Nalod wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The problem is that he doesn't realize - and it appears no one advising him does either - that he needs to stop the contested 20 foot jump shots. He may be willing to make sacrifices but he doesn't know what sacrifices he needs to make.

Silly...I think u have had enough time to assess Melo's game to realize he is a rhythm shooter or player...No sure MDA understood that either so nothing personal...Melo shoots himself into rhythm...He is not a consistently hot shooter..He is extremely streaky...Not like JR who comes and goes...Melo needs shots and can shoot himself into most games, not all, most...He needs touches period..It would be great if he could stand in a corner and just knock down jumpers, but he just isn't that dude no matter how much we whine about it...To a lessor extent, LeBron is that way too..He too takes some crazy shots at times but when he starts knocking them down it's over...

you pretty much explained why no team should ever, ever be built around him.....

What he said is actually applicable to all the top scorers in the league except Durant who is ridiculously efficient. Also, Melo's overall fg%, fg% from mid-range and fg% in the paint is superior to the two players you constantly pine and whine over (Gallo and Lin). Go figure.

actually not, the top scorers in the league, guys like lebron, wade, are also very efficient.... so is dirk, so it is not applicable..

and here you go again, it is sad when all you can do is base your defense using gallo and lin.... so now you are setting melo standards by guys you obviously feel are inferior.. typical melo lovers mentality.. no wonder why these discussions go nowhere.. LOL....

actually I pine and whined over lebron...... so now what?

I can agree with LeBron, Wade, Dirk and Durant. I will also state that people killed LeBron and Dirk, in the same manner you kill Melo, for YEARS AND YEARS.

I bring up Gallo and Lin to point out your hypocrisy. You kill Melo for things while ignoring all the flaws of Gallo and Lin. If you applied your harsh and warped criticism to all players equally then I would not need to point out your agenda driven hypocrisy.

Melo is marketed as a "star", Gallo was not. Take out Lins silly contract, he was a young potentially top 5-10 point guard. Melo is hyped.

It was melo and Billups for Gallo, Moz, Wilson, felton, AND two no. 1 picks!

Melo came with great fanfare!

In the land of pretend and make-believe you can ignore Lin's contract, but in the real world, you have to take Lin's actual contract into account. In the final year of his contract, he is expected to perform on the levels of an elite pg. Lets see him do it. If he doesn't, then he's an overrated bum. Isn't that how it works?

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well I for one is happy to see Melo say he will do what it takes to win...Sorry no spin...

I believe Melo I think that he will make sacrifices and wants to win badly especially after his buddy Lebron won. However you cant blame people who feel taht Melo needs to prove it on the court first because he does. I like melo and feel that he will have his best year BUT he still has to prove it

These are the same people who thinks Gallo doesn't flops..

Holfresh, good post but you opened the flood gates for the usual anti-Melo-Jerk circle to commence...Its beyond funny how its the usual suspects that love Gallo/Hate Melo....What ever happened to objectivity?

I'm not a Gallo lover by any means. Matter of fact he was extremely overrated when here but what I'll give Gallo credit for is showing some strides and growing into what could be a unique player. What he has to improve on first and foremost is his health, his ability to hit wide open jumpers, and his ability to finish at the rim off the dribble. He plays big most of the time, when it's money time and he plays with a pretty decent level of efficiency.

What the Melo lovers have a hard time dealing with is that Melo isn't beyond criticism and the level at which you all want to shower praise on him comes in wake of criticism heaped on him.

How about you guys do what Melo should be doing and just let things play out instead of trying to hand him/announce glory in advance.

Good grief even one of Melo's biggest supporters Stephen A. Smith has acknowledged the dude hasn't gotten the job done yet

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The problem is that he doesn't realize - and it appears no one advising him does either - that he needs to stop the contested 20 foot jump shots. He may be willing to make sacrifices but he doesn't know what sacrifices he needs to make.

