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Alex Kennedy tweet: Source: No deal. Total BS. The deal got worse.
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Bonn1997
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11/12/2011  2:44 PM
Nalod wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
This works both ways. Players don't live up to contracts, players out of shape, lying, don't condition, fake injury, drugs, and we don't know half of it!

What percentage come in out of shape and lie about injuries? People who bring this up just like to whine. It's too rare to be taken seriously.

Most do live up to contracts and are professional. That was my point, why bother going to war over a few


Now I'm confused. Which side are you saying shouldn't bother to go over war on this issue?
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RonRon
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11/12/2011  2:58 PM
if this deal is signed, it could greatly benefit the Nets. They have the the money to add more much more salary. These new rules basically say if Stars aren't happy in their current teams, they can't get their money teams that would be over the cap. But they can still unite like they did in Miami, if the team has the salary cap to do so.

Deron can opt out, if not, their salary is about 36m, Brook would be receiving a qualifying offer. They can either take a shot at signing 1-2 near max free agents or decide to cute Brook and Damiem Jones. Deron can also opt out and take less money and they will do a restructured deal that will let the team add more talent. Under the new rules, I don't know if another team offers Brook an offer, and if they use the rest of their cap this summer, can they go over the cap so sign their own players in which they have the bird rights to?

These rules just prevent teams that are over the cap from taking the talents from smaller market teams but doesn't prevent the smaller market teams from adding to the core.
It doesn't really solve anything. Players can still choose their destinations, only to teams that are under the cap. Most importantly, the teams that are losing their "stars" will get nothing in return.
nixluva
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11/12/2011  4:28 PM
RonRon wrote:if this deal is signed, it could greatly benefit the Nets. They have the the money to add more much more salary. These new rules basically say if Stars aren't happy in their current teams, they can't get their money teams that would be over the cap. But they can still unite like they did in Miami, if the team has the salary cap to do so.

Deron can opt out, if not, their salary is about 36m, Brook would be receiving a qualifying offer. They can either take a shot at signing 1-2 near max free agents or decide to cute Brook and Damiem Jones. Deron can also opt out and take less money and they will do a restructured deal that will let the team add more talent. Under the new rules, I don't know if another team offers Brook an offer, and if they use the rest of their cap this summer, can they go over the cap so sign their own players in which they have the bird rights to?

These rules just prevent teams that are over the cap from taking the talents from smaller market teams but doesn't prevent the smaller market teams from adding to the core.
It doesn't really solve anything. Players can still choose their destinations, only to teams that are under the cap. Most importantly, the teams that are losing their "stars" will get nothing in return.

Yeah what gets lost is that Miami did it the right way! They got under the cap and signed FA's! Nothing could stop that. The Knicks had cleared cap space to sign FA's and if you make deals why is that a bad thing? Denver did what was in their best interest. They didn't have to make a deal but they made a great deal for Melo so how is that bad? Utah made a preemptive strike trading Deron! Small Mkt teams need a better system that can give them a better shot to draft talent that is cheap! Still team management has to draft well and make good decisions which they don't always do! None of these rules fix bad drafting or bad personnel moves!!!
tkf
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11/12/2011  4:39 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL.

The owners run the league. They can make the changes they deem fit. If the players don't like it they can run to the courts and pray for a miracle.

This is a labor negotiation. It's not personal, it's business. You're taking it personal and a lot of players are taking it personal. This is the problem here. The owners don't "hate" the players and they aren't doing anything out of spite. This is an offer they are making with their best interests at stake and with what they view the best interests for the players because they are not willing to go any further.

Again, it is in their right to make whatever they deem to be their best offer and it is in their right to make changes to a system they are unhappy with. The owners are not just some faceless trillionaires who are willing to take millions in losses every season just to satisfy the players. The system is already broken. This isn't about 50/50. This is about a system that the NBA poorly constructed in the last two CBA's and is paying for it now by having to make all these radical changes. These changes should've never had to be made because they should have never been agreed upon to begin with.

