Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2012/03/26/QTK1112PLAYOFFSCHANDLER602012032-2047340

F*ck the stats. Tyson is man & Dwight is a spoiled brat who thinks he deserves things without having to earn it.

Actually, I do get the impression that Dwight relies on pure athleticism and doesn't work very hard to improve his game. I could be wrong but it seems that way.

I don't think that is true at all about him not working hard. Clearly, he worked hard to build his body up...to make him more of a factor. He also has more moves around the basket than he had years ago.

Does he work hard in the gym or does he just have freakish genetics and do a little bit of work in the gym? Or maybe he does work hard in the gym but only because he enjoys it - much more so than doing something boring like practicing 500 free throws a day.

Its hard to make that conclusion/assumption without it being substantiated. Shaq could not hit free throws. Ben Walace? Hardest worker I've ever seen. Wilt?

Howard is all world defense and has worked excessively hard at improving his offensive game.

It is quite frustrating being on a team with a weak supporting cast (as JVG alluded to numerous times last night)

The guy is a beast!

Yeah, I'm giving the impression I get based on how much he seems to just enjoy getting attention and being a celebrity and that he seems to be perfectly content staying with a poorly functioning organization. I said earlier that I could be completely wrong though. I'm not sure he's made any improvements to his offensive game in the last five years though.

His offensive game bares no comparison to 5 years ago. Take a look! His post moves have drastically evolved.

Then why are his stats almost identical (if not a little worse now)? Is he getting better at post moves and worse at everything else?

He is taking more shots a game becoming the full focal point of the offense. I have watched over 100 Orlando games over the last few years. While he started out as a high flying dunkster with no real post game, he now has a wide variety of really nice post moves. He still does not have a jumper - he is very similar to shaq in type of offensive game and how they built a formidable post game.

Shaq was Miles better though and more dominant.

Edit: Last night he made a beautiful post / drop step move that completely fooled Tyson and JVG could not stop talking about how far he has come in the post.

technomaster wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2012/03/26/QTK1112PLAYOFFSCHANDLER602012032-2047340

F*ck the stats. Tyson is man & Dwight is a spoiled brat who thinks he deserves things without having to earn it.

Actually, I do get the impression that Dwight relies on pure athleticism and doesn't work very hard to improve his game. I could be wrong but it seems that way.

Well, let's just say I was EXTREMELY surprised when Tyson Chandler made a post move against the Bucks.

Fact is that Chandler is among the tallest players in the league, and probably one of the top 5 most athletic centers in the league. Great hands, runs the floor like a deer. With his tools, I can't quite figure out why his career scoring has peaked at ~12ppg, when as an athlete he's not far off from Dwight Howard or just about any big man in the league.

Chandler needs a big man coach to work on his post game. No ifs ands or buts about it. That's what they did for DH, why can't we do that for Chandler?

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2012/03/26/QTK1112PLAYOFFSCHANDLER602012032-2047340

F*ck the stats. Tyson is man & Dwight is a spoiled brat who thinks he deserves things without having to earn it.

Actually, I do get the impression that Dwight relies on pure athleticism and doesn't work very hard to improve his game. I could be wrong but it seems that way.

I don't think that is true at all about him not working hard. Clearly, he worked hard to build his body up...to make him more of a factor. He also has more moves around the basket than he had years ago.

Does he work hard in the gym or does he just have freakish genetics and do a little bit of work in the gym? Or maybe he does work hard in the gym but only because he enjoys it - much more so than doing something boring like practicing 500 free throws a day.

Its hard to make that conclusion/assumption without it being substantiated. Shaq could not hit free throws. Ben Walace? Hardest worker I've ever seen. Wilt?

Howard is all world defense and has worked excessively hard at improving his offensive game.

It is quite frustrating being on a team with a weak supporting cast (as JVG alluded to numerous times last night)

The guy is a beast!

Yeah, I'm giving the impression I get based on how much he seems to just enjoy getting attention and being a celebrity and that he seems to be perfectly content staying with a poorly functioning organization. I said earlier that I could be completely wrong though. I'm not sure he's made any improvements to his offensive game in the last five years though.

His offensive game bares no comparison to 5 years ago. Take a look! His post moves have drastically evolved.

Then why are his stats almost identical (if not a little worse now)? Is he getting better at post moves and worse at everything else?

He is taking more shots a game becoming the full focal point of the offense. I have watched over 100 Orlando games over the last few years. While he started out as a high flying dunkster with no real post game, he now has a wide variety of really nice post moves. He still does not have a jumper - he is very similar to shaq in type of offensive game and how they built a formidable post game.

Shaq was Miles better though and more dominant.

Edit: Last night he made a beautiful post / drop step move that completely fooled Tyson and JVG could not stop talking about how far he has come in the post.

