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Argentina (Knicks PG Prigioni) vs. Team USA: 7/22, Sunday 330pm EST on NBA TV
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EnySpree
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7/23/2012  7:35 AM
I just wanna say....it seemed like Argentina held back at the end and the USA guys were playing hard and desperate. its going to be war when the games count
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misterearl
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7/23/2012  7:39 AM
Exactly Eny

EnySpree wrote:Because that's a basketball story...why would knick beat writers write about basketball?

City Editor: "Hey guys, let's write about the General Manager hiding in the closet."

Writers: "Boss, you da man!"

once a knick always a knick
Markji
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7/23/2012  7:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2012  7:57 AM
I'm getting a little concerned that we haven't officially signed Prigioni yet. I wonder what the hold-up is? Possibly he wants more money???

Here are the stats and playing career highlights of Pablo Prigioni.

Born - May 17, 1977 (age 35)
Listed height - 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m)
Listed weight - 200 lb (91 kg)

Pro career
-Spanish Prince's Cup Champion: (2002)
-Led the Spanish League in steals: (2003)
-3x Spanish King's Cup Champion: (2004, 2006, 2009)
-4x Spanish Supercup Champion: (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008)
-Spanish King's Cup MVP: (2006)
-2x All-Euroleague 2nd Team: (2006, 2007)
-Led the Euroleague in assists: (2006)
-3x Spanish League's Best Point Guard: (2006, 2007, 2009)(Note: Ricky Rubio won best point guard in 2008 and 2010 so Prigioni is in good company and he beat out Ricky in 2009)
-Spanish League Champion: (2008)
-Spanish Supercup MVP: (2008)

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
misterearl
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7/23/2012  7:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2012  7:59 AM
Muchas Gracias

Markji wrote:Just to refresh everyone - here are the stats and playing career highlights of Pablo Prigioni.

Born - May 17, 1977 (age 35)

Listed height - 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m)

Listed weight - 200 lb (91 kg)

Pro career
-Spanish Prince's Cup Champion: (2002)
-Led the Spanish League in steals: (2003)
-3x Spanish King's Cup Champion: (2004, 2006, 2009)
-4x Spanish Supercup Champion: (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008)
-Spanish King's Cup MVP: (2006)
-2x All-Euroleague 2nd Team: (2006, 2007)
-Led the Euroleague in assists: (2006)
-3x Spanish League's Best Point Guard: (2006, 2007, 2009)(Note: Ricky Rubio won best point guard in 2008 and 2010 so Prigioni is in good company and he beat out Ricky in 2009)
-Spanish League Champion: (2008)
-Spanish Supercup MVP: (2008)

Hmmm, 6'3 200, same as "you know who". Argentina played an effective game, despite the fact USA could not miss in the first quarter. Argentina hung close and pulled within 6 points at the end, before they eased off the gas pedal in the final minute.

Markji - Prigioni is not the "athletic freak" that makes scouts drool, but he is efficient and effective. There were some spicy entry passes (that Scola bricked) which will make Amar'es (and Tyson Chandler's) eyes light up.

The Maestro can be trusted to manage our offense.

once a knick always a knick
Markji
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7/23/2012  8:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2012  8:07 AM
misterearl wrote:Muchas Gracias

Markji wrote:Just to refresh everyone - here are the stats and playing career highlights of Pablo Prigioni.

Born - May 17, 1977 (age 35)

Listed height - 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m)

Listed weight - 200 lb (91 kg)

Pro career
-Spanish Prince's Cup Champion: (2002)
-Led the Spanish League in steals: (2003)
-3x Spanish King's Cup Champion: (2004, 2006, 2009)
-4x Spanish Supercup Champion: (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008)
-Spanish King's Cup MVP: (2006)
-2x All-Euroleague 2nd Team: (2006, 2007)
-Led the Euroleague in assists: (2006)
-3x Spanish League's Best Point Guard: (2006, 2007, 2009)(Note: Ricky Rubio won best point guard in 2008 and 2010 so Prigioni is in good company and he beat out Ricky in 2009)
-Spanish League Champion: (2008)
-Spanish Supercup MVP: (2008)

Hmmm, 6'3 200, same as "you know who".

Yeh - he who must not be named.

