foosballnick wrote:I believe that Lin's injury was a small meniscal tear to cartilidge in his left knee. I've had this surgery on both knees. The meniscus acts as a buffer in various ways at the Knee joint. Without the meniscus, there would be bone to bone contact and major pain/arthritis. In this operation it is not uncommon for the torn part of the cartilidge to be cut or shaven off, leaving the remaining cartilidge intact (but less overall cartilidge). If the tear is not serious, patients are often up and around within a couple days after the arthoscopic procedure. The rehab can take several months based on building muscle around the knee in order to establish better stability. Believe it or not, the activity I had to wait the longest to resume was Golf....based on the potential torque motion at the knee.

IMO (unprofessional of course).....the doctors probably advised Lin to perform a full rehab prior to resuming basketball activities. Lin probably could have played (especially with a brace).....but given basketball cutting/jumping/stopping activities, and his pending free agency....there was a higher chance of re-injury that he probably did not want to face.

Once the meniscus is operated on, no matter how old you are, it is effectively weaker with a greater chance of recurring injury.

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

He numbers went way down in his last 7 games as a Knick but of course no one wants to talk about that. Why is it that when someone like myself states that Lin is not a lock to be a great PG it's considered hate? The kid put up great numbers for 25 games, got a new coach and was no longer the #1 scoring option and his numbers went way down.

It's the biggest mistake in franchise history yet the kid hasn't played a game in Houston yet. Will it be the biggest mistake if the kid averages 15 and 6 with 4.5 turnovers a game and the Rockets are headed to the lottery?

it's a stupid way to think(not saying your stupid) but when ppl say he's going to remain to be turnover prone and his numbers will go down, it's pretty much indicating he's at his cieling, which is pretty narrow minded..

Why won't ppl start saying he will progress base in what we saw, instead of saying he's not worth the $ base on 25/30 games..

His game will progess but to what point and what exactly did we see? I saw a kid play tremendously well for a few weeks who also turned the ball over a ton. I also saw him get toasted by the Miami Heat, outplayed by Calderon to the point where Shumpert had to guard the guy and Rajon Rondo throw up a sickening triple double. I also saw Deron Williams throw up 38 points the 2nd time around.

Lin lovers just want to harp that Dolan didn't want to pay $14.8 million. Just becuase Dolan can doesn't mean he should have. I mean it's only money right? I guess we should have matched Landry's contract as well since it's only money. People who want to harp that the decision to not sign Lin was 100% personal on Dolan's part are fooling themselves.

IMHO potential is not worth $14.8 million especially when the decison is going to be based on not when but IF he's going to turn into an all star point guard. Is he going to be good as Westbrook, Rondo, CP3 or Nash? Is he going to be as good as Kevin Johnson, Mark Price or even Stephon? Is he the next Stockton or Mark Jackson?

None of us know but the kid is going to be worth $14.8 million 2 years from now or what his celing is. The kid hasn't even played a full season yet people are complaining that it may be the worst move in Knicks franchise history? To me that's pretty narrow minded.

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:I believe that Lin's injury was a small meniscal tear to cartilidge in his left knee. I've had this surgery on both knees. The meniscus acts as a buffer in various ways at the Knee joint. Without the meniscus, there would be bone to bone contact and major pain/arthritis. In this operation it is not uncommon for the torn part of the cartilidge to be cut or shaven off, leaving the remaining cartilidge intact (but less overall cartilidge). If the tear is not serious, patients are often up and around within a couple days after the arthoscopic procedure. The rehab can take several months based on building muscle around the knee in order to establish better stability. Believe it or not, the activity I had to wait the longest to resume was Golf....based on the potential torque motion at the knee.

IMO (unprofessional of course).....the doctors probably advised Lin to perform a full rehab prior to resuming basketball activities. Lin probably could have played (especially with a brace).....but given basketball cutting/jumping/stopping activities, and his pending free agency....there was a higher chance of re-injury that he probably did not want to face.

Once the meniscus is operated on, no matter how old you are, it is effectively weaker with a greater chance of recurring injury.

The injury is what weakens the meniscus. I don't think the surgery actually weakens it. He'd probably be much worse off if he never had the surgery. I think the rest of what you wrote is pretty reasonable though.

Yes.....meant to say Injury weakens it....

