ATrain wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

ATrain wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:It wasn't D'Antoni that wanted to gut a young improving team of multiple players that fit the system well and also give up the cap space and draft picks that could have been used to fill out the missing pieces for an overrated overpaid self centered Prima donna that doesn't fit with Amare or the coach's style.

And just how far would we have gone with this "young improving team"?

How far are we going now? backwards lol

Agreed but this nucleus has far greater potential.

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:If I could vote for both choices, I would have.

I want D'Antoni and Melo on the next bus outta here.
I honestly get the distinct feeling that most of his teammates
don't care for Melo. To me, he's a tough guy to warm up to
and his personna and body language tends to be negative.

ATrain wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:It wasn't D'Antoni that wanted to gut a young improving team of multiple players that fit the system well and also give up the cap space and draft picks that could have been used to fill out the missing pieces for an overrated overpaid self centered Prima donna that doesn't fit with Amare or the coach's style.

And just how far would we have gone with this "young improving team"?

If we kept that team, added Tyson Chandler with Curry's cap space (moved Turiaf or amnestied soeone else if necessary) we'd be massively better than we are now, we'd be loaded with young players that are still getting better, and still have our daft picks to fill out the team or trade. We'd clearly have enough assets to make other moves too.

ItalianStallion wrote:

ATrain wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

ATrain wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:It wasn't D'Antoni that wanted to gut a young improving team of multiple players that fit the system well and also give up the cap space and draft picks that could have been used to fill out the missing pieces for an overrated overpaid self centered Prima donna that doesn't fit with Amare or the coach's style.

And just how far would we have gone with this "young improving team"?

How far are we going now? backwards lol

Agreed but this nucleus has far greater potential.

This nucleus SUCKs because Melo is massively overrated and overpaid and we no longer have the cap space, assets, or picks to fill out our gutted team.

It's no accident that loads of people were so passionately against this trade. Some people understood that Melo was overrated and the deal would screw us up for years. Then the Knicks got worse and Denver got better further proving the point.

Melo is just another overrated over hyped ball stopping self centered chucker. He's no max player.

The only thing that will fix this team is trading him before everyone else in the NBA realizes it too. Without that trade, this team is going to be a train wreck until 2015/2016 and even worse if Amare starts going down as he ages.

The nucleus is STAT, Melo, Tyson and Shump. There's really nothing wrong with that as the core of your team. The only problem is finding a permanent solution at PG. Now you say we lack resources but that's not true. We still have our Room Exception, there are always smaller deals that can be made at the deadline and then you have the full MLE at the end of the year. This teams primary goal is to keep improving the talent around this core.

Tyson was a good signing. I like what he brings to the team and how the defense is coming along with him in the middle. Melo has struggled IMO mainly due to not having a PG to run the team and keep things working with the rest of the team. Melo could then do what he does best, which is score and rebound and close out games. We haven't gotten to see that this year without a PG. IMO once you have the PG in place it all comes together a lot better. Melo will still have flaws, but you can live with them for what he can give you in the big moment of big games.

Anji wrote:Sorry, but you can make the case that this is the worst coach in the NBA.

You can't masquerade this 7 seconds or mess as anything more than good players and great point guard play.

We know you can't get your star players shots because your offense is all about "ball movement", ie your point guard doing everything.

We know you can't even get your gunners like Novack or Billy walker when he is shooting out of his mind the ball, because it's not free flowing free love basketball, pie in the sky bull**** offense that weights every player equally open. So you whined up with smart teams playing up on your players making shots and playing off of JJ2.

That is such a great offense it blows my mind.
That unless you have 5 players that can equally make shots and pressure the defense equally at the same time, your offense falls a part because any team that has a brain pays more attention defensively to your players making shots. Leaving the players who don't want or can't make shots more open. And that's your offensive design, great master mind??? Good players making shots is our game plan!!! Fuck out of here!!!

Fire this guy tomorrow, the team getting hot doesn't change the fact that this guy basically rolls the balls out and crosses his fingers leaving everything up to what the defense gives us and what his point guard can do. Instead of actually imposing a game plan on the other team and making them react. This is why despite great talent this guy always lost, because there is always going to be a point when teams don't give you anything and you can't pray that your point guard finds what the other team is giving up. There is always going to be a point where the team playing against us doesn't have to neglect any area of the court to play great defense. And to likely get to this great team you either have to find perfect players or neglect the defensive side of the ball.

Fire Antoni!!!!!!

I will give you a bit of a pass for being upset after all the losses. That said, this post is the worst kind of mindless drivel that has been infesting this forum this year. Way too many posts that lack any kind of thought or logic. You're proving your lack of understanding of the game with every wild statement.

You think MDA is the product of great talent carrying him to success? OK then explain how he got to the WCF's without STAT and with Diaw as Center? Was that luck or him riding some super deep team with loads of talent. Diaw was a nobody when he came to PHX and he's not exactly a star now. Tell us all the great talent he had on that team that year. Tell us how they ended up being the 2nd best team in the West that year with no Center and no Amar'e. We'll give you time to look it up and break it down.

