fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lin will help... he will make the Knicks much better. This talk about injury concern and signing someone like Felton INSTEAD of Lin is insane. Lin is an international sensation and his jersey outsells Kobe. He's the Knicks starting PG until he plays worse than Douglas did.

Lin will be good here, if not very good. If the lineup of Lin/Shump/Melo/Stat/Chandler stays healthy for the next couple years Lin will be one of the better PGs in the league.

That being said Miami's swarming D totally took him out of his game last time, so its hard to see a healthy Lin even now being ready to push the Knicks above the Heat

May be not push the Knicks above the Heat this year, but Lin is young and so is Shumpert, they could have made this series more interesting, and help our front court. Hopefully next year.

I just wanted Lin to have this experience, Shump too... even if its a sweep. I want those guys to see and feel first hand what playoff bb is and how great the Heat are. Thats the ceiling. Not some "important" game in April because guys mailed it in and now they *must win*

Since we traded all our assets and have limited ability to improve the future really lies with Shump and Lin. If those two can become high caliber NBA starter and I think they can we can yet compete for a title. If they are just average starters than the Knicks will be the Hawks. Go the playoffs, maybe win a series, but most likely be one and done each year.

That’s exactly my mind set; our future will really depend on how good our young back court (Lin and Shumpert) develops. I also like Josh for the future; I think his basketball IQ is high, play hard and can shoot the three, though he must improve his conditioning, I think he can be a player.

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lin will help... he will make the Knicks much better. This talk about injury concern and signing someone like Felton INSTEAD of Lin is insane. Lin is an international sensation and his jersey outsells Kobe. He's the Knicks starting PG until he plays worse than Douglas did.

Lin will be good here, if not very good. If the lineup of Lin/Shump/Melo/Stat/Chandler stays healthy for the next couple years Lin will be one of the better PGs in the league.

That being said Miami's swarming D totally took him out of his game last time, so its hard to see a healthy Lin even now being ready to push the Knicks above the Heat

May be not push the Knicks above the Heat this year, but Lin is young and so is Shumpert, they could have made this series more interesting, and help our front court. Hopefully next year.

I just wanted Lin to have this experience, Shump too... even if its a sweep. I want those guys to see and feel first hand what playoff bb is and how great the Heat are. Thats the ceiling. Not some "important" game in April because guys mailed it in and now they *must win*

Since we traded all our assets and have limited ability to improve the future really lies with Shump and Lin. If those two can become high caliber NBA starter and I think they can we can yet compete for a title. If they are just average starters than the Knicks will be the Hawks. Go the playoffs, maybe win a series, but most likely be one and done each year.

You know what the problem with Knicks fan is all this past losing has given them a loser mentality. All I hear is how good the heat are and how bad everyone on the Knicks are. There ain't no Micheal F'ing Jordon out there. I see a Heats team that hasn't won shyt. Where is the championship they lost last year. Stop creating mental barriers. Miami Heat are a good team but they can be beat.

The first game was a total BS game the Refs completely hijacked that game in the Heat favor. Second game was what an average on the road game is like in the NBA. The Knicks are going to be fine they will take game three. And get take the proper steps to make this into a series.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lin will help... he will make the Knicks much better. This talk about injury concern and signing someone like Felton INSTEAD of Lin is insane. Lin is an international sensation and his jersey outsells Kobe. He's the Knicks starting PG until he plays worse than Douglas did.

Lin will be good here, if not very good. If the lineup of Lin/Shump/Melo/Stat/Chandler stays healthy for the next couple years Lin will be one of the better PGs in the league.

That being said Miami's swarming D totally took him out of his game last time, so its hard to see a healthy Lin even now being ready to push the Knicks above the Heat

May be not push the Knicks above the Heat this year, but Lin is young and so is Shumpert, they could have made this series more interesting, and help our front court. Hopefully next year.

I just wanted Lin to have this experience, Shump too... even if its a sweep. I want those guys to see and feel first hand what playoff bb is and how great the Heat are. Thats the ceiling. Not some "important" game in April because guys mailed it in and now they *must win*

Since we traded all our assets and have limited ability to improve the future really lies with Shump and Lin. If those two can become high caliber NBA starter and I think they can we can yet compete for a title. If they are just average starters than the Knicks will be the Hawks. Go the playoffs, maybe win a series, but most likely be one and done each year.

You know what the problem with Knicks fan is all this past losing has given them a loser mentality. All I hear is how good the heat are and how bad everyone on the Knicks are. There ain't no Micheal F'ing Jordon out there. I see a Heats team that hasn't won shyt. Where is the championship they lost last year. Stop creating mental barriers. Miami Heat are a good team but they can be beat.

The first game was a total BS game the Refs completely hijacked that game in the Heat favor. Second game was what an average on the road game is like in the NBA. The Knicks are going to be fine they will take game three. And get take the proper steps to make this into a series.

You may be right (even though I don’t think you are) I guess we will find out in the next two games where we truly stand as a team.

AnubisADL wrote:Depending on a 7 game wonder and a guy coming off an ACL injury is a formula for disaster.

Lin is going to eat up the MLE. So we really only have the LLE to play with.

Did I mention we have no draft picks? Knicks are going to have to make a trade or be prepared for a 3rd year of roster "problems".

knicks1248 wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:Lin will help... he will make the Knicks much better. This talk about injury concern and signing someone like Felton INSTEAD of Lin is insane. Lin is an international sensation and his jersey outsells Kobe. He's the Knicks starting PG until he plays worse than Douglas did.

