Nalod wrote:
Camby was frail then.

McDyess played only 10 games the season prior because of the severe injury, and still Layden pulled the trigger to the draft day horrendous worst trade ever by Knicks management. The guy blew out his Patellar Tendon! Guy never was the same after that. And you trade a #7 overall pick who many thought was a can't miss big man as well as young 24 yr old Camby for a guy with no Patella?

P.S. - A few years later Marcus Camby won the defensive player of the year in Denver. Nene also went on to have a solid career in Denver.

P.S.S. - Shortly after, Antonio McDyess was traded for Stephon Marbury....HOLY SHIT BALLS!!

It happens. In Layden's world.

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The worst GM of all time would be if isiah & jordan were one and you combined isiahs ineptitude at managing his resources with jordans atrocious inability to scout talent

Man, that'd be like combining to form Voltron. The ultimate in sucktitude!

Some other President/GM's that would form pieces to this giant suck robot:

-Elgin Baylor

Highlights: Baylor spent 22 years as GM of the Los Angeles Clippers. And during that time, the team only made the playoffs three times and produced a miserable 607-1153 record.

Passed up Scottie Pippen for Reggie Williams, Kobe Bryant for Lorenzen Wright and Dirk Nowitzki for Michael Olowokandi.

To be fair to Elgin Baylor, he was trying to run a team owned by Donald Sterling, ne of the few men out there who makes James Dolan look like the gold standard of professional sports team owners.

I'd say it's closer to the reverse, sadly.

by what standard Bonn. Sterling was content for years to draft very good talent who, he never intended to resign. He was content to suck for years and years and years. Dolan was/is just inept. I am more likely to forgive someone for ineptitude than I am for someone who is content with mediocrity.

Well let's see - they have the better team now (better record despite being in a tougher conference), have won more playoff games over the past decade, and have done so while spending less money. Other than that, Dolan's done a superior job.

Actually if Dolan was the owner during 1999, he has more wins in that single playoff run than the Clippers entire playoff history under Sterling.

Dolan inherited a great team and it took him a little time to destroy it. He shouldn't somehow get credit for that!

Definitely should get credit, very impressive feat in the short time he's owned the Knicks. Sterling is on another ownership level though. 3 playoffs in 22 years of ownership, pretty ridiculous. Even the Wilpons have more success and that's saying alot.

Bonn makes good points but, I am still in your^ camp regarding Sterling. The dude has been awful twice as long as Dolan has been it seems.

Isn't an owner supposed to at least try to field a competitive team. Dolan was inept but he tried and his heart was always in the right place. The problem was with his brain.

From a fans perspective your right. Dolan as misguided does try to win and willing to spend. But its the owners perogative. Sterling had some decent teams from time to time but few and far between. His teams made money and he ran it as such.

Dolan is not far off that mark.

Bad people make good owners and somtimes bad owners are good people.

Sterling has a reputation of being a bad person. Dolan outside of being inept as an owner is really not a bad person. I have never seen reports he has broken any laws or been sued (outside of indirectly associated with AnuchaGate) outside the realm of MSG.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The worst GM of all time would be if isiah & jordan were one and you combined isiahs ineptitude at managing his resources with jordans atrocious inability to scout talent

Man, that'd be like combining to form Voltron. The ultimate in sucktitude!

Some other President/GM's that would form pieces to this giant suck robot:

-Elgin Baylor

Highlights: Baylor spent 22 years as GM of the Los Angeles Clippers. And during that time, the team only made the playoffs three times and produced a miserable 607-1153 record.

Passed up Scottie Pippen for Reggie Williams, Kobe Bryant for Lorenzen Wright and Dirk Nowitzki for Michael Olowokandi.

To be fair to Elgin Baylor, he was trying to run a team owned by Donald Sterling, ne of the few men out there who makes James Dolan look like the gold standard of professional sports team owners.

I'd say it's closer to the reverse, sadly.

by what standard Bonn. Sterling was content for years to draft very good talent who, he never intended to resign. He was content to suck for years and years and years. Dolan was/is just inept. I am more likely to forgive someone for ineptitude than I am for someone who is content with mediocrity.

Well let's see - they have the better team now (better record despite being in a tougher conference), have won more playoff games over the past decade, and have done so while spending less money. Other than that, Dolan's done a superior job.

