nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix, I think it is hard to find because it doesn't exist. D'Antoni generally doesn't criticiZe players and he definitely isn't critical of his stars. He doesn't break that bond so to speak at least publicly. But to suggest that he feuded with Amare because he wanted Amare to play better defense is far fetched in my opinion. When Amare endorsed Porter I believe he said he had never been taught to play defense or something in that regard. Amare saying it was mostly his fault yielded him a 100 million dollar contract. If you can find anything that says D'antoni called Amare out for his lack of d and that was why they feuded post it please.

Oh I know that this was a source of their strife, because STAT had nothing else in his game that MDA could be angry with him about except Defense and Rebounding, which are his weaknesses. I posted the fact that MDA did have defensive assistant named Marc Iavaroni, who did in fact teach STAT defense!!! Perhaps you didn't read that. Everyone else on the team did in fact defend!!! It's a lie that MDA didn't have a defensive system. In fact as my previous post suggests Suns fans knew that STAT sucked on D and that they defended better when he didn't play and they had KT in there instead of him.

We've got years of proof that STAT has been a poor defender, so that you don't have to suspend belief to see that. STAT doesn't accept his own responsibility for his poor D. How many coaches does he have to have before he can say that he's been coached defense? How many good defensive teammates does he have to have before he can tap one on the shoulder and ask for tips? Marc Iavaroni, Terry Porter, Alvin Gentry, Dan D'Antoni and Mike Woodson and STAT still sucks on D!!! Is that MDA or him???

I will keep looking for the article, tho I'm positive that you won't find any direct quotes from MDA cuz as you say he's not that kind of guy. Whereas STAT threw MDA under the bus, MDA didn't do that, even tho STAT's poor D sabotaged MDA's chances to win more. Here is an excellent article from the 05 season when the Suns went to the WCF's without STAT. It provides an excellent case study of STATS negative impact on the defense as opposed to how the team did without him. We saw a similar situation with the Knicks, only difference is that here MDA had Jared and Tyson to man the middle which made his style of defense even more effective.

Every Play Counts: The Phoenix Suns Defense

NBA Statistical Analyst Kevin Pelton

by Kevin Pelton, 1/31/05

In "Every Play Counts," 82games.com's Kevin Pelton focuses on one player or team in a single game, looking to explain how and why they succeed or fail. Naturally, one game isn't everything, but the results can be fascinating. Also see Michael David Smith's original "Every Play Counts" at FootballOutsiders.com.

When I first set out to do an Every Play Counts on the Phoenix Suns' defense, I wasn't concerned with the opponent. Any nationally-televised game that I could TiVo would do. Lo and behold, that game was Jan. 20 against the Los Angeles Lakers and Kobe Bryant, which meant two days after it was played and a day after I broke down the tape, it gained a lot more significance when Bryant followed up his 37-point outing in Phoenix by dropping 81 points on the Toronto Raptors. My main goal is still to figure out how the Suns have made such a dramatic improvement on the defensive end of the court this season, but we'll also take a look at how Phoenix was able to, at minimum, hold Bryant in check.

As I've said in the past, the goal of Every Play Counts isn't so much to determine whether a team or player is successful or not as it is to determine why they succeed or fail. The first task is better done using a more long-term view, as one game is not a sufficient sample size. So let's start off by looking at what Donald Rumsfeld would term our "known knowns."

We know that the Suns were a below-average defensive team a year ago. Phoenix was 17th in the league in Defensive Rating, allowing 107.0 points per 100 possessions, and the Suns d was torched by the San Antonio Spurs, who averaged 108.2 points per game in defeating Phoenix in the Western Conference Finals four games to one. We know that the Suns prioritized defense over the off-season, trading forward Quentin Richardson to New York for veteran big man Kurt Thomas and signing perimeter stopper Raja Bell as a free agent. We know that Phoenix's plan to play Thomas at power forward was blown up when Amaré Stoudemire underwent microfracture knee surgery in October, moving Thomas to center and eventually Boris Diaw to power forward.

