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Please, for the love of God, can we forget about Chris Paul...
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nixluva
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11/29/2011  4:15 PM
It depends on the team you have. You don't have to have a Howard in the paint to be successful. If we have CP3 and a good Center, that will put this team in the hunt. A Center can only do so much. You still need a team around him. What we need is a guy that can give you what Perkins gave the Celtics. Tough inside presence. We don't need a C for scoring.

Adding CP3 is about having a well rounded and fully functioning team. I would LOVE to add Howard, but it's not likely to happen. That being the case, the most likely scenario is CP3 coming here as a FA or in a trade. I'd go with that and be happy. Last years playoffs by CP3 is all you need to know about how great he is.

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Nalod
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11/29/2011  4:52 PM

If Paul Leaves via free agent he leaves 40 mil on the table so writes Hollinger. Same that applied to Melo or Lebron.

Big question is CP3 a max player?

Those knees!!!!!!

Im sure they would have to offer more than what he'd get in FA but you strap that contract/liabilty on that franchise it makes it harder to sell.

Can they get insurance on those knees?

Does he even think he is a Max contract player?

Knixkik
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11/29/2011  7:25 PM
Nalod wrote:
If Paul Leaves via free agent he leaves 40 mil on the table so writes Hollinger. Same that applied to Melo or Lebron.

Big question is CP3 a max player?

Those knees!!!!!!

Im sure they would have to offer more than what he'd get in FA but you strap that contract/liabilty on that franchise it makes it harder to sell.

Can they get insurance on those knees?

Does he even think he is a Max contract player?


Paul leaving that money on the table is possible, but unlikely. It would have to be worked thru extend-and-trade. A trade for Paul would again be possible, but unlikely. The reports who say Paul is coming gets me excited, but there isn't a lot of factual information on how it would happen. Hollinger is being a hater, but is providing a breakdown showing it is difficult and doesn't make a lot of sense. And this goes back to the argument of a big 3 and zero depth vs. putting together a deep, strong team. There are solid PGs who will be available, notably Nash. Melo/Stat/Nash isn't as good as Paul instead of Nash, but add Fields, Douglas, Shumpert, and a solid center and there may be an argument. We need to sign a center on a one-year contract to keep the Paul option open, but if it becomes unrealistic, Knicks should use money over the summer on resigning Fields, signing Nash, and upgrading the center position.
CashMoney
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11/29/2011  8:04 PM
Killa4luv wrote:Dwight HOward is the most dominant big in the game, by a lot. He is the most dominant force in the game on both sides of the ball. He is the answer to so many of our weaknesses that it doesn't even make sense. I love Chris Paul, he is the gold standard for PGs as for as I'm concerned. But if u have to choose between big and small in a league devoid of bigs, you choose Big.

This is a no brainer if we have a choice. The issue is, I don't think we have a choice. I havent heard once that Dwight wants to be here, and its pretty clear the CP3 really wants to be a knick.

Zero chance Howard comes to the Knicks. He's overrated anyway....with no other bigs in the league he should be dropping 30 a game. Any decent center from back in the day would make him look like the bumb he is.

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nixluva
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11/29/2011  8:44 PM
The League should've sold the Hornets already. It's not good to have the league own a team. I don't like the influence they have in that they want to preserve the franchise at all costs. Even tho it would make more sense for them to make a deal before losing CP3 for nothing. YOu almost get the sense the league won't make a deal with the Knicks just to stop them from having another big 3. I'm sure they're already getting complaints from small market owners about the rumors of Paul to NY. Why should the league still be owning the team after 2 years? They could've sold this team already. There's never a lack of buyers for NBA teams.
Killa4luv
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11/30/2011  12:35 AM
CashMoney wrote:
Killa4luv wrote:Dwight HOward is the most dominant big in the game, by a lot. He is the most dominant force in the game on both sides of the ball. He is the answer to so many of our weaknesses that it doesn't even make sense. I love Chris Paul, he is the gold standard for PGs as for as I'm concerned. But if u have to choose between big and small in a league devoid of bigs, you choose Big.