Note that I referred to 5 years ago, not to when DH was a rookie or sophomore. And actually 4 years ago might be a better comparison. Here are his per 36 minute numbers from 4 years ago and from this year:

4 years ago: 7.1 FGs out of 12.5 FGAs; FG% = .572; FT% = .594; 20.7 PPG
This year: 7.5 FGs out of 12.8 FGAs; FG% = .582; FT% = .490; 19.8 PPG

Maybe he's made some small refinements to his post game but I'm always skeptical when people talk about the gigantic strides a player has made while the stats are virtually identical. I'd be more impressed with the improvement if you switched the numbers from 4 years ago and this year actually!

Have you watched him play now? Did you watch him 5 years ago or are you just relying on stats? He does not just rely on high flying to score now.

Stat has developed a 15-20 foot jumper that he did not have early in his career. Does that mean he should now be scoring many more points? Not necessarily. As teams take certain aspects of your game away by loading their defense to stop a strong point, it is important to adjust and find other ways to score.

Watch Howard now and compare that to 5 years ago and you will not be making this argument. Listen to the smart people like JVG say this about him as well and you will probably have an easier time believing it.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2012/03/26/QTK1112PLAYOFFSCHANDLER602012032-2047340

F*ck the stats. Tyson is man & Dwight is a spoiled brat who thinks he deserves things without having to earn it.

Actually, I do get the impression that Dwight relies on pure athleticism and doesn't work very hard to improve his game. I could be wrong but it seems that way.

I don't think that is true at all about him not working hard. Clearly, he worked hard to build his body up...to make him more of a factor. He also has more moves around the basket than he had years ago.

Does he work hard in the gym or does he just have freakish genetics and do a little bit of work in the gym? Or maybe he does work hard in the gym but only because he enjoys it - much more so than doing something boring like practicing 500 free throws a day.

Its hard to make that conclusion/assumption without it being substantiated. Shaq could not hit free throws. Ben Walace? Hardest worker I've ever seen. Wilt?

Howard is all world defense and has worked excessively hard at improving his offensive game.

It is quite frustrating being on a team with a weak supporting cast (as JVG alluded to numerous times last night)

The guy is a beast!

Yeah, I'm giving the impression I get based on how much he seems to just enjoy getting attention and being a celebrity and that he seems to be perfectly content staying with a poorly functioning organization. I said earlier that I could be completely wrong though. I'm not sure he's made any improvements to his offensive game in the last five years though.

His offensive game bares no comparison to 5 years ago. Take a look! His post moves have drastically evolved.

Then why are his stats almost identical (if not a little worse now)? Is he getting better at post moves and worse at everything else?

He is taking more shots a game becoming the full focal point of the offense. I have watched over 100 Orlando games over the last few years. While he started out as a high flying dunkster with no real post game, he now has a wide variety of really nice post moves. He still does not have a jumper - he is very similar to shaq in type of offensive game and how they built a formidable post game.

Shaq was Miles better though and more dominant.

Edit: Last night he made a beautiful post / drop step move that completely fooled Tyson and JVG could not stop talking about how far he has come in the post.

Note that I referred to 5 years ago, not to when DH was a rookie or sophomore. And actually 4 years ago might be a better comparison. Here are his per 36 minute numbers from 4 years ago and from this year:

4 years ago: 7.1 FGs out of 12.5 FGAs; FG% = .572; FT% = .594; 20.7 PPG
This year: 7.5 FGs out of 12.8 FGAs; FG% = .582; FT% = .490; 19.8 PPG

Maybe he's made some small refinements to his post game but I'm always skeptical when people talk about the gigantic strides a player has made while the stats are virtually identical. I'd be more impressed with the improvement if you switched the numbers from 4 years ago and this year actually!

Have you watched him play now? Did you watch him 5 years ago or are you just relying on stats? He does not just rely on high flying to score now.

Stat has developed a 15-20 foot jumper that he did not have early in his career. Does that mean he should now be scoring many more points? Not necessarily. As teams take certain aspects of your game away by loading their defense to stop a strong point, it is important to adjust and find other ways to score.

Watch Howard now and compare that to 5 years ago and you will not be making this argument. Listen to the smart people like JVG say this about him as well and you will probably have an easier time believing it.

I didn't say his game didn't change. As a matter of logic, though, if a player significantly improves his game in one area but still puts up the exact same numbers, he must be doing worse in other aspects of the game. (And clearly FT% is one of them.) If a player improves in one aspect of the game but puts up the exact same production, then I don't get excited by that one improved area.

Not doing worse in other aspects but doing less of ... That has a lot to do with defenses adjusting to his original way. Also, did he have a better team 5 years ago or worse?

There are so many variables that cannot be deciphered just by eyeballing stats.

To have longevity and remain consistent as well as wanting to keep the defense thinking, one must continuously evolve their game. The same high flying legs are not necessarily as high flying 5-8 years later. It also is not the way to play if you don't want to get hurt and wish for a sustained career.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/2012/03/26/QTK1112PLAYOFFSCHANDLER602012032-2047340

F*ck the stats. Tyson is man & Dwight is a spoiled brat who thinks he deserves things without having to earn it.

