Uptown wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Uptown wrote:If the Knicks really didn't want Lin, why even bother with the Bird-Rights hearing? Seems to me the Knicks didn't see this type of contract coming...

that seems hard to believe they couldn't see something odd since houston was pulling the same crud with the bulls. i sure hope the knicks would not have thought some other team was gonna come up with a contract that would be cake to match.

Here's whats even more appalling; while the Knicks were thinking the Rockets and Lin were locked in on that first contract, the Knicks were busy adding more salary: Camby, Kidd, and soon after Felton, then Morey and the Rockets rework the contract for more money.

And one of the deals was with them. Its funny fome posters here defend the Rockets as this savvy organization yet criminalize the Knicks during all the process.

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Uptown wrote:If the Knicks really didn't want Lin, why even bother with the Bird-Rights hearing? Seems to me the Knicks didn't see this type of contract coming...

that seems hard to believe they couldn't see something odd since houston was pulling the same crud with the bulls. i sure hope the knicks would not have thought some other team was gonna come up with a contract that would be cake to match.

Here's whats even more appalling; while the Knicks were thinking the Rockets and Lin were locked in on that first contract, the Knicks were busy adding more salary: Camby, Kidd, and soon after Felton, then Morey and the Rockets rework the contract for more money.

This is a really good point.

So, the Knicks are freaking out about $6M more added to Lin's offer sheet in the final year of the deal. They then went out and added $5M per season for Camby, $3M per for JKidd and $3M per Felton and $1.4M for Kurt Thomas. That's over $12M per season added. Not to mention $3.5M per season for Novak who has one NBA skill.

Knicks are just embarrassed that Houston played them. Or, rather, Dolan is embarrassed.

I've bee saying for a while now. What Lin and the Rockets did ****s on the whole process.

As for your last line, they didn't get played they got conned. There is a difference. And not only by some maverick GM who seems to think he is smarter than everyone else because of his "system"(which has accomplished nothing but a high employee turnover rate in Houston) but by a player they tried to help.

crzymdups wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Uptown wrote:If the Knicks really didn't want Lin, why even bother with the Bird-Rights hearing? Seems to me the Knicks didn't see this type of contract coming...

that seems hard to believe they couldn't see something odd since houston was pulling the same crud with the bulls. i sure hope the knicks would not have thought some other team was gonna come up with a contract that would be cake to match.

Here's whats even more appalling; while the Knicks were thinking the Rockets and Lin were locked in on that first contract, the Knicks were busy adding more salary: Camby, Kidd, and soon after Felton, then Morey and the Rockets rework the contract for more money.

This is a really good point.

So, the Knicks are freaking out about $6M more added to Lin's offer sheet in the final year of the deal. They then went out and added $5M per season for Camby, $3M per for JKidd and $3M per Felton and $1.4M for Kurt Thomas. That's over $12M per season added. Not to mention $3.5M per season for Novak who has one NBA skill.

Knicks are just embarrassed that Houston played them. Or, rather, Dolan is embarrassed.

I've bee saying for a while now. What Lin and the Rockets did ****s on the whole process.

As for your last line, they didn't get played they got conned. There is a difference. And not only by some maverick GM who seems to think he is smarter than everyone else because of his "system"(which has accomplished nothing but a high employee turnover rate in Houston) but by a player they tried to help.

So, let's look at this way:

Say you are at your job. You're underpaid. You ask for a raise. Your company says, the best way to do that is to go out and get another offer, we'll match it (I've had companies do this to me before.)

You get offered $100,000 from another company. You're happy, your old company says they'll match. Then the other company says, "no, you know what make that $150,000." because they want to make sure you'll come to them.

a) it's a good play by the other company. b) what would you do, say "no, i am honor bound to accept the first offer and take that back to my original company." if you say you'd do that, i think you're not being honest. you'd take the highest offer you could get and show it to your old company.

and they'd be pissed. but they'd have made the mistake - they could have just offered you a contract in the first place. if they value you, they re-sign you at $150,000. they don't really have a right to be mad.

You left out two important parts. My company's board of directors set a cap on what I can be offered outright but said if I get a larger contract then that my company is authorized to offer that to me.

You also left out the part where after I go back to my company and tell them of this offer and I am told in good faith they are gonna keep me, I return to my competing company and tell them they need to up the ante or they will lose me.

