mrKnickShot wrote:Yes - Go get the big name guards because its almost impossible to win a ring without one.

Again, we started last season with Douglass and Fields as our back court. Is that your recipe for winning in place of going to get a start (guard) player?

What has been proven over the last 20 years? That you don't need a star guard to win? Or, that it does not have to be Paul? You can't mean the latter obviously.

SA - Manu, Parker
LAL - Kobe
Miami - Wade (and Lebron is really the PG on that team)
Boston - Rondo / Ray Allen
Dallas - nothing great but solid - this might be the only exception

Knicks - last year - TD and Landry! This year, Felton and nobody.

Like Isiah said, its a guards league and he is right. Just because he is an assHole does not mean that he must be wrong with every statement. Don't forget that he was one of the best guards of all time. (and of course I don't want the idiot back in NY)

You've already failed by listening to anything Isiah says.

muhaha wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

biglove44 wrote:the snake NEVER left. He'll just have an official title now. i'm coming home, i'm coming home, tell the world i'm coming home.

YUP! Isiah was always working with Dolan. Dolan never liked Stern telling him what to do and he quickly rectified things starting with Walsh. IMO none of this matters. If u like this team you have Isiah to thank for this in part cuz he's Dolan's real GM!!!

I don't know if he is Dolan's real gm. I think that is selling Grunwald short. I agree that he has always had a lot of influence and I also agree about Dolan's reaction to Stern. I think Walsh is gone at least partially because Dolan was told to hire a more stable gm/exec to replace Thomas.

Shortly after Grunwald was hired by Isiah Thomas as assistant General Manager for the Toronto Raptors, he replaced the recently resigned General Manager after Thomas' majority ownership bid had failed.[2]

Glen is almost by default a follower of Isiah. He looks up to him and he knows Dolan views Isiah highly. There's no way Glen has a bigger voice than Isiah. Glen can present his ideas to Dolan but Dolan will bounce that off Isiah and if he says no Dolan won't approve it. Make no mistake Isiah has more power.

Glen is really a front for Isiah. THeir relationship (Grunwald and Isiah) went way back to their days together with the Pacers and Raptors. The reasons for Dolan hired Grundwald in the first place were 1. to prevent public relations disaster and 2. to be used to keep Thomas as a close adviser to the Knicks because of his close tie with Isiah.

Now you have to ask why does Dolan want to keep Thomas around after his disaster tenure with Knicks? CAA!

Creative Artists Agency (CAA), the most influential representation in the NBA. Isiah has a good relationship with CAA and its power broker, William Wesley, whom Isiah used to convince Dolan to get involved in the chases for LeBron and Carmelo.

Look at Miami's big 3 of Lebron, Bosh, and wade. Guess who their agents are? All belong to CAA.

Why do you think JR Smith stayed in NY knowing he could get more else where (especially everyone expected him to opt out)? CAA.

Who did Woodson have to hire to get his coaching job? CAA.

It's sad that it has to come to a day when an agency has so much influence over every decision made by Knicks. Isiah only serves as go between. Whether you like it or not, this is what is happening to Knicks.

NBA is about making money. Dolan makes money together with CAA.
They both don't give a damn about Knicks winning anything and about fans.
Money is the main thing which is destroing the game.
If NBA will continue going in this direction they will end up with 5-6 supper-clubs and finish the NBA transfirmation in WWE-like piece of sht.

knickscity wrote:R u really pushing this? Isiah didn't want Tyson because it specifically cost the Knicks any shot at CP3.

He can spin it all he wants, he doesn't care what the team has as long as it had chris Paul.

And correct it is a guards league, guards who can play both guard positions, not a pg only league.

superstar pg's most likely will go another 10 years before they be that guy to win it all.

I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

I don't have any idea what this statement infers:

"superstar pg's most likely will go another 10 years before they be that guy to win it all."

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:
I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

Wasn't this around the time that CP3 was having knee issues? I can't remember the timeline.

Thats possible. I just believe that signing Tyson to 14.5 million and losing the amnesty locked us out of any opportunity to amnesty Amare if he broke down and/or to sign one of the top FA's such as Deron (who has not impressed me on the nets), Howard, or CP3.

That does not mean that it was the wrong move but it would have given me pause.

Seeing how they would not pay the extra money for Lin makes me believe that the new "fiscally responsible Dolan " would never have amnestied Amare and eaten 40-60 million.