Bonn1997 wrote:

Rookie wrote:BTW - MSG stock is up 35.51 +0.35 (1.00%) and outperforming the Nasdaq

It's because the Felton deal was finalized

It was the Brewer signing.

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

He numbers went way down in his last 7 games as a Knick but of course no one wants to talk about that. Why is it that when someone like myself states that Lin is not a lock to be a great PG it's considered hate? The kid put up great numbers for 25 games, got a new coach and was no longer the #1 scoring option and his numbers went way down.

It's the biggest mistake in franchise history yet the kid hasn't played a game in Houston yet. Will it be the biggest mistake if the kid averages 15 and 6 with 4.5 turnovers a game and the Rockets are headed to the lottery?

it's a stupid way to think(not saying your stupid) but when ppl say he's going to remain to be turnover prone and his numbers will go down, it's pretty much indicating he's at his cieling, which is pretty narrow minded..

Why won't ppl start saying he will progress base in what we saw, instead of saying he's not worth the $ base on 25/30 games..

His game will progess but to what point and what exactly did we see? I saw a kid play tremendously well for a few weeks who also turned the ball over a ton. I also saw him get toasted by the Miami Heat, outplayed by Calderon to the point where Shumpert had to guard the guy and Rajon Rondo throw up a sickening triple double. I also saw Deron Williams throw up 38 points the 2nd time around.

Lin lovers just want to harp that Dolan didn't want to pay $14.8 million. Just becuase Dolan can doesn't mean he should have. I mean it's only money right? I guess we should have matched Landry's contract as well since it's only money. People who want to harp that the decision to not sign Lin was 100% personal on Dolan's part are fooling themselves.

IMHO potential is not worth $14.8 million especially when the decison is going to be based on not when but IF he's going to turn into an all star point guard. Is he going to be good as Westbrook, Rondo, CP3 or Nash? Is he going to be as good as Kevin Johnson, Mark Price or even Stephon? Is he the next Stockton or Mark Jackson?

None of us know but the kid is going to be worth $14.8 million 2 years from now or what his celing is. The kid hasn't even played a full season yet people are complaining that it may be the worst move in Knicks franchise history? To me that's pretty narrow minded.

so if no one knows what to expect, why is the money the only thing we talk about..

It's becuase that's what people want to focus on. "Dolan has the money, he's a terrible owner and he could have paid Lin if he wanted to. We deserve for Dolan to give us what we want and we want Lin."

Being a Knicks fan is like being in an abusive relationship and here comes this undrafted, twice waived kid out of nowhere who puts up crazy numbers and get us back into the playoff hunt. We watched every second of every game to see if he could keep it up and keep on delivering W's. The basketball Gods delivered him to us to stop the suffering and we have a young PG who can help us win a Chip. I 100% get it.

I think with the hysteria of Linsanity many of us chose to overlook that he had trouble going left, turned the ball over a ton and was toasted by the few top notch PG's he came across. Once we traded for Felton deep down I knew that Lin was a goner but I held out hope that we would bite the bullet and bring him back.

I wanted Lin back and think he is going to be a good player but I can also understand that $14.8 million is a huge chunk of change to pay to a player that hasn't earned it yet. The Rockets wanted him bad and put the deal together to screw us and it worked.

earthmansurfer wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Dude should quit while he is ahead.

He better be ready to backup that contract.

+1

why, he didn't ask for that money, those idiots gave it to him..

Thats like telling somebody who didn't say a word to back up his trash talking..uh?

Lin has no scapegoat next year. He needs to shut up.

Scapegoat? When has Lin had one? He put up incredible numbers for most of 25 games and people thing he is going to get worse?
When has that happened? When have players (in basketball) put up PER's like Lin and then go downhill? He got praise from Magic Johnson and a host of other greats.
And you expect your word and the other haters here to have any weight? LOL at the hate.

8 million a year for his PER and talents, I take it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Biggest mistake in this franchise's history letting him walk. You worry about year 3 in year 3.

He numbers went way down in his last 7 games as a Knick but of course no one wants to talk about that. Why is it that when someone like myself states that Lin is not a lock to be a great PG it's considered hate? The kid put up great numbers for 25 games, got a new coach and was no longer the #1 scoring option and his numbers went way down.