The NBA has the highest paid athletes of any North American sport as a whole. They get guaranteed money no matter what they do (Eddy Curry) and they got a bigger slice of the pie from a third-rate business (third rated sport in NA after baseball and football) for years. Now the economy has taken a dive. It's time to start fresh. CBA's signed in the past have no impact on what the current economic conditions are.

If the players want to fight it it is in their right to do so. But the NBA has not done anything wrong legally, no matter what you think. Stern could care about his legacy but he works for the owners. And decertification doesn't make the owners gulp and look down. Decertification is a tried-and-failed tactic that will only waste time, lose everyone money and accomplish nothing. It will probably make the offer even worse than what the 'reset' proposal will be. Wouldn't that be a hoot? For them to go through all that only to get the worst offer they could?

VERY WELL put. too bad so many fans have this blind hate for rich owners, and basically see the NBA as a wealth transfer program.. that the owners should be grateful that the players are giving them 43% of the revenue from businesses they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in.

As you said and I have said many times... these NBA players are the highest paid on average of any sport in the world... they also have guaranteed deals as well as many other perks the NBA provides... the owners have to fix the CBA, it is flawed and slanted heavily in the players favor.. of course they are going to want to fight to keep it close as possible.. that is their right, but it doesn't make this fight smart... in the end, they are going to lose....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/12/2011  4:49 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:I'll bring it down very easily.

NBA players are like Hollywood actors.

Dicaprio will get $20 million for doing a movie for example.

If the movie makes money at the box office, Dicaprio gets a share of the profits. But he doesn't get 50%. The studio rakes in the majority of the money.

Why? The studio puts up all the money for him, the other actors and everything else that goes into making a movie. They invest in the movie. They finance the movie. They advertise the movie. They accommodate everyone involved in the movie.

The actors are the attraction. People come to see the actors. People pay to see the actors. People don't pay to see studios. They pay to see actors. Why shouldn't the actors get more of the profits? Why should the studios make ridiculous amounts of money off the actors when the actor is the one everyone wants to see? Why? Because without the studios there would be no movie and without a movie to finance there would be no actors.

The studio is the boss and the actor is the employee. The studio makes the rules and the actors can accept them or go find something else to do. It's quite simple. This is a business. This is the way the NBA wants to run its' business. You can either accept it or prolong it by going through the court system. Either way, the owners are the boss. They make the rules. The players are the actors who are following the script.

And when the studio tells dicaprio that instead of the 20 mil he made on inception, they can only pay him 17 mil on the sequel because of budget restraints, dicaprio can either accept it or decline, but for him to sit there and say, well I am "GIVING" You back 3 mil so I want other concessions from you, would also be ridiculous.... the language the players are using "giving back" really sickens me... how can you give something you don't own.. this is not a renegotiation.

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/12/2011  5:00 PM
eViL wrote:anyone who doesn't think the owners are taking things a tad bit personal didn't read Dan Gilbert's open letter to LeBron.

Gilberts letter to lebron doesn't bother me one bit... what bothers me were lebrons comments after the finals about people waking up the next morning with their same problems and he will still be lebron james... Now that bothers me..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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11/12/2011  10:24 PM
tkf wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:I'll bring it down very easily.

NBA players are like Hollywood actors.

Dicaprio will get $20 million for doing a movie for example.

If the movie makes money at the box office, Dicaprio gets a share of the profits. But he doesn't get 50%. The studio rakes in the majority of the money.

Why? The studio puts up all the money for him, the other actors and everything else that goes into making a movie. They invest in the movie. They finance the movie. They advertise the movie. They accommodate everyone involved in the movie.

The actors are the attraction. People come to see the actors. People pay to see the actors. People don't pay to see studios. They pay to see actors. Why shouldn't the actors get more of the profits? Why should the studios make ridiculous amounts of money off the actors when the actor is the one everyone wants to see? Why? Because without the studios there would be no movie and without a movie to finance there would be no actors.

