SupremeCommander wrote:my theory is the Olympics has brought the best out of him. While I was unemployed this summer, I watched most of the tournament and there were games he was legitimately the best player on the court. That's insane to think about when you consider the talent on that team. Anyway, he wasn't always the best player on the team and some games other guys were. And he trusted them. But then there games like the one where he set the Team USA single game scoring record. It was surreal and all those world class players gave Melo his props. Hell, the whole crowd gave him an ovation in London. It was awesome

He was the best player in 2008 Olympics or close to it. Kobe even commented on it. I think we are blowing the Olympic experience way out of proportion. Melo last year after D'Antoni quit started giving effort and it showed more back half of the season prior to the Olympics.

Melo has been in this place before when the Nuggets first acquired Billups in place of A.I. 2008-2009 season. I think what's to our possible benefit he has no other outs and he has quality veterans who's been there done that on this team. They'll detect his B.S. A.S.A.P. He basically has no other option but to deliver and play the right way. Let's hope what he does this year positively is sustainable

fishmike wrote:bottom line is he's lazy if given the chance. Hey, I can identify with that. If he's surrounded by strong personalities who demand accountability like Billups or now Kidd he does well. He also shows that as time goes on he slides back into his bad habits of pounding the rock and chucking tons of ****ty shots up.

Pretty clear you want to win with Melo you must surround him with people who hold him accountable. A lot of them.

In all fairness, the guy was getting in shape over the summer to put out more effort regardless of who is on the team....Why are people so willing to give others credit for what that individual does...Melo spoke about playing this way all summer...Now he is showing it...

The highs are high and the low's are low.

Enjoyable two games and happy the team is doing well.

Hope the faithful don't get too despondant at the first loss to a lessor team!

Until then, enjoy the games!

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:same MElo. He always has great stretches, and decides from time to time to defend and play really hard. After a nice start to the Heat game he did everything he could to shoot us out of a good win. He's taking 6 threes a game. He gets it going with hard work (inside scoring, crashing the boards) then follows those GREAT possesions with lazy shots, usually long contested jumpers with zero chances of an offensive rebound.

People act like the guy is a crappy player. He's never not been good. The question is is he goood enough?

Is this Knick style of play sustainable? So far we look good playing D and sharing the ball, but the 3 point shooting % isnt sustainable. Happy we are winning. Have a ways to go. MElo is MElo. More of the same.

Lets build a style of play that can work in the playoffs. Defense and ball movement look good. Hoping to shoot 45% from downtown? Thats got first round exit written all over it again...

This is why I didn't want to build around him and I don't know if he's just having a good stretch or is a new player. By and large in the end of last season and over the summer Olympics, he was taking better shots. He had terrible shot selection in the first game. I'm hoping that will be just a rare occurrence for him now.
I don't think it's the same Melo though. I can't remember him ever have a long streak (20+ games) of 30+ points on 50+ FG%. With a larger sample, he may revert back to the same Melo, though.

He had to have as he has averaged 49% 48% and 47% from the field during his career. When he had Klieza and Eduardo as hybrid 3/4s who can stretch the field he FG% was up. When he lost them his % went down. He takes better shots because he has more space to operate and play his game dating back to last season. He has one of the most complete offensive arenals in basketball if given the room to operate. There has to be a way to successfully build around that.

Game 1 vs Miami: 30 pts on 28 shots not the greatest but we WON and if we do that 4 times in the playoffs i don't care if he takes 50 shots to score 30.
Game 2: 27 points on 18 shots. Much better.

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:same MElo. He always has great stretches, and decides from time to time to defend and play really hard. After a nice start to the Heat game he did everything he could to shoot us out of a good win. He's taking 6 threes a game. He gets it going with hard work (inside scoring, crashing the boards) then follows those GREAT possesions with lazy shots, usually long contested jumpers with zero chances of an offensive rebound.

People act like the guy is a crappy player. He's never not been good. The question is is he goood enough?

Is this Knick style of play sustainable? So far we look good playing D and sharing the ball, but the 3 point shooting % isnt sustainable. Happy we are winning. Have a ways to go. MElo is MElo. More of the same.