It's the biggest mistake in franchise history yet the kid hasn't played a game in Houston yet. Will it be the biggest mistake if the kid averages 15 and 6 with 4.5 turnovers a game and the Rockets are headed to the lottery?

it's a stupid way to think(not saying your stupid) but when ppl say he's going to remain to be turnover prone and his numbers will go down, it's pretty much indicating he's at his cieling, which is pretty narrow minded..

Why won't ppl start saying he will progress base in what we saw, instead of saying he's not worth the $ base on 25/30 games..

His game will progess but to what point and what exactly did we see? I saw a kid play tremendously well for a few weeks who also turned the ball over a ton. I also saw him get toasted by the Miami Heat, outplayed by Calderon to the point where Shumpert had to guard the guy and Rajon Rondo throw up a sickening triple double. I also saw Deron Williams throw up 38 points the 2nd time around.

Lin lovers just want to harp that Dolan didn't want to pay $14.8 million. Just becuase Dolan can doesn't mean he should have. I mean it's only money right? I guess we should have matched Landry's contract as well since it's only money. People who want to harp that the decision to not sign Lin was 100% personal on Dolan's part are fooling themselves.

IMHO potential is not worth $14.8 million especially when the decison is going to be based on not when but IF he's going to turn into an all star point guard. Is he going to be good as Westbrook, Rondo, CP3 or Nash? Is he going to be as good as Kevin Johnson, Mark Price or even Stephon? Is he the next Stockton or Mark Jackson?

None of us know but the kid is going to be worth $14.8 million 2 years from now or what his celing is. The kid hasn't even played a full season yet people are complaining that it may be the worst move in Knicks franchise history? To me that's pretty narrow minded.

He did turn the ball over a lot, but his style dictates more turnovers. He was handling the ball a ton and driving a lot as well. Later in the year, his TO's were around 5 - that is one above some all star PG's. Very reasonable for a young guy. I wouldn't harp on that.

Lin was gassed, how many minutes did the kid play? His defense was great, not good, those first two weeks. He just couldn't keep it up. Hey, Deron is an all star and he had a personal vendetta and was unconscious that night. Who can stop him when that happens?

The first two years of salary were reasonable for Lin, actually a bit low if not for the rule. The third year was high. But looking at PG numbers, 8 million a year was not crazy. He would more than pay for it, and we should worry about that 3rd year then. Lot's of possibilities to dump salary. I don't buy that was the reason and we shouldn't be so simple in our analysis.

You don't let a guy who put up that insane PER and was magical walk for nothing. You just don't do it.

Narrow minded is having the answers before they appear. I don't have the answers - I'm basing my argument on a continuation of the past, which is more than likely considering that teams adjusted to Lin, he still mostly kept on going (and was gassed and was over-utilized). Your argument hinges on - "He probably won't keep it up." You know what, I take that gamble that he does as if he doesn't produce, it will be the greatest fall off of talent that anyone has witnessed at the NBA level - (Like a Kevin Maas or Shane Spencer but that was in baseball and happens sometimes due to the difference in sport). It is the 3rd year, one year we are all worried about.

Time will tell...

If the cost were actually $8 million per year the Knicks would have probably matched. If it didn't work out he could have been moved more easily. With a payday of $14.8 million it's nice to say you don't let him walk for nothing but he would be near impossible to move. You can keep beating a dead horse or choose to face the reality of the situation.

PER? Felton's PER with the Knicks was over 18. No doubt that the kid has talent but is he going to be an all star level talent? I'm not betting against him....just don't think that potential equates to a $15 million pay day. You're right, time will tell with Lin.

nehemiah wrote:This argument basically hinges on the OPINION that Lin can't keep up what he was doing. That he was basically "lucky".

It's pretty iffy logic when exceptional talent is hard to find most years. Even Dallas let go of Nash before he had his two MVP years. Dallas wouldn't match the 60-plus million offer. It was the BEST bargain in the NBA that year. My opinion is that this is an even greater mistake.

I don't think anyone said that Lin was lucky....he can obviously play. The Knicks letting Lin go is worse than the Mavs letting Nash go? So is it your OPINION that Lin is going to have a Nash like career after seeing Lin play in 25 games?

toodarkmark wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

nehemiah wrote:This argument basically hinges on the OPINION that Lin can't keep up what he was doing. That he was basically "lucky".