Is it within my rights? Yes. Is it legal? Yes. Is it a total bastard move that breaks the spirit of honest negotiating? Absolutely.

mrKnickShot wrote:I go to my boss and say I want a raise I am worth X. My boss says - who says? I say, thats what I can get on the market. My boss says prove it/show me the offer.

I go get an offer, my boss fair enough and that they will match it.

I go back to the other company and say that my company was willing to match the offer, lets raise it and see if they still match.

I go back to my company and say that I have a new offer, my company would tell me to Go FUK myself.

THAT IS DEFINITELY HOW IT WOULD WORK IN ANY CORPORATE ENVIRONMENT (IMHO)

my concern is that the FO's involved, lin and his agent know for sure what has transpired, and they are not talking. we can say for sure there is 1 official offer and it isnt what many thought it was based on "reports". doesnt mean what many think happened did happen. knicks may very well think lin just isnt that good for woodson's system and are taking the time to find how to not match and avoid any backlash.

sidsanders wrote:

Uptown wrote:If the Knicks really didn't want Lin, why even bother with the Bird-Rights hearing? Seems to me the Knicks didn't see this type of contract coming...

that seems hard to believe they couldn't see something odd since houston was pulling the same crud with the bulls. i sure hope the knicks would not have thought some other team was gonna come up with a contract that would be cake to match.

Actually, I think the only reason to explain why we didn't offer him the 3 yr $15M up front is that they expected he would fetch LESS on the market. Other than that there was absolutely nothing to lose from making that goodwill gesture. Grunwald gambled and lost.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

RonRon wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lin wants us to believe he wants back and he didn't understand how signing that contract could be detrimental to the Knicks??..Then fire your agent because he didn't fully explain the terms of the contract to you ...But we know he won't do that because he fired his other agent for this guy who is playing hard ball..

Fact is Lin wants his own stage to continue Linsanity...He needs the fans to follow so mouthpieces will say anything to keep the innocence to Linsanity going...

It is not that Lin wants his own stage, it is that Melo wants the be the only stage, and it is evident that that style will not work.

So force a trade to a team that Amare is playing MVP ball and plot to get Chris Paul here...Makes lots of sense..

how's that chris paul plot working out for you, melo? since the knicks are in the luxury tax with or without lin and cannot do a sign and trade while in the luxury tax.

chris paul is never coming here.

knicks had jeremy lin which was as close as they were gonna get to a chris paul type and they let him go for nothing.

Prior to Chandler coming here, that was the game plan...Knicks didn't have the pieces for a trade with the Hornets...

why was that? could that have anything to do with melo selfishly demanding to be traded to the knicks instead of signing with them in the off-season?

Lin is the only smart guy to get the most money he can cause he went to Harvard right..Lin is smart and Melo is selfish...Say what u want about Melo, he never pretended it wasn't about the money...Also when you do the right thing to "help" your employer's bottom line, let me know...

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

RonRon wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lin wants us to believe he wants back and he didn't understand how signing that contract could be detrimental to the Knicks??..Then fire your agent because he didn't fully explain the terms of the contract to you ...But we know he won't do that because he fired his other agent for this guy who is playing hard ball..

Fact is Lin wants his own stage to continue Linsanity...He needs the fans to follow so mouthpieces will say anything to keep the innocence to Linsanity going...

It is not that Lin wants his own stage, it is that Melo wants the be the only stage, and it is evident that that style will not work.

So force a trade to a team that Amare is playing MVP ball and plot to get Chris Paul here...Makes lots of sense..

how's that chris paul plot working out for you, melo? since the knicks are in the luxury tax with or without lin and cannot do a sign and trade while in the luxury tax.

chris paul is never coming here.

knicks had jeremy lin which was as close as they were gonna get to a chris paul type and they let him go for nothing.

Prior to Chandler coming here, that was the game plan...Knicks didn't have the pieces for a trade with the Hornets...

why was that? could that have anything to do with melo selfishly demanding to be traded to the knicks instead of signing with them in the off-season?