Silly...I think u have had enough time to assess Melo's game to realize he is a rhythm shooter or player...No sure MDA understood that either so nothing personal...Melo shoots himself into rhythm...He is not a consistently hot shooter..He is extremely streaky...Not like JR who comes and goes...Melo needs shots and can shoot himself into most games, not all, most...He needs touches period..It would be great if he could stand in a corner and just knock down jumpers, but he just isn't that dude no matter how much we whine about it...To a lessor extent, LeBron is that way too..He too takes some crazy shots at times but when he starts knocking them down it's over...

you pretty much explained why no team should ever, ever be built around him.....

What he said is actually applicable to all the top scorers in the league except Durant who is ridiculously efficient. Also, Melo's overall fg%, fg% from mid-range and fg% in the paint is superior to the two players you constantly pine and whine over (Gallo and Lin). Go figure.

actually not, the top scorers in the league, guys like lebron, wade, are also very efficient.... so is dirk, so it is not applicable..

and here you go again, it is sad when all you can do is base your defense using gallo and lin.... so now you are setting melo standards by guys you obviously feel are inferior.. typical melo lovers mentality.. no wonder why these discussions go nowhere.. LOL....

actually I pine and whined over lebron...... so now what?

I can agree with LeBron, Wade, Dirk and Durant. I will also state that people killed LeBron and Dirk, in the same manner you kill Melo, for YEARS AND YEARS.

I bring up Gallo and Lin to point out your hypocrisy. You kill Melo for things while ignoring all the flaws of Gallo and Lin. If you applied your harsh and warped criticism to all players equally then I would not need to point out your agenda driven hypocrisy.

melo earns 20 million plus a season
gallo earns 10 million a season
lin earns 5 million a season

you pay more you expect more. no hypocrisy. he isn't ignoring any flaws. we all know what gallo and lin's flaws are. gallo is slow-footed and has a hard time getting back on transition d. his shot has gone a bit flat since his rookie season. lin needs to work on keeping his head up, not committing to the air too early without a plan, needs to develop his left hand, and work on protecting the ball and drawing more fouls.

what are melo's flaws?

NUPE?

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well I for one is happy to see Melo say he will do what it takes to win...Sorry no spin...

I believe Melo I think that he will make sacrifices and wants to win badly especially after his buddy Lebron won. However you cant blame people who feel taht Melo needs to prove it on the court first because he does. I like melo and feel that he will have his best year BUT he still has to prove it

These are the same people who thinks Gallo doesn't flops..

Holfresh, good post but you opened the flood gates for the usual anti-Melo-Jerk circle to commence...Its beyond funny how its the usual suspects that love Gallo/Hate Melo....What ever happened to objectivity?

I'm not a Gallo lover by any means. Matter of fact he was extremely overrated when here but what I'll give Gallo credit for is showing some strides and growing into what could be a unique player. What he has to improve on first and foremost is his health, his ability to hit wide open jumpers, and his ability to finish at the rim off the dribble. He plays big most of the time, when it's money time and he plays with a pretty decent level of efficiency.

What the Melo lovers have a hard time dealing with is that Melo isn't beyond criticism and the level at which you all want to shower praise on him comes in wake of criticism heaped on him.

How about you guys do what Melo should be doing and just let things play out instead of trying to hand him/announce glory in advance.

Good grief even one of Melo's biggest supporters Stephen A. Smith has acknowledged the dude hasn't gotten the job done yet

Speaking for myself, I have been critical of Melo when is necessary. I have gone on record as saying Melo had to take some of the blame in the MDA debacle. As the coach and architect of the team, I believe MDA needs to take most of the blame, but Melo wasn't always a good soldier so he takes a bit of a hit aswell.