A team can possibly win without top All Star guards but history shows that it is very unlikely. Of the recent years, only Dallas has done this, though they were much better at the guard position then we are.

After the signing of Chandler, how the heck did they think that we could actually we decent with TD and Landry as our guards? Lin was nowhere on anyone's radar and Shump was an unproven rookie who is/was not much of an offensive player.

mrKnickShot wrote:

knickscity wrote:R u really pushing this? Isiah didn't want Tyson because it specifically cost the Knicks any shot at CP3.

He can spin it all he wants, he doesn't care what the team has as long as it had chris Paul.

And correct it is a guards league, guards who can play both guard positions, not a pg only league.

superstar pg's most likely will go another 10 years before they be that guy to win it all.

I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

I don't have any idea what this statement infers:

"superstar pg's most likely will go another 10 years before they be that guy to win it all."

What he said is the same thing you hear from any random fan.

But here's the point, he's not trying to sell a superstar guard, he wants chris Paul, who is a superstar pg, meaning he can only play one position.

You mentioned dallas in the other post, but guess what? the don't have a superstar in either position, but every single guard they had can play both positions.

It's been decades since a superstar pg has won anything, and it will be just as long before one does it again.

My statement infers CP3 will not win a championship in this league, until he is paired with a guard of two variety who can play both positions.

Go back as far as needed and you'd find "guards" not "pg" only wins in this league.

Kobe, Wade, Manu, Chauncey, Jordan, Kidd, Terry....even Harden and Westbrook is very close to the prize.

There has been alot of great pg's and none of them have won a single thing, while being such since Isiah, and even he knows it.

But he's peddling a player that would cost the other components of a championship.....it aint worth it.

knickscity wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

knickscity wrote:R u really pushing this? Isiah didn't want Tyson because it specifically cost the Knicks any shot at CP3.

He can spin it all he wants, he doesn't care what the team has as long as it had chris Paul.

And correct it is a guards league, guards who can play both guard positions, not a pg only league.

superstar pg's most likely will go another 10 years before they be that guy to win it all.

I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

I don't have any idea what this statement infers:

"superstar pg's most likely will go another 10 years before they be that guy to win it all."

The point is Isiah will say whatever to get someone, anyone to listen.

What he said is the same thing you hear from any random fan.

But here's the point, he's not trying to sell a superstar guard, he wants chris Paul, who is a superstar pg, meaning he can only play one position.

You mentioned dallas in the other post, but guess what? the don't have a superstar in either position, but every single guard they had can play both positions.

It's been decades since a superstar pg has won anything, and it will be just as long before one does it again.

My statement infers CP3 will not win a championship in this league, until he is paired with a guard of two variety who can play both positions.

Go back as far as needed and you'd find "guards" not "pg" only wins in this league.

Kobe, Wade, Manu, Chauncey, Jordan, Kidd, Terry....even Harden and Westbrook is very close to the prize.

There has been alot of great pg's and none of them have won a single thing, while being such since Isiah, and even he knows it.

But he's peddling a player that would cost the other components of a championship.....it aint worth it.

Would you trade Tyson straight up for CP3 right now? I would in a heartbeat.

Tony Parker? CB? Rondo? Are you serious? Those teams do not win without their excellent PG's.

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:
I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

Wasn't this around the time that CP3 was having knee issues? I can't remember the timeline.

Thats possible. I just believe that signing Tyson to 14.5 million and losing the amnesty locked us out of any opportunity to amnesty Amare if he broke down and/or to sign one of the top FA's such as Deron (who has not impressed me on the nets), Howard, or CP3.

That does not mean that it was the wrong move but it would have given me pause.

Seeing how they would not pay the extra money for Lin makes me believe that the new "fiscally responsible Dolan " would never have amnestied Amare and eaten 40-60 million.

A team can possibly win without top All Star guards but history shows that it is very unlikely. Of the recent years, only Dallas has done this, though they were much better at the guard position then we are.

After the signing of Chandler, how the heck did they think that we could actually we decent with TD and Landry as our guards? Lin was nowhere on anyone's radar and Shump was an unproven rookie who is/was not much of an offensive player.

I believe its still too soon to tell if they made the right call as far as Stat goes. This season should settle that. The thing is if they had Amnestied Stat instead of Billups they would have lost not one but two starters the next season because Chauncey was out the following year and they didn't know what he would be like after a year off. That might have been part of their reasoning. Stat was just one season removed from his near MVP season. I'm pretty sure after last season they were thinking the same thing you were about using the Amnesty on Stat. If he plays close to how he did before his decline, it might end up being the right move, guess we will find out soon enough.