Argentina played an effective game, despite the fact USA could not miss in the first quarter. Argentina hung close and pulled within 6 points at the end, before they eased off the gas pedal in the final minute.

Markji - Prigioni is not the "athletic freak" that makes scouts drool, but he is efficient and effective. There were some spicy entry passes (that Scola bricked) which will make Amar'es (and Tyson Chandler's) eyes light up.

The Maestro can be trusted to manage our offense.

I watched the first half of the game. Prigioni made some nice passes. He's definitely a pass first PG. His passing reminds me of Jason Kidd.

I added an edit above - Prigioni hasn't officially signed a contract with the Knicks as far as I have heard. I wonder what the hold-up is? Possibly more money????

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
mrKnickShot
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7/23/2012  8:12 AM
Scola sucked

Durant was a freak

that was the difference in the game

martin
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7/23/2012  8:37 AM
Markji wrote:I'm getting a little concerned that we haven't officially signed Prigioni yet. I wonder what the hold-up is? Possibly he wants more money???

something about FIBA rules and probably the fact that he is with his country's Olympic team.

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misterearl
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7/23/2012  8:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2012  8:43 AM
KC: "Do A Little Dance, Make A Little Love, Get Down Tonight, Get Down Tonight..."

Markji - His passing reminds me of Jason Kidd.

Players like Prigioni lend a warm and secure feeling that they understand everything that is going on. Players like him keep their heads up and adjust intuitively, without much wasted effort. While some scout for Bruce Lee quickness, and Jordan-like hops... give The Answer Man the player who has his head in the game at all times. Let the smart guy run the offense.

Prigioni grabbled a few rebounds, made some sweet passes off nanosecond decisions and generally ran things.

Get down tonight

Get down tonight

once a knick always a knick
mrKnickShot
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7/23/2012  11:16 AM
misterearl wrote:Spock: "Interesting"

Not one article, or paragraph of analysis, in the New York press regarding Prigioni and his performance against the USA All Star Team.

Nada.

Here you go.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/23/3177284/a-quick-pablo-prigioni-scouting-report-from-usa-argentina

martin
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7/23/2012  12:10 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
misterearl wrote:Spock: "Interesting"

Not one article, or paragraph of analysis, in the New York press regarding Prigioni and his performance against the USA All Star Team.

Nada.

Here you go.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/23/3177284/a-quick-pablo-prigioni-scouting-report-from-usa-argentina

from the article, which I thought was pretty much spot on:

So, all told, Prigioni's game against the U.S. fell right in line with his reputation. He's neither nimble nor explosive enough (and perhaps never was) to burn point guards off the dribble or prevent them from doing the same on the other end. He uses picks and head fakes brilliantly, though, and needs just a couple steps of penetration to find creative, oblique angles and feed pretty much anyone on the floor. He dishes with restraint and precision, using any available window but swallowing the pass if the window's not there. He'll take and hit a three if you leave him open, but passes up even the openest of driving lanes. I just pretty much described present-day Jason Kidd, so we'll see how those two split minutes and what lineups suit each of them best as the season goes on.
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RonRon
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7/23/2012  1:42 PM
Pablo is a pass first PG, with the ability to penetrate much like Kidd, but they rely on players that can penetrate, move well without the ball, and shooters to spread the floor.
All those players on the Olympic team with him, move well off the ball, use screens well, and Pablo is rewarding the cuttors/players that space the floor with multiple shooters.
We don't have these type of players, which is why I would prefer Delfino/AK47.
I believe you need 2 players at all times, that can penetrate/finish, while our only player is Raymond Felton.

Felton needs is not even that good in terms of facilitating/penetrating, he needs 4 shooters that can spread the floor, while Amare/Tyson Chandler take's away that room.
We currently do not have any players on our roster that moves well off the ball. That is why I would really like to add players like Delfino and AK47, with their ability to defend and all round games.

Tyson Chandler showed he can be good during Linsanity, when he had players that played TEAM BALL, shared the ball, with Novak to spread the floor at the 4, and Lin's penetration.
JJ and Tyson Chandler both set great screens, while JJ is somewhat versatile, but is not a shooter and he still managed to make it work.
His defense with Iman/Tyson Chandler with his ability to make good cuts and get move the ball unselfishly was the difference.

