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Is It More Important For Carmelo to be More Efficient, Or For Lin To Cut His Turnovers?
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Bonn1997
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2/29/2012  9:57 AM
misterearl wrote:franco - excellent points. What is interesting is that Carmelo's "efficiency" seems to be the default answer. Bonn1997 defines that as "at least an upper .500s TS%"

If Lin's errors are to be excused (while he reduces his average turnovers to less than 4) as he learns the league from a Mike D'Antoni perspective...

...what measurables are you judging Carmelo's effectiveness by?

The season starts tonight.


Carmelo has the talent to be that efficient if not much more and still score a lot of points. And that would be the best thing that could happen to the team.
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misterearl
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2/29/2012  10:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/29/2012  10:04 AM
TheGame - think of it this way, when Carmelo was forcing shots, what were the other options?

Stoudemire was obviously struggling, Bill Walker was inconsistent, Novak was nailed to the pine or ignored on the floor, Tyson Chandler will never be confused with Kareem (devoid of one signature low post move), Landry was lost and Toney was in full retreat. Remember the game we attempted 43 three point shots?

43.

Forty three three point shot attempts in one freakin' game.

Certainly, Carmelo can be called into question for too much individual effort when the offense was a mess. What else would a leader be expected to do? Give up the ball to less skilled options?

Please excuse the rear view mirror rant. If Carmelo was guilty of anything it was his fatal flaw to take too much responsibility to fight through the chaos. Was it selfish or simply bad mathematics?

Fast forwarding to the second half of the season, Melo knows he has help in guys like Novak and JR Smith... Stoudemire is motivated and Fields is cutting hard to the rack... and the floor is more organized with Lin.

It is a new day and D'Antoni has a fresh set of crayons.

The season starts tonight.

once a knick always a knick
Nalod
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2/29/2012  10:13 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
airchibundo507 wrote:
eViL wrote:
misterearl wrote:Translation: Using Miami as a model, the defensive pressure on Lin will be turned up five degrees.

i love when people say that teams are going to use the "Miami Model." is that so? how exactly will other teams do this? are there super athletes that are committed to defense like Lebron and Wade on every team?

The super athletes that punked Lin were Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole, who simply managed to poke the ball out from under Lin's nose as he was crossing the halfcourt line.

Yes, there are ballhawking defenders on other teams.

Boston - Rondo, Avery Johnson
OKC - Westbrook

He might even struggle against Chicago.

No, it was Dwayne and Lebron who shut down Lin by cutting off his options. Lin could handle the guards by finding open shooters. Problem was when he drove and kicked, Lebron and Dwayne were the unintended recipients. Lin isn't a one man show: He needs the rest of the team to step up and knock down shots. He needs the dudes getting his passes to be in position and to come get the ball. He needs teammates who play better than Amare.

did you watch the game? Cole and Chalmers (and Wade and LBJ) took turns commiting assault and battery on Lin

Good point. The man was exhausted and they set out to wear him out by pressing him, then had Lebron and Wade trap him.

It worked because they are commited to trapping and the effort to get back. I have never seen a team so fast to react on defense on a pt guard. It was really impressive. Not a highlight ESPN dunk impressive, but for those who saw it and like watching defensive sets you had to admire the effort and intensity the Heat put into that game.

I hate the Heat and the bravado of "The Decison" and watch too much basketball to start watching other teams but they won my respect in that game.

As for Lin, believe it or not the knicks won't need to come on the UK to get ideas from us on what needs to be done. Film has been broken down and they will adjust when teams try this. Every action has a reaction and if your gonna trap someone is open.

KNicks did not execute the antidote but they'll work on it. Swing the ball around and you'll hit the open man.

4 games in 5 nites, adding 2 new players on top of reintroducing Melo to the Golden One all makes for good greaseboard talk but nothing like practice.

I don't discount any NBA team so Knicks will have their hands full tonite. Kyrie will have some swagger!

GodSaveTheKnicks
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2/29/2012  10:59 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:I think what's essential is the Knicks find a solid low post game and incorporate Steve Novak into the offense more when Lin is being doubled or pressed. Notice when Stat and Anthony were both out, Novak played more and was Lin's safety valve on offense. If you want to double Lin, you have to leave someone open, if it's Novak and he's on, then he will rain fire down on you.

As for Lin, I think he just needs time. He was a shooting guard in college and is really a ball dominant slasher/scorer working on converting to a point guard. I think so far he's done a good job because he's essentially playing fundamental team basketball, which is not how most teams are built to defend. Most teams are built to defend the David Stern type NBA team, where one superstar goes into iso and attacks one on four with three shooters as a bail out option. I don't think defenses can adjust fast enough to a situation where Lin passes to Billy Walker when he's open, simply because he's open, when 99 percent of the rest of the league is built to ignore the open man and just give it to the superstar to chuck it up. It's sad to say, but true team ball is something most of these players probably haven't seen since middle school.