This is a no brainer if we have a choice. The issue is, I don't think we have a choice. I havent heard once that Dwight wants to be here, and its pretty clear the CP3 really wants to be a knick.

Zero chance Howard comes to the Knicks. He's overrated anyway....with no other bigs in the league he should be dropping 30 a game. Any decent center from back in the day would make him look like the bumb he is.


Overrated or not, he's the best big, by a LOT! His impact on D is crazy.
He's been the DPOY 3 times in a row. U know who else has done that?
Nobody.
TheGame
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11/30/2011  1:29 PM
If the choices are Howard, Paul, and Deron, I think Howard would have to be first. With Howard in the middle, next to Amare and Melo, you would not even need a pure point guard. Howard would anchor our defense and no team could stop us from scoring in the 4th quarter. Between Paul and Deron, I think Paul is more talented, but Deron is healthier (no knee issue), bigger, and more consistent. Pual is a guy that can make average players look great. Deron is a guy that help boost an already good team and fill in as another scorer. If Paul's knee was 100%, I would probably go with him, but as it stands, I would go after Deron first.
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TheGame
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11/30/2011  1:31 PM
crzymdups wrote:ESPN isn't gonna let you off the hook - it's gonna be Chris Paul to the Knicks ALLLLLL season. I just hope they wait til the summer and DONT TRADE IMAN.

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Chris Paul's first choice is to play for the Knicks, sources say. He's willing to wait & sign w/NYK as free agent next summer.
8 minutes ago

I really like Iman. I think he has the potential to be an above average player. Hopefully, the Knicks will do what they should have done with Melo, and wait to get Paul in the summer. With options like Deron also out there, I don't think there is any rush to get Paul during the season.

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MSG3
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11/30/2011  1:36 PM
From everything I'm reading it seems as if the best chance for CP3 to maximize his $, other than a max deal with NOLA, would be for him to be dealt before the season starts. So if that is true, this won't be hanging over us all season.

If they do trade for him, you know it's going to be Iman, Billups, Jordan, Future Picks, Cash. That's not nearly what NOLA could get from LAC, OKC, etc....but Paul has control because he may not sign with any of those teams, a la Melo.

MSG3
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11/30/2011  1:41 PM
Honestly, I was all in for Melo. I think it was a deal we had to make and puts us on the right path to being a title contender. If we lose out on CP3 or Deron it might be for the best depending on what we'd be giving up. With the cap space we'll have next summer we'd probably have a shot at Nash on the cheap as well as all the other solid free agents next summer. If Paul is willing to take a pay cut to enable us to add pieces, it'll be fantastic. But I don't know if that'll happen.

Not saying I wouldn't love Paul, but I think we can be contenders with a good PG and a deep surrounding cast to go with Melo and STAT.

Moonangie
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11/30/2011  1:56 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:
If Paul Leaves via free agent he leaves 40 mil on the table so writes Hollinger. Same that applied to Melo or Lebron.

Big question is CP3 a max player?

Those knees!!!!!!

Im sure they would have to offer more than what he'd get in FA but you strap that contract/liabilty on that franchise it makes it harder to sell.

Can they get insurance on those knees?

Does he even think he is a Max contract player?


Paul leaving that money on the table is possible, but unlikely. It would have to be worked thru extend-and-trade. A trade for Paul would again be possible, but unlikely. The reports who say Paul is coming gets me excited, but there isn't a lot of factual information on how it would happen. Hollinger is being a hater, but is providing a breakdown showing it is difficult and doesn't make a lot of sense. And this goes back to the argument of a big 3 and zero depth vs. putting together a deep, strong team. There are solid PGs who will be available, notably Nash. Melo/Stat/Nash isn't as good as Paul instead of Nash, but add Fields, Douglas, Shumpert, and a solid center and there may be an argument. We need to sign a center on a one-year contract to keep the Paul option open, but if it becomes unrealistic, Knicks should use money over the summer on resigning Fields, signing Nash, and upgrading the center position.

Hollinger isn't the only one describing the unliklihood of CP3 to the Knicks...

