TripleThreat wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:DOES MDA DESERVE FAULT (ALONG WITH MELO) FOR THEIR RIFT AND FOR THE LOSING????? OR WAS IT ALL MELO (AND STAT, SINCE YOU SOMETIMES THROW HIM IN)?IS MDA BLAMELESS?

Two wrongs don't make a right. They just don't. I suppose some people here or out in the world feel that they do, and all I can say is I feel sorry for those people.

Personally I don't think MDA was the right answer as head coach for the Knicks and this Knicks team, HOWEVER, regardless of who is the coach or not, Melo is the undisputed player looked to as the team leader and Alpha Dog, he has specific and time honored held responsibilities for that position. Mostly what I see are Melo apologists saying, "Well Melo did this, but do you realize this player or this coach did or said that?"

What are people, in the 7th grade still?

I don't think anyone here is saying MDA should walk scot free from all the problems the Knicks had, however, there seem to be Melo apologists who want to say "The team is winning now, that's all that matters" Guess what? I think people who have a problem with Melo's deficiencies as a leader and his defensive effort care very much about the Knicks potential to win too. Except they are looking at the LONG TERM prospects of winning.

Sure the Knicks have won three games now. That's great. But will they sustain it? Will Melo sustain this effort or revert back to the lazy defender he has always been for nearly a decade?

Lack of effort is a player treating his fans like absolute dog s**t. The Pistons did that, they hated Coach Kuester and stopped trying. But who really paid? Detroit has been hit hard by the bad economy the past few years, I posit that ultimately the fans paid the most. The fans deserve to see their home team fight hard every single night. How is that being respectful and appreciative of your fan base if you dog it because you hate your coach, when it looks like millionaires throwing a tantrum at the cost of the value of the tickets paid for by the rank and file fans who cheer those players and team on?

The way I see it, Melo's lack of effort for so long and his piss poor attitude and his leadership failures is an insult to every Knicks fan in the world. Part of being that team leader is how you represent your franchise. It's funny, like I said, I know there are people here with kids, and I have serious doubts most parents would let their kids act like Melo on their own youth sports teams. But somehow it's ok because it's Melo and that's somehow different. I don't know what I find more disturbing to me, that some fans are ok with piss poor effort and the implied insult to their fandom, or that so many clearly have no concept of basic right or wrong or ignore it all because it's an NBA superstar.

Call me crazy to think that to be a WINNER, you have to ACT LIKE A WINNER. And to act like a winner, you have to be CONSISTENTLY PROFESSIONAL AND BE A LEADER AND EXAMPLE. Sure, you can win a few games as a jackhole, but to be a true winner and lead your team to a ring, I'd like to think your star player shouldn't have to be pushed or reminded about what is needed to respect the team, the franchise, the fans and themselves.

What I wouldn't give to have Melo have the professionalism and grace and leadership and work ethic of a Ray Allen or a Grant Hill or Shane Battier or a Tim Duncan or a Ronnie Lott or a Mike Singletary or a Ray Bourque or a Mark Messier or a Bernie Williams. These are players who probably didn't love every single coach they had in life or every single situation they felt something was wrong for them personally, but these were players who set the example of how to win and how to be a winner. So sad that the Knicks breaking hearts of fans during the Zeke years and the losing for so long would entice some fans to accept just any kind of jack hole and his childish diva behavior because it's better than nothing.

There is no one to blame for Melo's lack of effort before the past three games except Melo himself. Like I said, anyone who feels different, that's their right, but I feel sorry for them and I feel sorry for the kind of values they are teaching their kids.

TripleThreat, I actually read your whole post (which was not easy) - I enjoyed it too, good post. A couple of areas of contention:

1. 2 wrongs don't make a right. THEY MAKE 2 WRONGS!
2. Welcome to the current NBA. Players are spoiled ASSHOLES - A coach needs to coach ASSHOLES or he can't coach NBA players (not every team is San Antonio - probably because POP would not put up with it. You picked some classy players but there are many Diva's who clash with their coaches. Many! And, they usually win. Why because they are spoiled brats.
3. While Melo was a misfit, I still do not buy that he dogged it. I actually thought his man to man defense was quite good. And, he has been nothing but classy to the media. He was obviously unhappy (I assume) and that does not help any player. Did he miss practice? Have yelling matches with the coach (can't be MDA barely spoke to him), have fights with other players? Post boobies on Twitter? Get in trouble with the law? Say anything negative about anyone? NO! We would like to think if we made 20 million a year that we would not be spoiled, but trust me, that's exactly what 20 million a years does - makes you a brat.
4. If your kids look up to NBA players as role models then I think you are failing them as a father. My kids know better than to look up to NBA players.
5. Was STAT dogging it to until the past 3 games? How about the rest of the team? It takes a team effort and a lousy coaching job to crash and burn.
6. You made many assumptions just like many others. That to me is sad. I hope you do not get judged at your job for what others perceive

