3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo in his prime and came to NYC to play with Amare. Instead he gets to play with an constantly injured former allstar.

Same thing happened to McGrady with Grant Hill.

Same complaints about both guys not getting their team deep in the playoffs.

Sad indeed.

He could have waited to sign in the summer and may have had a little more help. It's not like Amar'e didn't have history and he's played a lot of basketball considering his health issues. Dudes start breaking down at 30 look at Wade look at Kobe from their shoulders to their knees.

I don't feel sorry for Melo, I feel sorry for us having to suffer once again through this mess which much could have been avoided.

I keep reading people posting this and it just is not reality based. He wanted out of Denver, he wanted a new deal before the old cba ended and Denver wanted something for him. He wasn't staying and Denver wasn't keeping him to lose him for nothing.

Thank you, on top of that the team if Melo waited right now would lack Chandler/Shumpert/Smith because we'd be stuck with Gallinari on a big deal, lost Wilson Chandler for nothin

Our line-ups would be either

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Gallinari/Stoudemire

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Stoudemire/Mozgov

neither are better than potentially

Felton/Shumpert/Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler

with a bench of Jason Kidd/JR Smith/Steve Novak/Marcus Camby and filler guys like Pablo Prigioni/Ronnie Brewer/Kurt Thomas/Rasheed Wallace

lets this team get healthy, get some chemistry and games under their belt. I wont judge this team til the All-Star Break

This is exactly right. Why do people fail to realize what our team would look like had Melo not forced his way here via trade? Chandler is better than anyone we would have retained. Would you rather have an overpaid Gallo or get a real center in tyson chandler, who was our best player last year? And we got back Felton, who was probably the best overall player we traded for Melo. When we traded for Melo, we only really lost Gallo and W Chandler, and got the opportunity to get t chandler.

What about the 4 picks that we gave them + Mozgov? You know we could really use an athletic center right now.

I thought it was two picks, the Knicks 2014 first rounder and a second round pick. I am not sure I am right but I know it was only 1 first rounder because they had already moved most all of the first round picks they could to get under the cap.

I clearly outlined everything in detail several times what was given up. Not sure why you continue to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder this imperative information.

We gave up and/or let go

Gallo....(given up in the Melo deal)
Chandler....(given up in the Melo deal)
Moz....(given up in the Melo deal)
Felton....(given up in the Melo deal)
Curry....(expiring wasted in the Melo deal)
AR....(given up in the Melo deal)
2014....(given up in the Melo deal)
2016....(swap)(given up in the Melo deal)
2012 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
2013 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
Cash Considerations.....(given up in the Melo deal)
Waived Brewer.....(wasted in the Melo deal)
Jared Jeffries.....(S&T to get Felton)
Kostas.....(traded to get Felton)
Georgio.....(traded to get Felton)
future protected 2nd....(traded to get Felton)
Lin.....(wouldn't match signed Felton)
Tax Hit.....(Felton's additional salary)
Billups....(amnestied for Chandler)

We end up with Felton/Chandler/Melo

That's way too much for what we have now

And how many of those players (or picks) will ever be as successful as either Melo or Chandler. Probably zero.

And if you want to get into that much detail, players like JR Smith and Novak are on our roster as a result of the series of transactions so add them to the list, as well as Camby who we used assets attained to acquire.

Melo, T Chandler, Felton, Smith, Novak, Camby, etc >>>> Gallo, W Chandler, AR, Moz, Curry, Lin, etc.

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli don't have the same statistical resume as Melo but those are the kind of players you need to win Chips. Something they have that Melo hasn't come close to sniffing. Tony Parker is also a Finals MVP you know he won this over Duncan who will always have a better resume than he correct?

I knew you were going to mention Smith and Novak.... how shortsighted and fallible of you to do so.

Novak and Lin were initially acquired as a waived players(500k-$1mil) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire them had we not traded all those assets for Melo?

Smith was acquired at a prorated MLE deal(2.3mil or thereabouts) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire him had we not traded all those assets for Melo? Felton and Curry were expirings 2011 and 2012 as were a few other players.

Those salary slots were always available for such players, use your brain. As long as we had roster spots available Smith/Novak/Lin were always gettable...... goodness gracious where's your IQ almighty?

Smith and Novak were in no way, shape, or form part of the degrees of trades. I specifically mentioned the assets and players directly involved via trades/amnesty

As far as Camby is concerned we could have traded a player like Moz for him straight up, while retaining all our other assets. Not saying I would have done so

I mention Novak and Smith because we would'nt have signed them if we never made the trade. Not enough roster space to get these players. It is a series of events that created a situation where we would sign these players. Seriously look at the players you are mentioning above. Only Gallo and Felton are NBA starters. We have Felton back. Gallo and Chandler are making around the same money combined as Melo. Are they worth that? Of course not. Everyone else on this list? Come on. When will fans stop living in a fantasy land where late picks/cap space is worth more than proven all-star players? There is no proof we would be a playoff team right now without Melo. We would be a team desperate because our best player is injured and declining. The idea of continuously flexbility and rebuilding is so much greater than the reality. The reality is all of those pieces you indicated above cannot form a team greater than one built around Melo. People would rather have a lottery team built around Gallo with "hope" than a playoff team.

Sorry dude a team can have 12 active players and 3 on the IR. We could have also cut whomever we wanted to make room for them should it be tight. Lin/Novak/Smith would have been an option of ours. Talk yourself into thinking they weren't if you want.

The team went bargain bin shopping due to lack of depth. The lack of depth was a direct result of the trade. Had the trade never happened we would have overpaid other higher known role players. We would have never picked up Lin because we would have already had Felton, Douglas, Bibby etc. No need for Novak with Gallo, Chandler, AR, Fields, etc. Probably no need for JR Smith either. It's just speculation of course, but i'm just doing the simple roster math. The team went looking out of the box, they wouldn't have done that if the trade didn't occur. We would have missed the playoffs last season with Stoudemire's issues, Gallo's injuries, Felton being fat, etc. Plus after paying Gallo and W Chandler, we would have still been over the cap with no flexibility.

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo in his prime and came to NYC to play with Amare. Instead he gets to play with an constantly injured former allstar.

Same thing happened to McGrady with Grant Hill.

Same complaints about both guys not getting their team deep in the playoffs.

Sad indeed.

He could have waited to sign in the summer and may have had a little more help. It's not like Amar'e didn't have history and he's played a lot of basketball considering his health issues. Dudes start breaking down at 30 look at Wade look at Kobe from their shoulders to their knees.

I don't feel sorry for Melo, I feel sorry for us having to suffer once again through this mess which much could have been avoided.

I keep reading people posting this and it just is not reality based. He wanted out of Denver, he wanted a new deal before the old cba ended and Denver wanted something for him. He wasn't staying and Denver wasn't keeping him to lose him for nothing.

Thank you, on top of that the team if Melo waited right now would lack Chandler/Shumpert/Smith because we'd be stuck with Gallinari on a big deal, lost Wilson Chandler for nothin

Our line-ups would be either

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Gallinari/Stoudemire

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Stoudemire/Mozgov

neither are better than potentially

Felton/Shumpert/Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler

with a bench of Jason Kidd/JR Smith/Steve Novak/Marcus Camby and filler guys like Pablo Prigioni/Ronnie Brewer/Kurt Thomas/Rasheed Wallace

lets this team get healthy, get some chemistry and games under their belt. I wont judge this team til the All-Star Break

This is exactly right. Why do people fail to realize what our team would look like had Melo not forced his way here via trade? Chandler is better than anyone we would have retained. Would you rather have an overpaid Gallo or get a real center in tyson chandler, who was our best player last year? And we got back Felton, who was probably the best overall player we traded for Melo. When we traded for Melo, we only really lost Gallo and W Chandler, and got the opportunity to get t chandler.

