colombian0725 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:LOL

This Denver team is about have major cash tied up in rotational players. Stars win Championships. Have fun competing for the lower 4 playoff spots in the West.

[Sarcasm]
Utah is 9-4. They won that Deron Williams trade. Better than the Lakers for 2nd in the west.
[/Sarcasm]

The problem is that we too have zero stars, or at least zero stars who are worth having.

Aw jeez. Here we go again. Melo is absolutely a star and is probably Playing better than he did in Denver. Letting your frustration with the Knicks over the last ten years overshadow this guy who is doing it on BOTH sides of the ball and trying to carry the team is not fair. He is trying to do what is being asked of him, so why keep dissing on the guy? Is his hard work worth any less because he is a star? Melo is not AI, not by a long shot.

When I say zero stars, I'm looking at the players over the course of their careers. Melo has played too few games as a Knick for them to be given a lot of weight. I'd have at best a mixed evaluation of him this year anyway, though, and he still doesn't look to me like he'd be the primary scoring option on a contending team.

Where was Melo before they drafted him? Where are they after him? Did his trade put them into position to get 3/4 of our starters back? If Melo wasn't dealt and walked away during the summer where would the Nuggets be? Lottery team? They wouldn't have Gallo and wouldn't have been able to deal Felton.

I don't know who you are addressing and I am not sure I understand your post.

loweyecue wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:LOL

This Denver team is about have major cash tied up in rotational players. Stars win Championships. Have fun competing for the lower 4 playoff spots in the West.

[Sarcasm]
Utah is 9-4. They won that Deron Williams trade. Better than the Lakers for 2nd in the west.
[/Sarcasm]

The problem is that we too have zero stars, or at least zero stars who are worth having.

Aw jeez. Here we go again. Melo is absolutely a star and is probably Playing better than he did in Denver. Letting your frustration with the Knicks over the last ten years overshadow this guy who is doing it on BOTH sides of the ball and trying to carry the team is not fair. He is trying to do what is being asked of him, so why keep dissing on the guy? Is his hard work worth any less because he is a star? Melo is not AI, not by a long shot.

When I say zero stars, I'm looking at the players over the course of their careers. Melo has played too few games as a Knick for them to be given a lot of weight. I'd have at best a mixed evaluation of him this year anyway, though, and he still doesn't look to me like he'd be the primary scoring option on a contending team.

Where was Melo before they drafted him? Where are they after him? Did his trade put them into position to get 3/4 of our starters back? If Melo wasn't dealt and walked away during the summer where would the Nuggets be? Lottery team? They wouldn't have Gallo and wouldn't have been able to deal Felton.

I don't know who you are addressing and I am not sure I understand your post.

I quoted the wrong post. I was saying people talk about how Denver is better off with Melo. But it wasn't until Melo got there that they became a playoff team. If Melo left without getting something for him (like our players) Denver would be a lottery team without melo.

colombian0725 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:LOL

This Denver team is about have major cash tied up in rotational players. Stars win Championships. Have fun competing for the lower 4 playoff spots in the West.

[Sarcasm]
Utah is 9-4. They won that Deron Williams trade. Better than the Lakers for 2nd in the west.
[/Sarcasm]

The problem is that we too have zero stars, or at least zero stars who are worth having.

Aw jeez. Here we go again. Melo is absolutely a star and is probably Playing better than he did in Denver. Letting your frustration with the Knicks over the last ten years overshadow this guy who is doing it on BOTH sides of the ball and trying to carry the team is not fair. He is trying to do what is being asked of him, so why keep dissing on the guy? Is his hard work worth any less because he is a star? Melo is not AI, not by a long shot.

When I say zero stars, I'm looking at the players over the course of their careers. Melo has played too few games as a Knick for them to be given a lot of weight. I'd have at best a mixed evaluation of him this year anyway, though, and he still doesn't look to me like he'd be the primary scoring option on a contending team.

Where was Melo before they drafted him? Where are they after him? Did his trade put them into position to get 3/4 of our starters back? If Melo wasn't dealt and walked away during the summer where would the Nuggets be? Lottery team? They wouldn't have Gallo and wouldn't have been able to deal Felton.

I don't know who you are addressing and I am not sure I understand your post.