November 29, 2011
So Near the Garden but Still Miles Away
By HOWARD BECK
Chris Paul mentioned moving boxes, Carmelo Anthony and New York — magic phrases that, with a little clever splicing, would leave Knicks fans all aflutter.

The images were irresistible, too: Paul and Anthony, working hand in hand Tuesday at a Brooklyn Boys and Girls Club, four and a half miles from Madison Square Garden. A short time later, they would put on a basketball clinic for children. For added effect, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade — co-conspirators in the Miami heist of 2010 — were there, too.

The scene unfolded in the context of a community service event, but it felt like an exercise in subliminal advertising.

(Chris Paul.)

(Carmelo Anthony.)

(Superteams.)

(Wink.)

Hours earlier, ESPN.com had reported that Paul, the New Orleans Hornets’ star point guard, wanted to play for the Knicks. On Sunday, The Daily News — with some skillful photo manipulation — put Paul in a No. 3 Knicks jersey on its back page.

From the moment the lockout ended early Saturday morning, Paul’s future has been the N.B.A.’s top (speculative) story.

“I try not to pay attention to all of that different type stuff,” Paul said Tuesday at an event to distribute food to needy families. “My heart is in New Orleans. And right now, the reason I’m here in New York is like what Melo just said — it’s for him.”

Anthony asked. Paul came. If only N.B.A. transactions were so simple.

The Knicks are as far from acquiring Paul as they are from contending with the Heat.

Sixteen months ago, Amar’e Stoudemire signed with the Knicks and said he would lobby Anthony to join him. That same week, Paul, in a toast at Anthony’s wedding, playfully suggested forming their own Big 3, to match Miami’s.

In February, Anthony indeed arrived, in a controversial trade that cost the Knicks nearly every asset they had. Now Paul is reportedly trying to complete the picture, by employing the same script that Anthony used — back-room lobbying, well-placed rumors and the threat of free agency — while denying everything in public.

Paul can opt out of his contract next summer, putting pressure on the Hornets to deal him this season, or risk losing him without compensation. This was the formula that got Anthony to New York.

Except now the rules and the parameters have changed. Having sent four starters and multiple draft picks to Denver, the Knicks have nothing of value left to trade.

And the N.B.A. — largely in response to James and Anthony — has erected new barriers to superstar movement.

Under the new labor deal, elite players who change teams will have to accept less money and shorter contracts. In Paul’s case, if he wants an extend-and-trade deal (as Anthony did), he would be permitted only a one-year extension, for $18.7 million in 2013-14.

Compare that with Anthony, who received a three-year, $65 million bump on the day he became a Knick. That deal inspired N.B.A. owners to try banning extend-and-trades altogether before merely imposing new restrictions.

Paul could sign a richer extension with the Hornets — for two years and $38.6 million, taking him through 2014-15. But under the new rules, the Hornets would be prohibited from trading him for six months.

Similarly, if Paul is traded without an extension, he will have to wait six months to sign one with his new team.

Paul will be a free agent next summer, and the financial incentives for staying put would be even stronger. The Hornets could offer Paul a five-year deal worth $100 million. The Knicks could offer only four years and $74.3 million, based on the new rules.

Rarely have superstars left their teams for such a drastic pay cut. Nor could Paul benefit from a sign-and-trade deal. Under the new rules, a player who leaves via sign-and-trade can get only four years (instead of five) and 4.5 percent raises (instead of 7.5 percent).

Signing Paul as a free agent may not be viable, either.

The Knicks have $44.6 million committed for 2012-13, to five players, including the rookie Iman Shumpert and an option on Toney Douglas. That does not include any free-agent signings they might make next month. Assuming the cap remains about $58 million — as the league expects — the Knicks might have only $13 million to spend. Paul would be eligible for a deal starting at $17.4 million.

The Knicks could clear $5.2 million by declining Douglas’s option and letting Shumpert and Renaldo Balkman go for nothing. But that would leave them with three superstars and no teammates, no cap room and few draft picks.

So the trade route remains the preferred option. Except the Knicks have nothing to entice the Hornets, unless they are willing to trade Anthony or Stoudemire. Their next best player, Chauncey Billups, is 35. They have already traded first-round picks in 2012, 2014 and 2016 and under league rules must keep their picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017.