Without penetration and/or dominant lost post presence, we are a 3point shooting team/jump shooting team, and a defensive team with the flaws of Amare, and lack of speed from Kidd/Pablo.
We do not nearly have the players that OKC has, yet, Miami were able to take them out of their games, making them a jump shooting team when they close out the lanes.
With Melo being a best scorer, teams like Heat have the luxury of using Lebron James/Shane Battier to rotate on Melo.
Nets have a Gereld Wallace to focus on defense, while Melo would have to play a big part on both offense and defense which just wouldn't be very effective vs many teams.

Bulls has Taj Gibson to play that lock down role
OKC has Durant to play the 4 which would be a tough cover for many teams
Memphis has a very athletic G/F with Rudy Gay
Washington has Ariza/Singleton to play
Clippers has Odom/Grant Hill
Dallas has Marion
Bucks has Ilyasova/Dunleavey/ their draft picks.


Many teams have that versatile 3/4 that are versatile, and can focus on doing the dirty work, while we don't have that type of player, what I would call the Lebron/Durant type of stoppers.
All of these teams have a legit Centers and other players that are good scorers.

So my point is, without multiple players that can penetrate and break down the defense, and having Melo be our #1 option with ISO plays just would not be to our advantage.
We don't have many roster spots, versatile players, and we still have many holes.

Unless Amare suddenly becomes a dominant low post up presence and moves his feet well to defend the 4's that can hit the 3pointer and play solid defense like JJ.
Amare also needs to be able to hit that shot to space the floor EFFICIENTLY.

Tyson Chandler has shown he can be a threat with cuts in the PnR, when the PF on the team Novak/JJ spreads the floor, or spaces himself well.


As much as our team has improved its depth, our best 5 or starting 5, has not been upgraded.
I still think Amare is a PF that needs to play Center, with versatile G/Fs that have all round games and moves the ball, and that is why he is struggling with Melo/Tyson.
As good at passing as Kidd and Pablo may be, they are not penetrating threats and do not have 4 shooters to space the floor.
So there has to be movement of the ball, good cuts, timing, and very good spacing to make up for it.
But we do not have these type of players, with some low IQ players in majority of our roster.

mrKnickShot
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7/23/2012  1:47 PM
martin wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
misterearl wrote:Spock: "Interesting"

Not one article, or paragraph of analysis, in the New York press regarding Prigioni and his performance against the USA All Star Team.

Nada.

Here you go.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2012/7/23/3177284/a-quick-pablo-prigioni-scouting-report-from-usa-argentina

from the article, which I thought was pretty much spot on:

So, all told, Prigioni's game against the U.S. fell right in line with his reputation. He's neither nimble nor explosive enough (and perhaps never was) to burn point guards off the dribble or prevent them from doing the same on the other end. He uses picks and head fakes brilliantly, though, and needs just a couple steps of penetration to find creative, oblique angles and feed pretty much anyone on the floor. He dishes with restraint and precision, using any available window but swallowing the pass if the window's not there. He'll take and hit a three if you leave him open, but passes up even the openest of driving lanes. I just pretty much described present-day Jason Kidd, so we'll see how those two split minutes and what lineups suit each of them best as the season goes on.

Yes it was. Gonna be interesting to see if he can take some of Kidds minutes. Also, if we have any PG injuries then he is viable insurance.

I was impressed that against the ferocious pressing defense, he only turned it over twice.

RonRon
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7/23/2012  1:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/23/2012  2:23 PM
I think playing Amare as the 6th man, back at Center, he even meshes better than Camby than Tyson Chandler.
But we need multiple shooters, that are athletic at our forwards spots, and they must be able to hold their own/ help at times with Amare's poor defense/rebounding.

Amare would benefit much with the passing ability of Kidd/Pablo, and shooters like JR Smith, Novak, Copeland, Kidd or Pablo.
We are missing that athletic 4 like a Durant/Rudy Gay/ even Ilyasova and another athletic SG/SF like Brandon Rush, that we can use in both our starting lineups and off the bench.


Delfino/AK47

Adam Morrison/Copeland

are the poor versions what we need to make both lineups more efficient.
If we do sign Delfino/AK47 it would also make Novak expendable.