We know that the Suns have posted the NBA's fourth-best Defensive Rating thus far this season, cutting their points allowed per 100 possessions to 103.6. We know they've done this in most unorthodox fashion; looking at Dean Oliver's Four Factors, the Suns rank outside of the NBA's top 10 in effective-field-goal percentage defense (12), turnover rate (18) and defensive rebounding (15). Much of of their defensive success, then, can be traced to a single factor: keeping opponents off the free-throw line. Phoenix leads the NBA in this category, with opposing teams averaging one made free throw for every five field goals attempted against the Suns (league-wide, the average is about one for every four).

We know that the plus-minus statistics on this site single out two players as key to the Phoenix defense: Diaw and highly-regarded defender Shawn Marion. The Suns are 8.4 points per 100 possessions better on D with Diaw on the court, 4.0 better with Marion.

Got all that? Let's take a look at what I saw, starting with Dean Oliver's defensive statistics. To briefly summarize, the categories are FM (forced misses/blocks), FTO (forced turnovers/steals), FTS (missed free throws where the player in question committed the foul), DFGM (field goals defended/3-pointers) and DFTM (made free throws). "Team" refers to plays which were not defended by one specific player:

Name         FM/B  FTO/S  FTS DFGM/3  DFTM
------------------------------------------
Nash        5      1  /1       2  /1  
Bell       14      2        1  8  /4   3
Thomas      6                  1       4
Diaw        6  /1  1  /1       2       5
Marion      8.5/2  3  /2       8       4
Barbosa     1      1           1  /1
Jones       4
House              1  /1
------------------------------------------
Team        2.5    1           6  /1

To take the analysis one step further, I've calculated some composite numbers based on the raw data: effective field-goal percentage allowed, points given up, possessions defended, Defensive Rating (points per 100 possessions), possessions faced per 40 minutes and the percentage of possessions where I marked the player as providing "help defense."

Name        eFG%  Pts   Pos  DRtg Pos40 Help%
---------------------------------------------
Nash        .357    5   8    62.5   8.9  .250       
Bell        .455   23  26    88.5  26.5  .038  
Thomas      .143    6   9    66.7  14.7  .222
Diaw        .250    9  11    81.8  13.8  .364
Marion      .485   20  21.5  93.0  19.5  .209
Barbosa     .750    3   3   100.0   3.9  .000
Jones       .500    8   8   100.0  33.3  .375   
House      1.000    2   2   100.0   3.3  .000
---------------------------------------------
Team        .765   13   9.5 136.8

What stands out to me here? Well, the number of possessions faced by Bell leaps off the page. Traditionally, defenses are built from the inside out; the post players face the most possessions, guards handling only a few. The Phoenix defense was keyed by wing players Bell and Marion (who did see considerable time at power forward). In Bell's case, that's because he was defending Bryant (more on that later). In Marion's case, it shows his value as a team defender -- but also a certain weakness defending one-on-one. Big men Diaw and Thomas were both effective in terms of the possessions they did handle, and no one player was particularly victimized from the Lakers.

So what are the Suns doing so differently than everyone else? ESPN commentator Steve Jones mentioned their pressure, but the brief explanation I've heard of why Phoenix's defense improved after a slow start (a key to why I wanted to take a deeper look) indicated the Suns have been playing more man-to-man and eschewing trapping. I did see Phoenix "digging down" with a help defender coming to double-team the post on a number of occasions, but I wouldn't say they trapped a great deal more than other teams.

Instead, what I saw was in some ways the opposite. It appears to me that the Suns put less pressure on the ball than any other NBA team. With the exception of the Bell-Bryant matchup, Phoenix defenders were continually at least an arm's length away from the player with the ball. Suns defenders rarely ventured outside the 3-point line, which made me think of this wonderful explanation of Washington State University Coach Dick Bennett's "pack-line defense" I recently watched. The system calls for defenders to stay within an imaginary line two feet inside the 3-point line, and I saw Suns players doing something similar ... except for one enormous difference -- Bennett's system calls for heavy ball pressure.