I find it ironic that those who knock Melo are quick to point out that he's not an elite player, then turn around and bash Melo for not leading his team to 'chips like the elite players they claim he is not as good as anyway. Even the most hardcore Melo fan can see that he's not on Lebron and Kobe's leve and I've never seen anyone on this board say this. We all know he's a pure scorer similar to Gervin, King and Dantley, yet, the Melo-haters up the ante and expect him to put up Lebrons point-forward numbers. When he doesn't, they bash him when they know that's not his make-up. So its pretty much a lose-lose situation for Melo in the eyes of haters who raise the expectation level just out of reach so he can get knocked regardless.

The posts that bother me most, is those that lack any objectivity. The black-white posts that throw up surface-numbers and do not offer a glimpse beneath the surface. It has nothing to do with blaming Karl his Nuggs teammates, but its about being real. Did anyone really expect the Nuggs to beat the Spurs (twice) or the Lakers in the playoffs without homecourt? Why not acknowledge that one year the Nuggs won 50 games and was an 8th seed? Doesn't that say something about how tough the west was during those years? Facts like that are brushed aside and left out of posts because it doesn't fit with certain posters agenda's. Objectivity from some of this posters would nice sometimes....

Sometimes this is done not in a simultaneous nature but let's use common sense here. If those who say this, which suggest he isn't on their level because he doesn't have the chips to back it up....well there's the evidence he's not on their level.

I don't expect him to be Lebron to be honest. I don't believe anyone else does either. Melo is Melo but let's separate him from a player like Lebron. Like suggesting he's the 5th(Top 5) best player in the NBA or that he's the BEST PURE SCORER. When he's neither. I'm not quite sure if Melo is a true SUPERSTAR, it's debatable at best.

Here's what I do know those who don't think highly of Melo now are more than likely those who didn't think highly of him before the trade. But there's a contingency of fans who didn't think highly of Melo prior to the trade and think extremely highly of him now.

So the question you have to ask...... the latter group. What has Melo done or caused you to change your opinion of him since arriving? We haven't won at a great clip, we've barely eeked out a playoff victory and when in comparison to his accomplishments Pre-Knick it's pretty much on the same pace.

The only answer I come up with....he's a Knick. Trust if he was wearing Celtic Green or Brooklyn Black/White he'd be a overrated nobody to all.

limpidgimp wrote:

3G4G wrote:Here's what I do know those who don't think highly of Melo now are more than likely those who didn't think highly of him before the trade. But there's a contingency of fans who didn't think highly of Melo prior to the trade and think extremely highly of him now.

So the question you have to ask...... the latter group. What has Melo done or caused you to change your opinion of him since arriving? We haven't won at a great clip, we've barely eeked out a playoff victory and when in comparison to his accomplishments Pre-Knick it's pretty much on the same pace.

The only answer I come up with....he's a Knick. Trust if he was wearing Celtic Green or Brooklyn Black/White he'd be a overrated nobody to all.

I think a lot of the allowances made to Melo, as well as to JR, are because they are from the NY area. It's like they are family, and we always stick up for family. It's not entirely about basketball.

The implicit narrative being 'They are here in NY because of their loyalty to NY, so we should be loyal to them.'

Isn't J.R. from Jersey? I know Melo is from Brooklyn but he hasn't really lived here for the greater portion of his life. I also know J.R. was not highly regarded prior to being a Knick. He was made fun of to no end.

So I doubt it has much to do with their roots and lies heavily on the uniform they're in. I see your effort here but really this is why the word HOMER exist.

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well I for one is happy to see Melo say he will do what it takes to win...Sorry no spin...

I believe Melo I think that he will make sacrifices and wants to win badly especially after his buddy Lebron won. However you cant blame people who feel taht Melo needs to prove it on the court first because he does. I like melo and feel that he will have his best year BUT he still has to prove it

These are the same people who thinks Gallo doesn't flops..

Holfresh, good post but you opened the flood gates for the usual anti-Melo-Jerk circle to commence...Its beyond funny how its the usual suspects that love Gallo/Hate Melo....What ever happened to objectivity?