Of course, the Hornets have no intention of trading their franchise cornerstone. If they do, they will easily find better offers from the Los Angeles Clippers, the Los Angeles Lakers or any number of other suitors.

The wedding toast was cute. The scene in Brooklyn on Tuesday was collegial. But Paul’s big dream is probably nothing more than a fantasy.

CashMoney
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11/30/2011  2:28 PM
Moonangie wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:
If Paul Leaves via free agent he leaves 40 mil on the table so writes Hollinger. Same that applied to Melo or Lebron.

Big question is CP3 a max player?

Those knees!!!!!!

Im sure they would have to offer more than what he'd get in FA but you strap that contract/liabilty on that franchise it makes it harder to sell.

Can they get insurance on those knees?

Does he even think he is a Max contract player?


Paul leaving that money on the table is possible, but unlikely. It would have to be worked thru extend-and-trade. A trade for Paul would again be possible, but unlikely. The reports who say Paul is coming gets me excited, but there isn't a lot of factual information on how it would happen. Hollinger is being a hater, but is providing a breakdown showing it is difficult and doesn't make a lot of sense. And this goes back to the argument of a big 3 and zero depth vs. putting together a deep, strong team. There are solid PGs who will be available, notably Nash. Melo/Stat/Nash isn't as good as Paul instead of Nash, but add Fields, Douglas, Shumpert, and a solid center and there may be an argument. We need to sign a center on a one-year contract to keep the Paul option open, but if it becomes unrealistic, Knicks should use money over the summer on resigning Fields, signing Nash, and upgrading the center position.

Hollinger isn't the only one describing the unliklihood of CP3 to the Knicks...

November 29, 2011
So Near the Garden but Still Miles Away
By HOWARD BECK
Chris Paul mentioned moving boxes, Carmelo Anthony and New York — magic phrases that, with a little clever splicing, would leave Knicks fans all aflutter.

The images were irresistible, too: Paul and Anthony, working hand in hand Tuesday at a Brooklyn Boys and Girls Club, four and a half miles from Madison Square Garden. A short time later, they would put on a basketball clinic for children. For added effect, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade — co-conspirators in the Miami heist of 2010 — were there, too.

The scene unfolded in the context of a community service event, but it felt like an exercise in subliminal advertising.

(Chris Paul.)

(Carmelo Anthony.)

(Superteams.)

(Wink.)

Hours earlier, ESPN.com had reported that Paul, the New Orleans Hornets’ star point guard, wanted to play for the Knicks. On Sunday, The Daily News — with some skillful photo manipulation — put Paul in a No. 3 Knicks jersey on its back page.

From the moment the lockout ended early Saturday morning, Paul’s future has been the N.B.A.’s top (speculative) story.

“I try not to pay attention to all of that different type stuff,” Paul said Tuesday at an event to distribute food to needy families. “My heart is in New Orleans. And right now, the reason I’m here in New York is like what Melo just said — it’s for him.”

Anthony asked. Paul came. If only N.B.A. transactions were so simple.

The Knicks are as far from acquiring Paul as they are from contending with the Heat.

Sixteen months ago, Amar’e Stoudemire signed with the Knicks and said he would lobby Anthony to join him. That same week, Paul, in a toast at Anthony’s wedding, playfully suggested forming their own Big 3, to match Miami’s.

In February, Anthony indeed arrived, in a controversial trade that cost the Knicks nearly every asset they had. Now Paul is reportedly trying to complete the picture, by employing the same script that Anthony used — back-room lobbying, well-placed rumors and the threat of free agency — while denying everything in public.

Paul can opt out of his contract next summer, putting pressure on the Hornets to deal him this season, or risk losing him without compensation. This was the formula that got Anthony to New York.

Except now the rules and the parameters have changed. Having sent four starters and multiple draft picks to Denver, the Knicks have nothing of value left to trade.

And the N.B.A. — largely in response to James and Anthony — has erected new barriers to superstar movement.