Lets build a style of play that can work in the playoffs. Defense and ball movement look good. Hoping to shoot 45% from downtown? Thats got first round exit written all over it again...

This is why I didn't want to build around him and I don't know if he's just having a good stretch or is a new player. By and large in the end of last season and over the summer Olympics, he was taking better shots. He had terrible shot selection in the first game. I'm hoping that will be just a rare occurrence for him now.
I don't think it's the same Melo though. I can't remember him ever have a long streak (20+ games) of 30+ points on 50+ FG%. With a larger sample, he may revert back to the same Melo, though.

He had to have as he has averaged 49% 48% and 47% from the field during his career. When he had Klieza and Eduardo as hybrid 3/4s who can stretch the field he FG% was up. When he lost them his % went down. He takes better shots because he has more space to operate and play his game dating back to last season. He has one of the most complete offensive arenals in basketball if given the room to operate. There has to be a way to successfully build around that.

Part of why his percentages were higher then was that he rarely took 3s. Melo could be the kind of player to build around or at least build with. He just has to decide to take better shots. He seemed to lose his mind in the first game but hopefully he won't do that often. I don't think it has anything to do with teammates - he had the best 3 point shooter in the country and was at a .390 FG% for most of last season.

He started taking more 3s because he had less room to work with in the paint. He didn't have the best 3pt shooter in the country for most of the season as Novak didn't start playing until Linsanity. And I don't have a break down on what Melo's FG% is when Novak is on the court compared to Amare until basically Amare went down with injury.

The system that MDA played also forced Melo to have to stay on the perimeter more his seasons here as Melo needed to create space for Amare and then Amare and Tyson. Wasn't until Woody took over and Amare went down that Melo was able to play his game more.

If you force Melo to stay on the perimeter thats not his game and in turn he won't be as efficient and is a lot easier to guard. You give Melo room to open up his jumper by driving and posting up then he is unguardable.

hmmmmm, I mean, now how would I even RECOGNIZE "hate"?

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:bottom line is he's lazy if given the chance. Hey, I can identify with that. If he's surrounded by strong personalities who demand accountability like Billups or now Kidd he does well. He also shows that as time goes on he slides back into his bad habits of pounding the rock and chucking tons of ****ty shots up.

Pretty clear you want to win with Melo you must surround him with people who hold him accountable. A lot of them.

In all fairness, the guy was getting in shape over the summer to put out more effort regardless of who is on the team....Why are people so willing to give others credit for what that individual does...Melo spoke about playing this way all summer...Now he is showing it...

What you do think when Melo bangs and destroys in the post, then chucks up a couple contested 3s? Right out of the Antoine Walker school of shot selection.

I predicted 50 wins and expected this group to be very good. The question is do we have a style of play that will win in the postseason?

Nice to see the team playing well

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:bottom line is he's lazy if given the chance. Hey, I can identify with that. If he's surrounded by strong personalities who demand accountability like Billups or now Kidd he does well. He also shows that as time goes on he slides back into his bad habits of pounding the rock and chucking tons of ****ty shots up.

Pretty clear you want to win with Melo you must surround him with people who hold him accountable. A lot of them.

In all fairness, the guy was getting in shape over the summer to put out more effort regardless of who is on the team....Why are people so willing to give others credit for what that individual does...Melo spoke about playing this way all summer...Now he is showing it...

because thats been the pattern his whole pro career. I guess 3 games and some internet chatter dispells that?

What you do think when Melo bangs and destroys in the post, then chucks up a couple contested 3s? Right out of the Antoine Walker school of shot selection.

I predicted 50 wins and expected this group to be very good. The question is do we have a style of play that will win in the postseason?

Nice to see the team playing well

yea, I predicted around 45, but really no one was saying the knicks would be bad, the key is, our window is extremely small.. like one year small... so the question is, are we a championship squad.. still early, but I have to favor miami and Boston still at this point... I know everyone is in this state of euphoria, but keeping a little perspective here, it is very early.. the mavs are 3-1 without dirk, the bucks are undefeated as well i think.... and I sure don't expect the lakers and thunder to continue to be under .500

Again, glad that the knicks started off very well, but I am going to sit back and wait a bit here..