I'm not a Gallo lover by any means. Matter of fact he was extremely overrated when here but what I'll give Gallo credit for is showing some strides and growing into what could be a unique player. What he has to improve on first and foremost is his health, his ability to hit wide open jumpers, and his ability to finish at the rim off the dribble. He plays big most of the time, when it's money time and he plays with a pretty decent level of efficiency.

What the Melo lovers have a hard time dealing with is that Melo isn't beyond criticism and the level at which you all want to shower praise on him comes in wake of criticism heaped on him.

How about you guys do what Melo should be doing and just let things play out instead of trying to hand him/announce glory in advance.

Good grief even one of Melo's biggest supporters Stephen A. Smith has acknowledged the dude hasn't gotten the job done yet

Speaking for myself, I have been critical of Melo when is necessary. I have gone on record as saying Melo had to take some of the blame in the MDA debacle. As the coach and architect of the team, I believe MDA needs to take most of the blame, but Melo wasn't always a good soldier so he takes a bit of a hit aswell.

I find it ironic that those who knock Melo are quick to point out that he's not an elite player, then turn around and bash Melo for not leading his team to 'chips like the elite players they claim he is not as good as anyway. Even the most hardcore Melo fan can see that he's not on Lebron and Kobe's leve and I've never seen anyone on this board say this. We all know he's a pure scorer similar to Gervin, King and Dantley, yet, the Melo-haters up the ante and expect him to put up Lebrons point-forward numbers. When he doesn't, they bash him when they know that's not his make-up. So its pretty much a lose-lose situation for Melo in the eyes of haters who raise the expectation level just out of reach so he can get knocked regardless.

The posts that bother me most, is those that lack any objectivity. The black-white posts that throw up surface-numbers and do not offer a glimpse beneath the surface. It has nothing to do with blaming Karl his Nuggs teammates, but its about being real. Did anyone really expect the Nuggs to beat the Spurs (twice) or the Lakers in the playoffs without homecourt? Why not acknowledge that one year the Nuggs won 50 games and was an 8th seed? Doesn't that say something about how tough the west was during those years? Facts like that are brushed aside and left out of posts because it doesn't fit with certain posters agenda's. Objectivity from some of this posters would nice sometimes....

Sometimes this is done not in a simultaneous nature but let's use common sense here. If those who say this, which suggest he isn't on their level because he doesn't have the chips to back it up....well there's the evidence he's not on their level.

I don't expect him to be Lebron to be honest. I don't believe anyone else does either. Melo is Melo but let's separate him from a player like Lebron. Like suggesting he's the 5th(Top 5) best player in the NBA or that he's the BEST PURE SCORER. When he's neither. I'm not quite sure if Melo is a true SUPERSTAR, it's debatable at best.

Here's what I do know those who don't think highly of Melo now are more than likely those who didn't think highly of him before the trade. But there's a contingency of fans who didn't think highly of Melo prior to the trade and think extremely highly of him now.

So the question you have to ask...... the latter group. What has Melo done or caused you to change your opinion of him since arriving? We haven't won at a great clip, we've barely eeked out a playoff victory and when in comparison to his accomplishments Pre-Knick it's pretty much on the same pace.

The only answer I come up with....he's a Knick. Trust if he was wearing Celtic Green or Brooklyn Black/White he'd be a overrated nobody to all.

I dont believe anyone on this board, even the so-called Melo lovers have him ranked in the top 5. No-one is overrating him on this board. Melo is what he is, a pure scorer. By calling him the best pure-scorer in the league is a matter of opinion; its not overrating him. It's definitely a fair debate. Even Barkley calls him the the best pure scorer in the league.

This question you want to pose is mute until you point-out an instance or a poster who has said their opinion of him has changed since he put on the Knick uni. I say this because, I dont see this as being true. Speaking for myself, I've always liked him as a player, dating back to the 'Cuse since I'm a huge Big East guy. Once he joined the Nuggs, I can't say I followed him much. But once he joined my team, my opinion of him didn't change, but my interest in him did for the simple fact that he directly impacts W's and L's of my team.