Under the new labor deal, elite players who change teams will have to accept less money and shorter contracts. In Paul’s case, if he wants an extend-and-trade deal (as Anthony did), he would be permitted only a one-year extension, for $18.7 million in 2013-14.

Compare that with Anthony, who received a three-year, $65 million bump on the day he became a Knick. That deal inspired N.B.A. owners to try banning extend-and-trades altogether before merely imposing new restrictions.

Paul could sign a richer extension with the Hornets — for two years and $38.6 million, taking him through 2014-15. But under the new rules, the Hornets would be prohibited from trading him for six months.

Similarly, if Paul is traded without an extension, he will have to wait six months to sign one with his new team.

Paul will be a free agent next summer, and the financial incentives for staying put would be even stronger. The Hornets could offer Paul a five-year deal worth $100 million. The Knicks could offer only four years and $74.3 million, based on the new rules.

Rarely have superstars left their teams for such a drastic pay cut. Nor could Paul benefit from a sign-and-trade deal. Under the new rules, a player who leaves via sign-and-trade can get only four years (instead of five) and 4.5 percent raises (instead of 7.5 percent).

Signing Paul as a free agent may not be viable, either.

The Knicks have $44.6 million committed for 2012-13, to five players, including the rookie Iman Shumpert and an option on Toney Douglas. That does not include any free-agent signings they might make next month. Assuming the cap remains about $58 million — as the league expects — the Knicks might have only $13 million to spend. Paul would be eligible for a deal starting at $17.4 million.

The Knicks could clear $5.2 million by declining Douglas’s option and letting Shumpert and Renaldo Balkman go for nothing. But that would leave them with three superstars and no teammates, no cap room and few draft picks.

So the trade route remains the preferred option. Except the Knicks have nothing to entice the Hornets, unless they are willing to trade Anthony or Stoudemire. Their next best player, Chauncey Billups, is 35. They have already traded first-round picks in 2012, 2014 and 2016 and under league rules must keep their picks in 2013, 2015 and 2017.

Of course, the Hornets have no intention of trading their franchise cornerstone. If they do, they will easily find better offers from the Los Angeles Clippers, the Los Angeles Lakers or any number of other suitors.

The wedding toast was cute. The scene in Brooklyn on Tuesday was collegial. But Paul’s big dream is probably nothing more than a fantasy.

CP3 can make up the loss in salary with endorsements galore. It's all going to come down to wether or not CP3 wants to bring his game to the Knicks and team with our Big 2 while leaving close to $40 million on the table. I think he does and I think he will. None of us really know how much a championship is worth to him.

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Nalod
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11/30/2011  2:43 PM

I asked this question: Is Paul with his knees a Max player?

Would NO even give him a max deal to stay if he even wanted to?

I realize what he means to the organization but at 26 is his knee issue could hamstring the franchise with a contract that could be bloody awful even if you have amnesty as most pre existing conditions are not insurable (eddy and Stat don't have insurance).

If chronic and prone to flair ups while the team struggles financially while up for sale might not bode well for a good selling price.

That franchise could very much benefit from divesting themselves of him and rebuilding beyond with some quality pieces so there goal must be to enhance his trade value with an extension cuz without him he is just a potential rental for any team trading for him.

Or, a team like Boston can get him straight up for him and Paul can no opt out, get one more year at 17mil and then see what happens. With Paul they have a better chance and after that his contract expires, KG and Ray also.

What does Paul want? Money? Superfriend experience? Championship? He say's the right thing about staying in NO but they all say the right thing!

AnubisADL
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11/30/2011  3:19 PM
Nalod wrote:
I asked this question: Is Paul with his knees a Max player?

Would NO even give him a max deal to stay if he even wanted to?

I realize what he means to the organization but at 26 is his knee issue could hamstring the franchise with a contract that could be bloody awful even if you have amnesty as most pre existing conditions are not insurable (eddy and Stat don't have insurance).

If chronic and prone to flair ups while the team struggles financially while up for sale might not bode well for a good selling price.

That franchise could very much benefit from divesting themselves of him and rebuilding beyond with some quality pieces so there goal must be to enhance his trade value with an extension cuz without him he is just a potential rental for any team trading for him.