I would love to acquire Brandon Rush at the deadline with JR and throw ins like James White and the 2016 1st round pick.
I feel he is a legit SG/SF that has great size, athletic ability, hits the 3pointer at a good rate, and is a very good defender that can finish games with.

I am not sure if Washington would be interested in parting with Ariza for a salary dump of Kurt Thomas/Novak for Ariza if Singleton improves much this year.
We might have to wait till the off season, on draft night with Novak/ rights to 2013 1st round pick, 3m cash for him.

If we can add Brandon Rush and Ariza, it would allow us to spread the floor, be a top defensive team in the league, be athletic/long/ capable of being good rebounders for fast breaks.
They would multiply our defense and would bring a whole new dynamic to our offense, on both ends.


So that would give us a starting lineup a team of

Felton
Iman/ Brandon Rush
Melo
Ariza
Chandler

Kidd/Pablo
Rush/Iman/ Kidd
Delfino/ Rush/ AK47
Amare /AK47/ Copeland
Amare/Camby

There are many versatile line ups we can use depending on our match ups and we would be top defensive team.

misterearl
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7/24/2012  12:06 AM
Fantasy Island

RonRon wrote:I am not sure if Washington would be interested in parting with Ariza for a salary dump of Kurt Thomas/Novak for Ariza if Singleton improves much this year.
We might have to wait till the off season, on draft night with Novak/ rights to 2013 1st round pick, 3m cash for him.

RonRon - Trevor Ariza is not an answer to any Knicks issue.

So let's look at the skills sets and cut out coveting others teams dreck

Ray Felton - will be a double double machine
Iman - brings defense to match Felton's intensity, a very cool backcourt pair
Melo - conditioned and ready, 28 and 9
Amar'e - re-established bond with Felton, just rebound in double digits baby
Chandler - The Captain anchors the defense

Kidd/Pablo - a beautiful seasoned combination (10 minutes) and consistent change of pace as they bring similar skill sets
JR Smith - John Starks The Sequel
Novak - for three
Kurt Thomas - "don't bring that weak stuff in here"
Camby - The Co-Captain anchors the second shift defense

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Markji
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7/24/2012  6:29 AM
misterearl wrote:KC: "Do A Little Dance, Make A Little Love, Get Down Tonight, Get Down Tonight..."

Markji - His passing reminds me of Jason Kidd.

Players like Prigioni lend a warm and secure feeling that they understand everything that is going on. Players like him keep their heads up and adjust intuitively, without much wasted effort. While some scout for Bruce Lee quickness, and Jordan-like hops... give The Answer Man the player who has his head in the game at all times. Let the smart guy run the offense.

Prigioni grabbled a few rebounds, made some sweet passes off nanosecond decisions and generally ran things.

Get down tonight

Get down tonight

I agree - especially for a backup PG. When I said that His passing reminds me of Jason Kidd., that was a compliment.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
misterearl
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7/24/2012  9:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/24/2012  9:48 AM
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/p/langid/1/newsid/50811/arti.html

VITORIA (Olympics/Liga Endesa) - Now hear this.

Since launching his Spanish career in the 1999-2000 season with Fuenlabrada, Prigioni has been one of the most durable players in Spain as well as Europe, and one of its most creative.

He has been a true conductor of the orchestra for every team that he has suited up for.

Control and respect

If one watches Prigioni during a game, he has just as must control over his teammates as his coach, the great Dusko Ivanovic.

He also has their respect.

"Pablo is a very experienced player and he always brings something extra with his passing of the ball, his defense," said Mirza Teletovic, the sweet-shooting forward from Bosnia and Herzegovina, to FIBA.com. Teletovic first played with Prigioni at Baskonia in the 2006-07 season.

"He's a great character," Teletovic said.

"He tries to play defense as hard as he can and he always motivates players.

"He's very good."

He doesn’t so much run up and down the floor as much as prowl around it.

Prigioni has quick feet and quick hands. As a leader, he is the first one to call out teammates if they make a bone-headed play, as Serbia's Nemanja Bjelica did in the fourth quarter of Baskonia's gritty and determined victory at Valencia Basket last weekend.

Ivanovic didn't need to tell Bjelica anything after he tried to drive from the right wing and turned 360 degrees before throwing the ball wildly into the corner and out of bounds.

