if Novak, Smith, Melo, Kidd and Brewer(from the corner) are open, I want them taking that shot 8/10 times. Period.

Detroit didn't have many three point shooters, so of course they wouldn't rank high in this category. But let's take an elite team that you referenced. The Spurs have ranked among the top 10 in this category since 2004, with the exception of one year. Why? because they are adding more shooters to surround Duncan and Parker. No coincidence that Miami is averaging 26pts per game this year, compared to our 35 pts, because they have added Lewis and Ray Allen.

Another factor which I stated is that we are winning the 1st and 2nd qts by a good margin, which allows Smith and Novak ... even Sheed to come into the game and feel free to shoot those three's.

Also, we are winning games on an average of 8+ points a game, minus the blowout in Houston and a couple of close games, you can take away the 10 points more we are averaging in 3s so we are even with Miami, and we still are in good shape to win most games.

Lastly, I wouldn't say Detroit is an exception when they were in the conference finals and finals 5 years in a row. That's enough data to say there are multiple routes of winning in this league. 1. Defense 2. Less turnovers 3. high quality shots ... are all a recipe for success.

well that is my point with detroit, they didn't score a lot of points in the paint, but they didn't take a ton of threes as you also pointed to their lack of shooting... so maybe not the exception, but certainly not comparable to the knicks situation, so using detroit really wasn't that good of an idea... right?

The problem I have is that the knicks are beating teams we should beat, but we have struggled to put away teams like orlando, heck even let the bucks and wizards hang around a bit.. but when we played teams that rebound, and put pressure on you taking the ball to the basket we struggled... we struggled vs the grizz, Houston, the mavs beat us at our own game basically and the nets out grinded us because we could not control the boards..

We are not the pistons of of 2004-2006, we are not the mavs, or the heat.... and none of those teams based their offense around 3 point shooting like we do....we really don't drive a lot, nor do we post up and get a lot of points in the paint.. that is a huge problem if you ask me, especially since we don't rebound well... those teams work inside out.... we work out side, and around the perimeter, maybe that will be good enough to beat the average teams in this league as we have done, but the better teams are going to eat that up in the playoffs...

we lost to the rockets, a team I like, but a team that is 8-8 because they just beat us at our own game, while pummeling us on the boards... when our outside shot isn't falling, what will be our fall back plan? not sure how many other teams you watch, but take a look at denver, even the warriors, watch how well they pass the ball, especially their bigs, they seem to get easy shot, after easy shot.. we just seem to work too hard to score... either way too many iso's or way too many passes to get a 30 foot three point shot.. yes they have been falling, but the key is, this is not sustainable, and what happens when they stop falling, because the law of averages tells us they will..

hopefully amare can help in this area, but my concern is that this team is establishing some bad habbits in this area, and i wonder how we will be able to adjust....

dk7th wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This is where Amare fits in

Habits will have set in by then. Shooting deep perimeter shots as a first option is a habit not an adaptive style of play nor one that leans to mixing styles. It's not like we were ever fine tuned with Amar'e. Amar'e will have his knee on his mind when he plays too.

Shooting deep perimeter shots is not the first option. the shots are coming from plays, deep penetration, drives and kicks and more. This team rarely looks out of control and most of the time are taking shots they wanted to take. It's not a chuck fest out there. I've already seen plenty of times already this season if we get cold from outside Melo & Felton makes a effort to drive and get to the foul line. We have a coach that makes common sense adjustments.

The team is running this style to shoot the 3ball, ISO Melo, or throw lobs..... not layups, midrange shots, shots off screens, backdoors, pts in the paint, from the post, from the elbow....etc etc. Our players stay perimeter the majority of the game. It is a chuckfest it just doesn't look like it because we're making the shots wait till they stop falling. It's the very reason we have big leads yet teams are never truly out of the game.

we are next to last in points in the paint.... we are not driving and kicking, heck, we are not driving much at all...not sure what people are looking at...

And exactly why is that such a big deal for you to keep pointing out? Especially since Amare, who will provide more inside scoring is injured?

But since you think this is the ONLY way of winning and teams that score inside typically do better, let's throw out a few facts.

1. Let's take the Detroit Pistons for example, just because that's where I'm from and went to every game from 2003 - 2006. Detroit won the NBA championship in 2004 - ranked 24 in points in the paint. 2005 went to the finals again - RANKED DEAD LAST in points in the paint. Made it to the conference finals in 06, 07, and 08 -- again ranked last in points in the paint.

2. Dallas Mavs - Guess what ... ranked 26th in their championship year.

3. The other recent championships that went to the lakers, Heat(2006), spurs and celtics is because those teams had 3 people - Shaq, Duncan and Garnett.

4. Not to say that scoring points in the paint is not the way to go, but history proves that so many other teams have done it the opposite way and sustained for YEARS.

5. Also here is the bad with your argument, Denver and houston are leading this year with points in the paint, but are only at .500. The kings are third and have a record of 4-12. Last year the top 3 teams were Denver, Utah (both lost in the 1st rd and matter of fact Utah was swept) and The kings, who didn't make it to the playoffs.

6. The knicks are doing other things to makeup for the deficit. How about mentioning that in turnovers we are in 1st place? That we are 2nd in 1st qt margin and 7th in the 2nd qt, which means we are taking care of business early. What about us being 9th among the defense this year? Or does defense do not count? Because we are 4th in steals.

well first of all I didn't say this is the only way.. can you point out where I said that? if not then don't quote things I never said..

next:

did all of those teams take as many threes as we did? seems like those teams are the exception not the rule? and yea, the lakers, heat, spurs and celts have won most of the titles and they score a lot in the paint.. but guess what, the spurs won scoring points in the paint, not just because or duncan..but also tony parker.... heat, with wade, celts with rondo and pierce, and yes rondo and pierce play close to the basket, not just garnett...

the knicks seem to iso way too much and they take too many shots away from the basket.... now not turning the ball over, and playing defense is fine, but we are talking about trying to beat the elite teams.. remember our goal... we are just not trying to be good, we are trying to win a ring now with such a short window... we can't be a team that chucks that many threes, and don't rebound....

you're wrong-- all you need is a 12-4 record and it basically means coasting into the finals.

Who cares about a 12-4 record, I don't. Is it good? Of course, we're winning, but still have a lot of work to be done. All I'm saying is that there are different ways of winning and we can't be stuck on 1 particular area especially when our 100 million dollar PF is injured or our young slashing SG is recovering from a torn acl. But I laid out facts ... can't argue with that.

the one thing that links detroit and the mavs, actually, is superior point guard play characterized by penetrating and facilitating. (the three ball is actually not even necessary to discuss here.)

billups was playing elite basketball those two years, kidd + barea were a very effective duo with a good synthesis of facilitating and penetrating. rondo is great at penetrating and facilitating. parker is also great at penetrating. all are superior to felton in both facilitating and penetrating. felton is never going to find the balance necessary to lead this team to a title and we already see how very important kidd has been by his absence just in facilitating alone.

don't know how bringing up denver or houston or sacramento matters here. they are not in the knicks situation of needing to win it all in the next couple of years. apples to apples please.

Denver, Houston and Sacromento were brought up because they lead the league in points in the paint, which we were discussing, right? If we are saying this is a recipe for winning, then those teams should be doing better or have done better in the past. But we agree on the point guard situation, Felton has been good this year minus a few games, but in order for us to go deep in the playoffs, he has to drive more and move the ball better.

But in the end all those teams win with defense.