Also tell us how many MVP's Nash won before he played for D'Antoni? Tell us how Nash was already an MVP level Player and that's why the Mavs just let him walk. Cuz we all know how teams just let MVP caliber players walk for nothing. Nash just became a more efficient player in all facets out of the blue just cuz he was holding back the previous 7 years. MDA didn't help him in any way to improve, Nash just bucked all recorded history and made a major jump in his game late in his career when no one else has really ever done that.

MDA's offense is so bad that Coach K from Duke uses some of it and Popovich borrowed parts of it for his team too. Just cuz you don't understand the intricacies of the offense doesn't mean it's not valid. But of course you know more than Coach K and Popovich.

nixluva wrote:

Anji wrote:Sorry, but you can make the case that this is the worst coach in the NBA.

You can't masquerade this 7 seconds or mess as anything more than good players and great point guard play.

We know you can't get your star players shots because your offense is all about "ball movement", ie your point guard doing everything.

We know you can't even get your gunners like Novack or Billy walker when he is shooting out of his mind the ball, because it's not free flowing free love basketball, pie in the sky bull**** offense that weights every player equally open. So you whined up with smart teams playing up on your players making shots and playing off of JJ2.

That is such a great offense it blows my mind.
That unless you have 5 players that can equally make shots and pressure the defense equally at the same time, your offense falls a part because any team that has a brain pays more attention defensively to your players making shots. Leaving the players who don't want or can't make shots more open. And that's your offensive design, great master mind??? Good players making shots is our game plan!!! Fuck out of here!!!

Fire this guy tomorrow, the team getting hot doesn't change the fact that this guy basically rolls the balls out and crosses his fingers leaving everything up to what the defense gives us and what his point guard can do. Instead of actually imposing a game plan on the other team and making them react. This is why despite great talent this guy always lost, because there is always going to be a point when teams don't give you anything and you can't pray that your point guard finds what the other team is giving up. There is always going to be a point where the team playing against us doesn't have to neglect any area of the court to play great defense. And to likely get to this great team you either have to find perfect players or neglect the defensive side of the ball.

Fire Antoni!!!!!!

I will give you a bit of a pass for being upset after all the losses. That said, this post is the worst kind of mindless drivel that has been infesting this forum this year. Way too many posts that lack any kind of thought or logic. You're proving your lack of understanding of the game with every wild statement.

You think MDA is the product of great talent carrying him to success? OK then explain how he got to the WCF's without STAT and with Diaw as Center? Was that luck or him riding some super deep team with loads of talent. Diaw was a nobody when he came to PHX and he's not exactly a star now. Tell us all the great talent he had on that team that year. Tell us how they ended up being the 2nd best team in the West that year with no Center and no Amar'e. We'll give you time to look it up and break it down.

Also tell us how many MVP's Nash won before he played for D'Antoni? Tell us how Nash was already an MVP level Player and that's why the Mavs just let him walk. Cuz we all know how teams just let MVP caliber players walk for nothing. Nash just became a more efficient player in all facets out of the blue just cuz he was holding back the previous 7 years. MDA didn't help him in any way to improve, Nash just bucked all recorded history and made a major jump in his game late in his career when no one else has really ever done that.

MDA's offense is so bad that Coach K from Duke uses some of it and Popovich borrowed parts of it for his team too. Just cuz you don't understand the intricacies of the offense doesn't mean it's not valid. But of course you know more than Coach K and Popovich.

Ohh tough guy act Nixluva handing out passes???

Fuck off, nobody calls you thoughtless with all the drivel you've been posting for years on this site. I don't give two ****s about your Mike D talking points because as soon we hire another coach you are going to do your wiki/google thing and know everything is great and swallow that next mans nutts whole just like you do with MIke'D.

I talk about the knicks. I don't care about Nash, Dallas, Phoenix, Duke, Popovich, what ever other reason you've used to convinced your self this coach is great. I use the ole eyes buddy, and my eyes are telling me this guys sucks ass.

So there is no reason to flame me about knowing the intricacies of MD's offense, because since he's been the coach of the knicks NOBODY PLAYING FOR HIM seems understand them ya dumb bitch!!!

loweyecue wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Wow. What a load of horse$hit. The team was not driving toward sucess pre trade. We were almost 10 game sover 0.500 then worked our way to 2 games over 0.500. I get you like him but how about putting things that are true rather than false in his defense?

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't think management did him any favors in acquiring Anthony and amnestying Billups. In fact it appears there was a disregard for what he needs to be successful. However, I also think that the Berger article that quoted Warkenstein is right when he says D'Antoni is a roster specific coach. I don't think he is the problem this year and I don't think he was put in the position where he can succeed. That being said I do think he had done enough in the past to warrant termination. This year is different. He is not part of the problem but I also don't think he is capable of solving it.

So when was he put in a position to succeed during his tenure as a Knick's coach?

I think pre-trade last year he had the team closest to what he needs to run his style. I think we differ in opinion about how much success he is actually capable of achieving without a totally stacked roster and an mvp running the point.