The studio is the boss and the actor is the employee. The studio makes the rules and the actors can accept them or go find something else to do. It's quite simple. This is a business. This is the way the NBA wants to run its' business. You can either accept it or prolong it by going through the court system. Either way, the owners are the boss. They make the rules. The players are the actors who are following the script.

And when the studio tells dicaprio that instead of the 20 mil he made on inception, they can only pay him 17 mil on the sequel because of budget restraints, dicaprio can either accept it or decline, but for him to sit there and say, well I am "GIVING" You back 3 mil so I want other concessions from you, would also be ridiculous.... the language the players are using "giving back" really sickens me... how can you give something you don't own.. this is not a renegotiation.

I disagree! If you read the CBA it CLEARLY refers to previous CBA's and is rarely a clean slate or restart from scratch. The changes are usually incremental! This attempt to reset is the most drastic change we've seen in 20 years.

The players should be looked at by the owners as partners and not just employees. If they did that and struck a more of a respectful tone things could work a lot smoother. None of these CBA agreements originate with the players so if the framework doesn't work the owners only have themselves to blame! The players produced on the court last year and he fans responded. The financial mismanagement of some teams isn't The fault of the players and neither is it the players fault that teams like the Knicks and Lakers horde the millions the get from TV and aren't sharing that with the players or the other owners!!! Heck deceit on the NY TV deal is WRITTEN into the CBA! The Knicks only pay an amount equal to the Lakers old local TV deal!!! You just know that isn't even close to what the Knicks make and they aren't even obligated to report what they actually make claiming it would be near impossible to estimate!

The fight is really between big and small mkts! So far the league hasn't even revealed exactly how they're going to address the issue.
eViL
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11/12/2011  10:26 PM
tkf wrote:
eViL wrote:anyone who doesn't think the owners are taking things a tad bit personal didn't read Dan Gilbert's open letter to LeBron.

Gilberts letter to lebron doesn't bother me one bit... what bothers me were lebrons comments after the finals about people waking up the next morning with their same problems and he will still be lebron james... Now that bothers me..

i didn't bring it up to debate what bothers you. i brought it up to point out that the owners are not the emotion-less strictly business masters of logic they are being portrayed as here. they too are susceptible to emotion and i feel that, in part, their hard-line stance is buttressed by an emotional response to the star players who recently forged their own paths through trades and free agent signings. if the owners have it their way, then player movement in the NBA will be more restricted than it's ever been...

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
tkf
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11/13/2011  2:48 AM
nixluva wrote:
tkf wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:I'll bring it down very easily.

NBA players are like Hollywood actors.

Dicaprio will get $20 million for doing a movie for example.

If the movie makes money at the box office, Dicaprio gets a share of the profits. But he doesn't get 50%. The studio rakes in the majority of the money.

Why? The studio puts up all the money for him, the other actors and everything else that goes into making a movie. They invest in the movie. They finance the movie. They advertise the movie. They accommodate everyone involved in the movie.

The actors are the attraction. People come to see the actors. People pay to see the actors. People don't pay to see studios. They pay to see actors. Why shouldn't the actors get more of the profits? Why should the studios make ridiculous amounts of money off the actors when the actor is the one everyone wants to see? Why? Because without the studios there would be no movie and without a movie to finance there would be no actors.

The studio is the boss and the actor is the employee. The studio makes the rules and the actors can accept them or go find something else to do. It's quite simple. This is a business. This is the way the NBA wants to run its' business. You can either accept it or prolong it by going through the court system. Either way, the owners are the boss. They make the rules. The players are the actors who are following the script.

And when the studio tells dicaprio that instead of the 20 mil he made on inception, they can only pay him 17 mil on the sequel because of budget restraints, dicaprio can either accept it or decline, but for him to sit there and say, well I am "GIVING" You back 3 mil so I want other concessions from you, would also be ridiculous.... the language the players are using "giving back" really sickens me... how can you give something you don't own.. this is not a renegotiation.

I disagree! If you read the CBA it CLEARLY refers to previous CBA's and is rarely a clean slate or restart from scratch. The changes are usually incremental! This attempt to reset is the most drastic change we've seen in 20 years.