When Kobe acted like a jerk it hurt the team and really even PJax couldn't control him.. When he matured and bought in, they prospered. Sometimes you have a Dennis Rodman type that is hard to control, but even in his case he had to reign it in and become compliant in order for the team to win. MJ and Pippen made sure about that. If Rodman hadn't complied and bought in they would've gotten rid of him!!! Here Melo is the Jordan and STAT the Pippen and unfortunately they were the ones not doing what they should be doing and so their was nobody in the lockerroom to have MDA's back and make sure everyone was in line, or more particular to get Melo in line. IMO STAT and Tyson should've been the ones to do that. In Boston it's KG that takes on that role and Duncan in SA.

So now Woody is the coach and in truth he doesn't really have the authority to reign in Melo either. If things should take a turn we're still stuck with a LOUSY guy as the leader of the team and STAT is a weak Pippen.

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:When you look at winning teams they have players that despite their own personal flaws as individuals, on the court they act as professionals for the greater good. The Spurs won with Pop as the coach, Duncan as the leader and everyone played their roles. The Celtics won with Doc as the coach, KG as the leader and everyone played their roles. It's not true that we have to suffer fools just to win games, not to mention vie for a title.

When Kobe acted like a jerk it hurt the team and really even PJax couldn't control him.. When he matured and bought in, they prospered. Sometimes you have a Dennis Rodman type that is hard to control, but even in his case he had to reign it in and become compliant in order for the team to win. MJ and Pippen made sure about that. If Rodman hadn't complied and bought in they would've gotten rid of him!!! Here Melo is the Jordan and STAT the Pippen and unfortunately they were the ones not doing what they should be doing and so their was nobody in the lockerroom to have MDA's back and make sure everyone was in line, or more particular to get Melo in line. IMO STAT and Tyson should've been the ones to do that. In Boston it's KG that takes on that role and Duncan in SA.

So now Woody is the coach and in truth he doesn't really have the authority to reign in Melo either. If things should take a turn we're still stuck with a LOUSY guy as the leader of the team and STAT is a weak Pippen.

Thanks for not responding to my post. I guess when the going gets tough you just crumble and run. It's ok, I guess I just had higher expectations based on your tenacity.

BTW, maybe Stat and Tyson did not have his back because they were sick of him and were happy to see him go. Ever think of that? Ever think that maybe HE was dogging it? All the pouting and that crappy expression - was he not acting like a Diva? You think just the fans want to win? Guess what players like winning too.

I don't see any of the players crying over him leaving. If they are crying in private, they sure and not showing it on the floor.

My post covered all the necessary bases for a winning formula using recent champions as an example. STAT and Tyson both made statements about players needing to buy in and give max effort on D and to listen to what the coaches had been preaching. Tyson was also quite clear on how successful that could make the team since he was there for all of Linsanity and saw what the team could do, even shorthanded if everyone bought in. Why would he have a problem with the Coach after that?

All coaches expect and demand obedience from their players. That's the whole idea. They coach and the players play. Why should the players prolong any feelings about MDA leaving when they had business at hand. They acted like pros and played hard. That's what they should do. I'm very happy that the team is once again playing like their talent suggest they should. I saw no reason for the good play on D that they had during Linsanity to have ended. I'm glad it's back. I'm glad the team is unified under Woody and playing like they want to challenge for a title.

Uptown wrote:

Erniecat wrote:

Uptown wrote:Love that Woodson is emphasizing, defense, defense and more defense. This team has enough offensive weapons that they will figure out a way to score enough point. But its on the defensize side of the ball that will help secure the W.

Exactly.

I'm a Yankee fan, and I have always believed that the team (front office) should worry mainly about pitching. The Yanks always have enough offense. But when they pitch well, that's when they are at their best.

Same here. Do not worry about the offense -- just worry about the D. If we become a consistently great defensive team, look out.

BTW, I loved seeing Darrell Walker standing up in the second half when we were on defense, really getting into it. We actually have more than one coach stressing defense!!!

Love the Darrell Walker hire. He was a real ball-hawk when he played for the Knicks....

Do you remember the 1984 first-round series vs. Detroit? Walker was unbelievable in that series, coming up with some huge steals. Shumpert sort of reminds me of Walker in that regard.

So I was also very happy to see Walker added. I think he will be very good for the defense.

mrKnickShot wrote:Nixluva, it was a simple question - I don't need you to recite the bible. If you choose to plea the 5th, just say that and I will respect your wishes. But please do not dodge the question - reposting:

I saw what you wrote (MDA) "Clearly failed to get it done" but then you contradicted yourself with "So what exactly was MDA guilty of?" - Did you realize this? So which one is it? I will take the former being that you re-posted it.