What about the 4 picks that we gave them + Mozgov? You know we could really use an athletic center right now.

I thought it was two picks, the Knicks 2014 first rounder and a second round pick. I am not sure I am right but I know it was only 1 first rounder because they had already moved most all of the first round picks they could to get under the cap.

I clearly outlined everything in detail several times what was given up. Not sure why you continue to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder this imperative information.

We gave up and/or let go

Gallo....(given up in the Melo deal)
Chandler....(given up in the Melo deal)
Moz....(given up in the Melo deal)
Felton....(given up in the Melo deal)
Curry....(expiring wasted in the Melo deal)
AR....(given up in the Melo deal)
2014....(given up in the Melo deal)
2016....(swap)(given up in the Melo deal)
2012 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
2013 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
Cash Considerations.....(given up in the Melo deal)
Waived Brewer.....(wasted in the Melo deal)
Jared Jeffries.....(S&T to get Felton)
Kostas.....(traded to get Felton)
Georgio.....(traded to get Felton)
future protected 2nd....(traded to get Felton)
Lin.....(wouldn't match signed Felton)
Tax Hit.....(Felton's additional salary)
Billups....(amnestied for Chandler)

We end up with Felton/Chandler/Melo

That's way too much for what we have now

And how many of those players (or picks) will ever be as successful as either Melo or Chandler. Probably zero.

And if you want to get into that much detail, players like JR Smith and Novak are on our roster as a result of the series of transactions so add them to the list, as well as Camby who we used assets attained to acquire.

Melo, T Chandler, Felton, Smith, Novak, Camby, etc >>>> Gallo, W Chandler, AR, Moz, Curry, Lin, etc.

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli don't have the same statistical resume as Melo but those are the kind of players you need to win Chips. Something they have that Melo hasn't come close to sniffing. Tony Parker is also a Finals MVP you know he won this over Duncan who will always have a better resume than he correct?

I knew you were going to mention Smith and Novak.... how shortsighted and fallible of you to do so.

Novak and Lin were initially acquired as a waived players(500k-$1mil) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire them had we not traded all those assets for Melo?

Smith was acquired at a prorated MLE deal(2.3mil or thereabouts) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire him had we not traded all those assets for Melo? Felton and Curry were expirings 2011 and 2012 as were a few other players.

Those salary slots were always available for such players, use your brain. As long as we had roster spots available Smith/Novak/Lin were always gettable...... goodness gracious where's your IQ almighty?

Smith and Novak were in no way, shape, or form part of the degrees of trades. I specifically mentioned the assets and players directly involved via trades/amnesty

As far as Camby is concerned we could have traded a player like Moz for him straight up, while retaining all our other assets. Not saying I would have done so

I mention Novak and Smith because we would'nt have signed them if we never made the trade. Not enough roster space to get these players. It is a series of events that created a situation where we would sign these players. Seriously look at the players you are mentioning above. Only Gallo and Felton are NBA starters. We have Felton back. Gallo and Chandler are making around the same money combined as Melo. Are they worth that? Of course not. Everyone else on this list? Come on. When will fans stop living in a fantasy land where late picks/cap space is worth more than proven all-star players? There is no proof we would be a playoff team right now without Melo. We would be a team desperate because our best player is injured and declining. The idea of continuously flexbility and rebuilding is so much greater than the reality. The reality is all of those pieces you indicated above cannot form a team greater than one built around Melo. People would rather have a lottery team built around Gallo with "hope" than a playoff team.

Sorry dude a team can have 12 active players and 3 on the IR. We could have also cut whomever we wanted to make room for them should it be tight. Lin/Novak/Smith would have been an option of ours. Talk yourself into thinking they weren't if you want.

The team went bargain bin shopping due to lack of depth. The lack of depth was a direct result of the trade. Had the trade never happened we would have overpaid other higher known role players. We would have never picked up Lin because we would have already had Felton, Douglas, Bibby etc. No need for Novak with Gallo, Chandler, AR, Fields, etc. Probably no need for JR Smith either. It's just speculation of course, but i'm just doing the simple roster math. The team went looking out of the box, they wouldn't have done that if the trade didn't occur. We would have missed the playoffs last season with Stoudemire's issues, Gallo's injuries, Felton being fat, etc. Plus after paying Gallo and W Chandler, we would have still been over the cap with no flexibility.

We drafted Gallo when we had Lee/Jeffries/Randolph/Wilson Chandler all guys playing positions 3-4

We then followed that up with drafting Hill when we had Lee/Gallo/Chandler/Harrington all guys playing positions 3-4

We signed Jonathan Bender when we had Gallo/Chandler/Harrington/Jeffries

We signed Shawne Williams when we had Gallo/Chandler/Amar'e

We then followed that up with drafting Fields when we had Gallo/Chandler/Walker

We traded for Turiaf/Anthony Randolph when we had Amar'e/Gallo/Chandler

We signed Derrick Brown when had Shawne Williams/Amar'e/Shelden Williams/Jeffries

Did we not attempt to try and sign Ramon Sessions when we had Felton/Douglas on the roster already?

I don't want to hear anything about we wouldn't have picked them up trying to cite redundancy

The point I'm proving to you if we wanted to we could have.... You tried to imply those additions were exclusive to the trade for Melo, when they weren't.

You have no idea if we would have picked Lin up as you don't know what other moves could have been facilitated in the between time. Felton had a 2yr deal he was going to expire and Bibby had a 1yr deal. We had no long term solution at point guard.

And here's me nailing you in a Pine Box officially

We had at the time of 2011-2012 off-season Douglas and Bibby as point guards.....We claim a Broke Back Baron Davis off Amnesty it was known his back was broke but we still claimed him anyway. That's 2 examples of how much the organization thought of Douglas as a point guard see pursuing Sessions again. But wait we ended up claiming Lin too. That's 4 point guards 1 hurt. Now if we back up to 2010-2011 wasn't that the season of Douglas having a bad back and bum shoulder, I believe so. Douglas didn't have a good year the following season... last year. So the idea of adding another point guard in the mold of Lin would have been wise.

R.I.P.

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo in his prime and came to NYC to play with Amare. Instead he gets to play with an constantly injured former allstar.

Same thing happened to McGrady with Grant Hill.

Same complaints about both guys not getting their team deep in the playoffs.

Sad indeed.

He could have waited to sign in the summer and may have had a little more help. It's not like Amar'e didn't have history and he's played a lot of basketball considering his health issues. Dudes start breaking down at 30 look at Wade look at Kobe from their shoulders to their knees.

I don't feel sorry for Melo, I feel sorry for us having to suffer once again through this mess which much could have been avoided.

I keep reading people posting this and it just is not reality based. He wanted out of Denver, he wanted a new deal before the old cba ended and Denver wanted something for him. He wasn't staying and Denver wasn't keeping him to lose him for nothing.

