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Do Carmelo and Stoudemire LIKE playing together?
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SupremeCommander
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1/15/2012  9:03 AM
crzymdups wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Let Alan Speaketh!

https://twitter.com/#!/alanhahn/status/157661967832715266

yep

damnit! how dare you let logic appeal to you and spread it on this messageboard

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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1/15/2012  9:10 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Let Alan Speaketh!

https://twitter.com/#!/alanhahn/status/157661967832715266

yep

damnit! how dare you let logic appeal to you and spread it on this messageboard

Logic.

Until a reasonable facsimile of Chris Duhon suits up, then we are screwed.

At this point, if Mike Bibby can start, what could be so repulsive about playing Jeremy Lin?

once a knick always a knick
holfresh
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1/15/2012  9:18 AM
misterearl wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Let Alan Speaketh!

https://twitter.com/#!/alanhahn/status/157661967832715266

yep

damnit! how dare you let logic appeal to you and spread it on this messageboard

Logic.

Until a reasonable facsimile of Chris Duhon suits up, then we are screwed.

At this point, if Mike Bibby can start, what could be so repulsive about playing Jeremy Lin?

Maybe he isn't an NBA talent...

misterearl
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1/15/2012  10:30 AM
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Let Alan Speaketh!

https://twitter.com/#!/alanhahn/status/157661967832715266

yep

damnit! how dare you let logic appeal to you and spread it on this messageboard

Logic.

Until a reasonable facsimile of Chris Duhon suits up, then we are screwed.

At this point, if Mike Bibby can start, what could be so repulsive about playing Jeremy Lin?

Maybe he isn't an NBA talent...

If Lin is not NBA talent, he should not be on the roster.

As he drives the ball inside every time he gets minutes (which he does), he should get an audition.

once a knick always a knick
franco12
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1/16/2012  7:36 AM
bumping this as the folks as ESPN must be reading this thread:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/9674/amares-shot-selection-suffers-since-melo-trade


I'd argue this borders on Rex Ryan not knowing that his offense just threw for 60+ passes or whatever it was, and that MDA ought to be fired.

I understand the challenges of working in a new player, but there has to be a way to work with both Melo and Stat to have them be effective and on the court at the same time.

Clearly, that isn't happening.

misterearl
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1/16/2012  7:57 AM
Exactly

"Chandler has taken over as the primary screener on pick-and-rolls. This role used to belong to Stoudemire and it often provided attempts at the rim for the big man. That isn't happening with as much frequency this season."

Since the Carmelo trade, the fact remains that Stoudemire has been isolated from the rhythm of an offense that has grown overly dependent on the solo skills Anthony. Denver Buyers Remorse Syndrome is a direct result of missing the team concept. Why? Because the first step in building a championship team is to establish a culture where each players skill set is enhanced, not eroded.

Carmelo was added and flourished - Stoudemire faded. It is NOT so simple as adding a lead guard - as much as Baron Davis will add better decision making than Toney Douglas - Carmelo and Stoudemire will STILL need to ENJOY playing together.

Carmelo notes, “Basketball is fun at the end of the day, and even when we’re out there and we have a lead, it doesn’t look like we’re having fun. I want everyone to get back to having fun again.”

If that is the case, EVERYONE (especially the duel-ing captains) must be trusted to be better, in a total team concept.

I miss Channing Frye.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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1/16/2012  8:03 AM
holfresh - is The Answer Man still "reaching"?

franco12 wrote:bumping this as the folks as ESPN must be reading this thread:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/9674/amares-shot-selection-suffers-since-melo-trade


I'd argue this borders on Rex Ryan not knowing that his offense just threw for 60+ passes or whatever it was, and that MDA ought to be fired.

I understand the challenges of working in a new player, but there has to be a way to work with both Melo and Stat to have them be effective and on the court at the same time.

Clearly, that isn't happening.

once a knick always a knick
holfresh
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1/16/2012  8:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2012  8:18 AM
Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...
colombian0725
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1/16/2012  8:18 AM
misterearl wrote:holfresh - is The Answer Man still "reaching"?

franco12 wrote:bumping this as the folks as ESPN must be reading this thread:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/9674/amares-shot-selection-suffers-since-melo-trade


I'd argue this borders on Rex Ryan not knowing that his offense just threw for 60+ passes or whatever it was, and that MDA ought to be fired.

I understand the challenges of working in a new player, but there has to be a way to work with both Melo and Stat to have them be effective and on the court at the same time.

Clearly, that isn't happening.

Yeah so what about when Melo was out the last two games. Amare where is the break out game? Amare's problem is he can't create for himself like Melo.

colombian0725
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1/16/2012  8:20 AM
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

holfresh
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1/16/2012  8:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2012  8:27 AM
colombian0725 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

He is doing 19 and 8 without a PG...Get a serviceable PG he will do 22/23 and 8 and dominate the paint...That along with Melo can take this team to the next level..Hope you are still posting when BD suits up...

colombian0725
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1/16/2012  8:31 AM
And his defense?
holfresh
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1/16/2012  8:32 AM
colombian0725 wrote:And his defense?

