Jmpasq wrote:

Anji wrote:And Kobe is MrK's go to guy when these Melo threads pop up.

I look at a guy like Dirk, he is a Power forward, but has shot under 50% for his career because he is a perimeter player. Clearly the best comparison game wise, why not bring him up???

Pretty much feel like your fitting the facts to your story Mikey when there are many ways to skin a cat. There is zero reason to come at Melo, who is one of the best offensive players in the league, if you want Stat to take more shots.

Im all for Amare taking more shots. We need him to be more involved offensivly if this team is going to be a Top 4 seed

I hope he get's more shots too, knicks are going to need Stat to average 20ppg.

But he isn't the number 1 option and he won't take the most on the team because his offense game is limited.

Melo is better then him because of range, dribble, post up, passing and Ft's. He just has way more tools, which is way he is one of the best int he league.

Anji wrote:And Kobe is MrK's go to guy when these Melo threads pop up.

I look at a guy like Dirk, he is a Power forward, but has shot under 50% for his career because he is a perimeter player that doesn't play above the rim. Clearly the best comparison game wise, why not bring him up???

Pretty much feel like your fitting the facts to your story Mikey when there are many ways to skin a cat. There is zero reason to come at Melo, who is one of the best offensive players in the league, if you want Stat to take more shots.

Dirk.. great scorer. MVP. Elite player. Best "stretch 4" in NBA history.

BUT he won a title.

Lets look at that title year shall we?

Dirk took fewer shots per game in that title year than any other of the previous 10 years
Dirk's FG% that year was a career high .517

So Anji... will Melo, as Dirk has demonstrated (thanks for that) make adjustments to his game? Will Melo shoot less and take higher % shots? Wouldnt that mean he defers to higher % shooters? Such as Amare?

Any other players you want to bring up?

Anji wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Anji wrote:And Kobe is MrK's go to guy when these Melo threads pop up.

I look at a guy like Dirk, he is a Power forward, but has shot under 50% for his career because he is a perimeter player. Clearly the best comparison game wise, why not bring him up???

Pretty much feel like your fitting the facts to your story Mikey when there are many ways to skin a cat. There is zero reason to come at Melo, who is one of the best offensive players in the league, if you want Stat to take more shots.

Im all for Amare taking more shots. We need him to be more involved offensivly if this team is going to be a Top 4 seed

I hope he get's more shots too, knicks are going to need Stat to average 20ppg.

But he isn't the number 1 option and he won't take the most on the team because his offense game is limited.

Melo is better then him because of range, dribble, post up, passing and Ft's. He just has way more tools, which is way he is one of the best int he league.

Please... give me the one trick pony who scores at 54% over the "more versatile and skilled guy" who shoots 47% any day. You really dont get it do you.

you dont win games because you can score "everywhere."

you win games because your shots go it.

mrKnickShot wrote:Fishmike, you make a great argument about supporting casts. You blame Melo for playoffs exits which is for the most part silly and closed minded.

He does not take more shots than Kobe and kobe has had many more options to share with. Of course you need high efficiency scorers to go along with your volume scorers. And those other scorers need moves around the basket other than dunks. Shaq and Gasol were post players and excellent passers out of the double team. Chandler can't do any of that and Amare is not a post player and does not fit with Melo nor would he fit with Kobe.

I have said this many times, Melo is not as good as kobe but put him in the PJax/Shaq offense and he has titles too.

Everyone needs a supporting cast that fits and can take the pressure off your closer. The Knicks had no PG for most of last year and no post players.

So now when all fails you want to blame 1-4 to Miami on Melo without the aforementioned support? While OKC did not fair much better with a far far better cast? C'mon - Unfair and you know it. And yes, when he was in Denver, his supporting cast was weak too and the only season where he had a PG (CB) he went to the WCF. Please tell me the year that his team was favored and was upset - maybe that one year against the clippers but even then, I don't think they were favored.

Can he do better? Of course he can!! He is selfish at times like kobe - just read PJax's book.