Actually if Dolan was the owner during 1999, he has more wins in that single playoff run than the Clippers entire playoff history under Sterling.

Dolan inherited a great team and it took him a little time to destroy it. He shouldn't somehow get credit for that!

Definitely should get credit, very impressive feat in the short time he's owned the Knicks. Sterling is on another ownership level though. 3 playoffs in 22 years of ownership, pretty ridiculous. Even the Wilpons have more success and that's saying alot.

Should get credit? Why? Inheriting a good team is a skill or achievement? If I inherit $5 mil do I get credit for being a financial genius? Even if within the next few years I blow all of it and ten years later I'm still bankrupt?

I was being sarcastic. I meant "credit" in that it took him a relative short time to ruin a once proud franchise.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The worst GM of all time would be if isiah & jordan were one and you combined isiahs ineptitude at managing his resources with jordans atrocious inability to scout talent

Man, that'd be like combining to form Voltron. The ultimate in sucktitude!

Some other President/GM's that would form pieces to this giant suck robot:

-Elgin Baylor

Highlights: Baylor spent 22 years as GM of the Los Angeles Clippers. And during that time, the team only made the playoffs three times and produced a miserable 607-1153 record.

Passed up Scottie Pippen for Reggie Williams, Kobe Bryant for Lorenzen Wright and Dirk Nowitzki for Michael Olowokandi.

To be fair to Elgin Baylor, he was trying to run a team owned by Donald Sterling, ne of the few men out there who makes James Dolan look like the gold standard of professional sports team owners.

I'd say it's closer to the reverse, sadly.

by what standard Bonn. Sterling was content for years to draft very good talent who, he never intended to resign. He was content to suck for years and years and years. Dolan was/is just inept. I am more likely to forgive someone for ineptitude than I am for someone who is content with mediocrity.

Well let's see - they have the better team now (better record despite being in a tougher conference), have won more playoff games over the past decade, and have done so while spending less money. Other than that, Dolan's done a superior job.

Actually if Dolan was the owner during 1999, he has more wins in that single playoff run than the Clippers entire playoff history under Sterling.

Dolan inherited a great team and it took him a little time to destroy it. He shouldn't somehow get credit for that!

Definitely should get credit, very impressive feat in the short time he's owned the Knicks. Sterling is on another ownership level though. 3 playoffs in 22 years of ownership, pretty ridiculous. Even the Wilpons have more success and that's saying alot.

Should get credit? Why? Inheriting a good team is a skill or achievement? If I inherit $5 mil do I get credit for being a financial genius? Even if within the next few years I blow all of it and ten years later I'm still bankrupt?

I was being sarcastic. I meant "credit" in that it took him a relative short time to ruin a once proud franchise.

Oh my bad! It's hard to detect sarcasm over the internet!

My bad, I forgot to put a smiley.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The worst GM of all time would be if isiah & jordan were one and you combined isiahs ineptitude at managing his resources with jordans atrocious inability to scout talent

Man, that'd be like combining to form Voltron. The ultimate in sucktitude!

Some other President/GM's that would form pieces to this giant suck robot:

-Elgin Baylor

Highlights: Baylor spent 22 years as GM of the Los Angeles Clippers. And during that time, the team only made the playoffs three times and produced a miserable 607-1153 record.

Passed up Scottie Pippen for Reggie Williams, Kobe Bryant for Lorenzen Wright and Dirk Nowitzki for Michael Olowokandi.

To be fair to Elgin Baylor, he was trying to run a team owned by Donald Sterling, ne of the few men out there who makes James Dolan look like the gold standard of professional sports team owners.

I'd say it's closer to the reverse, sadly.

by what standard Bonn. Sterling was content for years to draft very good talent who, he never intended to resign. He was content to suck for years and years and years. Dolan was/is just inept. I am more likely to forgive someone for ineptitude than I am for someone who is content with mediocrity.

Well let's see - they have the better team now (better record despite being in a tougher conference), have won more playoff games over the past decade, and have done so while spending less money. Other than that, Dolan's done a superior job.

Actually if Dolan was the owner during 1999, he has more wins in that single playoff run than the Clippers entire playoff history under Sterling.

Dolan inherited a great team and it took him a little time to destroy it. He shouldn't somehow get credit for that!