Right pre-trade last year he had a team that he was driving towards success. He had put the hard work in, taken the early losses worked his way back to .500 and WHAM. He was once again put in a position to fail. will get fired this year, its a sad reflection of just how sick our franchise is.

Does he get credit for getting a team with huge holes in defense to 10 games above 500? Of course not. Then all the key players are involved in trade talks their performance takes a hit and you zero in in that one losing streak and you decide in your infinite wisdom the team was not being driven towards success? You should talk about horse$hit. I get it you hate him but if take your head out of your ass long enough maybe you will be able to see what people are talking about.

nixluva wrote:

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:If I could vote for both choices, I would have.

I want D'Antoni and Melo on the next bus outta here.
I honestly get the distinct feeling that most of his teammates
don't care for Melo. To me, he's a tough guy to warm up to
and his personna and body language tends to be negative.

Please! You'd be on your couch with pom poms if we had a good PG and STAT and Melo were beasting! Everything looks different when the team is clicking on all cylinders. IMO there's only one thing we need and that's to get the PG thing fixed. Melo will eventually get his mojo back and the team as a whole will look a lot better once we're healthy and have a PG who can run the show.

Keep drinking the MDA kool aid, Nix.
You're making more and more of an arse out of yourself
with your relentless talk of needing a PG and "running our sets."
Enough already! This team svcks and your act is becoming nauseating.

RonRon wrote:

nixluva wrote:Amare and Melo don't have to fit each other, they have to fit the TEAM. The system as it was designed isn't about wild 3's and never has been. I wish people would stop saying that. Just cuz we have players that aren't executing the offense properly doesn't mean that taking too many 3's is the design of the offense. The 3 does become a huge weapon when you execute on offense and go inside 1st. That's the actual goal of almost every play in MDA's playbook. Create spacing and then attack the basket. If the defense adjust well then you pass back out for the open and very high % 3pt shot. How else do you think he's had one of the most potent and efficient offense when it's run correctly. The proof is in the record.

2011-12 with TD, Shump, Bibby    - #15 in scoring, #24 in Offensive Efficiency
2010-11 with Felton, TD, CB      - #2  in scoring, #5  in Off. Eff.
2009-10 with Duhon, TD, Hughes   - #10 in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2008-09 with Duhon, Nate, Hughes - #4  in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2007-08 with Nash                - #3  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2006-07 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.
2005-06 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2004-05 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.

At the same time the team is #7 in the league in defensive efficiency, but you can't tell cuz any mistake we make is exaggerated cuz we can't score. People were made to hear he was using the same defensive system, but in all honesty this is the best defensive team performance he's ever had. If the offense was doing what it's supposed to do, this would be a top team. GIVE THIS MAN A PG AND ALL THE COMPLAINING STOPS!

Hoping our guards step up from here on out.

Nix, we have no post presence, Chandler was trying his best yesterday. Iman and TD are the only ones that can penetrate but it is ONLY to occasionally to break his man only. They both, can be the 2nd penetration guy, but we don't have a #1 guy. Aside from Iman and TD, virtually no one can even penetrate vs their own man, not to mention the help D. Watch TD and even Iman run the PnR, especially TD, 90% of the time he gets nothing accomplished, the 7.5% of the time, is a decent look for a chuck. Bibby tries to penetrate but he goes no where 99% of the time, look at all the charges we constantly get, So we have

NO POST PRESENCE, aside from Melo, TC, and Deandre Jordan???
how else can we get good shots? Our ball movement was good at times for the first quarter and beginning of the 2nd quarter
but it was mainly because Walker just hit incredible shots, they were not good shots.

In the 3rd quarter and beginning of the 4th quarter the line up was

TD
Bibby
Walker
JJ
Amare

this is a horrible unit, Bibby and JJ's men are constantly cheating but we can not expose it because the speed recovers with good defense.
Jordan should be in for JJ for these times, as JJ just isn't a threat and Lin should be in for Bibby.

look at how many 3's Miami took. They constantly attack, constantly push the tempo, and played great defense.
Sure we don't have the penetration that Lebron, Wade, even Cole provides the Heat with.

Miami changed their defense from 2-3 zone to 3-2 zone defending the 3point shot.
With great foot speed on Miami's side and rotation...

Lin is the only one capable of penetration, to break down that type of defense........

It's not so much that we don't have a post presence cuz in reality very few teams actually have a serious post presence. This isn't the 70's or 80's. The key to this offense is how do you score when you don't have a serious post player? That's why you have PnR, passing and motion with a spread floor. This allows you to have a VERY highly efficient offense. I post the stats so that you and everyone can see this offense has been one of the most efficient offenses in the last 8 years. That's not a gimmick! All you read is how this offense takes to many 3's and it can't work, but when you look at the FACTS of how this offense actually has performed over the years when it's been run by a decent to great PG, it shows a very successful result. Efficiency is a goal of any offense, so if MDA's offense was often #1-5 in Efficiency so long as we had at least a decent NBA PG, what does that tell you?

His offense was #1, #2, #1, #2 in successive years in PHX and then in NY with Duhon #17, #17 and then last year with Felton/STAT #5.
We need an upgrade at PG and a little more depth. That's what I see so far.