Lin will be good here, if not very good. If the lineup of Lin/Shump/Melo/Stat/Chandler stays healthy for the next couple years Lin will be one of the better PGs in the league.

That being said Miami's swarming D totally took him out of his game last time, so its hard to see a healthy Lin even now being ready to push the Knicks above the Heat

May be not push the Knicks above the Heat this year, but Lin is young and so is Shumpert, they could have made this series more interesting, and help our front court. Hopefully next year.

I just wanted Lin to have this experience, Shump too... even if its a sweep. I want those guys to see and feel first hand what playoff bb is and how great the Heat are. Thats the ceiling. Not some "important" game in April because guys mailed it in and now they *must win*

Since we traded all our assets and have limited ability to improve the future really lies with Shump and Lin. If those two can become high caliber NBA starter and I think they can we can yet compete for a title. If they are just average starters than the Knicks will be the Hawks. Go the playoffs, maybe win a series, but most likely be one and done each year.

That’s exactly my mind set; our future will really depend on how good our young back court (Lin and Shumpert) develops. I also like Josh for the future; I think his basketball IQ is high, play hard and can shoot the three, though he must improve his conditioning, I think he can be a player.

Appearently woodson doesn't think to highly of jorts..how do you explain his lack of pt and the signing of gadzuric who hasn't even sniff the rotation

It is kind of odd that a defensive minded coach won't play Jorts at all.

Coach goes with the players he thinks can play best.

I don't dislike Jorts but I don't think he is as good as some think.

We have absolutely nothing to lose and Dwayne Wade would be licking his chops but...

Steve Novak at the two gives us scoring by the truckload.

We need 25 points from someone other than Carmelo.

Get the ball to Novak and hope he gets hot.

Shift du Upset

Baron Davis (if we must, we must), Steve Novak (see above), Carmelo (drops 30 plus), Jeffries (hellacious defense), Chandler (a double double would be nice)

Nalod wrote:
I think fans on forums over rate Jorts.

Coach goes with the players he thinks can play best.

I don't dislike Jorts but I don't think he is as good as some think.

There have been times when he performs in a way that makes you think that he could be a decent rotation player. Seems to be someone who can fill up space inside, and box out.

But his shot release has been slow and tentative since coming back; whether in the paint or on a jump shot.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Superstars don't "Need" point guards.

Superstars are complete. They win championships.

Who did Hakeem have? Sam the Alien? Kenny the Jet? Nice players but no not great.

They won so they are elevated.

Elevated by a superstar.

Lebron has been to the finals twice without a "Need" point.

All I keep reading about is how Amare or Carmelo "Need" this and "Need" that to be effective.

Same for years with Ewing.

Superstars make those around them better.

Allstars have needs.

StarMelo is an allstar. Nothing wrong with that.

1994 was an abberation. Jordan retired and the league was down a bit. Hakeem had no-one but neither did Ewing. Hakeem was the better player so he won.

Lebron went to the finals with Cleve but didn't win. If he wins this year its because he had Wade (who already won a 'chip' not to mention a top 7 player in the league) by his side.

Superstars need really good players around them. Kobe had Shaq, Jordan had Pippen, Pierce had KG, etc. Whether you consider Melo and allstar or superstar, he needs one or the other to play alongside of him. Stat is a shell of his former allstar self so he shouldn't be considered.

Otis Thorpe
Robert Horry!
Sam Cassel
Kenny Smith
Mario Elie

They had 7 guys who averaged 9+ per game.

Houston had really good team players that were built around Hakeem passing out of the double team (which Ewing was never good at). They were also a very strong defensive team.

Hakeem was the greatest center of our generation. I have him 3rd all time(Kareem and Wilt ahead of him) and slightly ahead of Shaq because he simply dominated Shaq head to head. Hakeem in his prime was sublime, a true center with guard skills as well. Simply incredible.

Kareem did it across several decades, won titles with 2 different teams, won at every level possible, High School, college, NBA etc.

Both their resumes speak for themselves.

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Wilt was Shaq before Shaq. He still had to battle Kareem, Bill Russell, and Willis Reed etc. He would beast in any era.

Kareem did it across several decades, won titles with 2 different teams, won at every level possible, High School, college, NBA etc.

Both their resumes speak for themselves.

Maybe ... I guess the Kareem that I saw was the older version. But you have to remember that thought they did have to face each other, everyone else was tiny compared to them. I guess this argument is more for Wilt than Kareem - Kareem was finesse which would have been unstoppable today.

I hear you about the general size of centers besides the obvious Hall of Famers. Wilt was a physical specimen though and was extremely athletic. Check out this excerpt from Wikipedia:

Even far beyond his playing days, Chamberlain was a very fit person. In his mid-forties, he was able to humble rookie Magic Johnson in practice,and even in the 1980s, he flirted with making a comeback in the NBA. In the 1980–81 NBA season, coach Larry Brown recalled that the 45-year-old Chamberlain had received an offer from the Cleveland Cavaliers. When Chamberlain was 50, the New Jersey Nets had the same idea, and Chamberlain declined again. However, he would continue to epitomize physical fitness for years to come, including participating in several marathons.

So not saying Wilt didn't benefit greatly from just dominating smaller competition, but his combination of size, athletic ability, and basketball talent are worthy of all the accolades of one of the 2 greatest centers of all time.