Stat is a product of having played under D'Antoni his whole career- poor defender and no post up game. However maybe he has the potential to improve- he's never been pushed to focus on defense before, so lets see whether he gets better with the right teaching. I'll give him a pass for the Bobcats game as he was just back from injury, but still I wish he'd put as much pride and toughness into his defense and rebounding as he does to his 'swag'. Remember Allan Houston used to be a terrible defender when he came to us- after a few years he still wasn't great, but he was okay.

What I hate is that as well as being inept at defending in that Bobcats game, it was clear they weren't even trying. All that crap from melo during the offseason about wanting to shut people up about the Knicks lack of defense- really it's time to start actually showing it- I can live with mistakes but at least make the effort.
We let one of, if not THE, worst offensive teams score 118 points against us on their second game of a back to back, whilst shooting over 50%. Beyond pathetic!

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2012/01/05/knicks-switch-themselves-into-oblivion/

Switching only worked for Atlanta with players who could defend multiple positions like Horford, Josh Smith, and Joe Johnson.

For us, all it's doing is causing mismatches, a lot of confusion over who should get who, and no individual accountability. Our 7'1 center shouldn't be drawn out to the perimeter to guard Augustin, that's ****ing ridiculous.

smackeddog wrote:Stat is a product of having played under D'Antoni his whole career- poor defender and no post up game. However maybe he has the potential to improve- he's never been pushed to focus on defense before, so lets see whether he gets better with the right teaching.

This isn't true! STAT has been coached by Frank Johnson, MDA, Terry Porter and Alvin Gentry. Not to mention that during his time with the Suns he's had Mark Iavaroni as a Defensive assistant under F. Johnson and MDA, then He had Dan D'Antoni. Then he had Terry Porter who was brought in to FOCUS on D. and then they gave A. Gentry credit for getting STAT to play defense, which was BS, cuz that team wasn't as good as any of the D'Antoni Suns teams on D which is proven by the statistics. Now he's had Woodson too.

Dude has always stunk on D and it's him not coaching that is the reason. He needs to take responsibility for his own poor play on D. He's the one that isn't putting in the work on the defensive end.

loweyecue wrote:I think the core criticism against MDA that I have is not being able to manage the egos of the stars and still lead them to the promised land. I don't buy into any of the other BS being spewed at him. His STYLE does not include jumping up and down on the sideline and yelling at his players. Or even giving fiery speeches or repeating the need to play defense a million times. I don't think those things make him a bad coach. But he has shown that he doesn't always get the players attention or he can't reach them and share his vision with them where they see their own success in playing his style. I think he is too much of an idealist, and he should be more willing to work on communicating his vision to his players rather than expecting them to be 100% on board from day 1. I don't question his philosophy so much but his leadership seems lacking. You don't have to be a rah rah guy who thumps tables to get people excited. He may be too dignified for his job which needs a certain level of fairly crude communication with some less tha intellectually gifted people.

Yes I don't know any of this to be true, it's just the sense I get from his body language.

It's impossible for me to know if any of this is the case, but one thing I do know is that his teams played for him last year even when things weren't going great. They showed up and gave great effort against the Bulls and Heat and Boston in the playoffs last year.

Young players have improved under him and when the team was clicking it looked like a very professional group of young guys. This year it's still early, but I think guys are still on board.

I'd be more concerned if I thought players gave up on him, but I don't see that happening. Guys are forgetting things and getting lost from moment to moment, but that can be fixed with more reps.

1. TD needs to deny his man the ball on every possesion. Make the PG use some energy trying to get open before he even gets the ball. This is not hard, especially if you are on a team full of offensive weapons. I used to do this in city leagues, and I was the #1 or #2 option on offense. These are NBA players, they should have enough stamina.
2. Once the PG gets the ball, TD needs to body him up, and not give him any space. So when those picks come, usually he should be able to squeeze through, or force the refs to call a foul on the picker. John Starks and Charlie Ward was very good at this. He needs to look at their old tapes.
3. If they do switch on those PNR, they need to automatically go into some kind of zone. This will confuse them on offense, and prevent TD from being stuck on the block trying to guard a center. It's easier to double when in a zone, versus in man. After the double, you just go back to your zone spot. You will also get more steals this way, because it will look like players are open. But if you jump those passes out of the double team, we will get more fast breaks. This may be a little harder to do on the fly, but it's still my option #3.
4. Play full court man defense, then switch to a zone once the ball crosses half court. I've done this strategy many times during city league games (and won multple championships), and it works. It confuses the offense, and puts the pressure on the other team, especially the guards. It limits their transistion points, and minimizes guard penetration in half court sets.