And Dirk's defense?

misterearl
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1/16/2012  8:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2012  8:41 AM
colombian0725 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

holfresh - scoring is only ONE aspect of making a contribution to a team. Damn a guard who can run a pick and roll. If Amar'e is unable to score without a perfect assist, why shouldn't he be EXPECTED to compensate with solid contributions in other aspects of the game?

If Amar'e cannot bring other high-level skills to the floor, as ANY superstar is EXPECTED, (rebounding, defending, set a savage pick, passing) then, on THIS roster - with THIS coach, he is barely more serviceable than Jared Jeffries.

Yeah, I said it.

once a knick always a knick
colombian0725
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1/16/2012  8:38 AM
misterearl wrote:
colombian0725 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

holfresh - scoring is only ONE aspect of making a contribution to a team. Damn a guard who can run a pick and roll. If Amar'e is NOT scoring, why shouldn't he be EXPECTED to compensate with solid contributions in other aspects of the game?

If Amar'e cannot bring other high-level skills to the floor, as ANY superstar is EXPECTED, (rebounding, defending, set a savage pick, passing) then, on THIS roster - with THIS coach, he is barely more serviceable than Jared Jeffries.

Yeah, I said it.

Exactly. Dirk can create for himself and his teammates. Dirk plays in the post and the outside. Dirk is a way better passer than Amare.

holfresh
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1/16/2012  8:43 AM
misterearl wrote:
colombian0725 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

holfresh - scoring is only ONE aspect of making a contribution to a team. Damn a guard who can run a pick and roll. If Amar'e is NOT scoring, why shouldn't he be EXPECTED to compensate with solid contributions in other aspects of the game?

If Amar'e cannot bring other high-level skills to the floor, as ANY superstar is EXPECTED, (rebounding, defending, set a savage pick, passing) then, on THIS roster - with THIS coach, he is barely more serviceable than Jared Jeffries.

Yeah, I said it.

Amare has played for a coach who never asked him to play defense his entire career...I'll go one further...It's was his coaches strategy the his players play no defense to save themselves to keep up the pace on the offensive end...I submit to you, it is impossible to learn to play defense in 12 games after 8 years of not playing it...Last year, there was a stretch that Amare played decent defense but he couldn't keep up the pace...

I'm shocked given what AMARE has done for this franchise that it's come to this...He has made this team relevant again by himself...Not with Gallo...Not with Moz...Not with Will Chan...It was all about Amare last year...Here we are trying to gel again and the doubters rare their heads..Amazing..

misterearl
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1/16/2012  9:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2012  9:05 AM
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
colombian0725 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

holfresh - scoring is only ONE aspect of making a contribution to a team. Damn a guard who can run a pick and roll. If Amar'e is NOT scoring, why shouldn't he be EXPECTED to compensate with solid contributions in other aspects of the game?

If Amar'e cannot bring other high-level skills to the floor, as ANY superstar is EXPECTED, (rebounding, defending, set a savage pick, passing) then, on THIS roster - with THIS coach, he is barely more serviceable than Jared Jeffries.

Yeah, I said it.

Amare has played for a coach who never asked him to play defense his entire career...I'll go one further...It's was his coaches strategy the his players play no defense to save themselves to keep up the pace on the offensive end...I submit to you, it is impossible to learn to play defense in 12 games after 8 years of not playing it...Last year, there was a stretch that Amare played decent defense but he couldn't keep up the pace...

I'm shocked given what AMARE has done for this franchise that it's come to this...He has made this team relevant again by himself...Not with Gallo...Not with Moz...Not with Will Chan...It was all about Amare last year...Here we are trying to gel again and the doubters rare their heads..Amazing..

Excuses Are For Chumps

The only thing Amar'e did for the franchise was attract more media attention and make the franchise appear cool again. To give Amar'e all the credit for performances last season completely ignores the toughness contribution of Felton, the defense of Wilson Chandler, the confident shooting of Gallo, the surprise that was Mozgov and the rest of the supporting cast. Amar'es most significant contribution was the air of confidence. It was NOT ALL about Amar'e. The hype was important to the franchise to signal change but the most SIGNIFICANT change was that they ENJOYED playing together.

We could feel the team coming together and it was NOT a one man show.

Carmelo brings another shot of stardom. Whether his talent(s) will mesh with Stoudemire, remains to be seen.

It's cool when two guys get on the same page as we learned with Clyde and The Pearl. But NEVER think that Clyde and Pearl were so one-dimensional to think they were the entire show. Or that it was only about them simply getting their points. The entire cast of the 73 Championship Knicks was engaged and worked as one. You had the intellectually accurate three point shooter (before there was a three point shot) Jerry Lucas, Dave DeBusschere, Bill Bradley and a better than average bench.

They were not superstars but they enjoyed playing together.