I quoted the wrong post. I was saying people talk about how Denver is better off with Melo. But it wasn't until Melo got there that they became a playoff team. If Melo left without getting something for him (like our players) Denver would be a lottery team without melo.

Ok no worries. I don't know that they would be a lottery team but I agree in general.

RonRon wrote:I am not bringing this up to prove he is right or wrong.
Its because I think that we had the formula do compete for a decade if Donnie Walsh finished his job.
While, we aren't finished rebuilding yet, Denver isn't finished either.
But if Donnie was able to finish him job, we would have been contenders this year and would be looking pretty good.

That team was running a team concept, Dantoni's system, and we had chemistry, exactly what we are missing now.

You see where I cut your post off? There is a reason for this.

Donnie and D'Antoni were building a team, then Fat Dolan stepped in and Starphucked.

That's it. It's not more complicated than that.

An obese moron without a clue stepped in and forced a basketball decision. Look no further.

Simplest solution is best.

Take Dolan out of the equation and Donnie and Mike have this team purring like a beautiful jungle cat for the next 10 years.

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

RonRon wrote:I am not bringing this up to prove he is right or wrong.
Its because I think that we had the formula do compete for a decade if Donnie Walsh finished his job.
While, we aren't finished rebuilding yet, Denver isn't finished either.
But if Donnie was able to finish him job, we would have been contenders this year and would be looking pretty good.

That team was running a team concept, Dantoni's system, and we had chemistry, exactly what we are missing now.

You see where I cut your post off? There is a reason for this.

Donnie and D'Antoni were building a team, then Fat Dolan stepped in and Starphucked.

That's it. It's not more complicated than that.

An obese moron without a clue stepped in and forced a basketball decision. Look no further.

Simplest solution is best.

Take Dolan out of the equation and Donnie and Mike have this team purring like a beautiful jungle cat for the next 10 years.

I agree, we had a lot of mixed reviews in the forum here after the trade.
Some felt Melo is 10x better than the players we traded and we "have" to to get an all star like Melo.
Now that we have him and he is putting up good numbers and we are playing horrible, with no system, we are pointing fingers all over.
It's not about how good Melo is, its about our teams abilities to play under the system and what we lack.

We tried to move the bball last game but we couldn't even get a good look vs the zone.
We blame Iman for taking too many shots and trying to take over the game but we don't blame Melo when he takes bad shots.
Would Iman play the same way if we had the chemistry, team effort, and skilled players in so many positions?
I don't think so...

colombian0725 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:LOL

This Denver team is about have major cash tied up in rotational players. Stars win Championships. Have fun competing for the lower 4 playoff spots in the West.

[Sarcasm]
Utah is 9-4. They won that Deron Williams trade. Better than the Lakers for 2nd in the west.
[/Sarcasm]

The problem is that we too have zero stars, or at least zero stars who are worth having.

Aw jeez. Here we go again. Melo is absolutely a star and is probably Playing better than he did in Denver. Letting your frustration with the Knicks over the last ten years overshadow this guy who is doing it on BOTH sides of the ball and trying to carry the team is not fair. He is trying to do what is being asked of him, so why keep dissing on the guy? Is his hard work worth any less because he is a star? Melo is not AI, not by a long shot.

When I say zero stars, I'm looking at the players over the course of their careers. Melo has played too few games as a Knick for them to be given a lot of weight. I'd have at best a mixed evaluation of him this year anyway, though, and he still doesn't look to me like he'd be the primary scoring option on a contending team.

Where was Melo before they drafted him? Where are they after him? Did his trade put them into position to get 3/4 of our starters back? If Melo wasn't dealt and walked away during the summer where would the Nuggets be? Lottery team? They wouldn't have Gallo and wouldn't have been able to deal Felton.

joec32033 wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

MS wrote:At least the Knicks did their due dilligence.

And don't worry once the Nets panick we can trade Carmelo for DWill and sign Chandler with the midelevel and have a balanced unselfish team again. Everyone wins.

Amare is the weakest link. Can't rebound, worst starting PF in the NBA(he even sucks on team D/help D). Needs a point guard to get his shot.

Melo/Dwill passing and scoring and defense and duration. Dwill/Stat pick and roll but defensively worst and passing is worst. Amare's One injury away from retirement... Did I mention he is the worst starting defender in the NBA? I've seen guys who play pick up games put more effort on D.