Melo and even Kobe was far from Jordan or even Lebron. They are in a league of their own with their eff numbers - granted. But you can still win with players like Melo and Kobe and even PP if you surround them, as you pointed out with the appropriate (HOF) pieces. Not Amare (at this stage), Nene ... He needs High Efficiency good passing post players.

So if your next fall back statement is "but we gutted the team to get him" ...

I want to see the Knicks win. That means Amare starts the offense and Melo finishes it, but people here (you among them I believe) think the offense should go through Melo. That will fail, as it always fails (all we can do is quote history). It failed for Kobe. It will fail for MElo who is half the player Kobe is.

Why not Amare (at this stage). What is the stage? Dude is 18 mos older than Melo. He had one bad year (last). Year before w/o the MVP PG many thought he needed to thrive dude put up 25ppg and shot over 50%. Thats the Amare we need. We get that, we feed the beast and the Knicks will be elite.

If we run the offense through Melo and relegate Amare to jumpers or a few set plays good chance history repeats itself.

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Anji wrote:And Kobe is MrK's go to guy when these Melo threads pop up.

I look at a guy like Dirk, he is a Power forward, but has shot under 50% for his career because he is a perimeter player. Clearly the best comparison game wise, why not bring him up???

Pretty much feel like your fitting the facts to your story Mikey when there are many ways to skin a cat. There is zero reason to come at Melo, who is one of the best offensive players in the league, if you want Stat to take more shots.

Im all for Amare taking more shots. We need him to be more involved offensivly if this team is going to be a Top 4 seed

I hope he get's more shots too, knicks are going to need Stat to average 20ppg.

But he isn't the number 1 option and he won't take the most on the team because his offense game is limited.

Melo is better then him because of range, dribble, post up, passing and Ft's. He just has way more tools, which is way he is one of the best int he league.

define better. Because Amare's teams win more. Amare's team go farther in the playoffs. 40 times in the last 10 years a player has averaged 20ppg on 50% shooting or more.

Please... give me the one trick pony who scores at 54% over the "more versatile and skilled guy" who shoots 47% any day. You really dont get it do you.

you dont win games because you can score "everywhere."

you win games because your shots go it.

First, this is a different Amare then the high flyin PHX Amare and second, you forgot to mention Steve Nash who was the highest efficient and (one of the) top PG's of all time.

Your comparisons are conveniently all over the place.

Amare was an excellent player with a star PG and that fits his game since he is not a real big.

Melo needs more of what Kobe had in real bigs.

As Bip pointed out and I wholly agree, Amare, Tyson and Melo's games just don't compliment each other and though I believe they will win 50 games this season and possibly get to the second round, I don't think they can do much better.

Not bringing in PJax IMHO was a far worse move by Dolan then not bringing back Lin (which I was not fond of either). PJax, I believe could have gotten the most out of this group and while I think Woody will push them hard as is a good coach - he does not the vision and creativity of PJax.

Oh well ... it is what it is. I will root like crazy for my team and its players and hope for the best.

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Fishmike, you make a great argument about supporting casts. You blame Melo for playoffs exits which is for the most part silly and closed minded.

He does not take more shots than Kobe and kobe has had many more options to share with. Of course you need high efficiency scorers to go along with your volume scorers. And those other scorers need moves around the basket other than dunks. Shaq and Gasol were post players and excellent passers out of the double team. Chandler can't do any of that and Amare is not a post player and does not fit with Melo nor would he fit with Kobe.

I have said this many times, Melo is not as good as kobe but put him in the PJax/Shaq offense and he has titles too.

Everyone needs a supporting cast that fits and can take the pressure off your closer. The Knicks had no PG for most of last year and no post players.

So now when all fails you want to blame 1-4 to Miami on Melo without the aforementioned support? While OKC did not fair much better with a far far better cast? C'mon - Unfair and you know it. And yes, when he was in Denver, his supporting cast was weak too and the only season where he had a PG (CB) he went to the WCF. Please tell me the year that his team was favored and was upset - maybe that one year against the clippers but even then, I don't think they were favored.

Can he do better? Of course he can!! He is selfish at times like kobe - just read PJax's book.