In practice, what does the Suns' lack of pressure do? It makes Phoenix much better at containing the basketball than their peers. The Suns' defensive players, with the possible exception of Thomas, are notable for their quick feet. Playing a step off of their opposing number allows them to stay between them and the basket at almost all times, which forces opposing teams to stay on the perimeter and keeps them out of the paint -- which is, in truth, vulnerable because Marion is Phoenix's only shot-blocker. At the same time, by playing off their playerrs, Suns defenders -- who are, with the notable exception of Nash, very "long" -- are always in position to give help from the perimeter when one of their teammates is beaten. This is very different from the traditional NBA "funnel" defense, which directs all drivers towards a big man (or two), and explains why the Suns have more balanced help defense percentages than the Detroit and San Antonio defenses I looked at earlier this month.

The Suns' unorthodox style shows up a couple of places in the statistics. One, naturally, is in terms of keeping teams off the free-throw line. Not only does Phoenix's system keep teams out of the paint, where most fouls are committed, it also keeps them from being called for touch fouls on the perimeter under the new rules interpretations I discussed for SI.com last week. The other is in terms of opponent assists.

Earlier this season, SI.com's Kelly Dwyer mentioned the Suns had the largest differential between their assists and their opponents' assists in the league. This led a reader to wonder, "What would a team do to ‘prevent’ opponent assists?"

Well, the answer is you don't let teams drive and kick, and nobody does that better than the Suns. Phoenix's opponents have assisted on just 44.9% of their baskets, which is not only the lowest mark in the NBA, it's the lowest mark in NBA history - and by a wide margin. The only previous team in NBA history to have opponents assist on less than half of their baskets was the immortal 1978-79 San Diego Clippers, whose opponents handed out assists on 49.5% of their baskets. (The Spurs would also break this record if the season ended today, allowing assists on 48.2% of their baskets. San Antonio and Phoenix finished 1-2 in the NBA in that order last season, indicating to me this reflects something meaningful and is not merely random.)

Something else I was looking for is whether the Suns tend to switch more picks than most teams, which would make sense given that Diaw and Marion are so versatile. This was a poor game to get a read on that issue, because the Lakers ran many of their screen-rolls with power forward Lamar Odom, and the vast majority of teams will switch these plays. I did see Diaw switch out onto guards a number of times in Sunday's Suns game against the Seattle SuperSonics, but overall it doesn't appear the Suns switch that much more than most other teams.

Where the Phoenix defense is vulnerable is the low post, which isn't surprising given that the 6-9 Thomas is their tallest rotation player and the 6-8 Diaw and 6-7 Marion often play together in the middle. To stop quality post players, the Suns are forced to double-team, creating open looks on the perimeter. As good as Marion is defensively -- and I would rank him with almost anyone in the league in terms of help defense -- he is often overmatched amongst power forrwards down low, which explains why his Defensive Rating was the worst of the Phoenix starters and why his opponent statistics don’t reflect an All-Defense-caliber player.

Now, let's look at how the Suns defended Bryant. What I've done here is constructed a traditional box-score (more or less) with Bryant's evening divided up into who was responsible for each shot/turnover:

Name    FGM FGA  3M 3A  FTM FTA  TO PTS
---------------------------------------
Nash     0   .5  0   .5   0  0    1   0
Bell     9 21.5  4  9.5   2  2    2  24
Thomas   0  2    0  0     0  0    0   0
Diaw     0  1.5  0  1     3  3    0   3
Marion   2  5.5  0  0     4  4    0   8
Team     1  2    0  1     0  0    1   2
---------------------------------------
TOTAL   12 33    4 12     9  9    4  37

That's about as many shots as you'll see one player take against one specific defender in one game; Bell was on Bryant for all but a quick rest for the last three minutes of the first quarter, when Marion had the defensive assignment. (Bryant also sat out just over seven and a half minutes, most at the start of the second quarter.) For the most part, Bell did an exemplary job. He is an extraordinarily physical defender in the Bruce Bowen mold, frustrating offensive players into several technical fouls this season. Bryant joined that list, earning a T after Bell drew a second offensive foul on him in the third quarter.