Just a dumb statement right there. You should say "Happy April Fools" just to save face. Amare is far from the worst. I like Amare, liked him when he got here. Liked him all last season. In all honest he reminded me of Larry Johnson in terms of leadership and intangibles and I am completely dumbfounded by the shrinking violet he became when Melo came. He showed balls signing here but they liked dropped in reverse when Melo got here.

Just because Melo is the best player it does not make him by default the leader. I never saw Melo as a leader, even after we got him.

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

MS wrote:At least the Knicks did their due dilligence.

And don't worry once the Nets panick we can trade Carmelo for DWill and sign Chandler with the midelevel and have a balanced unselfish team again. Everyone wins.

Amare is the weakest link. Can't rebound, worst starting PF in the NBA(he even sucks on team D/help D). Needs a point guard to get his shot.

Melo/Dwill passing and scoring and defense and duration. Dwill/Stat pick and roll but defensively worst and passing is worst. Amare's One injury away from retirement... Did I mention he is the worst starting defender in the NBA? I've seen guys who play pick up games put more effort on D.

Just a dumb statement right there. You should say "Happy April Fools" just to save face. Amare is far from the worst. I like Amare, liked him when he got here. Liked him all last season. In all honest he reminded me of Larry Johnson in terms of leadership and intangibles and I am completely dumbfounded by the shrinking violet he became when Melo came. He showed balls signing here but they liked dropped in reverse when Melo got here.

Just because Melo is the best player it does not make him by default the leader. I never saw Melo as a leader, even after we got him.

There are some people on ths board who are melo fans and think he is our savior even though this team has been worse since his arrival

He's not supposed to be a savior, but a major part of the equation. Team hasn't been designed around him properly yet. He brought a team to the playoffs every year without another star. The package of players we sent for him are not playoffs leading players. People who don't like the trade are always going to hate every Knick trade and hold out hope for some hypothetical scenario where we always have flexibility, the idea of a future without a real plan, and the idea that someday we will draft our own superstars.

joec32033 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

MS wrote:At least the Knicks did their due dilligence.

And don't worry once the Nets panick we can trade Carmelo for DWill and sign Chandler with the midelevel and have a balanced unselfish team again. Everyone wins.

Amare is the weakest link. Can't rebound, worst starting PF in the NBA(he even sucks on team D/help D). Needs a point guard to get his shot.

Melo/Dwill passing and scoring and defense and duration. Dwill/Stat pick and roll but defensively worst and passing is worst. Amare's One injury away from retirement... Did I mention he is the worst starting defender in the NBA? I've seen guys who play pick up games put more effort on D.

Just a dumb statement right there. You should say "Happy April Fools" just to save face. Amare is far from the worst. I like Amare, liked him when he got here. Liked him all last season. In all honest he reminded me of Larry Johnson in terms of leadership and intangibles and I am completely dumbfounded by the shrinking violet he became when Melo came. He showed balls signing here but they liked dropped in reverse when Melo got here.

Just because Melo is the best player it does not make him by default the leader. I never saw Melo as a leader, even after we got him.

There are some people on ths board who are melo fans and think he is our savior even though this team has been worse since his arrival

He's not supposed to be a savior, but a major part of the equation. Team hasn't been designed around him properly yet. He brought a team to the playoffs every year without another star. The package of players we sent for him are not playoffs leading players. People who don't like the trade are always going to hate every Knick trade and hold out hope for some hypothetical scenario where we always have flexibility, the idea of a future without a real plan, and the idea that someday we will draft our own superstars.

The only problem I had with the trade was trading Felton. Amare needs to know while Melo may be the "talent" , he is the heart and soul of this team.

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

MS wrote:At least the Knicks did their due dilligence.

And don't worry once the Nets panick we can trade Carmelo for DWill and sign Chandler with the midelevel and have a balanced unselfish team again. Everyone wins.

Amare is the weakest link. Can't rebound, worst starting PF in the NBA(he even sucks on team D/help D). Needs a point guard to get his shot.

Melo/Dwill passing and scoring and defense and duration. Dwill/Stat pick and roll but defensively worst and passing is worst. Amare's One injury away from retirement... Did I mention he is the worst starting defender in the NBA? I've seen guys who play pick up games put more effort on D.