The players should be looked at by the owners as partners and not just employees. If they did that and struck a more of a respectful tone things could work a lot smoother. None of these CBA agreements originate with the players so if the framework doesn't work the owners only have themselves to blame! The players produced on the court last year and he fans responded. The financial mismanagement of some teams isn't The fault of the players and neither is it the players fault that teams like the Knicks and Lakers horde the millions the get from TV and aren't sharing that with the players or the other owners!!! Heck deceit on the NY TV deal is WRITTEN into the CBA! The Knicks only pay an amount equal to the Lakers old local TV deal!!! You just know that isn't even close to what the Knicks make and they aren't even obligated to report what they actually make claiming it would be near impossible to estimate!

The fight is really between big and small mkts! So far the league hasn't even revealed exactly how they're going to address the issue.

fine, tell them to put in about 200+ mil split the profits up 50/50 after all expenses,then they will be looked at as partners, anything else other than that is just entitlement talk..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/13/2011  2:49 AM
eViL wrote:
tkf wrote:
eViL wrote:anyone who doesn't think the owners are taking things a tad bit personal didn't read Dan Gilbert's open letter to LeBron.

Gilberts letter to lebron doesn't bother me one bit... what bothers me were lebrons comments after the finals about people waking up the next morning with their same problems and he will still be lebron james... Now that bothers me..

i didn't bring it up to debate what bothers you. i brought it up to point out that the owners are not the emotion-less strictly business masters of logic they are being portrayed as here. they too are susceptible to emotion and i feel that, in part, their hard-line stance is buttressed by an emotional response to the star players who recently forged their own paths through trades and free agent signings. if the owners have it their way, then player movement in the NBA will be more restricted than it's ever been...

I am sure the owners have some emotion in this, they are heavily tied to the NBA financially... they don't want to feel like they are being jerked around by players who feel they are entitled to do whatever they want.. to have it all... so yea, I don't blame gilbert one bit.... Now i is time for him to turn the knife a bit... so be it.. lebron had no problem doing it... yes, lebron had the right to leave as a FA, and gilbert and the rest of the owners are withing their rights as well right now....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
smackeddog
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11/13/2011  11:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/13/2011  11:22 AM
tkf wrote:

VERY WELL put. too bad so many fans have this blind hate for rich owners, and basically see the NBA as a wealth transfer program..

I know we're never going to agree on anything during this lockout, but one thing that does keep bothering me in your arguments is that you keep declaring that the NBA is not a wealth transfer programme, however how do you justify the luxury tax penalties AND on top of that revenue sharing from the rich teams to the poor- why do you not classify tha tas a wealth transfer programme? The players are not only the labour but they are also the product- when they get paid it is for this service- the poorer owners are wanting money from rich teams in return for providing NOTHING- they are the ones demanding a wealth transfer system- why do you never seem to acknowledge this?

The owners are the ones trying to change the NBA into a wealth transfer programme.
tkf
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11/13/2011  12:34 PM
smackeddog wrote:
tkf wrote:

VERY WELL put. too bad so many fans have this blind hate for rich owners, and basically see the NBA as a wealth transfer program..

I know we're never going to agree on anything during this lockout, but one thing that does keep bothering me in your arguments is that you keep declaring that the NBA is not a wealth transfer programme, however how do you justify the luxury tax penalties AND on top of that revenue sharing from the rich teams to the poor- why do you not classify tha tas a wealth transfer programme? The players are not only the labour but they are also the product- when they get paid it is for this service- the poorer owners are wanting money from rich teams in return for providing NOTHING- they are the ones demanding a wealth transfer system- why do you never seem to acknowledge this?

The owners are the ones trying to change the NBA into a wealth transfer programme.