Or, a team like Boston can get him straight up for him and Paul can no opt out, get one more year at 17mil and then see what happens. With Paul they have a better chance and after that his contract expires, KG and Ray also.

What does Paul want? Money? Superfriend experience? Championship? He say's the right thing about staying in NO but they all say the right thing!

His knee is definitely a concern since he is an undersized guard who will be going against Rose, Rondo, Wall, Irving, Jennings, etc.

I dont see him leaving a millions of dollars on the table to come here though.

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martin
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11/30/2011  3:26 PM
AnubisADL wrote:I dont see him leaving a millions of dollars on the table to come here though.

why not?

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AnubisADL
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11/30/2011  3:36 PM
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I dont see him leaving a millions of dollars on the table to come here though.

why not?

The same reason Amare didn't take less to stay in Phoenix. These guys aren't billionaires. 5 million+ is a lot of money and NBA contracts are GUARANTEED while endorsement money is not.

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martin
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11/30/2011  3:39 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I dont see him leaving a millions of dollars on the table to come here though.

why not?

The same reason Amare didn't take less to stay in Phoenix. These guys aren't billionaires. 5 million+ is a lot of money and NBA contracts are GUARANTEED while endorsement money is not.

Amare wanted the years, not necessarily the total $, and PHO was not offering that. Bosh, LeBron, Wade all took about exactly what will be offered to CP3 to go to the team with the players the wanted.

And if not CP3, then Deron will take the $.

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nixluva
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11/30/2011  4:08 PM
CP3 like Amar'e is pretty savvy. Amar'e is already starting new business ventures that opened up due to being in NY. People really do underestimate the increased profile that being in NY brings. Sure if you're Lebron or Kobe you can be anywhere and make tons of money in endorsements, but some players get hidden being in small markets. CP3 would indeed increase his standing in the public eye being in NY. Just think about how Melo got called to be on with Regis and Kelly and he did the late night TV shows. Melo's wife got a reality show. It's just a market with more opportunities when you become the face of a city this big.

I'm almost positive that MSG can rig some sweet deals thru their many business connections to funnel money to CP3 without raising issues with the League. You just know that kind of stuff gets done and are hard to prove. Third Party deals with clients of MSG would be hard to legislate against. The MSG business tendrils extend so far no one could keep track. IMO the money won't be as much of an issue for CP3 as some make it seem.

Player/total endorsement income/shoe sponsor
LeBron James: $34 million (Nike)
Kobe Bryant: $28 million (Nike)
Dwyane Wade: $12 million (Jordan/Nike)
Dwight Howard: $11 million (Adidas)
Yao Ming: $10 million (Reebok)
Shaquille O’Neal: $10 million (Dunkman/Li Ning)
Kevin Durant: $9 million (Nike)
Carmelo Anthony: $8 million (Jordan/Nike)
Amar’e Stoudemire: $8 million (Nike-expiring this summer)

This is only the Sneaker deals and CP3 didn't even make the top 10. I think it's entirely possible for CP3 to get paid less from his BB contract but make more with his endorsements. Not to mention that if he wins a title in NY CP3 will have after BB income that will extend longer.

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11/30/2011  4:17 PM
Broussards reports CP3 will NOT sign an extension with Boston if traded...
AnubisADL
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11/30/2011  4:47 PM
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I dont see him leaving a millions of dollars on the table to come here though.

why not?

The same reason Amare didn't take less to stay in Phoenix. These guys aren't billionaires. 5 million+ is a lot of money and NBA contracts are GUARANTEED while endorsement money is not.

Amare wanted the years, not necessarily the total $, and PHO was not offering that. Bosh, LeBron, Wade all took about exactly what will be offered to CP3 to go to the team with the players the wanted.

And if not CP3, then Deron will take the $.

When Chris Paul becomes available every team will put together packages to get him. I dont know what he will decide but expecting a guy to take millions less is reaching.

Deron Williams take a year less of guaranteed salary to play for the Knicks? NJ isnt S&T'ing him to the Knicks so he can get an extra year.

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Please, for the love of God, can we forget about Chris Paul...

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