Thank you, on top of that the team if Melo waited right now would lack Chandler/Shumpert/Smith because we'd be stuck with Gallinari on a big deal, lost Wilson Chandler for nothin

Our line-ups would be either

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Gallinari/Stoudemire

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Stoudemire/Mozgov

neither are better than potentially

Felton/Shumpert/Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler

with a bench of Jason Kidd/JR Smith/Steve Novak/Marcus Camby and filler guys like Pablo Prigioni/Ronnie Brewer/Kurt Thomas/Rasheed Wallace

lets this team get healthy, get some chemistry and games under their belt. I wont judge this team til the All-Star Break

This is exactly right. Why do people fail to realize what our team would look like had Melo not forced his way here via trade? Chandler is better than anyone we would have retained. Would you rather have an overpaid Gallo or get a real center in tyson chandler, who was our best player last year? And we got back Felton, who was probably the best overall player we traded for Melo. When we traded for Melo, we only really lost Gallo and W Chandler, and got the opportunity to get t chandler.

What about the 4 picks that we gave them + Mozgov? You know we could really use an athletic center right now.

I thought it was two picks, the Knicks 2014 first rounder and a second round pick. I am not sure I am right but I know it was only 1 first rounder because they had already moved most all of the first round picks they could to get under the cap.

I clearly outlined everything in detail several times what was given up. Not sure why you continue to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder this imperative information.

We gave up and/or let go

Gallo....(given up in the Melo deal)
Chandler....(given up in the Melo deal)
Moz....(given up in the Melo deal)
Felton....(given up in the Melo deal)
Curry....(expiring wasted in the Melo deal)
AR....(given up in the Melo deal)
2014....(given up in the Melo deal)
2016....(swap)(given up in the Melo deal)
2012 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
2013 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
Cash Considerations.....(given up in the Melo deal)
Waived Brewer.....(wasted in the Melo deal)
Jared Jeffries.....(S&T to get Felton)
Kostas.....(traded to get Felton)
Georgio.....(traded to get Felton)
future protected 2nd....(traded to get Felton)
Lin.....(wouldn't match signed Felton)
Tax Hit.....(Felton's additional salary)
Billups....(amnestied for Chandler)

We end up with Felton/Chandler/Melo

That's way too much for what we have now

And how many of those players (or picks) will ever be as successful as either Melo or Chandler. Probably zero.

And if you want to get into that much detail, players like JR Smith and Novak are on our roster as a result of the series of transactions so add them to the list, as well as Camby who we used assets attained to acquire.

Melo, T Chandler, Felton, Smith, Novak, Camby, etc >>>> Gallo, W Chandler, AR, Moz, Curry, Lin, etc.

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli don't have the same statistical resume as Melo but those are the kind of players you need to win Chips. Something they have that Melo hasn't come close to sniffing. Tony Parker is also a Finals MVP you know he won this over Duncan who will always have a better resume than he correct?

I knew you were going to mention Smith and Novak.... how shortsighted and fallible of you to do so.

Novak and Lin were initially acquired as a waived players(500k-$1mil) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire them had we not traded all those assets for Melo?

Smith was acquired at a prorated MLE deal(2.3mil or thereabouts) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire him had we not traded all those assets for Melo? Felton and Curry were expirings 2011 and 2012 as were a few other players.

Those salary slots were always available for such players, use your brain. As long as we had roster spots available Smith/Novak/Lin were always gettable...... goodness gracious where's your IQ almighty?

Smith and Novak were in no way, shape, or form part of the degrees of trades. I specifically mentioned the assets and players directly involved via trades/amnesty

As far as Camby is concerned we could have traded a player like Moz for him straight up, while retaining all our other assets. Not saying I would have done so

I mention Novak and Smith because we would'nt have signed them if we never made the trade. Not enough roster space to get these players. It is a series of events that created a situation where we would sign these players. Seriously look at the players you are mentioning above. Only Gallo and Felton are NBA starters. We have Felton back. Gallo and Chandler are making around the same money combined as Melo. Are they worth that? Of course not. Everyone else on this list? Come on. When will fans stop living in a fantasy land where late picks/cap space is worth more than proven all-star players? There is no proof we would be a playoff team right now without Melo. We would be a team desperate because our best player is injured and declining. The idea of continuously flexbility and rebuilding is so much greater than the reality. The reality is all of those pieces you indicated above cannot form a team greater than one built around Melo. People would rather have a lottery team built around Gallo with "hope" than a playoff team.

Sorry dude a team can have 12 active players and 3 on the IR. We could have also cut whomever we wanted to make room for them should it be tight. Lin/Novak/Smith would have been an option of ours. Talk yourself into thinking they weren't if you want.

The team went bargain bin shopping due to lack of depth. The lack of depth was a direct result of the trade. Had the trade never happened we would have overpaid other higher known role players. We would have never picked up Lin because we would have already had Felton, Douglas, Bibby etc. No need for Novak with Gallo, Chandler, AR, Fields, etc. Probably no need for JR Smith either. It's just speculation of course, but i'm just doing the simple roster math. The team went looking out of the box, they wouldn't have done that if the trade didn't occur. We would have missed the playoffs last season with Stoudemire's issues, Gallo's injuries, Felton being fat, etc. Plus after paying Gallo and W Chandler, we would have still been over the cap with no flexibility.

We drafted Gallo when we had Lee/Jeffries/Randolph/Wilson Chandler all guys playing positions 3-4

We then followed that up with drafting Hill when we had Lee/Gallo/Chandler/Harrington all guys playing positions 3-4

We signed Jonathan Bender when we had Gallo/Chandler/Harrington/Jeffries

We signed Shawne Williams when we had Gallo/Chandler/Amar'e

We then followed that up with drafting Fields when we had Gallo/Chandler/Walker

We traded for Turiaf/Anthony Randolph when we had Amar'e/Gallo/Chandler

We signed Derrick Brown when had Shawne Williams/Amar'e/Shelden Williams/Jeffries

Did we not attempt to try and sign Ramon Sessions when we had Felton/Douglas on the roster already?

I don't want to hear anything about we wouldn't have picked them up trying to cite redundancy

The point I'm proving to you if we wanted to we could have.... You tried to imply those additions were exclusive to the trade for Melo, when they weren't.

You have no idea if we would have picked Lin up as you don't know what other moves could have been facilitated in the between time. Felton had a 2yr deal he was going to expire and Bibby had a 1yr deal. We had no long term solution at point guard.

And here's me nailing you in a Pine Box officially

We had at the time of 2011-2012 off-season Douglas and Bibby as point guards.....We claim a Broke Back Baron Davis off Amnesty it was known his back was broke but we still claimed him anyway. That's 2 examples of how much the organization thought of Douglas as a point guard see pursuing Sessions again. But wait we ended up claiming Lin too. That's 4 point guards 1 hurt. Now if we back up to 2010-2011 wasn't that the season of Douglas having a bad back and bum shoulder, I believe so. Douglas didn't have a good year the following season... last year. So the idea of adding another point guard in the mold of Lin would have been wise.

R.I.P.

Hahaha. This does not prove anything. Douglas was always viewed as a backup PG. They added Davis to find a starter. Lin was only retained and played because we were that desperate. With Felton in the equation, none of that occurs. Felton starts, Douglas remains a backup and isn't exposed as a starter, and Bibby is probably added as he was the first. So much for your theory.