I am not a fan of huge revenue sharing as well, I see every year how my Yankees give small market teams money, that the owners pocket and then every few years they will use the money to go on a spending spree.... but the owners are more like partners in the NBA, they collectively own the league, so it is in the best interest for all teams to have a fair shot to be strong and competitive..... so really I see where you are going, but it is not the same thing....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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11/13/2011  1:41 PM
Man don't bring that conservative political BS into this! The NBA and pro sports in particular aren't free market enterprises anyway. They get away with crap no REAL business would be able to do! In any event let's at least accept that the players as a group bring a huge amount of value and sweet equity into the bargain and the fact that franchises are WORTH hundreds of millions now is almost entirely due to the talents of the players! Bird and Magic saved the NBA and the NBA had nothing to do with building fan interest in either player. The NCAA did that! H.S. and the media built up Lebron! So when many of the small Mkt teams in their rat hole stadiums get one of these players they benefit greatly! Also when one of these small Mkt teams gets a new arena funded by the fans it's more evidence of the good fortune these owners receive that is given to them like a gift.
tkf
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11/13/2011  2:53 PM
nixluva wrote:Man don't bring that conservative political BS into this! The NBA and pro sports in particular aren't free market enterprises anyway. They get away with crap no REAL business would be able to do! In any event let's at least accept that the players as a group bring a huge amount of value and sweet equity into the bargain and the fact that franchises are WORTH hundreds of millions now is almost entirely due to the talents of the players! Bird and Magic saved the NBA and the NBA had nothing to do with building fan interest in either player. The NCAA did that! H.S. and the media built up Lebron! So when many of the small Mkt teams in their rat hole stadiums get one of these players they benefit greatly! Also when one of these small Mkt teams gets a new arena funded by the fans it's more evidence of the good fortune these owners receive that is given to them like a gift.

nix if you really think the players are being taken advantage of, tell them to take their tweets, their bentleys, diamond earings and moronic behavior overseas.... You act as if these guys are doing the owners a favor... You get so upset that men who invest billions into a business get to reap the benefits, I just don't get it... the players get paid a lot of money to play ball, and it doesn't matter if the value of the franchises increase, they increase because of the owners investments, in players, stadiums, coachs, facilities, and everything else that came out of their multi million dollar investments man!!!!! just stop it, if you and the players feel they deserve more, there are teams in europ and china waiting , just waiting to pay them less than half of what they are making now...

As I said, my friend is a chemist, he helps create products for his company, the company makes millions off of his ideas, and in turn he makes a hefty salary... that is his compensation. the company provides millions of dollars worth of lab equiptment for him to develop products, something he could not do without that capital.... and in turn the company makes millions.. He gets a great salary.. If he wants more, he can go get investors, a bank loan and take the risk himself!!!!!!!! it is just that friggin simple man!!!! instead he enjoys the security of a nice paycheck and benefits and rather not take the risk.. again, that is HIS choice... tell the players to chose or shut the hell up!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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11/13/2011  3:12 PM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:Man don't bring that conservative political BS into this! The NBA and pro sports in particular aren't free market enterprises anyway. They get away with crap no REAL business would be able to do! In any event let's at least accept that the players as a group bring a huge amount of value and sweet equity into the bargain and the fact that franchises are WORTH hundreds of millions now is almost entirely due to the talents of the players! Bird and Magic saved the NBA and the NBA had nothing to do with building fan interest in either player. The NCAA did that! H.S. and the media built up Lebron! So when many of the small Mkt teams in their rat hole stadiums get one of these players they benefit greatly! Also when one of these small Mkt teams gets a new arena funded by the fans it's more evidence of the good fortune these owners receive that is given to them like a gift.

nix if you really think the players are being taken advantage of, tell them to take their tweets, their bentleys, diamond earings and moronic behavior overseas.... You act as if these guys are doing the owners a favor... You get so upset that men who invest billions into a business get to reap the benefits, I just don't get it... the players get paid a lot of money to play ball, and it doesn't matter if the value of the franchises increase, they increase because of the owners investments, in players, stadiums, coachs, facilities, and everything else that came out of their multi million dollar investments man!!!!! just stop it, if you and the players feel they deserve more, there are teams in europ and china waiting , just waiting to pay them less than half of what they are making now...