Prigioni gave him the tongue-lashing and all Ivanovic had to do was pull the young Serbian off the floor.

There were no hard feelings.

Savvy veteran

The question is, how long can Prigioni continue to play at the highest level?

He really is showing no signs of slowing down.

“I try to work hard every day,” Prigioni said to FIBA.com.

“I try to take care of myself, my body and how I eat, how I sleep.

“I try to do everything to feel good, to try to fight with young players that press me for 40 minutes.

“If I can continue like this, I don’t see any reason to go down, no?”

Eventually, Prigioni will have to stop.

Surely he accepts that?

“Okay, when I’m 40, 42, okay,” he said.

“But when I’m 34, 35, and if you do the correct things, you can stay at the high level.”

Mr Maestro if you please.

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misterearl
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7/24/2012  9:50 AM
Prigioni's agent in the United States, George Bass, said: "I’ve been talking to Glen Grunwald for about four, five years about him.

"This is the year it got done. He’s been very persistent with checking in about Pablo. He’s a very big fan."

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RonRon
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7/24/2012  1:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/24/2012  1:44 PM
misterearl wrote:Fantasy Island

RonRon wrote:I am not sure if Washington would be interested in parting with Ariza for a salary dump of Kurt Thomas/Novak for Ariza if Singleton improves much this year.
We might have to wait till the off season, on draft night with Novak/ rights to 2013 1st round pick, 3m cash for him.

RonRon - Trevor Ariza is not an answer to any Knicks issue.

So let's look at the skills sets and cut out coveting others teams dreck

Ray Felton - will be a double double machine
Iman - brings defense to match Felton's intensity, a very cool backcourt pair
Melo - conditioned and ready, 28 and 9
Amar'e - re-established bond with Felton, just rebound in double digits baby
Chandler - The Captain anchors the defense

Kidd/Pablo - a beautiful seasoned combination (10 minutes) and consistent change of pace as they bring similar skill sets
JR Smith - John Starks The Sequel
Novak - for three
Kurt Thomas - "don't bring that weak stuff in here"
Camby - The Co-Captain anchors the second shift defense

Ariza has good length/versatility/athleticism and is just a solid defender to have, that can play SG, SF, and even some PF's.
Ariza with Tyson Chandler/Camby behind him, would improve our defense, ability to create/finish/defend fast breaks.
We do not have anyone outside of Melo, which needs to conserve his energy/fouls on offense.
Without any athletic SF/PF's, with no "Lebron stoppers", I think Ariza could be available with the $ he makes and with their lack of shooters to spread the floor.
His steals/rebounds and his versatility would give us an option in defending the athletic SF/PF's like Lebron/Durant/Rudy Gay.
His contract ends before 2015 and he makes over 7.5m, right under 8m, and could be a realistic option if Washington wants to save money

With Singleton, John Vesely, as tweeners at the forward spots, that are not good shooters, which we can start with Novak and throw ins to add up for match up salaries.
Depending on how Washington and The East holds up for a possible playoff spot, Ariza could be shipped out especially if Singleton improves much this off season.
At the PF/C spots, Washington is already set with

Nene/Trevor Booker
Kevin Seraphin/OK4

misterearl
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7/24/2012  2:11 PM
MUS: "Be Thankful For What You Got" - William DeVaughn

RonRon - two words

Ronnie Brewer

"diamond in the back, sunroof top, diggin' the scene with the gangsta lean...ooooh, ooooh..."

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misterearl
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7/24/2012  5:43 PM
Si Senior

...lo que sí estoy seguro es que si Pablo llega a jugar 20 minutos en la NBA, dará 12 asistencias por partido. Y con los ojos cerrando y caminando para atrás

"if Pablo plays twenty minutes in the NBA, he'll dish out twelve assists with his eyes closed and walking backwards."

- Claudio Villanueva, Prigioni's agent

Could Pablo move the crowd with a touch pass to Tyson Chandler in perfect scoring position?

Imagine the electricity in the arena the first time the elder Pablo Prigioni drops into his defensive stance against the much younger, "you know who."

once a knick always a knick
Argentina (Knicks PG Prigioni) vs. Team USA: 7/22, Sunday 330pm EST on NBA TV

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