My point is none of this would have occured if the trade didn't happen. If you believe otherwise you are just wrong. Say what you want. We would have witnessed another disaster season and been tied to many bad contracts. Now we have a playoff team. Give me the playoff team any day of the week. Enjoy your constant rebuild, and constant "hope." Maybe someday they will get back to the playoffs with your approach. Maybe be a winning team.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo in his prime and came to NYC to play with Amare. Instead he gets to play with an constantly injured former allstar.

Same thing happened to McGrady with Grant Hill.

Same complaints about both guys not getting their team deep in the playoffs.

Sad indeed.

He could have waited to sign in the summer and may have had a little more help. It's not like Amar'e didn't have history and he's played a lot of basketball considering his health issues. Dudes start breaking down at 30 look at Wade look at Kobe from their shoulders to their knees.

I don't feel sorry for Melo, I feel sorry for us having to suffer once again through this mess which much could have been avoided.

I keep reading people posting this and it just is not reality based. He wanted out of Denver, he wanted a new deal before the old cba ended and Denver wanted something for him. He wasn't staying and Denver wasn't keeping him to lose him for nothing.

Thank you, on top of that the team if Melo waited right now would lack Chandler/Shumpert/Smith because we'd be stuck with Gallinari on a big deal, lost Wilson Chandler for nothin

Our line-ups would be either

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Gallinari/Stoudemire

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Stoudemire/Mozgov

neither are better than potentially

Felton/Shumpert/Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler

with a bench of Jason Kidd/JR Smith/Steve Novak/Marcus Camby and filler guys like Pablo Prigioni/Ronnie Brewer/Kurt Thomas/Rasheed Wallace

lets this team get healthy, get some chemistry and games under their belt. I wont judge this team til the All-Star Break

This is exactly right. Why do people fail to realize what our team would look like had Melo not forced his way here via trade? Chandler is better than anyone we would have retained. Would you rather have an overpaid Gallo or get a real center in tyson chandler, who was our best player last year? And we got back Felton, who was probably the best overall player we traded for Melo. When we traded for Melo, we only really lost Gallo and W Chandler, and got the opportunity to get t chandler.

What about the 4 picks that we gave them + Mozgov? You know we could really use an athletic center right now.

I thought it was two picks, the Knicks 2014 first rounder and a second round pick. I am not sure I am right but I know it was only 1 first rounder because they had already moved most all of the first round picks they could to get under the cap.

I clearly outlined everything in detail several times what was given up. Not sure why you continue to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder this imperative information.

We gave up and/or let go

Gallo....(given up in the Melo deal)
Chandler....(given up in the Melo deal)
Moz....(given up in the Melo deal)
Felton....(given up in the Melo deal)
Curry....(expiring wasted in the Melo deal)
AR....(given up in the Melo deal)
2014....(given up in the Melo deal)
2016....(swap)(given up in the Melo deal)
2012 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
2013 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
Cash Considerations.....(given up in the Melo deal)
Waived Brewer.....(wasted in the Melo deal)
Jared Jeffries.....(S&T to get Felton)
Kostas.....(traded to get Felton)
Georgio.....(traded to get Felton)
future protected 2nd....(traded to get Felton)
Lin.....(wouldn't match signed Felton)
Tax Hit.....(Felton's additional salary)
Billups....(amnestied for Chandler)

We end up with Felton/Chandler/Melo

That's way too much for what we have now

And how many of those players (or picks) will ever be as successful as either Melo or Chandler. Probably zero.

And if you want to get into that much detail, players like JR Smith and Novak are on our roster as a result of the series of transactions so add them to the list, as well as Camby who we used assets attained to acquire.

Melo, T Chandler, Felton, Smith, Novak, Camby, etc >>>> Gallo, W Chandler, AR, Moz, Curry, Lin, etc.

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli don't have the same statistical resume as Melo but those are the kind of players you need to win Chips. Something they have that Melo hasn't come close to sniffing. Tony Parker is also a Finals MVP you know he won this over Duncan who will always have a better resume than he correct?

I knew you were going to mention Smith and Novak.... how shortsighted and fallible of you to do so.

Novak and Lin were initially acquired as a waived players(500k-$1mil) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire them had we not traded all those assets for Melo?

Smith was acquired at a prorated MLE deal(2.3mil or thereabouts) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire him had we not traded all those assets for Melo? Felton and Curry were expirings 2011 and 2012 as were a few other players.

Those salary slots were always available for such players, use your brain. As long as we had roster spots available Smith/Novak/Lin were always gettable...... goodness gracious where's your IQ almighty?

Smith and Novak were in no way, shape, or form part of the degrees of trades. I specifically mentioned the assets and players directly involved via trades/amnesty

As far as Camby is concerned we could have traded a player like Moz for him straight up, while retaining all our other assets. Not saying I would have done so

I mention Novak and Smith because we would'nt have signed them if we never made the trade. Not enough roster space to get these players. It is a series of events that created a situation where we would sign these players. Seriously look at the players you are mentioning above. Only Gallo and Felton are NBA starters. We have Felton back. Gallo and Chandler are making around the same money combined as Melo. Are they worth that? Of course not. Everyone else on this list? Come on. When will fans stop living in a fantasy land where late picks/cap space is worth more than proven all-star players? There is no proof we would be a playoff team right now without Melo. We would be a team desperate because our best player is injured and declining. The idea of continuously flexbility and rebuilding is so much greater than the reality. The reality is all of those pieces you indicated above cannot form a team greater than one built around Melo. People would rather have a lottery team built around Gallo with "hope" than a playoff team.

Sorry dude a team can have 12 active players and 3 on the IR. We could have also cut whomever we wanted to make room for them should it be tight. Lin/Novak/Smith would have been an option of ours. Talk yourself into thinking they weren't if you want.

The team went bargain bin shopping due to lack of depth. The lack of depth was a direct result of the trade. Had the trade never happened we would have overpaid other higher known role players. We would have never picked up Lin because we would have already had Felton, Douglas, Bibby etc. No need for Novak with Gallo, Chandler, AR, Fields, etc. Probably no need for JR Smith either. It's just speculation of course, but i'm just doing the simple roster math. The team went looking out of the box, they wouldn't have done that if the trade didn't occur. We would have missed the playoffs last season with Stoudemire's issues, Gallo's injuries, Felton being fat, etc. Plus after paying Gallo and W Chandler, we would have still been over the cap with no flexibility.

We drafted Gallo when we had Lee/Jeffries/Randolph/Wilson Chandler all guys playing positions 3-4

We then followed that up with drafting Hill when we had Lee/Gallo/Chandler/Harrington all guys playing positions 3-4

We signed Jonathan Bender when we had Gallo/Chandler/Harrington/Jeffries

We signed Shawne Williams when we had Gallo/Chandler/Amar'e

We then followed that up with drafting Fields when we had Gallo/Chandler/Walker

We traded for Turiaf/Anthony Randolph when we had Amar'e/Gallo/Chandler

We signed Derrick Brown when had Shawne Williams/Amar'e/Shelden Williams/Jeffries

Did we not attempt to try and sign Ramon Sessions when we had Felton/Douglas on the roster already?

I don't want to hear anything about we wouldn't have picked them up trying to cite redundancy

The point I'm proving to you if we wanted to we could have.... You tried to imply those additions were exclusive to the trade for Melo, when they weren't.