As I said, my friend is a chemist, he helps create products for his company, the company makes millions off of his ideas, and in turn he makes a hefty salary... that is his compensation. the company provides millions of dollars worth of lab equiptment for him to develop products, something he could not do without that capital.... and in turn the company makes millions.. He gets a great salary.. If he wants more, he can go get investors, a bank loan and take the risk himself!!!!!!!! it is just that friggin simple man!!!! instead he enjoys the security of a nice paycheck and benefits and rather not take the risk.. again, that is HIS choice... tell the players to chose or shut the hell up!


You don't have to be so one-sided. You're right that the next available option for the players is $hitty. But the next available option for the owners (Europlayers, draft new rookies out of college) is awful for them too. The two sides desperately need each other.
tkf
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11/13/2011  4:01 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:Man don't bring that conservative political BS into this! The NBA and pro sports in particular aren't free market enterprises anyway. They get away with crap no REAL business would be able to do! In any event let's at least accept that the players as a group bring a huge amount of value and sweet equity into the bargain and the fact that franchises are WORTH hundreds of millions now is almost entirely due to the talents of the players! Bird and Magic saved the NBA and the NBA had nothing to do with building fan interest in either player. The NCAA did that! H.S. and the media built up Lebron! So when many of the small Mkt teams in their rat hole stadiums get one of these players they benefit greatly! Also when one of these small Mkt teams gets a new arena funded by the fans it's more evidence of the good fortune these owners receive that is given to them like a gift.

nix if you really think the players are being taken advantage of, tell them to take their tweets, their bentleys, diamond earings and moronic behavior overseas.... You act as if these guys are doing the owners a favor... You get so upset that men who invest billions into a business get to reap the benefits, I just don't get it... the players get paid a lot of money to play ball, and it doesn't matter if the value of the franchises increase, they increase because of the owners investments, in players, stadiums, coachs, facilities, and everything else that came out of their multi million dollar investments man!!!!! just stop it, if you and the players feel they deserve more, there are teams in europ and china waiting , just waiting to pay them less than half of what they are making now...

As I said, my friend is a chemist, he helps create products for his company, the company makes millions off of his ideas, and in turn he makes a hefty salary... that is his compensation. the company provides millions of dollars worth of lab equiptment for him to develop products, something he could not do without that capital.... and in turn the company makes millions.. He gets a great salary.. If he wants more, he can go get investors, a bank loan and take the risk himself!!!!!!!! it is just that friggin simple man!!!! instead he enjoys the security of a nice paycheck and benefits and rather not take the risk.. again, that is HIS choice... tell the players to chose or shut the hell up!


You don't have to be so one-sided. You're right that the next available option for the players is $hitty. But the next available option for the owners (Europlayers, draft new rookies out of college) is awful for them too. The two sides desperately need each other.

No the next steps for the owners are to shut down the league and go run their other multi million dollar businesses.. or start over and pick from the players who would consider these so called "draconian" offers better than anything else in the world..... and then you have the new crop of college players who are not in the union and would love to get paid 47% of a few billion dollars.. the owners have a lot of good choices... the players have little choice... I am just telling it like it is.... has nothing to do with being one sided.. I can't control the facts..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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11/13/2011  4:15 PM
tkf wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:Man don't bring that conservative political BS into this! The NBA and pro sports in particular aren't free market enterprises anyway. They get away with crap no REAL business would be able to do! In any event let's at least accept that the players as a group bring a huge amount of value and sweet equity into the bargain and the fact that franchises are WORTH hundreds of millions now is almost entirely due to the talents of the players! Bird and Magic saved the NBA and the NBA had nothing to do with building fan interest in either player. The NCAA did that! H.S. and the media built up Lebron! So when many of the small Mkt teams in their rat hole stadiums get one of these players they benefit greatly! Also when one of these small Mkt teams gets a new arena funded by the fans it's more evidence of the good fortune these owners receive that is given to them like a gift.

nix if you really think the players are being taken advantage of, tell them to take their tweets, their bentleys, diamond earings and moronic behavior overseas.... You act as if these guys are doing the owners a favor... You get so upset that men who invest billions into a business get to reap the benefits, I just don't get it... the players get paid a lot of money to play ball, and it doesn't matter if the value of the franchises increase, they increase because of the owners investments, in players, stadiums, coachs, facilities, and everything else that came out of their multi million dollar investments man!!!!! just stop it, if you and the players feel they deserve more, there are teams in europ and china waiting , just waiting to pay them less than half of what they are making now...