Melo and even Kobe was far from Jordan or even Lebron. They are in a league of their own with their eff numbers - granted. But you can still win with players like Melo and Kobe and even PP if you surround them, as you pointed out with the appropriate (HOF) pieces. Not Amare (at this stage), Nene ... He needs High Efficiency good passing post players.

So if your next fall back statement is "but we gutted the team to get him" ...

I dont have a fall back statement. Blame is a strong word for all of Melo's first round exits. All I can do is prove that when you run the offense through guys like Melo or even Kobe you WILL NOT WIN.

I want to see the Knicks win. That means Amare starts the offense and Melo finishes it, but people here (you among them I believe) think the offense should go through Melo. That will fail, as it always fails (all we can do is quote history). It failed for Kobe. It will fail for MElo who is half the player Kobe is.

Why not Amare (at this stage). What is the stage? Dude is 18 mos older than Melo. He had one bad year (last). Year before w/o the MVP PG many thought he needed to thrive dude put up 25ppg and shot over 50%. Thats the Amare we need. We get that, we feed the beast and the Knicks will be elite.

If we run the offense through Melo and relegate Amare to jumpers or a few set plays good chance history repeats itself.

Amare had 1/2 of a good season with the knicks. Missed both playoff series for the most part and as all can see, lacks the explosiveness that he once had and alarmingly lost his jumper. As Bonn pointed out, its not about age necessarily but about mileage.

Lakers offense always went through Kobe (with the use of the tri). As Jax pointed out, the knicks roster is clumsy and pretty ill fitted. Amare was incredible the first half (maybe a bit longer but not much) of last season. He was in decline before Melo got here - we all know and saw that. He also plays more like a 3 in regards to where he needs the ball. If he can come in to camp in great shape and play the way he played the first half of last year, then great - let Melo defer/rely on him more.

I hope that Woody can figure out how to implement a flow that works well for both of them in this scenario. Felton's success with Amare should certainly help him since Amare seems to mostly thrive in the PnR.

And btw, many feel that it is chandler who stifles Amare's game far more than Melo.

Melo had a much better passing year this passed season though it is often ignored (3.6 vs 3.1-career). I really hope that he averages at least 4 assists this year (would love to see 4.5) which is very doable. He is an excellent passer but needs to be a more willing passer and also needs to trust his teammates more though they need to earn it too.

Has MDA, Donny, Gallo, or Lin even been part of winning basketball with New York?

MDA had a losing record in 4 years

Donny had a losing record in 4 years

Gallo part of a losing team in 3 years

Lin only played 35 games then got hurt

If that's really called an ERA, can't wait to see what a dynasty looks like!

NUPE wrote:

arkrud wrote:The Era of Hope is ended.
All questions are answered and all point are set.
Want to say thanks from the bottom of my heart to the players, coaches, and executives who were committed to all I like in pro Sports.
Team game, hard work, good character, camaraderie with the fans and each other.
This things made a winner.
Even Heat with bid 3 has much more of that that Knicks of new Era of Grid and Selfishness which starts now.
Welcome to the Dark Side.

LOL at this drivel. The Donnie era was two years of terrible teams where we intentionally tanked and threw terrible teams together in attempt to land a big free agent. In the third year of Donnie we had Amare, Felton, W. Chandler, Gallo and Mozgov with subpar subs. That was a team destined to miss the playoffs or consistently lose in the first round. At the time we traded or Melo, the Knicks were a whooping two games over .500. In regards to GALLO, he is as inconsistent as he ever was, still.

The Knicks now have: Amare, Melo, T. Chandler (reigning DPOY and averaged about a double double), Smith and Felton starting. It's one of the better frontcourt's in the NBA. The Knicks also have one of the better benches in the NBA. The team as currently built could make a good playoff run.

As for Lin, the Knicks won 12 of their last 17 games with Lin out. Obviously, the claim that the Knicks can't win without Lin is absurd and wrong.

+10000000, nice job NUPE.

People like fishmike will continue to conveniently ignore posts like this because rational coherence does nothing for mindless, trendy, anti-homer-based hate-at-all costs.