The way the rest of the league kept abusing our defense and having a coach who wasn't known for making defense as the cornerstone of his system, they probably figured that they had to do something to shore up the front court. I agree 100 percent for the need to have a top tier PG to seriously contend. We don't have that now but maybe Woodson running the point by committee so to speak with Kidd off the bench and Prigioni as well might be good enough to make some waves.

You're right it was a big risk handing the keys to TD. This team had so many holes to fill, they were rolling the dice no matter how they went. They weren't going to fix in one fell swoop. It was a crazy couple of seasons, I think this season is going to settle these questions once and for all.

Good take.

I don't know if it was the right move or not though time will tell. This season will tell us a lot. If Amare sux, then the Tyson signing killed us. If Amare is solid then it was probably a good move. It is all about Amare.

If they did not amnesty CB and sign Tyson and amnestied Amare this summer (would have been a balsy gamble), then they would have wiped 34 million off the books. The only big contract we would have had would have been Melo. Again, I don't think based on the Lin situation that Dolan would have had the stones to do that. And again, if Amare comes out this year and has a solid season, this argument is null and void.

And as you said, if the reason for signing Tyson was to be competitive right away, that was not possible with the guards that we had.

Like I said, they had so many holes to fill, no matter what route they went it was going to leave a hole somewhere else, in this case at PG. With D'Antoni, you figure that the offense would be there, but the defense wasn't for the most part and that was probably behind their decision. Its also why Woodson was hired as an asst.

We also gave MDA no PG which is the most essential part of his offense so in essence, we did set him up to fall on his face.

But it is true - they needed to choose between two evils. No PG, or no defense. Either way was a lose lose and thats why I would have waited it out.

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:
I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

Wasn't this around the time that CP3 was having knee issues? I can't remember the timeline.

Thats possible. I just believe that signing Tyson to 14.5 million and losing the amnesty locked us out of any opportunity to amnesty Amare if he broke down and/or to sign one of the top FA's such as Deron (who has not impressed me on the nets), Howard, or CP3.

That does not mean that it was the wrong move but it would have given me pause.

Seeing how they would not pay the extra money for Lin makes me believe that the new "fiscally responsible Dolan " would never have amnestied Amare and eaten 40-60 million.

A team can possibly win without top All Star guards but history shows that it is very unlikely. Of the recent years, only Dallas has done this, though they were much better at the guard position then we are.

After the signing of Chandler, how the heck did they think that we could actually we decent with TD and Landry as our guards? Lin was nowhere on anyone's radar and Shump was an unproven rookie who is/was not much of an offensive player.

I believe its still too soon to tell if they made the right call as far as Stat goes. This season should settle that. The thing is if they had Amnestied Stat instead of Billups they would have lost not one but two starters the next season because Chauncey was out the following year and they didn't know what he would be like after a year off. That might have been part of their reasoning. Stat was just one season removed from his near MVP season. I'm pretty sure after last season they were thinking the same thing you were about using the Amnesty on Stat. If he plays close to how he did before his decline, it might end up being the right move, guess we will find out soon enough.

The way the rest of the league kept abusing our defense and having a coach who wasn't known for making defense as the cornerstone of his system, they probably figured that they had to do something to shore up the front court. I agree 100 percent for the need to have a top tier PG to seriously contend. We don't have that now but maybe Woodson running the point by committee so to speak with Kidd off the bench and Prigioni as well might be good enough to make some waves.

You're right it was a big risk handing the keys to TD. This team had so many holes to fill, they were rolling the dice no matter how they went. They weren't going to fix in one fell swoop. It was a crazy couple of seasons, I think this season is going to settle these questions once and for all.

Good take.

I don't know if it was the right move or not though time will tell. This season will tell us a lot. If Amare sux, then the Tyson signing killed us. If Amare is solid then it was probably a good move. It is all about Amare.

If they did not amnesty CB and sign Tyson and amnestied Amare this summer (would have been a balsy gamble), then they would have wiped 34 million off the books. The only big contract we would have had would have been Melo. Again, I don't think based on the Lin situation that Dolan would have had the stones to do that. And again, if Amare comes out this year and has a solid season, this argument is null and void.

And as you said, if the reason for signing Tyson was to be competitive right away, that was not possible with the guards that we had.