Definitely should get credit, very impressive feat in the short time he's owned the Knicks. Sterling is on another ownership level though. 3 playoffs in 22 years of ownership, pretty ridiculous. Even the Wilpons have more success and that's saying alot.

Should get credit? Why? Inheriting a good team is a skill or achievement? If I inherit $5 mil do I get credit for being a financial genius? Even if within the next few years I blow all of it and ten years later I'm still bankrupt?

I was being sarcastic. I meant "credit" in that it took him a relative short time to ruin a once proud franchise.

Oh my bad! It's hard to detect sarcasm over the internet!

And I am glad Dolan's finally gotten us to the .550 level but I'd much rather have Paul and Griffin in their primes for the next 5 to 8 years plus many assets to build around them.

Right now the Clippers are headed in the right direction, same as the Knicks are too. It's no longer run by Baylor or Dunleavy. So far GM Neil Olshey is doing a solid job.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Camby was frail then.

McDyess played only 10 games the season prior because of the severe injury, and still Layden pulled the trigger to the draft day horrendous worst trade ever by Knicks management. The guy blew out his Patellar Tendon! Guy never was the same after that. And you trade a #7 overall pick who many thought was a can't miss big man as well as young 24 yr old Camby for a guy with no Patella?

P.S. - A few years later Marcus Camby won the defensive player of the year in Denver. Nene also went on to have a solid career in Denver.

P.S.S. - Shortly after, Antonio McDyess was traded for Stephon Marbury....HOLY SHIT BALLS!!

It happens. In Layden's world.

Without the benefit of hindsight look at the facts:

Dice was cleared medically and it was the other knee that blew out. If he stays healthy Dolan gets his starphuch centerpiece. Sound familiar?

Did anyone know AT THAT TIME Camby as a 29 year old would begin the second wind of his career and prove to be a defensive player and durable?

Did anyone think Nene Hilario would be a great player? Oh, wait, he isn't.

With the benefit of hindsight Denver hits a freaking home run with Amare. They draft Hilaro at the 7th and Skeeter 5th. Maybe they don't get a shot at drafting Melo after?

BTW, 2002 drafte was a disaster! http://www.basketballreference.com/draft/draftyear.htm?yr=2002&lg=N
Dude, go in the moment.

And don't forget you have a very proactive starphuch owner who has to very much be on board with signing off on the Max Dice deal.

My take? Look at the moment in time without the benefit of hindsight.

We did something very similar with Amare! Uninsured contract with a guy that has had microfracture on his knees and a detached retna. Goggles off and pokey in the eye and he is done!

Dolan takes risks. Maybe one day it pans out.

With Dolans help, he can make anyone look worse.

Im not defending Layden, Im defending the facts and how it came to be.

Here's what happened to Dice, From NBA.com

2001-02: Appeared in 10 games … missed the majority of the season after suffering a partial tear of his left patella tendon on 10/4 at practice … underwent surgery on 10/12 (at the same time surgery was performed to remove loose bodies from his right knee) … appeared in 10 games in March before being placed on the injured list due to inflammation in his left knee … missed the remainder of the season … for the year averaged 11.3 points and 5.5 rebounds in 23.6 minutes.

So only playing 10 games, having major surgery on both knees at the same time, and only one team cleared him medically, the Knicks under Layden.

With Amare it was risk because his injury history, but he actually played all 82 games the season prior to free agency.

The 2002 draft was actually a very solid one. A few stars, and several solid players still playing today. Stars or former all stars: Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler, Carlos Boozer(2nd rd)

Solid players: Mike Dunleavy, Jr, Drew Gooden, Nene, Tayshaun Prince, Matt Barnes, Luis Scola

As far as Nene/Camby. Didn't it seem like they were in the playoffs every year? Hmm...

Or maybe they were in hunt because of that other dude, forgot his name.

Anyways, some one had to do the dirty work inside. Wish it was Nene/Camby for however long they would be in Knicks uni's.

Thanks Scott!

Nalod wrote:So you think a pansy GM like scotty would do that trade?

Or the starphuch owner?

My money is JImmy wanted his GM to do the deal.

The owner is responsable for his team. He hires the Gm, its his deal.

Thanks Jimmy! (including hiring Scotty!)

Yea, it was Jim Dolan's idea to bring in the Utah connection, Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley!

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:So you think a pansy GM like scotty would do that trade?

Or the starphuch owner?