Knicks or any pro team should really have these strategies in their back pocket already. I just don't understand why takes so long to make defensive adjustments. This will be option 5: Make early defensive adjustments, before the other teams picks up any momentum. Don't wait too long, because once momentum changes, we result in taking forced shots and too many 3 pt shots.

LETS GO KNICKS....GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR AZZ!

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Stat is a product of having played under D'Antoni his whole career- poor defender and no post up game. However maybe he has the potential to improve- he's never been pushed to focus on defense before, so lets see whether he gets better with the right teaching.

This isn't true! STAT has been coached by Frank Johnson, MDA, Terry Porter and Alvin Gentry. Not to mention that during his time with the Suns he's had Mark Iavaroni as a Defensive assistant under F. Johnson and MDA, then He had Dan D'Antoni. Then he had Terry Porter who was brought in to FOCUS on D. and then they gave A. Gentry credit for getting STAT to play defense, which was BS, cuz that team wasn't as good as any of the D'Antoni Suns teams on D which is proven by the statistics. Now he's had Woodson too.

Dude has always stunk on D and it's him not coaching that is the reason. He needs to take responsibility for his own poor play on D. He's the one that isn't putting in the work on the defensive end.

Frank Johnson (who I completely forgot even existed!) was only around for about a season or two, Terry Porter lasted about half a season didn't he? Not really enough time to have an influence, and Alvin Gentry is pretty much just running D'Antoni's system. D'Antoni has coached Stat for about 6 or 7 seasons- the vast majority of his career.

Coaches do greatly effect a players development- look at LJ before he came here- he was never considered a good defender, but under JVG he dedicated himself to it. Would Stat be the same player if say JVG or Pat Riley had coached him for as long as D'Antoni has?

But while I think his past coaching has shaped him into the player he is today, you're right, he does still need to take personal responsibility- there's a difference bewtween being a poor defender, and being a player who makes no effort what so ever at the defensive end. The problem is, even if he started trying, he still doesn't know what he's doing defensively.

Good point about LJ. The issue with STAT is he looks so confused. He has no idea what to do especially on switches. I rewatched the game last night and you can see him look at other players numberous times thinking that something else was going to happen. Now maybe he has a low defensive IQ or maybe the players are just not getting the system. Maybe we can blame woodson now or blame the small number of games played thus far. Either way, this better improve because he is killing us.

blkexec wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Stat is a product of having played under D'Antoni his whole career- poor defender and no post up game. However maybe he has the potential to improve- he's never been pushed to focus on defense before, so lets see whether he gets better with the right teaching.

This isn't true! STAT has been coached by Frank Johnson, MDA, Terry Porter and Alvin Gentry. Not to mention that during his time with the Suns he's had Mark Iavaroni as a Defensive assistant under F. Johnson and MDA, then He had Dan D'Antoni. Then he had Terry Porter who was brought in to FOCUS on D. and then they gave A. Gentry credit for getting STAT to play defense, which was BS, cuz that team wasn't as good as any of the D'Antoni Suns teams on D which is proven by the statistics. Now he's had Woodson too.

Dude has always stunk on D and it's him not coaching that is the reason. He needs to take responsibility for his own poor play on D. He's the one that isn't putting in the work on the defensive end.

Frank Johnson (who I completely forgot even existed!) was only around for about a season or two, Terry Porter lasted about half a season didn't he? Not really enough time to have an influence, and Alvin Gentry is pretty much just running D'Antoni's system. D'Antoni has coached Stat for about 6 or 7 seasons- the vast majority of his career.

Coaches do greatly effect a players development- look at LJ before he came here- he was never considered a good defender, but under JVG he dedicated himself to it. Would Stat be the same player if say JVG or Pat Riley had coached him for as long as D'Antoni has?

But while I think his past coaching has shaped him into the player he is today, you're right, he does still need to take personal responsibility- there's a difference bewtween being a poor defender, and being a player who makes no effort what so ever at the defensive end. The problem is, even if he started trying, he still doesn't know what he's doing defensively.