Actually, I do get the impression that Dwight relies on pure athleticism and doesn't work very hard to improve his game. I could be wrong but it seems that way.

I don't think that is true at all about him not working hard. Clearly, he worked hard to build his body up...to make him more of a factor. He also has more moves around the basket than he had years ago.

Does he work hard in the gym or does he just have freakish genetics and do a little bit of work in the gym? Or maybe he does work hard in the gym but only because he enjoys it - much more so than doing something boring like practicing 500 free throws a day.

Its hard to make that conclusion/assumption without it being substantiated. Shaq could not hit free throws. Ben Walace? Hardest worker I've ever seen. Wilt?

Howard is all world defense and has worked excessively hard at improving his offensive game.

It is quite frustrating being on a team with a weak supporting cast (as JVG alluded to numerous times last night)

The guy is a beast!

Yeah, I'm giving the impression I get based on how much he seems to just enjoy getting attention and being a celebrity and that he seems to be perfectly content staying with a poorly functioning organization. I said earlier that I could be completely wrong though. I'm not sure he's made any improvements to his offensive game in the last five years though.

His offensive game bares no comparison to 5 years ago. Take a look! His post moves have drastically evolved.

Then why are his stats almost identical (if not a little worse now)? Is he getting better at post moves and worse at everything else?

He is taking more shots a game becoming the full focal point of the offense. I have watched over 100 Orlando games over the last few years. While he started out as a high flying dunkster with no real post game, he now has a wide variety of really nice post moves. He still does not have a jumper - he is very similar to shaq in type of offensive game and how they built a formidable post game.

Shaq was Miles better though and more dominant.

Edit: Last night he made a beautiful post / drop step move that completely fooled Tyson and JVG could not stop talking about how far he has come in the post.

Note that I referred to 5 years ago, not to when DH was a rookie or sophomore. And actually 4 years ago might be a better comparison. Here are his per 36 minute numbers from 4 years ago and from this year:

4 years ago: 7.1 FGs out of 12.5 FGAs; FG% = .572; FT% = .594; 20.7 PPG
This year: 7.5 FGs out of 12.8 FGAs; FG% = .582; FT% = .490; 19.8 PPG

Maybe he's made some small refinements to his post game but I'm always skeptical when people talk about the gigantic strides a player has made while the stats are virtually identical. I'd be more impressed with the improvement if you switched the numbers from 4 years ago and this year actually!

Have you watched him play now? Did you watch him 5 years ago or are you just relying on stats? He does not just rely on high flying to score now.

Stat has developed a 15-20 foot jumper that he did not have early in his career. Does that mean he should now be scoring many more points? Not necessarily. As teams take certain aspects of your game away by loading their defense to stop a strong point, it is important to adjust and find other ways to score.

Watch Howard now and compare that to 5 years ago and you will not be making this argument. Listen to the smart people like JVG say this about him as well and you will probably have an easier time believing it.

I didn't say his game didn't change. As a matter of logic, though, if a player significantly improves his game in one area but still puts up the exact same numbers, he must be doing worse in other aspects of the game. (And clearly FT% is one of them.) If a player improves in one aspect of the game but puts up the exact same production, then I don't get excited by that one improved area.

Not doing worse in other aspects but doing less of ... That has a lot to do with defenses adjusting to his original way. Also, did he have a better team 5 years ago or worse.

To have longevity and remain consistent as well as wanting to keep the defense thinking, one must continuously evolve their game. The same high flying legs are not necessarily as high flying 5-8 years later. It also is not the way to play if you don't want to get hurt and wish for a sustained career.

Those are reasonable points. Don't you think the drop in his free throw shooting is disappointing though?

Yes I do. But, that is not always do to a lack of effort and practice. It is quite psyche driven.

mrKnickShot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:To Me tyson is good at what he does, just like rodman and bowen, and kerr, and novak..JVG made a good point last night (regarding novak) when he said, when you know who you are in this league, and you your role, you will always excel and you will be around a long time

I'm not worry about tyson learning post moves, or melo trying to play point FWD, do what you do best play your role, elevate your teammates, and play hard and smart..TYSON dos that, except for the occasional silly fouls..

The only reason he's not a favorite to win DPOY is because of his stats, but his prensnce his so huge for us on both ends on and off the court..

He did a nice job on DH, but they were also doubling, the difference was we were closing out on there perimeter players much better, took away there confidence..it was a good Game plan to begin with..kudos for woodson..

LMAO at SVG playing a zone defense against us thinking were at the bottom of the stats in 3pt FG..couple of 3's good ball movement resulted in a 21-0 run..SVG lost his teams ear for a the night

The zone was a disaster and lasted for no more than 2-3 possessions. Melo looked great in that zone he played the high post and killed it with movement.