misterearl wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Baron was never the solution, though in the Mecca of Hype and Desperation, any change is a move for the good until that change is fulfilled and fails miserably. Not even another point guard, as I suggested earlier, is a solution because the problem is bigger than a simple player.

Yes, a point guard would in theory organize the offense and make a few of our issues look less debilitating, but if nobody sees there is something rotten in this team that needs to be solved, you simply aren't paying attention.

The best that can happen this season, and that is a longshot right now, is for this team to try to solve their issues, whatever they are, in time for a late run and make the playoffs. That depends on everybody being healthy and on the same page and the second part may be even harder to get than the first one.

I'd still try to get another PG however you can, bring Baron as slowly as necessary, and pray this group of athletes can behave like a team.

Too much to hope, I know.

Good, how do you propose we solve it? Waiting, hoping and praying are not solutions. What is it that the team should DO?

What we should look at doing is trading Fields and/or Douglas for a backup PG like Sessions or Ridnour. Also, signing either KMart or JR Smith is a good possibility in march. Suddenly the supporting cast has improved with 2 new pieces. This summer we have the opportunity to sign 1 very good starting PG with the mid-level, preferably Nash, and will also have the bi annual exception to add a player like Camby, Anthony Parker (who would be a great fit at SG) or possibly resign KMart. By the end of summer, we will have become a team built around our big 3 much better with strong depth. Here is an example of what our rotation could look like.

C Chandler
PF Stoudemire
SF Anthony
SG Parker
PG Nash
6th Shumpert
7th Ridnour
8th Martin
9th Harrellson

That is how you build a team.

"Thanks to constant roster turnover, The New York Knicks have not had a stable playing personality for over a decade. There are more former Knicks on other active rosters than any other franchise in the NBA. You do the math."

Teams are not built by trading players like baseball cards.

I understand your frustrations as a Knick's fan as it was a sour decade +
But all you have to stop bashing everyone's opinions in here, as we do have a lot of different ideas on what we need and how we can improve.
Majority of us know, the trade for Melo changed the identity of this team, losing depth, skilled players, draft picks, and most of chemistry.
There are obvious holes and problems with our roster, while we would all like to see the Knicks win.
Rebuilding isn't an option at this point, its just not realistic at all.
We already went all in with the deal for Melo, we won't the ability to start till Amare or/and Melo's contract ends.
Donnie Walsh was very close, half a season, or one summer away from completing his plan.
Yes, we could have had a bright future and the players we have right now don't really mesh well.
But regardless if its this year or next year, we will continue to build with what we have.
We will probably lose some players, especially with the 2nd rounders we have in Fields, Jorts, and Jordan.
With limited moves to make, without many draft picks, without the ability to add talent outside of the exemptions we have it isn't going to be easy but not impossible.
We are almost praying that talent will come to New York at deals to replenish some depth that we lost.
With that said, we still need to find cheap talents and deals that compliment what we have.
This is where I feel Lin fits that criteria and can see him being a great student, with the addition of our short term PG in the summer.
If we can add players like

Nash/Andre Miller
Camby/Bass
Anthony Parker, Grant Hill, JR Smith, Shannon Brown,
Ak47, Kmart, or maybe even an unexpected player.

With the improvement of Iman, Jorts, and Jordan, TD and hopefully we are right about Lin.
Trading is also an option, we won't know till the deadline, if we have a shot at restructuring our core.
It's at least nice to see Stat, starting to regain some of his explosive self that made him a MVP candidate last year.
We are currently struggling, everything looks bad, everyone is being questioned, and pointing fingers at each other.
We need to just win some games and regain some of that confidence, while our injuries heal, and chemistry develops.
There is no question that we do have talent on the roster, they are just not meshing right now.

Read my lips - Building a TEAM is more than swapping people like baseball cards

Much more.

What is the franchise personality?

What is the one thing that gives the franchise continuity, no matter who wears the uniform?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/sports/basketball/for-the-knicks-a-delusion-of-equality-in-triplicate.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

"For all their scoring prowess, neither Anthony nor Stoudemire is so well-rounded. Anthony, who was considered James’s equal when they were drafted in 2003, has neither James’s playmaking skills nor his defensive intensity. Stoudemire is similarly lacking. Both Stoudemire and Anthony demand the ball and a lot of shots. They have rarely thrived simultaneously, each player performing his best when the other is on the bench.

These subtleties are lost on Garden officials, who seem to approach roster-building like a fantasy basketball draft, with no regard for balance, chemistry or cohesion — to say nothing of depth. The Knicks would have been better off waiting for Deron Williams or Chris Paul, but they would not have generated the buzz or the cash to pay for part of the Garden’s $800 million renovation.

... The Knicks cannot win with Anthony taking 25 to 30 shots and making only a third of them. They cannot win without the tempo and ball movement that helps role players such as Landry Fields find their rhythm. It was no coincidence that the offense flowed better at Charlotte when Anthony took only seven shots.