You have no idea if we would have picked Lin up as you don't know what other moves could have been facilitated in the between time. Felton had a 2yr deal he was going to expire and Bibby had a 1yr deal. We had no long term solution at point guard.

And here's me nailing you in a Pine Box officially

We had at the time of 2011-2012 off-season Douglas and Bibby as point guards.....We claim a Broke Back Baron Davis off Amnesty it was known his back was broke but we still claimed him anyway. That's 2 examples of how much the organization thought of Douglas as a point guard see pursuing Sessions again. But wait we ended up claiming Lin too. That's 4 point guards 1 hurt. Now if we back up to 2010-2011 wasn't that the season of Douglas having a bad back and bum shoulder, I believe so. Douglas didn't have a good year the following season... last year. So the idea of adding another point guard in the mold of Lin would have been wise.

R.I.P.

Hahaha. This does not prove anything. Douglas was always viewed as a backup PG. They added Davis to find a starter. Lin was only retained and played because we were that desperate. With Felton in the equation, none of that occurs. Felton starts, Douglas remains a backup and isn't exposed as a starter, and Bibby is probably added as he was the first. So much for your theory.

My point is none of this would have occured if the trade didn't happen. If you believe otherwise you are just wrong. Say what you want. We would have witnessed another disaster season and been tied to many bad contracts. Now we have a playoff team. Give me the playoff team any day of the week. Enjoy your constant rebuild, and constant "hope." Maybe someday they will get back to the playoffs with your approach. Maybe be a winning team.

really dude? you don't get it.. do you?

I get we would be a lottery team with a bunch of overpaid role players. That was the alternative. I still cant believe there are people here that would still prefer this.

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Carmelo in his prime and came to NYC to play with Amare. Instead he gets to play with an constantly injured former allstar.

Same thing happened to McGrady with Grant Hill.

Same complaints about both guys not getting their team deep in the playoffs.

Sad indeed.

He could have waited to sign in the summer and may have had a little more help. It's not like Amar'e didn't have history and he's played a lot of basketball considering his health issues. Dudes start breaking down at 30 look at Wade look at Kobe from their shoulders to their knees.

I don't feel sorry for Melo, I feel sorry for us having to suffer once again through this mess which much could have been avoided.

I keep reading people posting this and it just is not reality based. He wanted out of Denver, he wanted a new deal before the old cba ended and Denver wanted something for him. He wasn't staying and Denver wasn't keeping him to lose him for nothing.

Thank you, on top of that the team if Melo waited right now would lack Chandler/Shumpert/Smith because we'd be stuck with Gallinari on a big deal, lost Wilson Chandler for nothin

Our line-ups would be either

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Gallinari/Stoudemire

Felton/Fields/Anthony/Stoudemire/Mozgov

neither are better than potentially

Felton/Shumpert/Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler

with a bench of Jason Kidd/JR Smith/Steve Novak/Marcus Camby and filler guys like Pablo Prigioni/Ronnie Brewer/Kurt Thomas/Rasheed Wallace

lets this team get healthy, get some chemistry and games under their belt. I wont judge this team til the All-Star Break

This is exactly right. Why do people fail to realize what our team would look like had Melo not forced his way here via trade? Chandler is better than anyone we would have retained. Would you rather have an overpaid Gallo or get a real center in tyson chandler, who was our best player last year? And we got back Felton, who was probably the best overall player we traded for Melo. When we traded for Melo, we only really lost Gallo and W Chandler, and got the opportunity to get t chandler.

What about the 4 picks that we gave them + Mozgov? You know we could really use an athletic center right now.

I thought it was two picks, the Knicks 2014 first rounder and a second round pick. I am not sure I am right but I know it was only 1 first rounder because they had already moved most all of the first round picks they could to get under the cap.

I clearly outlined everything in detail several times what was given up. Not sure why you continue to Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder this imperative information.

We gave up and/or let go

Gallo....(given up in the Melo deal)
Chandler....(given up in the Melo deal)
Moz....(given up in the Melo deal)
Felton....(given up in the Melo deal)
Curry....(expiring wasted in the Melo deal)
AR....(given up in the Melo deal)
2014....(given up in the Melo deal)
2016....(swap)(given up in the Melo deal)
2012 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
2013 2nd....(given up in the Melo deal GSW's pick)
Cash Considerations.....(given up in the Melo deal)
Waived Brewer.....(wasted in the Melo deal)
Jared Jeffries.....(S&T to get Felton)
Kostas.....(traded to get Felton)
Georgio.....(traded to get Felton)
future protected 2nd....(traded to get Felton)
Lin.....(wouldn't match signed Felton)
Tax Hit.....(Felton's additional salary)
Billups....(amnestied for Chandler)

We end up with Felton/Chandler/Melo

That's way too much for what we have now

And how many of those players (or picks) will ever be as successful as either Melo or Chandler. Probably zero.

And if you want to get into that much detail, players like JR Smith and Novak are on our roster as a result of the series of transactions so add them to the list, as well as Camby who we used assets attained to acquire.

Melo, T Chandler, Felton, Smith, Novak, Camby, etc >>>> Gallo, W Chandler, AR, Moz, Curry, Lin, etc.

Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli don't have the same statistical resume as Melo but those are the kind of players you need to win Chips. Something they have that Melo hasn't come close to sniffing. Tony Parker is also a Finals MVP you know he won this over Duncan who will always have a better resume than he correct?

I knew you were going to mention Smith and Novak.... how shortsighted and fallible of you to do so.

Novak and Lin were initially acquired as a waived players(500k-$1mil) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire them had we not traded all those assets for Melo?

Smith was acquired at a prorated MLE deal(2.3mil or thereabouts) tell me exactly how we wouldn't have been able to acquire him had we not traded all those assets for Melo? Felton and Curry were expirings 2011 and 2012 as were a few other players.

Those salary slots were always available for such players, use your brain. As long as we had roster spots available Smith/Novak/Lin were always gettable...... goodness gracious where's your IQ almighty?

Smith and Novak were in no way, shape, or form part of the degrees of trades. I specifically mentioned the assets and players directly involved via trades/amnesty

As far as Camby is concerned we could have traded a player like Moz for him straight up, while retaining all our other assets. Not saying I would have done so

I mention Novak and Smith because we would'nt have signed them if we never made the trade. Not enough roster space to get these players. It is a series of events that created a situation where we would sign these players. Seriously look at the players you are mentioning above. Only Gallo and Felton are NBA starters. We have Felton back. Gallo and Chandler are making around the same money combined as Melo. Are they worth that? Of course not. Everyone else on this list? Come on. When will fans stop living in a fantasy land where late picks/cap space is worth more than proven all-star players? There is no proof we would be a playoff team right now without Melo. We would be a team desperate because our best player is injured and declining. The idea of continuously flexbility and rebuilding is so much greater than the reality. The reality is all of those pieces you indicated above cannot form a team greater than one built around Melo. People would rather have a lottery team built around Gallo with "hope" than a playoff team.

Sorry dude a team can have 12 active players and 3 on the IR. We could have also cut whomever we wanted to make room for them should it be tight. Lin/Novak/Smith would have been an option of ours. Talk yourself into thinking they weren't if you want.

