Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

islesfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:I would trade Melo for a unprotected second round pick and a trade exception. I'm serious. He's that bad. We could easily fill his 18m with solid role players and draft picks that on a net basis would make the team better.

There is a huge difference between talent and playing basketball well.

Melo is an terrific basketball talent, but he's a terrible basketball player.

Some aspects of basketball are obvious, but offense is not.

The key to offense is NOT how many points you score or the degree of difficultly of the shots you are capable of making late in the shot clock.

The key to offense is knowing what your strengths are, staying with those, and not turning the ball over. It's about scoring efficiency, moving the ball when you don't have a great look, and not doing dumb things that lead to TOs.

Melo is terrible at all those things.

He's incapable of changing and becoming a good basketball player because he lacks the basic BBall intelligence to understand how to play the game properly and has an ego that's too big to allow him to listen to those that try to make him better (just ask George Karl).

Right now Gallo is already a better and more productive player than Melo even up. He may not be as talented and may not be able to do some of the things Melo can, but he's knows what he's good at (going to the basket to getting to FT line, open 3s, and scoring in transition) and sticks with it. That's why his TS% is a whopping 60+% and he doesn't turn the ball over much. Compare that to Melo's below average 52% and TO machine playing style.

I agree but realistically we're stuck with Melo. The only chance and it's a slim one of this working out decently is if a coach like Pat Riley came in and took a tough love approach with Melo.

We're stuck with Dolan.

We're stuck with Amare's uninsureable contract.

We're fortunate to have a top 10 talent in Carmelo.

Proof is in the pudding. I'll believe it when I see it. So far I've seen nothing to confirm what you're saying.

Yeas, because you've never seen him play in Denver? Cut the nonsense, you know Anthony is one of the top players in this league. He was off to a very good start this year (30 plus in 3-4 straight I believe). Bad play coinsides with his wrist injury. The off shooting will not last....

I've seen a lot of Denver since the trade!

The teams with Melo in Denver played reasonably well in spite of, not because of, Carmelo's inefficiency on offense. Billups and Nene are each extremely efficient on offense (look at TS%, not FG%), which compensated for Carmelo.

Go ask Denver fans if they want him back.

In spite of? Its obvious you dont like Anthony, for you've been Anti-Everything when it comes to Anthony which makes it near impossible to have an unbiased conversation with you about him. Denver was a bottom feeder unitl they drafted Melo. Went to the playoffs every year since. Lost early in the playoffs because the teams they played (Mainly the Lakers and Spurs) were better and had home court advantage. Melo was awesome in their run to the western conference finals. Of course Billups helped, but he was the pg piece that they needed to advance.

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

islesfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:I would trade Melo for a unprotected second round pick and a trade exception. I'm serious. He's that bad. We could easily fill his 18m with solid role players and draft picks that on a net basis would make the team better.

There is a huge difference between talent and playing basketball well.

Melo is an terrific basketball talent, but he's a terrible basketball player.

Some aspects of basketball are obvious, but offense is not.

The key to offense is NOT how many points you score or the degree of difficultly of the shots you are capable of making late in the shot clock.

The key to offense is knowing what your strengths are, staying with those, and not turning the ball over. It's about scoring efficiency, moving the ball when you don't have a great look, and not doing dumb things that lead to TOs.

Melo is terrible at all those things.

He's incapable of changing and becoming a good basketball player because he lacks the basic BBall intelligence to understand how to play the game properly and has an ego that's too big to allow him to listen to those that try to make him better (just ask George Karl).

Right now Gallo is already a better and more productive player than Melo even up. He may not be as talented and may not be able to do some of the things Melo can, but he's knows what he's good at (going to the basket to getting to FT line, open 3s, and scoring in transition) and sticks with it. That's why his TS% is a whopping 60+% and he doesn't turn the ball over much. Compare that to Melo's below average 52% and TO machine playing style.

I agree but realistically we're stuck with Melo. The only chance and it's a slim one of this working out decently is if a coach like Pat Riley came in and took a tough love approach with Melo.

We're stuck with Dolan.

We're stuck with Amare's uninsureable contract.

We're fortunate to have a top 10 talent in Carmelo.

Proof is in the pudding. I'll believe it when I see it. So far I've seen nothing to confirm what you're saying.