Bell did a commendable job of turning Bryant into a jumpshooter and giving him few easy looks aside from a couple of scores in transition. Bryant shot just nine free throws, and those mostly came when he was fouled while shooting jumpers. Bell also drew a pair of offensive fouls on Bryant, and a recent study on this site indicates that Bell has drawn more offensive fouls than any other player in the NBA. (The Suns lead the league in this regard, which is probably related to their desire to contain the ball and play a step off ballhandlers. This enables Suns defenders to position themselves in front of the ballhandler and take charges when appropriate.)

CrushAlot wrote:Nix I see another article and even things in bold face but I see nothing where D'Antoni called Stoudemire out for a lack of defense or any reference to the fact that D'Antoni felt Amare didn't play good defense and that caused strife between them. If I missed that sentence please quote it. Also, if you could include the link to the article in the future I could look back and see if I could find something that validates the point you are trying to make.

What I don't understand is how you can think that there was some other reason that MDA and STAT had issues. Like what? It can't be anything offense related as there wasn't anything wrong with the Nash/STAT PNR or STAT's developing midrange game. In truth the ONLY thing that STAT routinely sucked at was his defense and at times poor rebounding. This is why I keep posting all of this anecdotal evidence because it's really the one thing that STAT was vocal about after MDA left, BECAUSE STAT was getting blasted for his poor D and laid the blame on MDA.

Do you understand that sequence of events? STAT made several disparaging comments about MDA not focusing on D, because he was looking to deflect from his own culpability. Even by the time Alvin Came around it was still an issue and they tried to say that STAT had finally improved his defensive effort under Alvin. STAT came out praising him, despire the fact that STAT felt Terry Porter was gonna focus the team on D and that would solve his problems. That didn't happen.

Now that you've seen STAT and watched his horrid defensive habits, do you not see what could possibly cause MDA to get angry? Those matador moves STAT does haven't just started happening. He's been doing it for years!!! But you go ahead and keep pretending that MDA and STAT argued over some other mysterious issue.

AnubisADL wrote:

blkexec wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Carmelo Anthony has achieved nothing in New York. He is on the same level as Marbury right now in turns of success. We still have not won a playoff game. He deserves criticism regardless of "Getting us to the playoffs". Are the expectations so low even with this team that simply making the playoffs is enough?

Not true....Marbury is a champion now! He now has his own freaking statue and is showered with love from the BEIJING DUCKS! While Melo continues to be showered with criticism his entire career!

The problem starts by calling Melo a superstar. If all you are good at is putting the ball in the hole, you're just another role player like Novak. The problem is that Melo thinks hes a star, and the NBA / peers puts him in the star category.

My definition of a superstar, you have to have a special skill surrounded by above average skills. Melo is a solid complimentary player, but can not carry a team. I really don't know what his special skill is....But I do not this, the other basketball skills thats needed to be a superstar, is not above average. The most important one is making your teammates better.

For example....He shoots 7-22, trying to make tough shots over 3 people....Fall down and complain to the refs, while his man is catching alley opps on the other end. Thats not making your team better. Thats not playing team ball. Thats not playing both ends. Thats not leadership. This is why Wilson Chandler was my favorite player....He plays both ends, and doesn't cry to the refs while his man is dominating.

I'm glad Woodson is calling him out about his weight. If Melo doesn't want to hold himself accountable, gotta luv coaches like Woodson who's not afraid to challenge his stars. Something MDA can learn from....

Melo is a superstar. This has already been proven. The guy was making the playoffs his ENTIRE career in the HIGHLY competitive West were you needed an above .500 record to get in. The guy has played with all types of guards Ander Miller, Allen Iverson, Chauncey Billups, etc. All 3 of those guards have different styles and. Melo's teams always got to the playoffs even when guys like Kenyon Martin (Near Max Contract) and Nene were sitting on the bench in suits. Lets not take his play out of context. The East was a huge joke for the last decade.

