Anji wrote:

RonRon wrote:
Jeff McDonald: Former Sun Boris Diaw, on difference between Spurs' offense and Mike D'Antoni's: "Popovich is still not asking guys to take crazy shots." Twitter

Boy Diaw really said that??? Maybe he needs a lesson in SSOL too!

Oh sh!t , its about to get dramatic

Bonn1997 wrote:Yesterday's Celtics win further proves that MDA ball doesn't work.

Celtics won, did I miss something?

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Sorry Nix, my point had nothing to do with the roster and I've heard excuses for the poor decisions he's made during games, too many excuses. Its one thing to be a player's coach but after a point it crosses the line into laissez-faire. I don't believe you can sit back and watch a player do something over and over which is putting your team in a hole and not say something.

Of course I'm judging him on his stint here, he was here for four years. I've watched too many games where his indecision or bad decisions helped lose the game. One can argue that there is only so much blame that can be put on the coach with this roster and that's true, but I don't hear any blame at all being put on the coach, just the roster.

I gave him a pass for the first two seasons (he deserved it) but that doesn't mean that MDA wasn't responsible in part for their record over those first 2 years. A good coach knows how to motivate his players, and calls them out when they're under performing. He made TD his punching bag but others got a pass. Letting the players feel free to play their game is fine when they're playing it well but when they're not you sit them. That's why Woodson's "you suck, you sit" mantra and holding players accountable got them to 18 wins a lot faster. It wasn't just about Melo because MDA was making the same mistakes before Melo got here. There was some improvement this season in how he reacted to the other team, but not enough.

Waiting until a game is out of reach to call a time out has nothing to do with being a player's coach. He did that too many times to count. If D'Antoni wants to take a team to the finals with his SSOL philosophy he is going to have to do a better job of implementing it.

Please show me another coach with a roster that was full of short term contracts. Guys that were playing for their next contract with another team cuz they all knew that this team was clearing space for 2010!!! You really want to make it seem like this was just any old normal situation where a coach inherits a bad team but works hard to make the best of it and the players are also buying in because they feel they've got a shot to stick??? That's is not what we had here in the 1st 2 years and in the 3rd year we had a bunch of young guys who had to read their names in the paper every day for months!!!

Please stop trying to make this seem like it was a normal situation when it was anything but that. I can't think of a team where a coach was hired KNOWING he was gonna lose for 2 years while the team was constantly trimming down and selling off so they could clear cap for a big FA market. No attempt was made to fix real problems cuz they didn't want to make any commitments to players. Tell me how that's a situation primed for a coach to win or easily make coaching decisions, or have his players actually buy into what he's selling?

What we saw was not a coach put in a position to excel but rather to stumble and second guess and scramble to try and make something work. Then his big reward was to get to coach a player that is the antithesis of his style and with a big lame duck sign on his back and an actual NBA Head Coach that is best friends with the GM on his bench. Man you have a strange sense of what makes for a healthy coaching situation if you think any of that wouldn't effect any top coach. Look at how things went for SVG! Turmoil is never good for a coach in a lame duck scenario.

I don't know Nix, the reason I avoid these discussions with you about MDA is because you are unable to concede that MDA has made any mistakes in his tenure as coach. Every coach makes tactical errors at times, some more than others.

You're right, when looking at his overall record, the roster shuffling has to be factored in. No argument here. What I'm not buying and I never will is that this gives him a blanket pass for being too often a lousy tactician and motivator. Too many games where the Knicks came out flat, didn't play hard on both ends of the court.

I don't care if the roster turns over every Sunday. You let a lead get too big and lose the game because you didn't call a timeout to stop the bleeding, its on the coach. When a player jacks up one bad shot after another and you don't tell him to try something else (like taking it to the rim), its on the coach. When the other team changes their strategy and you don't respond fast enough, its on the coach. When you won't adapt your strategy to the roster you have, its on the coach.

Sometimes the roster isn't good enough to beat a better team and sometimes a coach makes the wrong decisions and doesn't get the most out of what he has. Both were the case with MDA. You are arguing that it was all on the roster. I'm just not buying that.

There were long enough stretches in any of those season where his ability as a tactician and coach could be evaluated. The roster wasn't turning over so much that it became impossible to tell if he was making the right decisions on the floor. Every answer to why the Knicks played poorly can't be "roster moves". Its a copout Nix.

I was happy that MDA got hired, I really thought we had a shot with the plan they laid out, I wanted him to succeed. But it was hard to miss that he wasn't always the best coach on the floor, too often for my liking he wasn't and that's why I thought it was time for a change. Will Woodson do better? Damned if I know but I think he's off to a good start.

Couldn't have said it better, except for the hiring MDA part.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yesterday's Celtics win further proves that MDA ball doesn't work.

Celtics won, did I miss something?

nykshaknbake wrote:I think every team ideally would like ball movement and easy shots and be able to run and fniish in transition. But you have to rebound and defend to open those opporotunities up. You also have to have alot of patience and be familiar with where your teammates will be. These are more important than what label or system used.

That said MDA cannot coach a team to achieve those things that does not have a HOF PG and at least 2 all stars surrounding him. I think he is a good theory guy in an ivory tower but doesn't draw up many plays or adjust to the game, prepare for opponenets or motivate players or do alot of things other coaches excel or at least are competent at. He would make a passable college coach maybe where you don't see the same teams over and over and where a system can dominate.

If you get to the WCF's twice clearly you did a good job prepping your team to win.

If you win 62 games and are in the playoffs every year then you're doing something right in terms of motivating your players. He may not be the best coach on the bench, but what he did to get his teams ready to play at a high level can't be refuted.

When Felton was here the Knicks ranked 5th in the league in offense and they fell to 7th after the Melo deal with CB trying to learn it on the fly!!! You don't need a All Star HOF PG to make this offense work.