So, if MDA "Clearly failed to get it done", should he have been fired or asked to resign being that he clearly failed to get it done? Melo was not gonna get traded - thats just the way things are. The star always (almost always) has more job security. Kidd, Kobe, DWil, Dirk, Magic ... So, that being said, I imagine based on your statement (MDA) "Clearly failed to get it done", that we needed to move forward?

This is exhausting. You know exactly what my point is. I don't believe Melo has acted in the spirit of winning players that have led teams to victory. Real leaders help their teams win and don't do things that hurt the team. So while it's true that MDA failed to convince Melo to buy in that ultimately means we still have the source of the problem on the team and at any point in the future he could pull the same crap. That may be fine with u and all the other fans that blamed it all on MDA, but it isn't cool with me.

This team had come together and was defending and winning. All that was required was for Melo to be a leader and a force for good in the lockerroom but that's not what he chose to do. Everyone else had bought in. So now that chapter is over in terms of MDA but we still have Melo. Will he lead and be a reason we win games or is this a temporary act cuz the spotlight is on?

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Nixluva, it was a simple question - I don't need you to recite the bible. If you choose to plea the 5th, just say that and I will respect your wishes. But please do not dodge the question - reposting:

I saw what you wrote (MDA) "Clearly failed to get it done" but then you contradicted yourself with "So what exactly was MDA guilty of?" - Did you realize this? So which one is it? I will take the former being that you re-posted it.

So, if MDA "Clearly failed to get it done", should he have been fired or asked to resign being that he clearly failed to get it done? Melo was not gonna get traded - thats just the way things are. The star always (almost always) has more job security. Kidd, Kobe, DWil, Dirk, Magic ... So, that being said, I imagine based on your statement (MDA) "Clearly failed to get it done", that we needed to move forward?

This is exhausting. You know exactly what my point is. I don't believe Melo has acted in the spirit of winning players that have led teams to victory. Real leaders help their teams win and don't do things that hurt the team. So while it's true that MDA failed to convince Melo to buy in that ultimately means we still have the source of the problem on the team and at any point in the future he could pull the same crap. That may be fine with u and all the other fans that blamed it all on MDA, but it isn't cool with me.

This team had come together and was defending and winning. All that was required was for Melo to be a leader and a force for good in the lockerroom but that's not what he chose to do. Everyone else had bought in. So now that chapter is over in terms of MDA but we still have Melo. Will he lead and be a reason we win games or is this a temporary act cuz the spotlight is on?

First, your comment: "That may be fine with u and all the other fans that blamed it all on MDA" is total bullShit and it is borderline autistic-like (Dustin Hoffman - "I need underwear, Kmart - 2400 oak st ...).

I keep saying over and over that Melo, Stat etc ... (but more Melo) share the blame. But your selective hearing or maybe just your lack of capacity hears what you/it wants to hear. SMFH

I conclude that you are waving the white flag by continuing to ignore the question. Anyway, I see that I am wasting my time because of your inability to engage in a logical and FOCUSED debate. After this exercise, YOU make much more sense to me.

No need to respond.

jrodmc wrote:

misterearl wrote:"It's everything from defensive rebounding to rotations to blocked shots to talking. I've known every screen that's been coming pretty much in the last two games. I've heard it from the big men. They're calling it out. They're active, so it's very collective right now and when that's going, it's scary."

- Jeremy Lin

Hmmmmmm...I guess Melo plays in the backcourt for the last three games, right? [Not at you, AnswerMan]

TripleThreat wrote:I can't speak for anyone else but me, but I refuse to accept that any Knick fan...

It's tough to follow this line of logic. You speak for yourself while telling every other Knick fan what to think.

I'm a Knick fan. From the two glory years back in ancient times, though Sugar Ray, Felton Spencer and Matt Fish. Tears still well up thinking about Spree being one airball away from taking Game 5 13 years ago.

Melo brings something we haven't had since BK or Spree or Ewing. A certified threat. Someone who can singlehandedly take over a game offensively. Have we seen that yet from him? Some glimpses, yes; week in/week out- no way. But what I don't understand is this unmitigated hate for a star who came here for what amounted to some role players and dreams. [yes, despite some nice passes, no one is nominating Gallo for the HOF yet, and our draft picks may possibly turn out to be sheehit].

Last year, we were watching him play 1 on 5 against the Celts in the playoffs, and not because he's Mr. Iso, but because he had no one to play with.

The man's a Knick. Criticize him, fine. But live with the fact.

And lets not forget his 42 point game and his averaging 10.3 rebounds against the celts in the playoffs while he was being quad teamed.