Bottom line (for me)
Knicks were young
Knicks were winning against the NBA elite teams
Knicks were heading to the playoffs
Knicks had a legit MVP candidate
Knicks finally built a roster to fit a coach (first time since MDA was there)
Knicks had prospects and draft picks and huge cap space to improve an already young and upcoming team

What was the reasoning behind dumping all these young players, prospects, picks and cap space to build around a guy who had won nothing, and was poor playoff performer year after year?

It was that simple. Not Melo hate as some love to assume. Knicks were building something good, results were proof in the pudding (good record + lots of wins against NBA elite). We had a real GM with a plan an it seemed like a dream.

In comes Melo. Out of shape, refuses to play in the coaches system and the Knicks are no better with him.

Finally the whole investment hinges on something that NEVER EVER happens for the Knicks (its rare enough in the NBA). That being a veteran player of 8+ years becoming something he hasnt been for the sake of winning. As I see it MElo is boxed in here. He's made his bed and he has not choice but to deliver. He's surrounded by old players who have won more than he has who will keep him accountable. He's got a coach who will do the same (already said he was out of shape last year). As I always try to do I will call it like I see it.. Melo has stepped up and delivered this year. He's defended. TFK is right about some things... some of those post ups could be defended by the donkeys at my local YMCA. At least 1 in 4 shots he takes is nothing more than "I have the ball, Im jacking it up" regardless of game situation or where he is on the court. There are a lot of holes in his game but he's working hard and the Knicks are winning so I will leave it at that, guys cant be perfect and all my favorite Knicks of the past have had holes in their game. Ewing couldnt dribble or pass. Spree shot us out of many games and was always good for missing those adreniline 3s he would take in transition... etc etc

Im happy the Knicks are winning. Coaching has been great. Everyone defends and its nice to have Felton back (prob my fav player in that trade). Funny... it wasnt Mosgov or Gallo for me that killed that trade, it was Felton. 26 YO PG just coming into his own and we get Billups back with no legs. Had we kept Felton in that deal I would have been warmer for sure, but losing all the picks, prospect and our 26 year PG having a career season was too much.

fishmike wrote:I hated the trade. HATED it. The only way imo to justify it is if we win a title. I have been outspoken about my reasons for a long time. Its as simple as this (and this is the last time I will discuss it here)
2 years ago the Knicks were off to a bad start w/ Amare, Felton, etc.. they quickly straightened things out.
Here were the facts:
After slow start Knicks went 21-9 over a 30 game stretch
Knicks were 3rd or 4th (honestly forget) youngest team in the league
Knicks had wins over NBA elite teams Dallas, Chi, OK, Spurs and MElo's Nuggets
Knicks roster as contructed at $16mm in cap space to spend on a free agent, while only losing Wilson Chandler (we still could have signed Tyson)

Bottom line (for me)
Knicks were young
Knicks were winning against the NBA elite teams
Knicks were heading to the playoffs
Knicks had a legit MVP candidate
Knicks finally built a roster to fit a coach (first time since MDA was there)
Knicks had prospects and draft picks and huge cap space to improve an already young and upcoming team

What was the reasoning behind dumping all these young players, prospects, picks and cap space to build around a guy who had won nothing, and was poor playoff performer year after year?

It was that simple. Not Melo hate as some love to assume. Knicks were building something good, results were proof in the pudding (good record + lots of wins against NBA elite). We had a real GM with a plan an it seemed like a dream.

In comes Melo. Out of shape, refuses to play in the coaches system and the Knicks are no better with him.

Finally the whole investment hinges on something that NEVER EVER happens for the Knicks (its rare enough in the NBA). That being a veteran player of 8+ years becoming something he hasnt been for the sake of winning. As I see it MElo is boxed in here. He's made his bed and he has not choice but to deliver. He's surrounded by old players who have won more than he has who will keep him accountable. He's got a coach who will do the same (already said he was out of shape last year). As I always try to do I will call it like I see it.. Melo has stepped up and delivered this year. He's defended. TFK is right about some things... some of those post ups could be defended by the donkeys at my local YMCA. At least 1 in 4 shots he takes is nothing more than "I have the ball, Im jacking it up" regardless of game situation or where he is on the court. There are a lot of holes in his game but he's working hard and the Knicks are winning so I will leave it at that, guys cant be perfect and all my favorite Knicks of the past have had holes in their game. Ewing couldnt dribble or pass. Spree shot us out of many games and was always good for missing those adreniline 3s he would take in transition... etc etc

Im happy the Knicks are winning. Coaching has been great. Everyone defends and its nice to have Felton back (prob my fav player in that trade). Funny... it wasnt Mosgov or Gallo for me that killed that trade, it was Felton. 26 YO PG just coming into his own and we get Billups back with no legs. Had we kept Felton in that deal I would have been warmer for sure, but losing all the picks, prospect and our 26 year PG having a career season was too much.

the bold sums it up for me fish.....

NYKMentality wrote:Regarldess of what these critics may or may not state in regards to the Melo trade, we replaced a soft and/or overrated European player in Gallo with a great all-around player in Melo. One of America's greatest talent's is who Melo truly is.

Is Melo John Stockton with assists? No. Is Melo Ben Wallace in regards to blocking shots? No. Is Melo Dennis Rodman on the boards? No. Is Melo Iverson with his dribble? No. Is Melo Bruce Bowen on defense? No. What Melo is, is a natural SF in which also has the ability to play out of position (PF) while playing bully-ball on the blocks. He's a scoring phenom. One of the greatest scorers this franchise has ever seen. Has ice water running through his veins during clutch moments/pressure situations. Can score at will, and can simply dominate opposing defenders and/or defesnes when running a half court offense.