So Melo goes 7-22 and has to forces some shots. Did you expect Miami to give him open looks? YI suppose Melo should defer to guys like Steve Novak and JR Smith. Lets not pretend Melo is playing with a young Ray Allen or Peja Stojakovic. Melo was playing with guys who are bench players on other teams.

Maybe Melo should be more like Lebron and play hot potato with the ball like he did against Dallas in the NBA finals.

Melo could stand to slim down but realistically he isnt going to have Durant's or Amare's physique.

Without its superstar Denver has still managed to make the playoffs the last two years.

"SuperStar" has different meanings for different people I guess.

In a short sample Denver seems to not be any worse for the trade and we don't seem any better.

Jury is still out. In between we have a "Star" to fawn over.

Anji wrote:Vulture going to be vultures. Only thing the knicks can do is keep building.

Looking Forward to next season.

Ditto AnJi!

Why do we keep crying over spilled milk?

This is what we now have. As Coach Woody has said, "Things gotta change".

Hopefully he'll be back to implement that change. I believe Melo and the Knicks can and will improve.

I think we can ALL agree that the team needs improvement. It can start with Melo, but doesn't end there.

Looking forward NOT back, yesterday is gone forever. You can't undo it, but can learn from it.

Hopefully, those valuable lessons will carry the team forward to continue to build brighter future and a roster that can go deep into the playoffs and contend for a chip.

We'll see.

Go Knicks!

CrushAlot wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix I see another article and even things in bold face but I see nothing where D'Antoni called Stoudemire out for a lack of defense or any reference to the fact that D'Antoni felt Amare didn't play good defense and that caused strife between them. If I missed that sentence please quote it. Also, if you could include the link to the article in the future I could look back and see if I could find something that validates the point you are trying to make.

You know full well that there will not be a DIRECT quote of MDA saying any such thing, that doesn't mean that it's not true and there were articles written that made this statement. It will take me some time to relocate them, but I did post something about this once a while back.

What I don't understand is how you can think that there was some other reason that MDA and STAT had issues. Like what? It can't be anything offense related as there wasn't anything wrong with the Nash/STAT PNR or STAT's developing midrange game. In truth the ONLY thing that STAT routinely sucked at was his defense and at times poor rebounding. This is why I keep posting all of this anecdotal evidence because it's really the one thing that STAT was vocal about after MDA left, BECAUSE STAT was getting blasted for his poor D and laid the blame on MDA.

Do you understand that sequence of events? STAT made several disparaging comments about MDA not focusing on D, because he was looking to deflect from his own culpability. Even by the time Alvin Came around it was still an issue and they tried to say that STAT had finally improved his defensive effort under Alvin. STAT came out praising him, despire the fact that STAT felt Terry Porter was gonna focus the team on D and that would solve his problems. That didn't happen.

Now that you've seen STAT and watched his horrid defensive habits, do you not see what could possibly cause MDA to get angry? Those matador moves STAT does haven't just started happening. He's been doing it for years!!! But you go ahead and keep pretending that MDA and STAT argued over some other mysterious issue.

We had a great debate about whether D'Antoni didn't hire a defensive coach and instead hired his brother. I even posted articles that said this. Then you posted an article about the hiring of Marc Iavoroni and it ended the argument because you were right. I think you are wrong in this case but if you can post something from either of them that says that their strife was because D'antoni called out Amare for a lack of d I will go with that.

Nix these are your words.

One thing to remember is that the reason MDA and STAT had to have a meeting before he signed is because MDA and STAT had a falling out about STAT refusing to play D.

Personally, I hated the D'Antoni hire but he was supposed to help bring in guys from 2010 big free agent. The fact that he had to have a reconciliation meeting with a guy that couldn't have his contract insured and was the only big name to sign in NY pissed me off. I have never heard or read anything that backs this up and your posts from the Suns forum haven't changed that for me.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix these are your words.

One thing to remember is that the reason MDA and STAT had to have a meeting before he signed is because MDA and STAT had a falling out about STAT refusing to play D.