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The problem is that he doesn't realize - and it appears no one advising him does either - that he needs to stop the contested 20 foot jump shots. He may be willing to make sacrifices but he doesn't know what sacrifices he needs to make.

Silly...I think u have had enough time to assess Melo's game to realize he is a rhythm shooter or player...No sure MDA understood that either so nothing personal...Melo shoots himself into rhythm...He is not a consistently hot shooter..He is extremely streaky...Not like JR who comes and goes...Melo needs shots and can shoot himself into most games, not all, most...He needs touches period..It would be great if he could stand in a corner and just knock down jumpers, but he just isn't that dude no matter how much we whine about it...To a lessor extent, LeBron is that way too..He too takes some crazy shots at times but when he starts knocking them down it's over...

you pretty much explained why no team should ever, ever be built around him.....

What he said is actually applicable to all the top scorers in the league except Durant who is ridiculously efficient. Also, Melo's overall fg%, fg% from mid-range and fg% in the paint is superior to the two players you constantly pine and whine over (Gallo and Lin). Go figure.

actually not, the top scorers in the league, guys like lebron, wade, are also very efficient.... so is dirk, so it is not applicable..

and here you go again, it is sad when all you can do is base your defense using gallo and lin.... so now you are setting melo standards by guys you obviously feel are inferior.. typical melo lovers mentality.. no wonder why these discussions go nowhere.. LOL....

actually I pine and whined over lebron...... so now what?

I can agree with LeBron, Wade, Dirk and Durant. I will also state that people killed LeBron and Dirk, in the same manner you kill Melo, for YEARS AND YEARS.

I bring up Gallo and Lin to point out your hypocrisy. You kill Melo for things while ignoring all the flaws of Gallo and Lin. If you applied your harsh and warped criticism to all players equally then I would not need to point out your agenda driven hypocrisy.

the only people that killed lebron and dirk are those other fans who teams they killed, never heard cavs fans and mavs fans killing their own player.. there is a reason why carmelo gets killed....by his own fans...

and what am I ignoring about gallo and lin.. I acknowledge all of their flaws.. the problem is those guys are not costing us 20 mil a year and did not cost us a future load of assets and picks... there is absolutely no evidence that I ignore those guys flaws, that is just a weak attempt to try and justify your hate for guys who knicks fans rallied behind but won't do so for mr. "pure scorer"....

hypocrisy my behind...

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well I for one is happy to see Melo say he will do what it takes to win...Sorry no spin...

I believe Melo I think that he will make sacrifices and wants to win badly especially after his buddy Lebron won. However you cant blame people who feel taht Melo needs to prove it on the court first because he does. I like melo and feel that he will have his best year BUT he still has to prove it

These are the same people who thinks Gallo doesn't flops..

Holfresh, good post but you opened the flood gates for the usual anti-Melo-Jerk circle to commence...Its beyond funny how its the usual suspects that love Gallo/Hate Melo....What ever happened to objectivity?

I'm not a Gallo lover by any means. Matter of fact he was extremely overrated when here but what I'll give Gallo credit for is showing some strides and growing into what could be a unique player. What he has to improve on first and foremost is his health, his ability to hit wide open jumpers, and his ability to finish at the rim off the dribble. He plays big most of the time, when it's money time and he plays with a pretty decent level of efficiency.

What the Melo lovers have a hard time dealing with is that Melo isn't beyond criticism and the level at which you all want to shower praise on him comes in wake of criticism heaped on him.

How about you guys do what Melo should be doing and just let things play out instead of trying to hand him/announce glory in advance.

Good grief even one of Melo's biggest supporters Stephen A. Smith has acknowledged the dude hasn't gotten the job done yet

Speaking for myself, I have been critical of Melo when is necessary. I have gone on record as saying Melo had to take some of the blame in the MDA debacle. As the coach and architect of the team, I believe MDA needs to take most of the blame, but Melo wasn't always a good soldier so he takes a bit of a hit aswell.