Paraphrasing the lyrics of Janet Jackson, "What have Amar'e and Carmelo done for you lately?"

once a knick always a knick
holfresh
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1/16/2012  9:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2012  9:10 AM
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
colombian0725 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Come on guys...I understand the guys who don't really watch the Knicks play every game, but have to write the articles anyway to make a living, come up with stuff like this...But the guys here who watch every ebb and flow, I'm surprised...Amare's production has everything to do with a PG being able to run the pick and roll...I was shocked along with many others here to see Billups unable to run the pick and roll...Not so coincidentally, Felton left when Carmelo came...This isn't about Carmelo and Amare...It's about a PG on this roster being able to adequately run the pick and roll...My proof?, glad u asked...Last year Amare was also not as productive as this year when Felton had trouble running the pick and roll..The moment Felton picked it up Amare exploded...It's not like everyone who watches the Knicks everyday doesn't know this...

So when we signed Amare to that 100 million dollars it should have said "Warning cannot create own shot. PG required."

holfresh - scoring is only ONE aspect of making a contribution to a team. Damn a guard who can run a pick and roll. If Amar'e is NOT scoring, why shouldn't he be EXPECTED to compensate with solid contributions in other aspects of the game?

If Amar'e cannot bring other high-level skills to the floor, as ANY superstar is EXPECTED, (rebounding, defending, set a savage pick, passing) then, on THIS roster - with THIS coach, he is barely more serviceable than Jared Jeffries.

Yeah, I said it.

Amare has played for a coach who never asked him to play defense his entire career...I'll go one further...It's was his coaches strategy the his players play no defense to save themselves to keep up the pace on the offensive end...I submit to you, it is impossible to learn to play defense in 12 games after 8 years of not playing it...Last year, there was a stretch that Amare played decent defense but he couldn't keep up the pace...

I'm shocked given what AMARE has done for this franchise that it's come to this...He has made this team relevant again by himself...Not with Gallo...Not with Moz...Not with Will Chan...It was all about Amare last year...Here we are trying to gel again and the doubters rare their heads..Amazing..

Excuses Are For Chumps

The only thing Amar'e did for the franchise was attract more media attention and make the franchise appear cool again. To give Amar'e all the credit for performances last season completely ignores the toughness contribution of Felton, the defense of Wilson Chandler, the confident shooting of Gallo, the surprise that was Mozgov and the rest of the supporting cast. Amar'es most significant contribution was the air of confidence. It was NOT ALL about Amar'e. The hype was important to the franchise to signal change but the most SIGNIFICANT change was that they ENJOYED playing together.

We could feel the team coming together and it was NOT a one man show.

Carmelo brings another shot of stardom. Whether his talent(s) will mesh with Stoudemire, remains to be seen.

It's cool when two guys get on the same page as we learned with Clyde and The Pearl. But NEVER think that Clyde and Pearl were so one-dimensional to think they were the entire show. Or that it was only about them simply getting their points. The entire cast of the 73 Championship Knicks was engaged and worked as one. You had the intellectually accurate three point shooter (before there was a three point shot) Jerry Lucas, Dave DeBusschere, Bill Bradley and a better than average bench.

They were not superstars but they enjoyed playing together.

Paraphrasing the lyrics of Janet Jackson, "What have Amar'e and Carmelo done for you lately?"

19 and 8 in case u missed it...And lately you mean the 12 games which would be the 4th game in a normal season...

We were a 30 win team before Amare got here with the studs you mention...

jrodmc
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1/16/2012  9:18 AM
misterearl wrote:
holfresh wrote:
misterearl wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Let Alan Speaketh!

https://twitter.com/#!/alanhahn/status/157661967832715266

yep

damnit! how dare you let logic appeal to you and spread it on this messageboard

Logic.

Until a reasonable facsimile of Chris Duhon suits up, then we are screwed.

At this point, if Mike Bibby can start, what could be so repulsive about playing Jeremy Lin?

Maybe he isn't an NBA talent...

If Lin is not NBA talent, he should not be on the roster.

The depth and truth here are just indescribable. If posts don't make sense, they shouldn't be made.
If a tree falls in the forest, it shouldn't have been planted there to begin with...
If a chicken crosses a road, someone scambles eggs in Hoboken.

misterearl
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1/16/2012  9:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2012  9:38 AM
Stop Making Sense (Guarantee: All Dialogue reported verbatim)

Answer Man: "What have Amar'e and Carmelo done for you lately?"

holfresh: 19 and 8 in case u missed it.

Answer Man: is that the Knicks record since the Carmelo trade?

holfresh: And lately you mean the 12 games which would be the 4th game in a normal season...

MSG Usher: "Dese guts don't do nuttin' da easy way"

Answer Man: there is nothing normal about any Knicks season.

holfresh: We were a 30 win team before Amare got here with the studs you mention...

Answer Man: and we are barely .500 winning percentage with the current studs

Holzman: "Hit the open man"

once a knick always a knick
Do Carmelo and Stoudemire LIKE playing together?

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