For now, the Knicks remain an imbalanced team, with a talented, though ill-fitting frontcourt, a flimsy backcourt and a weak bench. Like the Miami Heat, they have three stars. But they are nothing like the Miami Heat."

Ouch.

nixluva wrote:The frontcourt isn't "ill fitting" as the writer suggests. Frontcourt players do what they do and it's the backcourt players that make the ball move and setup what the frontcourt players do. STAT and Melo can work so long as you have a PG to be the balancing act in the middle. All this conjecture about how they don't work is silly. Why do you think they wanted CP3 so much? A good PG makes the whole thing flow. You could stick any top 15 PG on this team and it would immediately run better. It's not rocket Science.

How about just any PG, period. They would definitely be better.

Bonn1997 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:This team is garbage.

The sooner people realize it, the better.

Is there a reason you post or do you actually have a plan for us to stop being garbage? Let's hear it.

I didn't know my posts affected you so much.

I apologize.

PS: Amare/Chandler for Howard/Turk, Carmelo for Deron.

It's not about what affects me, it's you all consuming negativity. So what happens if Orlando doesn't sniff that? What's plan B?

Rebuild..again.

This team, as constructed, is not designed to win because of 2 players who play the same. Amare and Carmelo just don't mesh well together. even with a point guard like Billups last year they still struggled to play well together at the same time. It's obvious to anyone that we're attempting to fit square pegs into round holes and the results are evident. Firing a coach wont change the overall problem of the team - that despite the nice, albeit overpaid, addition of Chandler, the rest of the team does not compliment each other well at all.

We should have traded all of what we traded for Anthony to get Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Carmelo Anthony just isn't worth it. Great scorer but provides nothing else.

None of my proposals will happen. Instead what will happen is D'Antoni being fired, Woodson replacing him until the end of the season, us begging Phil Jackson out of retirement and him declining, us then hiring *insert retread coach here* to replace D'Antoni/Woodson, us failing miserably again because of poor management and personnel and finally the firing of Grunwald and trading of Amare for what turns out to be more cap killing crap. And around, around we go on this ride we call The Dolan Express.

See? when you take the time to post you make a lot more sense. We agree about everything except he rebuild part. Living and dying by the lotterty and then endlessly trying to justify playig time for third string scrubs like Jordan Hill and AR is a sad proposition and shows complete lack of any type of plan.

It is misguided Isiah-like thinking that equates rebuilding with simply being a perennial lottery team that uses only the draft. (Ironically we look like a perennial lottery team anyway, though.)

Go ahead and guide is then. How would you rebuild?

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=40602&page=#900634

All your post said was build thru the draft, sign small contract FAs, blah blah blah, build thru the draft...UNTIL we eventually land a star to make the team better. How long would you rest- rinse - repeat? What if we dont get a star in the next 5 years? 10 years? 15?

Knixkik wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Baron was never the solution, though in the Mecca of Hype and Desperation, any change is a move for the good until that change is fulfilled and fails miserably. Not even another point guard, as I suggested earlier, is a solution because the problem is bigger than a simple player.

Yes, a point guard would in theory organize the offense and make a few of our issues look less debilitating, but if nobody sees there is something rotten in this team that needs to be solved, you simply aren't paying attention.

The best that can happen this season, and that is a longshot right now, is for this team to try to solve their issues, whatever they are, in time for a late run and make the playoffs. That depends on everybody being healthy and on the same page and the second part may be even harder to get than the first one.

I'd still try to get another PG however you can, bring Baron as slowly as necessary, and pray this group of athletes can behave like a team.

Too much to hope, I know.

Good, how do you propose we solve it? Waiting, hoping and praying are not solutions. What is it that the team should DO?

What we should look at doing is trading Fields and/or Douglas for a backup PG like Sessions or Ridnour. Also, signing either KMart or JR Smith is a good possibility in march. Suddenly the supporting cast has improved with 2 new pieces. This summer we have the opportunity to sign 1 very good starting PG with the mid-level, preferably Nash, and will also have the bi annual exception to add a player like Camby, Anthony Parker (who would be a great fit at SG) or possibly resign KMart. By the end of summer, we will have become a team built around our big 3 much better with strong depth. Here is an example of what our rotation could look like.

C Chandler
PF Stoudemire
SF Anthony
SG Parker
PG Nash
6th Shumpert
7th Ridnour
8th Martin
9th Harrellson

That is how you build a team.

First you said Baron is not the solution, then you said you would trade one of our starters in Fields for Sessions? Am I missing something?

As for signing KMart, ok I will buy that, but we just have to wait till March or whatever. Till then we suck and/or pray Baron fixes it.