I find it ironic that those who knock Melo are quick to point out that he's not an elite player, then turn around and bash Melo for not leading his team to 'chips like the elite players they claim he is not as good as anyway. Even the most hardcore Melo fan can see that he's not on Lebron and Kobe's leve and I've never seen anyone on this board say this. We all know he's a pure scorer similar to Gervin, King and Dantley, yet, the Melo-haters up the ante and expect him to put up Lebrons point-forward numbers. When he doesn't, they bash him when they know that's not his make-up. So its pretty much a lose-lose situation for Melo in the eyes of haters who raise the expectation level just out of reach so he can get knocked regardless.

The posts that bother me most, is those that lack any objectivity. The black-white posts that throw up surface-numbers and do not offer a glimpse beneath the surface. It has nothing to do with blaming Karl his Nuggs teammates, but its about being real. Did anyone really expect the Nuggs to beat the Spurs (twice) or the Lakers in the playoffs without homecourt? Why not acknowledge that one year the Nuggs won 50 games and was an 8th seed? Doesn't that say something about how tough the west was during those years? Facts like that are brushed aside and left out of posts because it doesn't fit with certain posters agenda's. Objectivity from some of this posters would nice sometimes....

uptown one of the biggest problems I have is this.... when compared to lebron, kobe and wade etc.. melo fans will cry that is not fair, he is not on their level.. but when his flaws are pointed out, they will point to guys like lebron, kobe and wade and say, well people were saying the same thing about them, or they needed another star to win... so in essence they are saying melo is on their level and the only difference is that melo never had another great player.... lol.. which is not true...

also his scoring which is good, but not elite is always overrated... I keep seeing the comparisons to guys like KIng, Gervin.. LOL.. I mean come on.. those guys were super efficient and they were true big time scorers.. I know for sure king and gervin averaged over 30ppg in their careers at least one time... melo at his highest has been at 28ppg.. he is a good scorer, a great streak scorer, but I think that is overblown...

so when melo fans use his scoring to defend him as an elite player. which he is not, or to defend the trade(which was a ridiculous trade) the biggest defense is "the best pure scorer".. argument.. and honestly it is tiring, espeically when I see guys like durant winning scoring titles left and right...

to keep it real as a player melo has had very little team success and even less individually.. why should this guy be mentioned among the elites, heck why should we justify building around him over amare? what has he done to justify that?

dk7th wrote:

melo earns 20 million plus a season
gallo earns 10 million a season
lin earns 5 million a season

you pay more you expect more. no hypocrisy. he isn't ignoring any flaws. we all know what gallo and lin's flaws are. gallo is slow-footed and has a hard time getting back on transition d. his shot has gone a bit flat since his rookie season. lin needs to work on keeping his head up, not committing to the air too early without a plan, needs to develop his left hand, and work on protecting the ball and drawing more fouls.

what are melo's flaws?

Melo earns more than Gallo and Lin because he is substantially and astronomically better than Gallo and Lin. There were multiple teams willing and ready to pay Melo his contract. There was only ONE team willing to give Lin his absurd contract. It's a joke that people claim Melo is not worth his contract while simultaneously crying bloody murder because Dolan did not want to absorb 50+ Million in Lux Taxes,

Their salaries really have nothing to do with giving honest and non-bias critiques of their skill sets. TKF will praise Lin endlessly for the win streak, ignore Lin's massive turnover problem and ignore Lin's shooting woes against better competition. TKF also gives Lin a pass for not playing at 85% during the playoffs. TKF gives Lin all these passes while failing to give Melo any credit for his play the last 20ish games that assured NYK a playoff spot, earned Melo player of the month and was probably the best stretch of solid ball (offense and defense) the Knicks played in years and years.

As for Melo, he can be inefficient at times and have stretches where he takes bad shot attempts. Melo's defense improved under Woodson but Melo needs to show the will to defend 100% of the time rather than 20% of the time.