Yeas, because you've never seen him play in Denver? Cut the nonsense, you know Anthony is one of the top players in this league. He was off to a very good start this year (30 plus in 3-4 straight I believe). Bad play coinsides with his wrist injury. The off shooting will not last....

I've seen a lot of Denver since the trade!

The teams with Melo in Denver played reasonably well in spite of, not because of, Carmelo's inefficiency on offense. Billups and Nene are each extremely efficient on offense (look at TS%, not FG%), which compensated for Carmelo.

Go ask Denver fans if they want him back.

In spite of? Its obvious you dont like Anthony, for you've been Anti-Everything when it comes to Anthony which makes it near impossible to have an unbiased conversation with you about him. Denver was a bottom feeder unitl they drafted Melo. Went to the playoffs every year since. Lost early in the playoffs because the teams they played (Mainly the Lakers and Spurs) were better and had home court advantage. Melo was awesome in their run to the western conference finals. Of course Billups helped, but he was the pg piece that they needed to advance.

Personally, I wouldn't say I am PRO or Anti Anthony. Listen he is a great player and he can score. However, I am anti the trade for Melo. I believe we could have been competitive and legit contenders this year alone, being much improved than our team last year *pre Melo* and MANY years to come, within this decade, with Iman, Jort. and FA signings last summer.

We were playing with chemistry, ball movement, great depth, and multiple weapons/mismatches, while being a good/great defensive team for the rest of the decade. Instead, I think, we went 3 steps back with the trade.

Basketball is a team sport, a bench is needed, players are needed, NO CHAMPIONSHIP is built on 3 players, there are many roles to fill.
The trade for Melo, with very limited picks, and having Amare + Melo getting max, limits our ability to land good young FAs.

With some discounts signings in the summer, mostly aged veterans, I can see a short window closing soon on us. We probably can become legit contenders next year, if we get the right players, *discount needed*, but with the way we are playing, it's not attractive at all for them to come, especially for a discount.
We can have a short span of competing, like Boston and the Pistons did, but I think we could have been deep, with flexibility had Walsh finished his job.
That is my honest, belief, that we traded for, having 1 contract at Max vs having 2 players at Max with no depth is not comparable.
Who cares if Dolan has to pay 90million a year with our older team, with Gallo making a salary of 12m, The Mayor making 8-10m starting, and Tyson Chandler making the same salary. With Jorts possibly making 4-7m, Iman making w/e by the time he does, Amare will be gone and done, without athleticism and a post game.
It's not our problem, we have been patient enough since our 1999 run, with all those terrible mistakes, we were half a season away.
Felton would have expired this year, with all these PGs coming in, and with the rest of the strong FA class this coming summer.
If we added Chandler to that core, playing the same style, with good/great defense, WE WOULD HAVE ATTRACTED players. Everyone loves to play with a team that runs, moves the ball, plays good defense, and plays "right"....

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

islesfan wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:I would trade Melo for a unprotected second round pick and a trade exception. I'm serious. He's that bad. We could easily fill his 18m with solid role players and draft picks that on a net basis would make the team better.

There is a huge difference between talent and playing basketball well.

Melo is an terrific basketball talent, but he's a terrible basketball player.

Some aspects of basketball are obvious, but offense is not.

The key to offense is NOT how many points you score or the degree of difficultly of the shots you are capable of making late in the shot clock.

The key to offense is knowing what your strengths are, staying with those, and not turning the ball over. It's about scoring efficiency, moving the ball when you don't have a great look, and not doing dumb things that lead to TOs.

Melo is terrible at all those things.

He's incapable of changing and becoming a good basketball player because he lacks the basic BBall intelligence to understand how to play the game properly and has an ego that's too big to allow him to listen to those that try to make him better (just ask George Karl).

Right now Gallo is already a better and more productive player than Melo even up. He may not be as talented and may not be able to do some of the things Melo can, but he's knows what he's good at (going to the basket to getting to FT line, open 3s, and scoring in transition) and sticks with it. That's why his TS% is a whopping 60+% and he doesn't turn the ball over much. Compare that to Melo's below average 52% and TO machine playing style.

I agree but realistically we're stuck with Melo. The only chance and it's a slim one of this working out decently is if a coach like Pat Riley came in and took a tough love approach with Melo.