Personally, I hated the D'Antoni hire but he was supposed to help bring in guys from 2010 big free agent. The fact that he had to have a reconciliation meeting with a guy that couldn't have his contract insured and was the only big name to sign in NY pissed me off. I have never heard or read anything that backs this up and your posts from the Suns forum haven't changed that for me.

It took a long time, but I did find the article I was talking about. I makes 100% sense given the other things I've found from that time about STAT.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-d-antoni-irons-out-past-issues-with-stoudemire-1.2078792

Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.

The conclusion was that D'Antoni wouldn't want to deal with Stoudemire again and Stoudemire probably didn't want to work with D'Antoni again. But what has become obvious as the free-agency process has begun is that both may very well need each other.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/amare-stoudemire-a-rocket-the-rockets-will-try-but-come-up-short/

According to my insider, the Suns aren’t exactly thrilled with the fact that Stoudemire wanted Mike D’Antoni fired last year, but pines for him now that he realizes D’Antoni was a perfect fit for his game.

The Suns are also said to be concerned with how Stoudemire’s knee is going to hold up over the long term thanks to his micro-fracture surgery. Do you think they are really all that crazy about giving an extension to a player who is always unhappy with his head coach and who has had microfracture surgery in the recent past?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns020509

With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.

Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more to be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline.

I also wanted to add back in this other tidbit:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5353932

On Sunday, D'Antoni wanted to assure Stoudemire that he believes he is a terrific player and that he's 100 percent behind the Knicks' push to bring him to New York, sources said.

Stoudemire has told those close to him that much of the tension between the two was his fault, citing his youth and immaturity when he entered the league fresh out of high school. Stoudemire has said he's matured to the point that he now realizes D'Antoni was only trying to make him a better player, according to sources

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix these are your words.

One thing to remember is that the reason MDA and STAT had to have a meeting before he signed is because MDA and STAT had a falling out about STAT refusing to play D.

Personally, I hated the D'Antoni hire but he was supposed to help bring in guys from 2010 big free agent. The fact that he had to have a reconciliation meeting with a guy that couldn't have his contract insured and was the only big name to sign in NY pissed me off. I have never heard or read anything that backs this up and your posts from the Suns forum haven't changed that for me.

It took a long time, but I did find the article I was talking about. I makes 100% sense given the other things I've found from that time about STAT.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-d-antoni-irons-out-past-issues-with-stoudemire-1.2078792

Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.

The conclusion was that D'Antoni wouldn't want to deal with Stoudemire again and Stoudemire probably didn't want to work with D'Antoni again. But what has become obvious as the free-agency process has begun is that both may very well need each other.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/amare-stoudemire-a-rocket-the-rockets-will-try-but-come-up-short/

According to my insider, the Suns aren’t exactly thrilled with the fact that Stoudemire wanted Mike D’Antoni fired last year, but pines for him now that he realizes D’Antoni was a perfect fit for his game.

The Suns are also said to be concerned with how Stoudemire’s knee is going to hold up over the long term thanks to his micro-fracture surgery. Do you think they are really all that crazy about giving an extension to a player who is always unhappy with his head coach and who has had microfracture surgery in the recent past?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns020509

With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.

Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more to be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline.

I also wanted to add back in this other tidbit:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5353932

On Sunday, D'Antoni wanted to assure Stoudemire that he believes he is a terrific player and that he's 100 percent behind the Knicks' push to bring him to New York, sources said.

Stoudemire has told those close to him that much of the tension between the two was his fault, citing his youth and immaturity when he entered the league fresh out of high school. Stoudemire has said he's matured to the point that he now realizes D'Antoni was only trying to make him a better player, according to sources

Good work; I thought I remembered reading all of that a while ago.

They both stink without Nash so who cares

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix these are your words.

One thing to remember is that the reason MDA and STAT had to have a meeting before he signed is because MDA and STAT had a falling out about STAT refusing to play D.

Personally, I hated the D'Antoni hire but he was supposed to help bring in guys from 2010 big free agent. The fact that he had to have a reconciliation meeting with a guy that couldn't have his contract insured and was the only big name to sign in NY pissed me off. I have never heard or read anything that backs this up and your posts from the Suns forum haven't changed that for me.