As I said, my friend is a chemist, he helps create products for his company, the company makes millions off of his ideas, and in turn he makes a hefty salary... that is his compensation. the company provides millions of dollars worth of lab equiptment for him to develop products, something he could not do without that capital.... and in turn the company makes millions.. He gets a great salary.. If he wants more, he can go get investors, a bank loan and take the risk himself!!!!!!!! it is just that friggin simple man!!!! instead he enjoys the security of a nice paycheck and benefits and rather not take the risk.. again, that is HIS choice... tell the players to chose or shut the hell up!


You don't have to be so one-sided. You're right that the next available option for the players is $hitty. But the next available option for the owners (Europlayers, draft new rookies out of college) is awful for them too. The two sides desperately need each other.

No the next steps for the owners are to shut down the league and go run their other multi million dollar businesses.. or start over and pick from the players who would consider these so called "draconian" offers better than anything else in the world..... and then you have the new crop of college players who are not in the union and would love to get paid 47% of a few billion dollars.. the owners have a lot of good choices... the players have little choice... I am just telling it like it is.... has nothing to do with being one sided.. I can't control the facts..


And then hold onto hundred million dollar stadiums (with huge mortgage payments) that have no use? Or try to sell basketball stadiums to a potential buyer who knows there's no NBA? Those, like I said, are really bad options for the owners.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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11/13/2011  4:55 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:Man don't bring that conservative political BS into this! The NBA and pro sports in particular aren't free market enterprises anyway. They get away with crap no REAL business would be able to do! In any event let's at least accept that the players as a group bring a huge amount of value and sweet equity into the bargain and the fact that franchises are WORTH hundreds of millions now is almost entirely due to the talents of the players! Bird and Magic saved the NBA and the NBA had nothing to do with building fan interest in either player. The NCAA did that! H.S. and the media built up Lebron! So when many of the small Mkt teams in their rat hole stadiums get one of these players they benefit greatly! Also when one of these small Mkt teams gets a new arena funded by the fans it's more evidence of the good fortune these owners receive that is given to them like a gift.

nix if you really think the players are being taken advantage of, tell them to take their tweets, their bentleys, diamond earings and moronic behavior overseas.... You act as if these guys are doing the owners a favor... You get so upset that men who invest billions into a business get to reap the benefits, I just don't get it... the players get paid a lot of money to play ball, and it doesn't matter if the value of the franchises increase, they increase because of the owners investments, in players, stadiums, coachs, facilities, and everything else that came out of their multi million dollar investments man!!!!! just stop it, if you and the players feel they deserve more, there are teams in europ and china waiting , just waiting to pay them less than half of what they are making now...

As I said, my friend is a chemist, he helps create products for his company, the company makes millions off of his ideas, and in turn he makes a hefty salary... that is his compensation. the company provides millions of dollars worth of lab equiptment for him to develop products, something he could not do without that capital.... and in turn the company makes millions.. He gets a great salary.. If he wants more, he can go get investors, a bank loan and take the risk himself!!!!!!!! it is just that friggin simple man!!!! instead he enjoys the security of a nice paycheck and benefits and rather not take the risk.. again, that is HIS choice... tell the players to chose or shut the hell up!


You don't have to be so one-sided. You're right that the next available option for the players is $hitty. But the next available option for the owners (Europlayers, draft new rookies out of college) is awful for them too. The two sides desperately need each other.

No the next steps for the owners are to shut down the league and go run their other multi million dollar businesses.. or start over and pick from the players who would consider these so called "draconian" offers better than anything else in the world..... and then you have the new crop of college players who are not in the union and would love to get paid 47% of a few billion dollars.. the owners have a lot of good choices... the players have little choice... I am just telling it like it is.... has nothing to do with being one sided.. I can't control the facts..