The team went bargain bin shopping due to lack of depth. The lack of depth was a direct result of the trade. Had the trade never happened we would have overpaid other higher known role players. We would have never picked up Lin because we would have already had Felton, Douglas, Bibby etc. No need for Novak with Gallo, Chandler, AR, Fields, etc. Probably no need for JR Smith either. It's just speculation of course, but i'm just doing the simple roster math. The team went looking out of the box, they wouldn't have done that if the trade didn't occur. We would have missed the playoffs last season with Stoudemire's issues, Gallo's injuries, Felton being fat, etc. Plus after paying Gallo and W Chandler, we would have still been over the cap with no flexibility.

We drafted Gallo when we had Lee/Jeffries/Randolph/Wilson Chandler all guys playing positions 3-4

We then followed that up with drafting Hill when we had Lee/Gallo/Chandler/Harrington all guys playing positions 3-4

We signed Jonathan Bender when we had Gallo/Chandler/Harrington/Jeffries

We signed Shawne Williams when we had Gallo/Chandler/Amar'e

We then followed that up with drafting Fields when we had Gallo/Chandler/Walker

We traded for Turiaf/Anthony Randolph when we had Amar'e/Gallo/Chandler

We signed Derrick Brown when had Shawne Williams/Amar'e/Shelden Williams/Jeffries

Did we not attempt to try and sign Ramon Sessions when we had Felton/Douglas on the roster already?

I don't want to hear anything about we wouldn't have picked them up trying to cite redundancy

The point I'm proving to you if we wanted to we could have.... You tried to imply those additions were exclusive to the trade for Melo, when they weren't.

You have no idea if we would have picked Lin up as you don't know what other moves could have been facilitated in the between time. Felton had a 2yr deal he was going to expire and Bibby had a 1yr deal. We had no long term solution at point guard.

And here's me nailing you in a Pine Box officially

We had at the time of 2011-2012 off-season Douglas and Bibby as point guards.....We claim a Broke Back Baron Davis off Amnesty it was known his back was broke but we still claimed him anyway. That's 2 examples of how much the organization thought of Douglas as a point guard see pursuing Sessions again. But wait we ended up claiming Lin too. That's 4 point guards 1 hurt. Now if we back up to 2010-2011 wasn't that the season of Douglas having a bad back and bum shoulder, I believe so. Douglas didn't have a good year the following season... last year. So the idea of adding another point guard in the mold of Lin would have been wise.

R.I.P.

Hahaha. This does not prove anything. Douglas was always viewed as a backup PG. They added Davis to find a starter. Lin was only retained and played because we were that desperate. With Felton in the equation, none of that occurs. Felton starts, Douglas remains a backup and isn't exposed as a starter, and Bibby is probably added as he was the first. So much for your theory.

My point is none of this would have occured if the trade didn't happen. If you believe otherwise you are just wrong. Say what you want. We would have witnessed another disaster season and been tied to many bad contracts. Now we have a playoff team. Give me the playoff team any day of the week. Enjoy your constant rebuild, and constant "hope." Maybe someday they will get back to the playoffs with your approach. Maybe be a winning team.

really dude? you don't get it.. do you?

Obviously he doesn't because this summer...we signed Kidd/Prigoni on top of an anticipated starting point guard in Lin staying.

We sign Copeland and White who are essentially forwards when we had Melo and Novak in the fold

So according to him had we not made the Melo deal our team was essentially locked in as is

Maybe a visual would do him better. Players under contract during the summer of 2011

As we can all see we did not have to trade for Melo in order to sign players the likes of Novak/Smith/Lin.

Not to mention no sport team in Human History was ever put together to contend banking on the possibility of rounding out the team via waived players. No team of any sport. Nevertheless we could have signed according to our desire Novak/Lin/Smith/K-Mart/Hickson/Terrence Williams/Boris Diaw/etc etc

Fried Synapses will do that to a person.

Sorry but you make no sense now. Our team would have been stat, gallo, felton, w chandler and some more overpaid role players signed out of desperation. Thats what you preferred? My argument was never that we didnt overpay, my argument was that there has never been a better option. Is your argument to be the next okc thunder? Is it really that easy? What was the alternative, please let me know.

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Sorry but you make no sense now. Our team would have been stat, gallo, felton, w chandler and some more overpaid role players signed out of desperation. Thats what you preferred? My argument was never that we didnt overpay, my argument was that there has never been a better option. Is your argument to be the next okc thunder? Is it really that easy? What was the alternative, please let me know.

The screenshot missed Timofey Mozgov probably because his deal wasn't official at the time of assessing Team Salary but to speak on what you stated above...

Novak is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs, salary, 1 dimensional, Tax Hit)

Camby is currently an overpaid role player(by assets given up, salary, and age, Tax Hit)

Kidd is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs and age, Tax Hit)

Now if you're bent out of shape over Chandler's and Gallo's current salary that's fine but their deals didn't start kicking in until this year. So once again we could have signed those waived players and late season free agents(Lin/Smith/Novak) keeping the team untouched 2010-2011.

You should learn to look at the Options on players at the time. We didn't have to extend and keep Gallo and/or Chandler. We could have used them as trading chips down the road as they build value. We were a playoff team at the time of the trade. The major key..... we'd have all our other future assets in place.

You can't backpedal from what you said. You stated because of the Melo trade we were able to round out the team with waived player and free agents. Keep in mind we don't even have 1 of those waived players anymore and got nothing in return for letting him go. My rebuttal to this line of thinking was... we could have accomplished the same without the trade.

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Sorry but you make no sense now. Our team would have been stat, gallo, felton, w chandler and some more overpaid role players signed out of desperation. Thats what you preferred? My argument was never that we didnt overpay, my argument was that there has never been a better option. Is your argument to be the next okc thunder? Is it really that easy? What was the alternative, please let me know.

The screenshot missed Timofey Mozgov probably because his deal wasn't official at the time of assessing Team Salary but to speak on what you stated above...

Novak is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs, salary, 1 dimensional, Tax Hit)

Camby is currently an overpaid role player(by assets given up, salary, and age, Tax Hit)

Kidd is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs and age, Tax Hit)

Now if you're bent out of shape over Chandler's and Gallo's current salary that's fine but their deals didn't start kicking in until this year. So once again we could have signed those waived players and late season free agents(Lin/Smith/Novak) keeping the team untouched 2010-2011.

You should learn to look at the Options on players at the time. We didn't have to extend and keep Gallo and/or Chandler. We could have used them as trading chips down the road as they build value. We were a playoff team at the time of the trade. The major key..... we'd have all our other future assets in place.

You can't backpedal from what you said. You stated because of the Melo trade we were able to round out the team with waived player and free agents. Keep in mind we don't even have 1 of those waived players anymore and got nothing in return for letting him go. My rebuttal to this line of thinking was... we could have accomplished the same without the trade.

We couldnt have signed a player of melos caliber under the new cba, so no we couldnt have accomplished the same thing. And gallo and chandler were no longer major assets the following year because they were due pay days. Hqving assets moving forward is not an acceptable rebuttle. What good are assets when you cant turn them into anything? The melo trade haters are all the same. It was a terrible deal but no alternative plan in mind. Just complain for the sake of complaining. Im shutting down the argiment here.

Wrong!