It took a long time, but I did find the article I was talking about. I makes 100% sense given the other things I've found from that time about STAT.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-d-antoni-irons-out-past-issues-with-stoudemire-1.2078792

Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.

The conclusion was that D'Antoni wouldn't want to deal with Stoudemire again and Stoudemire probably didn't want to work with D'Antoni again. But what has become obvious as the free-agency process has begun is that both may very well need each other.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/amare-stoudemire-a-rocket-the-rockets-will-try-but-come-up-short/

According to my insider, the Suns aren’t exactly thrilled with the fact that Stoudemire wanted Mike D’Antoni fired last year, but pines for him now that he realizes D’Antoni was a perfect fit for his game.

The Suns are also said to be concerned with how Stoudemire’s knee is going to hold up over the long term thanks to his micro-fracture surgery. Do you think they are really all that crazy about giving an extension to a player who is always unhappy with his head coach and who has had microfracture surgery in the recent past?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns020509

With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.

Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more to be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline.

I also wanted to add back in this other tidbit:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5353932

On Sunday, D'Antoni wanted to assure Stoudemire that he believes he is a terrific player and that he's 100 percent behind the Knicks' push to bring him to New York, sources said.

Stoudemire has told those close to him that much of the tension between the two was his fault, citing his youth and immaturity when he entered the league fresh out of high school. Stoudemire has said he's matured to the point that he now realizes D'Antoni was only trying to make him a better player, according to sources

Good work; I thought I remembered reading all of that a while ago.

They both stink without Nash so who cares

That's not true! MDA can easily have success with a GM that understands who he is and works with him. STAT is still a horrid defender, but he's shown he can still be a very efficient scorer even without Nash. Nash is the perfect player for both, but they can have success with other similar players. If Melo came back and bought in and Lin stayed healthy I think MDA could have found a lot of success. This team finally had the defensive big he never had and Lets remember it was MDA that chose Shump and Jared to be major parts of the defense. MDA has always liked quick and long defenders that can cover a lot of ground.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix these are your words.

One thing to remember is that the reason MDA and STAT had to have a meeting before he signed is because MDA and STAT had a falling out about STAT refusing to play D.

Personally, I hated the D'Antoni hire but he was supposed to help bring in guys from 2010 big free agent. The fact that he had to have a reconciliation meeting with a guy that couldn't have his contract insured and was the only big name to sign in NY pissed me off. I have never heard or read anything that backs this up and your posts from the Suns forum haven't changed that for me.

It took a long time, but I did find the article I was talking about. I makes 100% sense given the other things I've found from that time about STAT.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-d-antoni-irons-out-past-issues-with-stoudemire-1.2078792

Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.

The conclusion was that D'Antoni wouldn't want to deal with Stoudemire again and Stoudemire probably didn't want to work with D'Antoni again. But what has become obvious as the free-agency process has begun is that both may very well need each other.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/amare-stoudemire-a-rocket-the-rockets-will-try-but-come-up-short/

According to my insider, the Suns aren’t exactly thrilled with the fact that Stoudemire wanted Mike D’Antoni fired last year, but pines for him now that he realizes D’Antoni was a perfect fit for his game.

The Suns are also said to be concerned with how Stoudemire’s knee is going to hold up over the long term thanks to his micro-fracture surgery. Do you think they are really all that crazy about giving an extension to a player who is always unhappy with his head coach and who has had microfracture surgery in the recent past?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns020509

With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.

Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more to be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline.

I also wanted to add back in this other tidbit:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5353932

On Sunday, D'Antoni wanted to assure Stoudemire that he believes he is a terrific player and that he's 100 percent behind the Knicks' push to bring him to New York, sources said.

Stoudemire has told those close to him that much of the tension between the two was his fault, citing his youth and immaturity when he entered the league fresh out of high school. Stoudemire has said he's matured to the point that he now realizes D'Antoni was only trying to make him a better player, according to sources

Good work; I thought I remembered reading all of that a while ago.