My money is JImmy wanted his GM to do the deal.

The owner is responsable for his team. He hires the Gm, its his deal.

Thanks Jimmy! (including hiring Scotty!)

Yea every single move is Jim Dolan's!

Yea, it was Jim Dolan's idea to bring in the Utah connection, Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley!

Did not say every move. Did not say Layden was good.

The subject of ire was the Dice trade.

Repeat: The Amare signing is a signiture starphuch move and has similar traits to Dice. Amare came with risks and financially no insurance. Dice was at least insured. No GM does these deals without heavy involvement of the GM.

Anderson and Eisley did not kill this franchise. No excuse for using role players as starters but:

If there was a thought that they were ready to step up from a role to starters it is a thought process. It failed. Nobody is saying it worked.

But go back in time and look at why they were bought in? We traded for them. What was the trade like? Were we dumping a contract?

Teams make bad personel moves to dump a contract.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Camby was frail then.

McDyess played only 10 games the season prior because of the severe injury, and still Layden pulled the trigger to the draft day horrendous worst trade ever by Knicks management. The guy blew out his Patellar Tendon! Guy never was the same after that. And you trade a #7 overall pick who many thought was a can't miss big man as well as young 24 yr old Camby for a guy with no Patella?

P.S. - A few years later Marcus Camby won the defensive player of the year in Denver. Nene also went on to have a solid career in Denver.

P.S.S. - Shortly after, Antonio McDyess was traded for Stephon Marbury....HOLY SHIT BALLS!!

It happens. In Layden's world.

Without the benefit of hindsight look at the facts:

Dice was cleared medically and it was the other knee that blew out. If he stays healthy Dolan gets his starphuch centerpiece. Sound familiar?

Did anyone know AT THAT TIME Camby as a 29 year old would begin the second wind of his career and prove to be a defensive player and durable?

Did anyone think Nene Hilario would be a great player? Oh, wait, he isn't.

With the benefit of hindsight Denver hits a freaking home run with Amare. They draft Hilaro at the 7th and Skeeter 5th. Maybe they don't get a shot at drafting Melo after?

BTW, 2002 drafte was a disaster! http://www.basketballreference.com/draft/draftyear.htm?yr=2002&lg=N
Dude, go in the moment.

And don't forget you have a very proactive starphuch owner who has to very much be on board with signing off on the Max Dice deal.

My take? Look at the moment in time without the benefit of hindsight.

We did something very similar with Amare! Uninsured contract with a guy that has had microfracture on his knees and a detached retna. Goggles off and pokey in the eye and he is done!

Dolan takes risks. Maybe one day it pans out.

With Dolans help, he can make anyone look worse.

Im not defending Layden, Im defending the facts and how it came to be.

your echoing a point I made on page1. I actually feel bad for Layden regarding Dyess because he was a beast and supposed to be healthy. Looked awesome in preseason and would have looked like a home run had it panned out.

Nalod wrote:
Always amazing when Isiah gets bashed Layden gets thrown into the mix as if to some how make Isiah look better.

The thread was about Isiah vs. Jordan.

Isiah epic failure was in the face of a monumental cap number.

Jordan with Bobcats is cost saving but killing his attendance.

MSG is a higher revenue driven palace. You lose you attendance you lose big money. Thru the years the garden still did very well at the gate. Thats whats crazy about MSG.

The panic by Dolan in Laydens dull teams was he needed to starphuch some excitement back in. The Marbury deal was on the table for Layden but it was Isiah who did the deal. Or better put, Dolan had Isiah do that deal. Maybe Isiah had to sell it to his owner. Thats how it works folks.

It worked, the garden was buzzing again! We panned Layden who failed but in his last two years the team did not panic by trading picks. The held onto the assets that Isiah used.

Thats my take. The process of Grunfelds tenure lead to Laydens led to Isiah's.

The constant is the owner.

Isiah is the biggest ******* because of: anucha gate, Larry Browngate, his trauma with Marbury and his general slime that surrounds his persona.

Layden and Grunfeld have no off court issues.

Back to the topic at hand. Isiah was by worse than MJ and Layden. The only point I wanted to make was MJ is terrible now and in a couple years could potentially pass him given his checkered past with Washington and now Charlotte(worst record in NBA history).

See ya later Anthony Davis and the #1 pick...so much for tanking!!!