It's pretty iffy logic when exceptional talent is hard to find most years. Even Dallas let go of Nash before he had his two MVP years. Dallas wouldn't match the 60-plus million offer. It was the BEST bargain in the NBA that year. My opinion is that this is an even greater mistake.

I don't think anyone said that Lin was lucky....he can obviously play. The Knicks letting Lin go is worse than the Mavs letting Nash go? So is it your OPINION that Lin is going to have a Nash like career after seeing Lin play in 25 games?

25 games where he WON. 25 games where he put up sick numbers. 25 games that captured imaginations.

So tired of people point out how he only did it in 25 games. He did more in 25 games than Clarence Weatherspoon did in 5 years and we paid him 6 million a year for 5 years back more than a decade ago. AND?

Now where is Mr .470 Small Sample Size when you need him?

I loved Linsanity, only because it happened while he was a Knick. I still like Lin, and hope (almost) that he has something more than a pointless, playoff-less existence down in Houston.

But comparing someone who could have very easily been an NBDL reject to a HOF MVP point guard who makes Lin's passing ability look like someone who, well, got cut from two different loser franchises, is just a bit more over than top than my Melo-is-the-new-BK manlove.

ChuckBuck wrote:

toodarkmark wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

nehemiah wrote:This argument basically hinges on the OPINION that Lin can't keep up what he was doing. That he was basically "lucky".

It's pretty iffy logic when exceptional talent is hard to find most years. Even Dallas let go of Nash before he had his two MVP years. Dallas wouldn't match the 60-plus million offer. It was the BEST bargain in the NBA that year. My opinion is that this is an even greater mistake.

I don't think anyone said that Lin was lucky....he can obviously play. The Knicks letting Lin go is worse than the Mavs letting Nash go? So is it your OPINION that Lin is going to have a Nash like career after seeing Lin play in 25 games?

25 games where he WON. 25 games where he put up sick numbers. 25 games that captured imaginations.

So tired of people point out how he only did it in 25 games. He did more in 25 games than Clarence Weatherspoon did in 5 years and we paid him 6 million a year for 5 years back more than a decade ago. AND?

15-10, Lin's record as a starter. He didn't win 25 games. Only about 7 games or so he captured imaginations, the rest were average or pedestrian.

You are going to break Lin's game down to some simpleton statistics?

Watching Lin play and never looking at stats was more than enough for me. The stats, actually, just support the great player my eyes saw.

If you are going to use the W-L record, there are more responsible party's on the team to blame.

EMS

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

toodarkmark wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

nehemiah wrote:This argument basically hinges on the OPINION that Lin can't keep up what he was doing. That he was basically "lucky".

It's pretty iffy logic when exceptional talent is hard to find most years. Even Dallas let go of Nash before he had his two MVP years. Dallas wouldn't match the 60-plus million offer. It was the BEST bargain in the NBA that year. My opinion is that this is an even greater mistake.

I don't think anyone said that Lin was lucky....he can obviously play. The Knicks letting Lin go is worse than the Mavs letting Nash go? So is it your OPINION that Lin is going to have a Nash like career after seeing Lin play in 25 games?

25 games where he WON. 25 games where he put up sick numbers. 25 games that captured imaginations.

So tired of people point out how he only did it in 25 games. He did more in 25 games than Clarence Weatherspoon did in 5 years and we paid him 6 million a year for 5 years back more than a decade ago. AND?

15-10, Lin's record as a starter. He didn't win 25 games. Only about 7 games or so he captured imaginations, the rest were average or pedestrian.

You are going to break Lin's game down to some simpleton statistics?

Watching Lin play and never looking at stats was more than enough for me. The stats, actually, just support the great player my eyes saw.

If you are going to use the W-L record, there are more responsible party's on the team to blame.

EMS

Dude, get some glasses. Great player? NO. Good player? Yes. Ignore that Lin did most of his damage while dominating the ball. Ignore the massive amount of turnovers and ignore the fact that he struggled when he wansn't the main scoring option. Let me clarify, this is not me hating on Lin it's me pointint out whay many choose to ignore.

+1

Vmart wrote:Jeremy who?

Piven

I love that guy