We're stuck with Dolan.

We're stuck with Amare's uninsureable contract.

We're fortunate to have a top 10 talent in Carmelo.

Proof is in the pudding. I'll believe it when I see it. So far I've seen nothing to confirm what you're saying.

Yeas, because you've never seen him play in Denver? Cut the nonsense, you know Anthony is one of the top players in this league. He was off to a very good start this year (30 plus in 3-4 straight I believe). Bad play coinsides with his wrist injury. The off shooting will not last....

I've seen a lot of Denver since the trade!

The teams with Melo in Denver played reasonably well in spite of, not because of, Carmelo's inefficiency on offense. Billups and Nene are each extremely efficient on offense (look at TS%, not FG%), which compensated for Carmelo.

Go ask Denver fans if they want him back.

Bynum and Gasol compensate for Kobe.
Wade and Bosh compensate for LeBron in fourth quarters.

see what I did there?

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you made statements that, unlike mine, are unsupportable.

Okay, genius.

Tell me how Melo was carried by his teammates to the WCF when he averaged 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3PG. That includes a game winning three-pointer in Dallas and him dropping 40 points against the eventual champions in the first game of their series.

Bonn1997 wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you made statements that, unlike mine, are unsupportable.

Okay, genius.

Tell me how Melo was carried by his teammates to the WCF when he averaged 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3PG. That includes a game winning three-pointer in Dallas and him dropping 40 points against the eventual champions in the first game of their series.

Your tone suggests you don't want a real conversation and I have no reason to engage you in the conversation.

Tones aren't discernible via text. Go back to your cave.

Bonn1997 wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you made statements that, unlike mine, are unsupportable.

Okay, genius.

Tell me how Melo was carried by his teammates to the WCF when he averaged 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3PG. That includes a game winning three-pointer in Dallas and him dropping 40 points against the eventual champions in the first game of their series.

Your tone suggests you don't want a real conversation and I have no reason to engage you in the conversation.

Tones aren't discernible via text. Go back to your cave.

"OK genius." "Go back to your cave." It sounds like you want only two things:
A) Only to hear from people who agree with you;
B) to mock people who disagree with you.

Why go on a discussion forum if you don't want a discussion?

Then please support your supportable stance. I'm all ears.

I'll respond when I get back from the gym.

RonRon wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you made statements that, unlike mine, are unsupportable.

Okay, genius.

Tell me how Melo was carried by his teammates to the WCF when he averaged 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3PG. That includes a game winning three-pointer in Dallas and him dropping 40 points against the eventual champions in the first game of their series.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/career;_ylt=AtTSvciYyQwmy_bftIaYaBMdPKB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/gamelog;_ylt=Aj5if17OC7OhX1f2D02cbHkdPKB4?year=2004

http://www.lakersweb.net/yearbyyear/lalakers_2004_2005.htm

You do not win with 1 player, my example is in the links above. Stats are overrated, its a measure for players to earn "all star status" endorsements, contracts, promote fame and ,unfortunately, win some fans. You are the one of the examples that stats and emotions have taken your ability to analyze and think with your brain...

Ummm... he had big numbers that year because he played alongside trash, and despite playing with trash, he carried the team to the playoffs single handedly in a loaded conference and had a 3-1 lead over a higher seeded team.

Regardless of the stats, Melo was clearly the best player on that WCF team to anyone with a brain that watched them. His impact on the team transcended anyone else's.

The hard reality is the MDA complex offense takes time to master. We had a short camp.

A short preseason, and many off season changes.

Tyson had no camp.

Many of our bench also came in after camp started.

Anyone expecting to contend early is as disillusioned as those that want to rid of him before 20 games are even played.

This team, like many in the league will improve as the season continues. Maybe we rise more because of our high level of talent and given potential.

Contend this year? Was it ever really that realistic given our bench?

MDA says we could contend? Of course he does, players and coaches all say things to help sell tickets and do the "rah rah".

Proof is in the games. Tune in and watch or read about it afterwards.

Nalod wrote:
Individual talent when woven into a fabric of a team concept is not an easy task.

The hard reality is the MDA complex offense takes time to master. We had a short camp.

A short preseason, and many off season changes.

Tyson had no camp.

Many of our bench also came in after camp started.

Anyone expecting to contend early is as disillusioned as those that want to rid of him before 20 games are even played.