Lin is the only smart guy to get the most money he can cause he went to Harvard right..Lin is smart and Melo is selfish...Say what u want about Melo, he never pretended it wasn't about the money...Also when you do the right thing to "help" your employer's bottom line, let me know...

wait, so lin is supposed to help the bottom line but melo is exempt from that?

i was making a joke about how people expected lin to "not be selfish" and take a lesser deal so it was better for the knicks cap.

No, don't twist it...U said Melo was selfish for requesting a trade and not waiting for the end of the season which means a smaller contract ...Melo wasnt pretending to be naive to the situation either..Maybe u like that kind of thing..

biglove44 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

JamesLin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

PresIke wrote:umm...knicks said to lin 'let the market set your price'

he did...

they balk (maybe) and he's being naive and selfish?

They balk now because he actually may have used them matching in good faith as leverage for a higher deal. If this was the original deal, I bet they match with little argument.

But here's the fact. The Knicks never once matched any deal. They just let it drag on and on and on.. and still dragging...

What deal were they supposed to match? The most they could offer was 3 or 4 years $24 mil. Were they supposed to officially match the "verbal" offer sheet that no one can agree on if it is binding or not?

When an organization tells a player to find his market value, they have to know what the consequences are. If they don't, they're a terrible organization. They made it known to the masses before Lin even had contact with the Rockets that they were going to match him. A verbal agreement is not binding; you are naive to believe if it is and it has nothing to do with loyalty. The media ran with 5/5/9, that was not the official offer. The one official offer is what got signed.

The Knicks could have prevented this had they offered more than the QO. The Knicks didn't offer their max, because they probably thought he wasn't going to be valued that high. That's their fault.

You said that Lin told the Knicks about the 5/5/9 offer, got them to verbally agree to it, and then Lin told the Rockets to increase the offer to 5/5/14.9. Did Lin's camp or the organization report that? No. You can't be taken seriously if you're getting your information from the nypost or nydailynews. Also, why would Lin go back to the Knicks with an unoffical, unsigned 5/5/9 offer? They weren't even negotiating with him. They said, here, we're extending the QO, find your market value.

Michael Kay reported on his show today that the organization and people who work for the organization have been completely mum on the issue. He said, if beat writers/media personalities are saying that the know the Knicks won't match, it's false. No one knows what is going on with the management.

Wow. OK. I will start from the top...did I say the verbal agreement was binding? No. Reading is fundamental but reading comprehension is obviously an advanced form of rocket science. I have said before and have the opinion of..now this is the part you should pay attention.. "WHILE LIN AND THE ROCKETS MAY HAVE HAD THE LEGAL RIGHT TO RENEGOTIATE, IT WAS DIRTY TO DO IT THE WAY THEY REPORTEDLY DID IT". Please bookmark this. It is the same as how Lebron left Cleveland in that he could do it
that way but there was just something not right about HOW he did it.

Actually the official verbal, agreed in principle offer was 5/5/9. As I have stated before. Sometimes media outlets get years wrong because of option years or are off by a million or so. his is a totally different contract structure and form. In this day and age no media outlet would have got it this far off.

You have your conclusions on why they let him set the market I have mine. But it may be as simple as that is what Glen Grunwald does. I've read before that is what he does so it can be as simple as that.

I am a little confused. The same media you just told me not to follow you are gonna use as a source to tell me his take on the situation is he don't know? Yeah. Um well played.

As for your little ****-fit about where my info comes from. You can turn it sideways and stick it up your ass. Way way more avenues of info then those rags. Before you lecture me, you may want to consider something. You get your info from the same places I get mine. You aren't an insider. You aren't connected. It is ALL speculation.

Jmpasq wrote:

JamesLin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

PresIke wrote:umm...knicks said to lin 'let the market set your price'

he did...

they balk (maybe) and he's being naive and selfish?

They balk now because he actually may have used them matching in good faith as leverage for a higher deal. If this was the original deal, I bet they match with little argument.

But here's the fact. The Knicks never once matched any deal. They just let it drag on and on and on.. and still dragging...

They never matched the original agreed upon deal becasue it wasnt delivered. Lin was busy redoing it so the Knicks wouldnt match or being greedy 1 or the other. I really dont think he is greedy im just using the words that are labeled on Melo all the time when LIN is doing the exact same thing

exactly, this has been reported many, many times but, guys either just skim for whatever jumps out at them or they pick and choose parts of the articles that concur with their own bias.