Denver gave Nene and Afflalo new deals and ended up with McGee and Iggy within a year of handing out those deals

I don't care about the caliber of Melo as a player. You think he's all world, I don't. Even if I did.... I care most about results/flexibility. 28-26 before and 42-43(actual games Melo played in) since....to the degree we're now fretting over where the team salary is in relation to the Tax.

Yes had we not touched the team we could be

42-46 after 88gms total played in the Melo era

2 1rst round exits

with Gallo/Chandler/Moz/Amar'e/Fields/Jorts 2014 & 2016 1rst picks/2012 and 2013 2nd picks/

and

any combination of Lin/Novak/Smith/Diaw/Terrence Williams/J.J. Hickson/K-Mart/Prigoni/Copeland/White/Curry/Brown or any other waived player of 2011-2012 or 2012-2013 or early off-season or late season free agent.

Look at the knicks record with melo when amare is hurt late in the season. Maybe you are looking at the wrong player. So far since getting melo we cant prove melo and amare can be effective together. I still think they can. But your argument against melo is very shortsighted and off base.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Sorry but you make no sense now. Our team would have been stat, gallo, felton, w chandler and some more overpaid role players signed out of desperation. Thats what you preferred? My argument was never that we didnt overpay, my argument was that there has never been a better option. Is your argument to be the next okc thunder? Is it really that easy? What was the alternative, please let me know.

The screenshot missed Timofey Mozgov probably because his deal wasn't official at the time of assessing Team Salary but to speak on what you stated above...

Novak is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs, salary, 1 dimensional, Tax Hit)

Camby is currently an overpaid role player(by assets given up, salary, and age, Tax Hit)

Kidd is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs and age, Tax Hit)

Now if you're bent out of shape over Chandler's and Gallo's current salary that's fine but their deals didn't start kicking in until this year. So once again we could have signed those waived players and late season free agents(Lin/Smith/Novak) keeping the team untouched 2010-2011.

You should learn to look at the Options on players at the time. We didn't have to extend and keep Gallo and/or Chandler. We could have used them as trading chips down the road as they build value. We were a playoff team at the time of the trade. The major key..... we'd have all our other future assets in place.

You can't backpedal from what you said. You stated because of the Melo trade we were able to round out the team with waived player and free agents. Keep in mind we don't even have 1 of those waived players anymore and got nothing in return for letting him go. My rebuttal to this line of thinking was... we could have accomplished the same without the trade.

We couldnt have signed a player of melos caliber under the new cba, so no we couldnt have accomplished the same thing. And gallo and chandler were no longer major assets the following year because they were due pay days. Hqving assets moving forward is not an acceptable rebuttle. What good are assets when you cant turn them into anything? The melo trade haters are all the same. It was a terrible deal but no alternative plan in mind. Just complain for the sake of complaining. Im shutting down the argiment here.

Wrong!

Denver gave Nene and Afflalo new deals and ended up with McGee and Iggy within a year of handing out those deals

I don't care about the caliber of Melo as a player. You think he's all world, I don't. Even if I did.... I care most about results/flexibility. 28-26 before and 42-43(actual games Melo played in) since....to the degree we're now fretting over where the team salary is in relation to the Tax.

Yes had we not touched the team we could be

42-46 after 88gms total played in the Melo era

2 1rst round exits

with Gallo/Chandler/Moz/Amar'e/Fields/Jorts 2014 & 2016 1rst picks/2012 and 2013 2nd picks/

and

any combination of Lin/Novak/Smith/Diaw/Terrence Williams/J.J. Hickson/K-Mart/Prigoni/Copeland/White/Curry/Brown or any other waived player of 2011-2012 or 2012-2013 or early off-season or late season free agent.

Look at the knicks record with melo when amare is hurt late in the season. Maybe you are looking at the wrong player. So far since getting melo we cant prove melo and amare can be effective together. I still think they can. But your argument against melo is very shortsighted and off base.

it is not short sighted and it is not off base... I keep hearing about a player of "melo's caliber".. tell me what is that? he is not an MVP, never a first team all NBA player, never on any all NBA defense teams, never a scoring champ.. so what is his caliber that we could not sigh? I get it you think he is a star, I don't think he is.... a player of the caliber of tony parker, ginobili, etc would have been just fine to add to this group...

He proved to you that at any time we could have signed any of the role players we ended up with after the trade...

And guess what, right now, we have old, overpaid role players that we signed out of desperation....

how are we any better bro?

Here is what Anthony has proven to me in his career: He has been to the playoffs every year as the team's best player. He is one of the few NBA players who can get you there without other all-stars alongside him. I know you will say he hasn't had a lot of success when he gets there, but at least he gets there. A star is a player who can carry you to wins, and he does that. He has his weaknesses, but he can get you there.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Sorry but you make no sense now. Our team would have been stat, gallo, felton, w chandler and some more overpaid role players signed out of desperation. Thats what you preferred? My argument was never that we didnt overpay, my argument was that there has never been a better option. Is your argument to be the next okc thunder? Is it really that easy? What was the alternative, please let me know.

The screenshot missed Timofey Mozgov probably because his deal wasn't official at the time of assessing Team Salary but to speak on what you stated above...

Novak is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs, salary, 1 dimensional, Tax Hit)

Camby is currently an overpaid role player(by assets given up, salary, and age, Tax Hit)

Kidd is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs and age, Tax Hit)

Now if you're bent out of shape over Chandler's and Gallo's current salary that's fine but their deals didn't start kicking in until this year. So once again we could have signed those waived players and late season free agents(Lin/Smith/Novak) keeping the team untouched 2010-2011.

You should learn to look at the Options on players at the time. We didn't have to extend and keep Gallo and/or Chandler. We could have used them as trading chips down the road as they build value. We were a playoff team at the time of the trade. The major key..... we'd have all our other future assets in place.

You can't backpedal from what you said. You stated because of the Melo trade we were able to round out the team with waived player and free agents. Keep in mind we don't even have 1 of those waived players anymore and got nothing in return for letting him go. My rebuttal to this line of thinking was... we could have accomplished the same without the trade.

We couldnt have signed a player of melos caliber under the new cba, so no we couldnt have accomplished the same thing. And gallo and chandler were no longer major assets the following year because they were due pay days. Hqving assets moving forward is not an acceptable rebuttle. What good are assets when you cant turn them into anything? The melo trade haters are all the same. It was a terrible deal but no alternative plan in mind. Just complain for the sake of complaining. Im shutting down the argiment here.

Wrong!

Denver gave Nene and Afflalo new deals and ended up with McGee and Iggy within a year of handing out those deals

I don't care about the caliber of Melo as a player. You think he's all world, I don't. Even if I did.... I care most about results/flexibility. 28-26 before and 42-43(actual games Melo played in) since....to the degree we're now fretting over where the team salary is in relation to the Tax.

Yes had we not touched the team we could be

42-46 after 88gms total played in the Melo era

2 1rst round exits

with Gallo/Chandler/Moz/Amar'e/Fields/Jorts 2014 & 2016 1rst picks/2012 and 2013 2nd picks/

and

any combination of Lin/Novak/Smith/Diaw/Terrence Williams/J.J. Hickson/K-Mart/Prigoni/Copeland/White/Curry/Brown or any other waived player of 2011-2012 or 2012-2013 or early off-season or late season free agent.