This team, like many in the league will improve as the season continues. Maybe we rise more because of our high level of talent and given potential.

Contend this year? Was it ever really that realistic given our bench?

MDA says we could contend? Of course he does, players and coaches all say things to help sell tickets and do the "rah rah".

Proof is in the games. Tune in and watch or read about it afterwards.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Individual talent when woven into a fabric of a team concept is not an easy task.

The hard reality is the MDA complex offense takes time to master. We had a short camp.

A short preseason, and many off season changes.

Tyson had no camp.

Many of our bench also came in after camp started.

Anyone expecting to contend early is as disillusioned as those that want to rid of him before 20 games are even played.

This team, like many in the league will improve as the season continues. Maybe we rise more because of our high level of talent and given potential.

Contend this year? Was it ever really that realistic given our bench?

MDA says we could contend? Of course he does, players and coaches all say things to help sell tickets and do the "rah rah".

Proof is in the games. Tune in and watch or read about it afterwards.

That would be the case if the basis for trading him were just a 20 game sample. (I do agree with many of the other things you said though.)

Im not an apolgist and I did no want this trade.

But, Last year sample of 25 games with Amare at the 5 and BIllups breaking down was not a good sample. Our bench was depleted and while Extra E stepped up, Fields fell down.

This years dynamic is way different and about to change if Baron can play and be healthy.

As bad as this team has been, it could change and change quick.

Im still sticking to my 35 win predictions.

I'd say our playoff run really depends on who we play in the first round.

The "Banish MDA if we get bounced in the first round" is silly. Only a blowout would cause concern.

Go 6 games against miami and lose won't be a reason.

Get swept by the Hawks would.

airchibundo507 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Yes, you made statements that, unlike mine, are unsupportable.

Okay, genius.

Tell me how Melo was carried by his teammates to the WCF when he averaged 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 45.3% FG, 36.4% 3PG. That includes a game winning three-pointer in Dallas and him dropping 40 points against the eventual champions in the first game of their series.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/career;_ylt=AtTSvciYyQwmy_bftIaYaBMdPKB4

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/gamelog;_ylt=Aj5if17OC7OhX1f2D02cbHkdPKB4?year=2004

http://www.lakersweb.net/yearbyyear/lalakers_2004_2005.htm

You do not win with 1 player, my example is in the links above. Stats are overrated, its a measure for players to earn "all star status" endorsements, contracts, promote fame and ,unfortunately, win some fans. You are the one of the examples that stats and emotions have taken your ability to analyze and think with your brain...

Ummm... he had big numbers that year because he played alongside trash, and despite playing with trash, he carried the team to the playoffs single handedly in a loaded conference and had a 3-1 lead over a higher seeded team.

Regardless of the stats, Melo was clearly the best player on that WCF team to anyone with a brain that watched them. His impact on the team transcended anyone else's.

Billups
Affalo
Melo
Martin
Nene

JR Smith
Birdman
Lawson
Petro

that team is not trash, had they kept Camby instead of trading him for a 2nd round pick, they would have been quite deep.

Affalo
Lawson

were both rookies that contributed their first years and continue to develop today.

My point in showing you Kobe's performance that year, is because he had his argueuabally his best peformance that year, after trading Shaq.
That was the year he scored amazing points and had the biggest career games but you do not win with one player.
As great as the numbers were and how many 30+ pt games and much more that year, they were a lotto team, and drafted Bynum in the summer.
You put too much emphasize on stats created by one player vs the production as a team.
Imagine a team Kobe and Melo on the same team, they could put up sick numbers just like Allen Iverson did when he played in Denver with Melo.
Without Gasol or Bynum, they would have no shot, to being legit contenders.

Without talent and the right players around them, they would put up sick numbers, but that doesn't translate to wins.
Basketball is a team game, not a an individual performance. It is better to have 1 "scorer" than 2 "scorers" that do not contribute improve the production of players around them. We already had Amare, at that role, depth, and players to compliment each other are very under rated.
Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Felton were not role players, they might not be in the same caliber as Melo at the trade, but they were far more balanced and fitted the team better. They are still young and have not peaked at all, while Melo has peaked already. Not to mention the ability to still add salary, draft picks, MozGoV, and AR can produce or be assets.