I don't think stresses effort enough. Thats the main difference with JVG / old Knick days. Since we lacked the tallent in Oakley and Mason, we had to rely on effort. STATS simply gives up on defense too many times, and misses out on those put backs or boxing out during those second chance shots. This allows his man multiple put backs and poster dunks all over Amari's back.

seems to stress more on text book strategies and less on good ole fashion effort (ex remember the no layup rule?).... seems to be the type to have all the strategies and plays in the world. But sometimes, the simplist strategy is just increase your effort, and never give up on defensive plays, until possession has changed. STAT gives up on every defensive break down TOO EARLY. Then when the team misses that shot, he's out of possition and his man will either get the offensive put back, and kick it out to his man for the open jumper.

This lack of effort becomes contagous, because usually players follow the teams best players, which is Melo and STAT. The worst players to follow, when it comes to defensive effort. I've seen Chandler's lack of defensive effort a few times, on a put back dunk by his man. He over commits on help defense too, and thinks his team has the defensive IQ to get his back on the rotation. This isn't the well coached Dallas team. This is offensive team, that tries to out score you to win games....vs....getting defensive stops to win games.

As an old school Knick fan, this strategy (out score your oponent) hurts my eyes sometimes....You need defensive stops to win a championship. Just watch Greenbay this year. They are the most efficient offensive team in the league, and they still need to improve their defense to win it all. We are at the bottom right now in both offense and defense! I doubt we will ever be back at the top on offense, until we get Steve Nash or Felton back, because thats system right now. has no system for a team that lacks PG playmaking ability. He needs to learn from Phil Jackson, and try something similar to a triangle offense, that doesnt rely on just PG play to be successful.

I think MDA is running the Perry Fewell Tampa (cover) 2 defense.

By Matt Moore

Stop me if you've heard this one before. Defense wins championships. That's not actually true, as some of the best defenses never win titles because their offense can't muster enough points to outscore a college team. But it's certainly vital. You'll never find a modern NBA team win with terrible defense. But who have the best systems? We know who the great defenders are, but how much are they a product of the system, and how much is the system a product of them? We sought to answer those questions with our own form of the defensive system power rankings.

1. Chicago Bulls: There's a reason Tom Thibodeau is considered a defensive genius. Look no further than the fact that the Bulls were the defensive icon of the league despite considerable injuries last season and the fact that Carlos Boozer was a heavy-minutes starter. The key to Thibodeau's system is help and precision attack. There's no anticipation of meeting the player at the point of field goal attempt, the initial penetration is deterred by a series of help defenders cutting off multiple options. It's a system that masks individual defensive weaknesses. That's why players like Omer Asik, Boozer, and C.J Watson suddenly become strengthpoints.

An interesting component is that the Bulls are so focused on preventing scores, they manage to avoid fouling. They had the 22nd lowest free throw rate in the league. Compare that with Boston's 10th rating, and you find a much cleaner defense. That's partially attributable to the different personnel but it's also indicative of the Bulls' approach. They attack the dribble, cut off the lane, and contain, contain, contain.

Their cohesion is nearly perfect, their communication is nearly perfect, their approach is nearly perfect. Guarding LeBron James nailing long-range threes? You've got be perfect to beat that.

2. Boston Celtics: The ugly older brother of the Bulls' defense. The Celtics use the same help mechanisms to deter penetration and attack the rim, but are far more willing to commit to a club to the head to make their point. Intelligent design matched with brute force. Another key difference is their reliance on their individual personnel. Kevin Garnett is of course the field general, and its his willingness to commit to any assignment or range that fuels the system. But Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo are all equally essential along with the rest of the team. The problem is that the central reliance on personnel gives way to vulnerability. Eventually age catches up with the Celtics.

What bolsters them, though, is a philosophical dedication. The Celtics are willing to do the hard job, no matter how tough. It's not just a matter of professional dedication, its a prideful philosophy, an extension of the family unity they've tried to instill in the team. That's really what separates the Celtics, their almost militaristic dedication to the defensive discipline they try and execute for 48 minutes.

The Celtics' defense is only going to continue to slide as the players' abilities downgrade with age. But until then, they're still stocked with the most experience, ability, and knowledge of their system of any team in the league.

...

Again, with the LeBron thing.

3. Miami Heat: If the Celtics and Bulls both rely on system built on systemic fundamentals and philosophy, then the Heat's concept is a bit different, if nearly as effective. Their strengths begin with their talent. Having three of the most athletic players in the league gives you a basis. LeBron James' ability to play on the perimeter, on the wing, in the post, and battle for rebounds gives them versatility. Chris Bosh is never going to win anyone's heart over with toughness, but guarding those stretch fours in a league where they can torch you is important, and Bosh does it well. Dwyane Wade still gambles more than he should, but he also makes plays more often than you want if you're facing him.

