mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

callmened wrote:Major ouch felt towards bonn...but i agree with the guys...jr is way better than fields...not only cant fields shoot...but he DOESNT shoot...hes a 6-5 jjeffries..and he doesnt evennplay defense that well

The ONLY reason i wont give up on him is cuz i think he and lin hv a connection. He can find fields for easy baskets...fields is an opportunistic player who scores on garbage pts..hopefully he learns how to shoot

Ironically if jr had learned how to shoot less or at least when to shoot then hed be an allstar...

Talking with most casual fans about what factors contribute to winning in basketball though is unfortunately as pointless as seeking an expert opinion on a health problem from the lay public rather than a doctor.

So why do you bother?

Illogically getting sucked in at times. It's a hallmark of anyone with 20K posts!

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:JR is all flash, no substance on offense and mediocre on defense unless it's a contract year. Fields is the better rebounder, passer, and more efficient scorer. Fields put up very good numbers even though no one cares. Per 36 min: 11.0 PPG on 46% shooting, 5.3 rbs as an SG, 3.2 assists, 1.9 TOs, and 1.5 stls. People devalue Fields because they overvalue flashiness and inflation of PPG via inefficient scoring.

No we devalue Fields because he can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet. Isn't a shooting guard supposed to be able to hit an outside shot? Bonn get your head out of stats and actually watch a game with your eyes.

As Billy Bean said (paraphrased), "It's OK to watch the game but you have to make sure you don't let your eyes deceive you."

How much success have the As had? About as much as the Knicks with "starphucking". Don't let your eyes deceive you but don't outsmart yourself with numbers and theory.

Making it to the world series with a payroll of $40 mil is the same as going a decade without winning a playoff game with one of the highest payrolls in the league? You're getting desperate here. Did OKC and the Knicks have comparable playoff success this year? BUT imitation is the best form of flattery. Because of the A's, almost every baseball team now employs sabermetricians. If you don't believe me, listen to Brian Cashman, the Steinbrenners, and other baseball GMs and owners who rely on sabermetricians. I'm still waiting for the day other teams decide to imitate the Knicks' starphucking.

WAIT A SECOND BONN! Do your research before calling me desperate. When did the As make the world series? They've done NOTHING of note except FAIL miserably in the playoffs with a low payroll for 2 seasons. They haven't sniffed the playoffs in many seasons now. Sabermetrics is great, but no team has won a title by just employing sabermetrics when building a roster. It helps make better decisions when spending, but the teams that won still spent a lot of money, whether on offense or pitching.

And what is your point about OKC and NYK?

Your entire post made no sense.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

callmened wrote:Major ouch felt towards bonn...but i agree with the guys...jr is way better than fields...not only cant fields shoot...but he DOESNT shoot...hes a 6-5 jjeffries..and he doesnt evennplay defense that well

The ONLY reason i wont give up on him is cuz i think he and lin hv a connection. He can find fields for easy baskets...fields is an opportunistic player who scores on garbage pts..hopefully he learns how to shoot

Ironically if jr had learned how to shoot less or at least when to shoot then hed be an allstar...

Talking with most casual fans about what factors contribute to winning in basketball though is unfortunately as pointless as seeking an expert opinion on a health problem from the lay public rather than a doctor.

So why do you bother?

Illogically getting sucked in at times. It's a hallmark of anyone with 20K posts!

Sabermetrics are important though far more important in baseball where stats and production are far more quantifiable.

However, unlike you - I believe that these smarty's still watch the games.

Bonn watches the games....when they're played out on film in major motion picture Moneyball.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

callmened wrote:Major ouch felt towards bonn...but i agree with the guys...jr is way better than fields...not only cant fields shoot...but he DOESNT shoot...hes a 6-5 jjeffries..and he doesnt evennplay defense that well

The ONLY reason i wont give up on him is cuz i think he and lin hv a connection. He can find fields for easy baskets...fields is an opportunistic player who scores on garbage pts..hopefully he learns how to shoot

Ironically if jr had learned how to shoot less or at least when to shoot then hed be an allstar...

Talking with most casual fans about what factors contribute to winning in basketball though is unfortunately as pointless as seeking an expert opinion on a health problem from the lay public rather than a doctor.

So why do you bother?

Illogically getting sucked in at times. It's a hallmark of anyone with 20K posts!

Sabermetrics are important though far more important in baseball where stats and production are far more quantifiable.

However, unlike you - I believe that these smarty's still watch the games.

Actually, it's the exact reverse: the sabermetrics have much more validity in basketball than in baseball. People have an amazing amount of investment in dis-proven ideas here - yours above being just one of them.

You're right, MSG, that the As lost to the Yankees rather than making the world series during the Moneyball era. It's ironic that the Yankees have utilized the As sabermetrics approach now though. They're in the position to do what the As were doing but better because they have more money.

Sabermetrics is great, but no team has won a title by just employing sabermetrics when building a roster.

I think he brings great energy off the bench but hopefully we add another shooter so he doesn't have to shoot 10-12 times a night

helloharv wrote:I think this was expected , he opts out but gets an extra 350,000 by us resigning him and I don't think it effects our other money situation for free agents.

I think he brings great energy off the bench but hopefully we add another shooter so he doesn't have to shoot 10-12 times a night

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:
Actually, it's the exact reverse: the sabermetrics have much more validity in basketball than in baseball.

They do not! Please explain how and why and why it has yet to be adopted in basketball. I am sure that they have seen Moneyball.

Gonna be interesting to see how they figure out how Kobe was such a low pct scorer and will go down as one of the greatest players of all time.

Oh right ... Win Shares and Wins Produced which you still cannot explain hahahaha

Now you're just making stuff up. I've explained everything you've asked about WS and WP; you just don't have the background to understand it.
Berri discusses the issue of sabermetrics in baseball vs. basketball in his books. Basketball stats are more stable across seasons for individual players (including when players switch teams) than any baseball stats are for players. And more importantly, WP scores explain more of the variance in wins in basketball than any sabermetrics do in baseball.
Your questions about basketball are easily understood once you realize that the understanding of basketball stats now by most GMs and fans is roughly where it was fifteen years ago in baseball.

Here - enjoy this great read about how Berri gets it so wrong:

http://ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/how-wins-produced-fails-in-being-the-magical-assessor-of-player-value/

AnubisADL wrote:I think some people should look around the league at other SGs. JR Smith > Nick Young.

Better than nick young yes. Young is a 39% shooter from the field. A better fit than belinelli, courtney lee or gerald/Danny green NO. those guys are all efficient shooters something jr will never be because he has the skills to be a top 5 SG but makes terrible decisions with the ball. Oh and those guys will come a lot cheaper than JR