Look at the knicks record with melo when amare is hurt late in the season. Maybe you are looking at the wrong player. So far since getting melo we cant prove melo and amare can be effective together. I still think they can. But your argument against melo is very shortsighted and off base.

it is not short sighted and it is not off base... I keep hearing about a player of "melo's caliber".. tell me what is that? he is not an MVP, never a first team all NBA player, never on any all NBA defense teams, never a scoring champ.. so what is his caliber that we could not sigh? I get it you think he is a star, I don't think he is.... a player of the caliber of tony parker, ginobili, etc would have been just fine to add to this group...

He proved to you that at any time we could have signed any of the role players we ended up with after the trade...

And guess what, right now, we have old, overpaid role players that we signed out of desperation....

how are we any better bro?

Here is what Anthony has proven to me in his career: He has been to the playoffs every year as the team's best player. He is one of the few NBA players who can get you there without other all-stars alongside him. I know you will say he hasn't had a lot of success when he gets there, but at least he gets there. A star is a player who can carry you to wins, and he does that. He has his weaknesses, but he can get you there.

that is such an ambiguous definition.."carry you to wins"... come on man... really?

Honestly, that isn't good enough a lot of teams qualify for the playoffs every year, and you use this "as the teams best player"..

well it works both ways.. as the "teams best player" his team has not gotten out of the first round all except one year in his career... Star players carry their teams in the playoffs.. to wins... right?

I could put together a team of average to good players and make the playoffs every year.... getting there, is just not good enough... I rather not get there for a year or two, but when I do, have a real chance to actually win.. teams who usually build with a plan, teams who have leadership and cohesion usually go through this.... and they usually have a legit chance at winning.... not just showing up..

As i said in my prior post, i can agree he has not had enough success in the playoffs. In my opinion, and obviously it will likely be different than yours, i believe that his lack of success in the playoffs was more of a product of the deep western conference, and the Denver organization's inability to put a better supporting cast around him. For example, the 1 year he made it to the western conf finals, he had billups would was still in his prime. Could Lebron had carried his cleveland team past the first round in the west all those years? I'm not so sure. Like i said we can agree to disagree, but Anthony making it to the playoffs every year in denver after the team struggled the years prior to his arrival should say a lot.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Sorry but you make no sense now. Our team would have been stat, gallo, felton, w chandler and some more overpaid role players signed out of desperation. Thats what you preferred? My argument was never that we didnt overpay, my argument was that there has never been a better option. Is your argument to be the next okc thunder? Is it really that easy? What was the alternative, please let me know.

The screenshot missed Timofey Mozgov probably because his deal wasn't official at the time of assessing Team Salary but to speak on what you stated above...

Novak is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs, salary, 1 dimensional, Tax Hit)

Camby is currently an overpaid role player(by assets given up, salary, and age, Tax Hit)

Kidd is currently an overpaid role player(by yrs and age, Tax Hit)

Now if you're bent out of shape over Chandler's and Gallo's current salary that's fine but their deals didn't start kicking in until this year. So once again we could have signed those waived players and late season free agents(Lin/Smith/Novak) keeping the team untouched 2010-2011.

You should learn to look at the Options on players at the time. We didn't have to extend and keep Gallo and/or Chandler. We could have used them as trading chips down the road as they build value. We were a playoff team at the time of the trade. The major key..... we'd have all our other future assets in place.

You can't backpedal from what you said. You stated because of the Melo trade we were able to round out the team with waived player and free agents. Keep in mind we don't even have 1 of those waived players anymore and got nothing in return for letting him go. My rebuttal to this line of thinking was... we could have accomplished the same without the trade.

We couldnt have signed a player of melos caliber under the new cba, so no we couldnt have accomplished the same thing. And gallo and chandler were no longer major assets the following year because they were due pay days. Hqving assets moving forward is not an acceptable rebuttle. What good are assets when you cant turn them into anything? The melo trade haters are all the same. It was a terrible deal but no alternative plan in mind. Just complain for the sake of complaining. Im shutting down the argiment here.

Wrong!

Denver gave Nene and Afflalo new deals and ended up with McGee and Iggy within a year of handing out those deals

I don't care about the caliber of Melo as a player. You think he's all world, I don't. Even if I did.... I care most about results/flexibility. 28-26 before and 42-43(actual games Melo played in) since....to the degree we're now fretting over where the team salary is in relation to the Tax.

Yes had we not touched the team we could be

42-46 after 88gms total played in the Melo era

2 1rst round exits

with Gallo/Chandler/Moz/Amar'e/Fields/Jorts 2014 & 2016 1rst picks/2012 and 2013 2nd picks/

and

any combination of Lin/Novak/Smith/Diaw/Terrence Williams/J.J. Hickson/K-Mart/Prigoni/Copeland/White/Curry/Brown or any other waived player of 2011-2012 or 2012-2013 or early off-season or late season free agent.

Look at the knicks record with melo when amare is hurt late in the season. Maybe you are looking at the wrong player. So far since getting melo we cant prove melo and amare can be effective together. I still think they can. But your argument against melo is very shortsighted and off base.

it is not short sighted and it is not off base... I keep hearing about a player of "melo's caliber".. tell me what is that? he is not an MVP, never a first team all NBA player, never on any all NBA defense teams, never a scoring champ.. so what is his caliber that we could not sigh? I get it you think he is a star, I don't think he is.... a player of the caliber of tony parker, ginobili, etc would have been just fine to add to this group...

He proved to you that at any time we could have signed any of the role players we ended up with after the trade...

And guess what, right now, we have old, overpaid role players that we signed out of desperation....

how are we any better bro?

Here is what Anthony has proven to me in his career: He has been to the playoffs every year as the team's best player. He is one of the few NBA players who can get you there without other all-stars alongside him. I know you will say he hasn't had a lot of success when he gets there, but at least he gets there. A star is a player who can carry you to wins, and he does that. He has his weaknesses, but he can get you there.

that is such an ambiguous definition.."carry you to wins"... come on man... really?

Honestly, that isn't good enough a lot of teams qualify for the playoffs every year, and you use this "as the teams best player"..

well it works both ways.. as the "teams best player" his team has not gotten out of the first round all except one year in his career... Star players carry their teams in the playoffs.. to wins... right?

I could put together a team of average to good players and make the playoffs every year.... getting there, is just not good enough... I rather not get there for a year or two, but when I do, have a real chance to actually win.. teams who usually build with a plan, teams who have leadership and cohesion usually go through this.... and they usually have a legit chance at winning.... not just showing up..

As i said in my prior post, i can agree he has not had enough success in the playoffs. In my opinion, and obviously it will likely be different than yours, i believe that his lack of success in the playoffs was more of a product of the deep western conference, and the Denver organization's inability to put a better supporting cast around him. For example, the 1 year he made it to the western conf finals, he had billups would was still in his prime. Could Lebron had carried his cleveland team past the first round in the west all those years? I'm not so sure. Like i said we can agree to disagree, but Anthony making it to the playoffs every year in denver after the team struggled the years prior to his arrival should say a lot.

DENVER was a mis-mosh group years prior, but lets be a little honest, the year before melo got there, camby only played 29 games.... the next year melo came, but so did Andre miller, who was one of the better PG's in the league... lets not make this seem like all denver did was add mello and poof.. they were great... that is not the truth bro..

3G4G wrote:TKF when the Nuggets hired George Karl that's when POOF begin and the numbers once again don't lie here.

I think the POOF began when Denver got rid of MDA