And then hold onto hundred million dollar stadiums (with huge mortgage payments) that have no use? Or try to sell basketball stadiums to a potential buyer who knows there's no NBA? Those, like I said, are really bad options for the owners.

That's right! And just how did the values of these franchises get so high in the 1st place??? Bird, Magic, Jordan... If you're old enough to remember the league before those kinds of great players excited the fans and brought in bigger and better TV deals which made owners very successful franchises then you would understand why players in the NBA get paid so much.

The owners didn't make the league great! New owners came in sniffing money when hey saw how popular the league was getting. This drove the value of franchises up and allowed owners to get new arenas, sponsors and TV Deals!!! No matter how you look at it the players are the single most important factor. If you have talent like Wade and Lebron but had them play in an ugly arena fans would still go to see them!!!!

No great players and franchises suffer! Bring in great players and franchises thrive. Provided the franchise isn't mismanaged!!! Look at how the Magic have been mismanaged. There's no way they should be losing money!!! With all the pick the T'Wolves have had they should be like the Thunder! Don't blame the players for poorly run teams and dumb CBA systems.
ItalianStallion
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11/13/2011  7:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/13/2011  7:01 PM
Some of the increase in the value of the franchises has been hot air speculation much like in real estate before the current bust and dot com companies in the 90s before that bust. The only thing that really matters is earnings and cash flow and the owners are currently losing their shirts.
Bonn1997
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11/13/2011  8:47 PM
tkf wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL.

The owners run the league. They can make the changes they deem fit. If the players don't like it they can run to the courts and pray for a miracle.

This is a labor negotiation. It's not personal, it's business. You're taking it personal and a lot of players are taking it personal. This is the problem here. The owners don't "hate" the players and they aren't doing anything out of spite. This is an offer they are making with their best interests at stake and with what they view the best interests for the players because they are not willing to go any further.

Again, it is in their right to make whatever they deem to be their best offer and it is in their right to make changes to a system they are unhappy with. The owners are not just some faceless trillionaires who are willing to take millions in losses every season just to satisfy the players. The system is already broken. This isn't about 50/50. This is about a system that the NBA poorly constructed in the last two CBA's and is paying for it now by having to make all these radical changes. These changes should've never had to be made because they should have never been agreed upon to begin with.

The NBA has the highest paid athletes of any North American sport as a whole. They get guaranteed money no matter what they do (Eddy Curry) and they got a bigger slice of the pie from a third-rate business (third rated sport in NA after baseball and football) for years. Now the economy has taken a dive. It's time to start fresh. CBA's signed in the past have no impact on what the current economic conditions are.

If the players want to fight it it is in their right to do so. But the NBA has not done anything wrong legally, no matter what you think. Stern could care about his legacy but he works for the owners. And decertification doesn't make the owners gulp and look down. Decertification is a tried-and-failed tactic that will only waste time, lose everyone money and accomplish nothing. It will probably make the offer even worse than what the 'reset' proposal will be. Wouldn't that be a hoot? For them to go through all that only to get the worst offer they could?

VERY WELL put. too bad so many fans have this blind hate for rich owners, and basically see the NBA as a wealth transfer program.. that the owners should be grateful that the players are giving them 43% of the revenue from businesses they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in.

As you said and I have said many times... these NBA players are the highest paid on average of any sport in the world... they also have guaranteed deals as well as many other perks the NBA provides... the owners have to fix the CBA, it is flawed and slanted heavily in the players favor.. of course they are going to want to fight to keep it close as possible.. that is their right, but it doesn't make this fight smart... in the end, they are going to lose....


It's harder to make it to the NBA than the other three major sports. The NBA has 450 players whereas the other big three each have around a thousand (give or take a couple hundred). A fair comparison would be the the average salaries of the top 450 paid players in each league.
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Alex Kennedy tweet: Source: No deal. Total BS. The deal got worse.
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