Eventually what I think will help turnovers will be D'Antoni being a little bit smarter about time outs and actually using them to give Lin a breather and let him reset his mind and kill the other teams momentum. I also think the rest of the league is starting to figure out Lin is a game changer and will start to see how far they can hurt him, hit him and abuse him physically until the refs say no more. In that way, I think the Knicks need to assign Lin an enforcer like Jeffries or Walker to give some guard the occasional forearm shiver. Let them know, if you want to hack Lin, get a free jab, throw an elbow when the refs aren't looking, I'm going to play classic Knicks ball on you, I'm going to hurt you some.

IMHO, I don't have a problem with Anthony in iso as long as he's doing it in the post. This gives Lin a breather from constantly having to try to create. The benefit of Novak also is that he stretches the floor and gives Chandler more room to operate in the paint. I think it's not just Melo, but the whole team, if you double or press Lin, the Knicks will make you pay for it, and pay so much for it, that you can't double him anymore, then Lin can use his slashing ability to tear apart a defense.

Unfortunately, for this season, I don't think Lin will be able to drop his turnover rate. Lots of point guards, even Gary Payton, had to struggle early. One of the things you hear commentators say is that when teams see Lin twice, they will adjust, I think it works both ways, when Lin has seen them twice, he will have seen what they can throw at him. Then its not a surprise anymore. This is where I think Lin excels, when he sees something, he learns from it, adjusts and tries to prevent repeating the mistake.

Thats 2 really long posts for your first 2.

You really want to challenge our Attention Deficit Disorders!

Triple Threat vs Ron Ron. Fight!

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
ChuckBuck
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2/29/2012  11:26 AM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:I think what's essential is the Knicks find a solid low post game and incorporate Steve Novak into the offense more when Lin is being doubled or pressed. Notice when Stat and Anthony were both out, Novak played more and was Lin's safety valve on offense. If you want to double Lin, you have to leave someone open, if it's Novak and he's on, then he will rain fire down on you.

As for Lin, I think he just needs time. He was a shooting guard in college and is really a ball dominant slasher/scorer working on converting to a point guard. I think so far he's done a good job because he's essentially playing fundamental team basketball, which is not how most teams are built to defend. Most teams are built to defend the David Stern type NBA team, where one superstar goes into iso and attacks one on four with three shooters as a bail out option. I don't think defenses can adjust fast enough to a situation where Lin passes to Billy Walker when he's open, simply because he's open, when 99 percent of the rest of the league is built to ignore the open man and just give it to the superstar to chuck it up. It's sad to say, but true team ball is something most of these players probably haven't seen since middle school.

Eventually what I think will help turnovers will be D'Antoni being a little bit smarter about time outs and actually using them to give Lin a breather and let him reset his mind and kill the other teams momentum. I also think the rest of the league is starting to figure out Lin is a game changer and will start to see how far they can hurt him, hit him and abuse him physically until the refs say no more. In that way, I think the Knicks need to assign Lin an enforcer like Jeffries or Walker to give some guard the occasional forearm shiver. Let them know, if you want to hack Lin, get a free jab, throw an elbow when the refs aren't looking, I'm going to play classic Knicks ball on you, I'm going to hurt you some.

IMHO, I don't have a problem with Anthony in iso as long as he's doing it in the post. This gives Lin a breather from constantly having to try to create. The benefit of Novak also is that he stretches the floor and gives Chandler more room to operate in the paint. I think it's not just Melo, but the whole team, if you double or press Lin, the Knicks will make you pay for it, and pay so much for it, that you can't double him anymore, then Lin can use his slashing ability to tear apart a defense.

Unfortunately, for this season, I don't think Lin will be able to drop his turnover rate. Lots of point guards, even Gary Payton, had to struggle early. One of the things you hear commentators say is that when teams see Lin twice, they will adjust, I think it works both ways, when Lin has seen them twice, he will have seen what they can throw at him. Then its not a surprise anymore. This is where I think Lin excels, when he sees something, he learns from it, adjusts and tries to prevent repeating the mistake.

Thats 2 really long posts for your first 2.

You really want to challenge our Attention Deficit Disorders!

Triple Threat vs Ron Ron. Fight!

Haha good one LOL. I really need to pop extra adderall when reading some of those longer posts.

Is It More Important For Carmelo to be More Efficient, Or For Lin To Cut His Turnovers?

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