They both stink without Nash so who cares

That's not true! MDA can easily have success with a GM that understands who he is and works with him. STAT is still a horrid defender, but he's shown he can still be a very efficient scorer even without Nash. Nash is the perfect player for both, but they can have success with other similar players. If Melo came back and bought in and Lin stayed healthy I think MDA could have found a lot of success. This team finally had the defensive big he never had and Lets remember it was MDA that chose Shump and Jared to be major parts of the defense. MDA has always liked quick and long defenders that can cover a lot of ground.

Haha - just wanted to hear it one more time.

Thanks for that - I almost forgot how you felt.

LOL! At this point, there probably isn't anything left to discuss. You do a good job of knowing when to let things go. I tend to say the same thing and elicit the same response from people dozens of times before realizing it would make more sense to just let it go.

So Bonn, how do you feel about the Melo trade? How about the Amare signing?

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nix these are your words.

One thing to remember is that the reason MDA and STAT had to have a meeting before he signed is because MDA and STAT had a falling out about STAT refusing to play D.

Personally, I hated the D'Antoni hire but he was supposed to help bring in guys from 2010 big free agent. The fact that he had to have a reconciliation meeting with a guy that couldn't have his contract insured and was the only big name to sign in NY pissed me off. I have never heard or read anything that backs this up and your posts from the Suns forum haven't changed that for me.

It took a long time, but I did find the article I was talking about. I makes 100% sense given the other things I've found from that time about STAT.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-d-antoni-irons-out-past-issues-with-stoudemire-1.2078792

Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.

The conclusion was that D'Antoni wouldn't want to deal with Stoudemire again and Stoudemire probably didn't want to work with D'Antoni again. But what has become obvious as the free-agency process has begun is that both may very well need each other.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/02/amare-stoudemire-a-rocket-the-rockets-will-try-but-come-up-short/

According to my insider, the Suns aren’t exactly thrilled with the fact that Stoudemire wanted Mike D’Antoni fired last year, but pines for him now that he realizes D’Antoni was a perfect fit for his game.

The Suns are also said to be concerned with how Stoudemire’s knee is going to hold up over the long term thanks to his micro-fracture surgery. Do you think they are really all that crazy about giving an extension to a player who is always unhappy with his head coach and who has had microfracture surgery in the recent past?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns020509

With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.

Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more to be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline.

I also wanted to add back in this other tidbit:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5353932

On Sunday, D'Antoni wanted to assure Stoudemire that he believes he is a terrific player and that he's 100 percent behind the Knicks' push to bring him to New York, sources said.

Stoudemire has told those close to him that much of the tension between the two was his fault, citing his youth and immaturity when he entered the league fresh out of high school. Stoudemire has said he's matured to the point that he now realizes D'Antoni was only trying to make him a better player, according to sources

Good work; I thought I remembered reading all of that a while ago.

They both stink without Nash so who cares

That's not true! MDA can easily have success with a GM that understands who he is and works with him. STAT is still a horrid defender, but he's shown he can still be a very efficient scorer even without Nash. Nash is the perfect player for both, but they can have success with other similar players. If Melo came back and bought in and Lin stayed healthy I think MDA could have found a lot of success. This team finally had the defensive big he never had and Lets remember it was MDA that chose Shump and Jared to be major parts of the defense. MDA has always liked quick and long defenders that can cover a lot of ground.

Haha - just wanted to hear it one more time.

Thanks for that - I almost forgot how you felt.

LOL! At this point, there probably isn't anything left to discuss. You do a good job of knowing when to let things go. I tend to say the same thing and elicit the same response from people dozens of times before realizing it would make more sense to just let it go.

So Bonn, how do you feel about the Melo trade? How about the Amare signing?

I love both! How do you feel? :-)

I think Amare was a great pickup. Just seeing how gutsy he was to show up today makes me love him even more.

We traded the next 40 years of the knicks future for Melo - to me, its hard to approve of such carelessness

If we had MDA we would never have gotten swept by the heat. Do you know why?