No matter how you guys try to dismiss what the guy does, it's been shown that if you simply give him a PG that can run the offense he doesn't need an All Star to win games. That's what was so surprising about Linsanity. That team was winning with a Neophyte PG and Role players. No STAT or Melo and it looked pretty good considering they had no time to really prepare.

Give me a coach that has been proven to be able to maximize talent so long as you give him a decent PG and i'll take that every time. Give him a top defensive C and his defense actually works, which so many said it didn't but this was the exact same D he's been using, but with better defensive talent. Tyson, Shump and Jared play it at a high level.

AS Bip has said over and over, you have to support a coach rather than go against what he's trying to do or not support him. Ainge didn't kick Doc to the curb when EVERYONE was saying Doc was horrible and needed to go. Rather he brought in what the guy needed to win. Now everyone is saying Doc's a genius again. FUNNY how that works.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:I think every team ideally would like ball movement and easy shots and be able to run and fniish in transition. But you have to rebound and defend to open those opporotunities up. You also have to have alot of patience and be familiar with where your teammates will be. These are more important than what label or system used.

That said MDA cannot coach a team to achieve those things that does not have a HOF PG and at least 2 all stars surrounding him. I think he is a good theory guy in an ivory tower but doesn't draw up many plays or adjust to the game, prepare for opponenets or motivate players or do alot of things other coaches excel or at least are competent at. He would make a passable college coach maybe where you don't see the same teams over and over and where a system can dominate.

If you get to the WCF's twice clearly you did a good job prepping your team to win.

If you win 62 games and are in the playoffs every year then you're doing something right in terms of motivating your players. He may not be the best coach on the bench, but what he did to get his teams ready to play at a high level can't be refuted.

When Felton was here the Knicks ranked 5th in the league in offense and they fell to 7th after the Melo deal with CB trying to learn it on the fly!!! You don't need a All Star HOF PG to make this offense work.

No matter how you guys try to dismiss what the guy does, it's been shown that if you simply give him a PG that can run the offense he doesn't need an All Star to win games. That's what was so surprising about Linsanity. That team was winning with a Neophyte PG and Role players. No STAT or Melo and it looked pretty good considering they had no time to really prepare.

Give me a coach that has been proven to be able to maximize talent so long as you give him a decent PG and i'll take that every time. Give him a top defensive C and his defense actually works, which so many said it didn't but this was the exact same D he's been using, but with better defensive talent. Tyson, Shump and Jared play it at a high level.

AS Bip has said over and over, you have to support a coach rather than go against what he's trying to do or not support him. Ainge didn't kick Doc to the curb when EVERYONE was saying Doc was horrible and needed to go. Rather he brought in what the guy needed to win. Now everyone is saying Doc's a genius again. FUNNY how that works.

Didn't Chauncey start for D'Antoni on his 14-36 Denver team? I thought he was familiar with D'Antoni and his philosophy.

Yea, he had 2 solid point guards in Nick Van Exel and Chauncey Billups in Denver and bombed out after a single season coaching. The guy hasn't done anything in this league without Steve Nash. Steve Nash on the other hand, has had individual success and team success before D'Antoni in Dallas and after D'Antoni left as well.

You could partly blame his non defensive players, but is overall thought process made no sense whatsoever

Solace wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:I think this thread proves that nobody on this board really has an understanding of what the SSOL offense is.

SSOL = chuck threes from half court and just stay on that side of the court - don't bother with defense. Amiright?

that's what it looks like to me

RonRon wrote:The Spurs have incorporated the theories of SSOL in to their system. They are the leagues best 3point shooting team by % and making the most.
They move the ball very well, with penetration, good spacing, and some post presences in Duncan, Diaw, Blaire, and Splitter.
But they run the PnR, very effectively and share the basketball, while utilizing every player on the floor. Only Ginobili, takes bad shots, as he has the green light to do so.
It is alright to have 1 player to not be afraid to shoot the ball and picking spots to shoot poor shots, because he uses it to open up the game for him as and others down, as the defenders will actually defend these attempts. They have changed from their "Twin Tower, old school theories" to the theories of "SSOL".

Give Poppavich, much credit, as he has adjusted, and reshaped the theories of his Spurs. It took much patience and time to develop his role players and for them to understand each of their roles, and establish an identity. They were swept last year, but the continued development of this system with the players, became crucial, as they they have developed to be good players on a great system. They run different defensive schemes and they truly are the "Money Ball" of the NBA, with elite coaching, 3 aged vets, many young role players, and have picked up some great acquisitions with Captain Jack and Diaw. I think Splitter is one of the most under rated players in the league, he is a solid double double, with good all round game and size, with the ability to start for many teams. He is playing a 8-9th man role, but has never once complained about is part of a reason why they are by far the deepest team in the league, with the most chemistry, ball movement, and utilizing all players on the court as weapons.

Spurs should win it this year.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yesterday's Celtics win further proves that MDA ball doesn't work.

Celtics won, did I miss something?

Yeah, the 76ers lost. That is MDA's fault.

You know the 76ers won last night and game 7 is Saturday right?

OOOOPS! I looked at the box score wrong. In that case, the Celtics' loss proved that MDA ball doesn't work.

the only thing proven here is that you're one of those guys that does not WATCH any of the games and instead gets all his info from blogs and box scores.

That would actually be a better way to judge the players than intuition. I watch about half the Knicks games and a few minutes here and there of other teams for entertainment, not to try to assess the players. I've never hidden from that.

Billy Bonn of Moneyball! You remind me of Billy Beane of Oakland A's Moneyball fame, look at stats and box scores without watching what actually happens in the games, and making sound determinations like their factual and correct.