This isn't to say the rest of the Heat are schlubs. Udonis Haslem is a big, tough, difficult defender who has the savvy to arm wrestle a weapon to the proverbial ground. The Heat have veteran players who don't lack for experience, and it helps tremendously.

The most interesting wrinkle in their defensive system, though, is one of their anticipation. Consider that the Bulls and Celtics both react to where the ball goes. They're always playing a game of stop what's in front of them. It's a very Eastern-philosophy, "stay in the moment" kind of mindset. But the Heat look to anticipate. They run to the corner shooter before the ball arrives. They play on a string, but not just in terms of shutting down one option and then reacting, but getting ahead of the offense to prevent the quick open look opportunity. The result is a load of shot clock violations.

The problem is personnel. They have neither the wing stopper they can commit at the cost of offense, nor the body in the paint at center to defend the rim. There's a reason why Shane Battier and Eddy Curry reportedly top the Heat's list of targets in free agency. A few better options defensively in terms of personnel might have won them two more games in the Finals, which was all that stood in their way of vindicating all that premature boasting.

4. Orlando Magic: It's good to have the best. Dwight Howard makes more of an impact defensively than any other player in the league, the reason he's the defending Defensive Player of the Year (again), and why he was an MVP candidate last season. If you don't believe me, watch just the Orlando Magic defensively some time. A team with Gilbert Arenas and Hedo Turkoglu in prominent roles was a top five team defensively last season, and that impact begins and ends with Dwight Howard. Howard reacts to the baseline, swats the weak side, covers both the ball handler and roll man on the pick and roll, and is big and tall and super-athletic. He's a freak of nature, and one that's learned to be smarter on defense every year.

But to say that it's all Howard does a disservice to Stan Van Gundy's work. Van Gundy, after all, is the coach that has brought Dwight Howard to the defensive level he's at, making it a priority for the young big man since 2007. And it's Van Gundy who manages to pull this kind of defensive effort out of a team with that roster. That Van Gundy is able to generate cohesive defensive efforts with Brandon Bass, Jameer Nelson, and Jason Richardson in key roles along with the others speaks volumes of what SVG is capable of.

His biggest weakness is that personnel, which has gotten worse each season since 2009. Howard's hit his ceiling defensively. Unless SVG gets better supporting talent, there's only so many rabbits he can pull out of his hat.

5. Los Angeles Lakers: It's good to be tall.

The Lakers' defensive system is a question mark as Mike Brown takes over. But if we look at what the Lakers have done well in the past, it's pretty simple. Be tall, be active, apply pressure. The Lakers will talk about experience and veteran savvy, but their biggest asset is the fact that Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum combine to create a redwood forrest down low through which passes cannot flow. The result is a lot of perimter passing just to get the ball to the other side, or wild looping cross-court volleys. Combine that with Derek Fisher's ability to counter his slowness with pestering opposing point guards into personal fouls, and Kobe Bryant and Ron Artest's proficiency in perimeter defense, and you have quite the set.

Honestly, this roster probably has a lot of upside in defense, still. Jackson was too busy handing out novels and waxing poetic on what other player or coach he was degrading that week to really focus defensively other than to talk about, well, focus. The Lakers with Brown could be the best defensive unit in the NBA next season. Whenever that is.

Also considered:

Milwaukee Bucks: Skiles continues to struggle with offense, but his teams always attack the ball and stay disciplined. It's sloppy at times, but Skiles' grinding approach is a proven tactic.

Dallas Mavericks: Rick Carlisle talked in the Finals about "defending with five guys" and that's the best part of the Mavericks. They use any and all weapons at their disposal. Their defense isn't why they won the NBA championship, but it was why they won the Finals. Versatility combined with determination and good chemistry with sound principles made them formidable enough to compromise teams enough for their offense to do the rest.

Memphis Grizzlies: Unconventional is the word, here, as the Grizzlies run counter to every defensive tradition in the NBA. They don't play position, they attack the ball. They don't focus on misses, they swarm for steals. They don't deny layups, they pester and pressure until the offense collapses. Out of nowhere, Lionel Hollins turned one of the worst defenses in the league into one of the best. Tony Allen's influence helps, so does Shane Battier's, but it's Memphis' adoption of the blue collar ethic of the town that helped them make their playoff run.