Like I said, they had so many holes to fill, no matter what route they went it was going to leave a hole somewhere else, in this case at PG. With D'Antoni, you figure that the offense would be there, but the defense wasn't for the most part and that was probably behind their decision. Its also why Woodson was hired as an asst.

We also gave MDA no PG which is the most essential part of his offense so in essence, we did set him up to fall on his face.

But it is true - they needed to choose between two evils. No PG, or no defense. Either way was a lose lose and thats why I would have waited it out.

I don't believe anyone thought that TD was going to crater the way he did, that was a collapse of epic proportions. MDA also has to take his share of the blame for not doing a better job of making the most of the talent he had. Trying to turn Melo into a glorified role player didn't help. He also had issues that were beyond his control so its not all on him.

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:
I don't know or care why Isiah wanted CP3, my point is that the statement of "this is a guards league" is true. And, that getting Tyson which might have been a good move certainly hampered our ability to get cp3.

Wasn't this around the time that CP3 was having knee issues? I can't remember the timeline.

Thats possible. I just believe that signing Tyson to 14.5 million and losing the amnesty locked us out of any opportunity to amnesty Amare if he broke down and/or to sign one of the top FA's such as Deron (who has not impressed me on the nets), Howard, or CP3.

That does not mean that it was the wrong move but it would have given me pause.

Seeing how they would not pay the extra money for Lin makes me believe that the new "fiscally responsible Dolan " would never have amnestied Amare and eaten 40-60 million.

A team can possibly win without top All Star guards but history shows that it is very unlikely. Of the recent years, only Dallas has done this, though they were much better at the guard position then we are.

After the signing of Chandler, how the heck did they think that we could actually we decent with TD and Landry as our guards? Lin was nowhere on anyone's radar and Shump was an unproven rookie who is/was not much of an offensive player.

I believe its still too soon to tell if they made the right call as far as Stat goes. This season should settle that. The thing is if they had Amnestied Stat instead of Billups they would have lost not one but two starters the next season because Chauncey was out the following year and they didn't know what he would be like after a year off. That might have been part of their reasoning. Stat was just one season removed from his near MVP season. I'm pretty sure after last season they were thinking the same thing you were about using the Amnesty on Stat. If he plays close to how he did before his decline, it might end up being the right move, guess we will find out soon enough.

The way the rest of the league kept abusing our defense and having a coach who wasn't known for making defense as the cornerstone of his system, they probably figured that they had to do something to shore up the front court. I agree 100 percent for the need to have a top tier PG to seriously contend. We don't have that now but maybe Woodson running the point by committee so to speak with Kidd off the bench and Prigioni as well might be good enough to make some waves.

You're right it was a big risk handing the keys to TD. This team had so many holes to fill, they were rolling the dice no matter how they went. They weren't going to fix in one fell swoop. It was a crazy couple of seasons, I think this season is going to settle these questions once and for all.

Good take.

I don't know if it was the right move or not though time will tell. This season will tell us a lot. If Amare sux, then the Tyson signing killed us. If Amare is solid then it was probably a good move. It is all about Amare.

If they did not amnesty CB and sign Tyson and amnestied Amare this summer (would have been a balsy gamble), then they would have wiped 34 million off the books. The only big contract we would have had would have been Melo. Again, I don't think based on the Lin situation that Dolan would have had the stones to do that. And again, if Amare comes out this year and has a solid season, this argument is null and void.

And as you said, if the reason for signing Tyson was to be competitive right away, that was not possible with the guards that we had.

Like I said, they had so many holes to fill, no matter what route they went it was going to leave a hole somewhere else, in this case at PG. With D'Antoni, you figure that the offense would be there, but the defense wasn't for the most part and that was probably behind their decision. Its also why Woodson was hired as an asst.

We also gave MDA no PG which is the most essential part of his offense so in essence, we did set him up to fall on his face.

But it is true - they needed to choose between two evils. No PG, or no defense. Either way was a lose lose and thats why I would have waited it out.

I don't believe anyone thought that TD was going to crater the way he did, that was a collapse of epic proportions. MDA also has to take his share of the blame for not doing a better job of making the most of the talent he had. Trying to turn Melo into a glorified role player didn't help. He also had issues that were beyond his control so its not all on him.

MDA certainly gets blame however, read any article post the Tyson signing and everyone knew that TD was the glaring issue. He did play even worse than expected but he looked pretty bad finishing off the prior season.

This all proves that it is no picnic being a GM as brilliant as we all think we are ...