JCrusher wrote:

nixluva wrote:We have our core minus a PG. STAT, Melo, Tyson, Shump, PG? This is why waiting on Baron is the only solution short of developing the guards we have. If Lin develops and can help that's great, but you still need an experienced PG for the playoffs.

we still ned to get to the playoff man lol. I mean there are other teams missing key players and yet they are still doing well. I mean if you think baron is gonna raise us from 10th to 3rd all of a sudden that a lttle crazy lol

We have to be third in the East to get to the playoffs? Since when? What other teams is dealing with a completely overhauled roster and missing a starting PG (PG is the MOST important piece in weaving the team together)

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

nixluva wrote:We have our core minus a PG. STAT, Melo, Tyson, Shump, PG? This is why waiting on Baron is the only solution short of developing the guards we have. If Lin develops and can help that's great, but you still need an experienced PG for the playoffs.

we still ned to get to the playoff man lol. I mean there are other teams missing key players and yet they are still doing well. I mean if you think baron is gonna raise us from 10th to 3rd all of a sudden that a lttle crazy lol

We have to be third in the East to get to the playoffs? Since when? What other teams is dealing with a completely overhauled roster and missing a starting PG (PG is the MOST important piece in weaving the team together)

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

nixluva wrote:We have our core minus a PG. STAT, Melo, Tyson, Shump, PG? This is why waiting on Baron is the only solution short of developing the guards we have. If Lin develops and can help that's great, but you still need an experienced PG for the playoffs.

we still ned to get to the playoff man lol. I mean there are other teams missing key players and yet they are still doing well. I mean if you think baron is gonna raise us from 10th to 3rd all of a sudden that a lttle crazy lol

We have to be third in the East to get to the playoffs? Since when? What other teams is dealing with a completely overhauled roster and missing a starting PG (PG is the MOST important piece in weaving the team together)

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying we have to be third im just saying that baron is not gonna solve all of our woes all of a sudden especially coming off an injury

No one thing will solve all our problems. But if you ranked all the things we eed to fix this mess, getting a starting PG that can pass and set up an offense is miles ahead of any other need.

JCrusher wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

nixluva wrote:We have our core minus a PG. STAT, Melo, Tyson, Shump, PG? This is why waiting on Baron is the only solution short of developing the guards we have. If Lin develops and can help that's great, but you still need an experienced PG for the playoffs.

we still ned to get to the playoff man lol. I mean there are other teams missing key players and yet they are still doing well. I mean if you think baron is gonna raise us from 10th to 3rd all of a sudden that a lttle crazy lol

We have to be third in the East to get to the playoffs? Since when? What other teams is dealing with a completely overhauled roster and missing a starting PG (PG is the MOST important piece in weaving the team together)

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying we have to be third im just saying that baron is not gonna solve all of our woes all of a sudden especially coming off an injury

No one thing will solve all our problems. But if you ranked all the things we eed to fix this mess, getting a starting PG that can pass and set up an offense is miles ahead of any other need.

Im not saying you're wrong but im just saying dont expect a huge turnaround unless our other problems go away and nobody can predict that. not being negative just honest

how can you be honest about something you can't predict? LOL

JCrusher wrote:

martin wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

nixluva wrote:We have our core minus a PG. STAT, Melo, Tyson, Shump, PG? This is why waiting on Baron is the only solution short of developing the guards we have. If Lin develops and can help that's great, but you still need an experienced PG for the playoffs.

we still ned to get to the playoff man lol. I mean there are other teams missing key players and yet they are still doing well. I mean if you think baron is gonna raise us from 10th to 3rd all of a sudden that a lttle crazy lol

We have to be third in the East to get to the playoffs? Since when? What other teams is dealing with a completely overhauled roster and missing a starting PG (PG is the MOST important piece in weaving the team together)

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying we have to be third im just saying that baron is not gonna solve all of our woes all of a sudden especially coming off an injury

No one thing will solve all our problems. But if you ranked all the things we eed to fix this mess, getting a starting PG that can pass and set up an offense is miles ahead of any other need.

Im not saying you're wrong but im just saying dont expect a huge turnaround unless our other problems go away and nobody can predict that. not being negative just honest

how can you be honest about something you can't predict? LOL

What im saying is that some think baron will all of a sudden make us lok great. If you want my honest opinion even when baron comes back it will take time for him to get into a groove. So if you were trying to make fun of me or act like a twat it really didn't work.

Again, no one actually thinks Davis will save us. We have said he will make us better and he will. Of course it will take time, roster overhauls just dont work themselves out in the first 15 games. At this point I wouldn't make any trades unless it's Amare for Dwight (NOT BOTH amare and Tyson). I would just wait to see what it is that we have here and we haven't seen it because the piece that makes it whole is missing. I am not suggesting ORL would trade DH for Amare, I am saying I am not interested in overpaying for defensive C, when we already have one. Tyson owned DH when we played them, I am good with that.

What I think will happen is MDA gets canned, then PJax denies coming here and we are stuck with Woodson. We are witnessing a trainwreck in slow motion. Someone had a good analogy about being on the titanic and trying to change seats. There is no obvious way out, IIWII. Sometims you just take your lumps and keep plugging away.