Just a dumb statement right there. You should say "Happy April Fools" just to save face. Amare is far from the worst. I like Amare, liked him when he got here. Liked him all last season. In all honest he reminded me of Larry Johnson in terms of leadership and intangibles and I am completely dumbfounded by the shrinking violet he became when Melo came. He showed balls signing here but they liked dropped in reverse when Melo got here.

Just because Melo is the best player it does not make him by default the leader. I never saw Melo as a leader, even after we got him.

There are some people on ths board who are melo fans and think he is our savior even though this team has been worse since his arrival

He's not supposed to be a savior, but a major part of the equation. Team hasn't been designed around him properly yet. He brought a team to the playoffs every year without another star. The package of players we sent for him are not playoffs leading players. People who don't like the trade are always going to hate every Knick trade and hold out hope for some hypothetical scenario where we always have flexibility, the idea of a future without a real plan, and the idea that someday we will draft our own superstars.

sorry man i just can't live in the fantasy world because it wouldn't be the truth. I mean You have to understand its not just about top players its about depth and having a good collection of players. Now i'm not saying the guys we had we gonna bring us to teh title but they fit this system. I never said melo shouldn't be a knick i simply said the particular trade was stupid and donnie walsh agreed

We gave up a lot but you still do the deal 10 out of 10 times. The only fantasy world is the one that has Gallo and Felton leading the charge to a title. I agree you need depth, but you build a team around stars first then add depth thru trades and free agent exceptions in the summer. The cap doesn't allow building the opposite way. You build around young rotation players, you have to eventually pay them. So you get stuck paying Gallo, Chandler, and Felton 10 million each because they "fit the system." Would that have been the plan?

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

MS wrote:At least the Knicks did their due dilligence.

And don't worry once the Nets panick we can trade Carmelo for DWill and sign Chandler with the midelevel and have a balanced unselfish team again. Everyone wins.

Amare is the weakest link. Can't rebound, worst starting PF in the NBA(he even sucks on team D/help D). Needs a point guard to get his shot.

Melo/Dwill passing and scoring and defense and duration. Dwill/Stat pick and roll but defensively worst and passing is worst. Amare's One injury away from retirement... Did I mention he is the worst starting defender in the NBA? I've seen guys who play pick up games put more effort on D.

Just a dumb statement right there. You should say "Happy April Fools" just to save face. Amare is far from the worst. I like Amare, liked him when he got here. Liked him all last season. In all honest he reminded me of Larry Johnson in terms of leadership and intangibles and I am completely dumbfounded by the shrinking violet he became when Melo came. He showed balls signing here but they liked dropped in reverse when Melo got here.

Just because Melo is the best player it does not make him by default the leader. I never saw Melo as a leader, even after we got him.

There are some people on ths board who are melo fans and think he is our savior even though this team has been worse since his arrival

He's not supposed to be a savior, but a major part of the equation. Team hasn't been designed around him properly yet. He brought a team to the playoffs every year without another star. The package of players we sent for him are not playoffs leading players. People who don't like the trade are always going to hate every Knick trade and hold out hope for some hypothetical scenario where we always have flexibility, the idea of a future without a real plan, and the idea that someday we will draft our own superstars.

sorry man i just can't live in the fantasy world because it wouldn't be the truth. I mean You have to understand its not just about top players its about depth and having a good collection of players. Now i'm not saying the guys we had we gonna bring us to teh title but they fit this system. I never said melo shouldn't be a knick i simply said the particular trade was stupid and donnie walsh agreed

We gave up a lot but you still do the deal 10 out of 10 times. The only fantasy world is the one that has Gallo and Felton leading the charge to a title. I agree you need depth, but you build a team around stars first then add depth thru trades and free agent exceptions in the summer. The cap doesn't allow building the opposite way. You build around young rotation players, you have to eventually pay them. So you get stuck paying Gallo, Chandler, and Felton 10 million each because they "fit the system." Would that have been the plan?

Once again i never said they would lead us. I mean you gotta read my post first lol. Well felton still had a year kleft on a cheap contract as was gallo so 10 million wasn't true. Like i said melo could have waited for FA instead he threatened to got to jersey.

Melo didn't want to lose money. I didn't say pay them this year, i said "eventually." This summer they are all free agents who need to be paid. We would be at the cap one way or another. That team was a 6th seed playoff team at best. Where was there ever going to be upside?