Replaced Gallo with Carmelo Anthony.
Replaced Mozgov with Tyson Chandler.
Replaced Wilson Chandler with J.R Smith.
Replaced Eddy Curry with Marcus Camby.
Replaced Anthony Randolph with the likes of Kurt Thomas/Rahseed Wallace.
Raymond Felton has returned to the Knicks as our starting PG.

Have since added talents such as Kidd, Shumpert, Novak, Brewer and Pablo Prigioni.

But yet, we actually had fans (such as TKF and others) crying over the trade for Melo. Acting as if we sold our franchise for Melo. Acting as if our future was bleak without understanding we were on the verge of creating and/or building a true Eastern Conference Power-House surrounding Melo. Not even two full years after the trade for Melo; we're now a 7-1 team and respected around the league as true Eastern Conference contenders. Forget about the hypothetical situations and/or scenarios; if only Ewing had a second superstar to match Jordan and Pippen and/or if only we never traded an all time great PG in Mark Jackson.

I'm speaking reality as of right now. Replacing Gallo with Melo, Mozgov with Chandler, Wilson with J.R, Curry with Camby, AR with Thomas/Rasheed, Felton returning, adding Kidd, Shump, Novak, Brewer and Pablo... Not even two years later, and this is our reality after the trade for Melo. This is who we've built AROUND Carmelo Anthony. Which is a true Eastern Conference contender.

Fans such as TKF were (and are still) crying that we replaced Gallo with a scoring phenom. An actual NBA star. Crying that we gave up a Rookie project from Russia in Mozgov. As if we weren't on the verge of replacing Mozgov with a true defensive anchor in Tyson Chandler not even a year later. Crying how we traded away our "future" in Wilson Chandler without understanding that our front office would land us J.R Smith moving forward. Crying over the loss of Felton at the PG position in which he has now returned to New York. It takes patience, which some of those "win now" types of fans had no clue in regards to. We had to rebuild our franhcise, and we've done so under Carmelo Anthony.

dude you are obsessed with me.. it is getting a bit creepy... I have never seen anyone mention a posters name so much... honestly dude.. it is downright scary..

Good riddence.

holfresh wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Funny how "the only way it is justified is if we win a title" but God knows we weren't winning a title with Gallo, Moz and the crew. All logic goes out the window when it comes to talking about the trade I guess. *shrug*

Just watching them run up and down the court brings the same joy like winning a title...

Once again no one was opposed to moving ancillary pieces such as Gallo and Co as long as it kept us competitive and kept our options open. When you give up that much for essentially 1 player, then the expectations rises.

Trust if our young talent didn't continue their progression when here yep they'd be receiving the same type of criticism.

3G4G wrote:Once again no one was opposed to moving ancillary pieces such as Gallo and Co as long as it kept us competitive and kept our options open. When you give up that much for essentially 1 player, then the expectations rises.

Trust if our young talent didn't continue their progression when here yep they'd be receiving the same type of criticism.

I dont know about that one. Especially since a lot of them arent doing so well on their respective teams and a lot of fans are still clamoring for their return.

We exchanged Gallo for one of America's greatst athletes in Melo. Key word being 'exchanged'. Actually, better yet, we've gained in Melo. Felton has returned to New York more hungry than ever. We included Anthony Randolph ala a career nothing who's only averging 2 points and 2 boards here in 2012. We included a rookie Russian project in Mozgov who's only averging 2.7 points, 2.7 boards and 0.7 blocks per game. Looking like a career backup. Mozgov is only Denver's 3rd string center averaging only 11.7 minutes per game (because he pretty much sucks). We also dumped Eddy Curry's expiring contract as well.

So once again, what the fk did we "lose" during this trade? An overrated 6th man of the year in Wilson Chandler who's looking more and more like a product of Mike D'Antoni's offensive system? Well, say hello to J.R Smith.

We lost some cap space. Big deal. Which Championship contending team doesn't fill up their cap space? We've since managed to add Carmelo Anthony, Jason Kidd, Pablo, Raymond Felton (has returned), Iman Shumpert, J.R Smith, Ronnie Brewer, Steve Novak, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler. Yea, right, that's some "waste of a cap space during the Melo trade".

What else did we "lose"? A couple of rookie draft picks? Say hello to veteran additions such as Kidd, Felton, J.R Smith, Pablo, Brewer, Rasheed, Kurt, Camby and Chandler.

So once again, someone please EXPLAIN to me what the hell we so called "lost".

fishmike wrote:
Bottom line (for me)
Knicks were young
Knicks were winning against the NBA elite teams
Knicks were heading to the playoffs
Knicks had a legit MVP candidate
Knicks finally built a roster to fit a coach (first time since MDA was there)
Knicks had prospects and draft picks and huge cap space to improve an already young and upcoming team

Most of us watched and rooted for that team. It was a fun time, coming off years of futility under Isiah and then 2 more brutal years of stripping down and rebuilding. However, I believe you are creating an overly rosy history of the team and its prospects at that time.

Yes the Knicks were young, but they also were very inconsistent, could not rebound nor play defense. Knicks won a few games against superior opponents, but I would hardly coin that as consistently winning against elite teams. The coach overused his MVP candidate, a guy with bad knees, in order to keep the team in games. This showed as Amare began to break down after 2/3 of the season and has not been the same since. The Knicks had some cap space, but if they chose to keep Gallo, that would have eaten a large chunk of it in the coming years. The team was fun to watch on offense, but once The big three signed in Miami, most gave up hope of winning any kind of ship in the next 5 years given the Knicks roster.

We could have opted of the slow and steady rebuild and most likely would have made the playoffs as a low seed, consistent with last year's Melo led team. However, with the current re-tool...we actually may have a shot at the Heat, something that was not apparent three years ago, given that roster.