Bippity10 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I understand the protestors frustration and agree that there is some craziness happening on Wall Street that someone needs to pay for (Bear Stearns,Naked short selling etc). That being said, I'm not sure how you have a legitimate protest, without a focused message. If you are a "fat cat banker" with a heart how can you fight to change a system for people when you have no idea what they are complaining about. "Corporate Greed", "fat cat bankers", "lazy protestors", "college slackers", "throw wall streeters in jail". It's basically just people whining about each other. It doesn't get to the heart of the problem at all. Without a focused message how are the "corporate fat cats" going to get any type of message?

Personally I think the protests should start on wall street and finish at the white house (not just Obama, but all the politicians in power) who talk a great game but continue their alliance. Democrats, Republicans and Big business all work together to keep each other in power and in the money. Republicans have been great about communicating to the upper middle class and making them believe that they are out for them, when in reality their decisions are being made by the super rich. Democrats have done a wonderful job of communicating to the middle class and below and making them believe that they are out for them. In the end, no matter who is in power, our standard of living decreases. One day, we will all get this, stop believing these two parties, become an independent and make both parties earn our votes.

-The new and improved, kinder and genter, sweeter and less sarcastic, Bipman

Amen Bipster! You're probably still throwing rocks at small baby animals though.

You didn't appear to finish your sentence on Democrats, however. Who's really making the decisions for the Democrats. Hmmmmmm.
I actually voted independent in the last two elections, by the way. Unfortunately, we are as pragmatic a society as they come. Nobody wants to "waste their vote" on someone "who won't win".

The Democrats are the exact same. If you really follow the trail of money they are no differetn then the Republicans. They're just good at throwing a bone our way every now and then to make it look like they are affecting change for us. Meanwhile some really odd stuff went down with Bear Stearns that played a part in our collapse and yet neither Republican or Democrat has done anything about it. Some odd stuff went on with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac yet they continue to operate as usual, losing billions. Our home values have all gone in the crapper because of our actions. Yet, little has changed for them. The common thread in all this, is that government did nothing to regulate, stop, fix or prevent. Yet we all take our Republican/Democrat sides, root for "our team" to win, defend "our team" regardless of their actions/inactions, blast the "opposing team" at all costs, and they just laugh at us. They all go back to the safety of Washington and count their own money, all the while your life gets no better. But you do get to have fun arguing in chat rooms about which "team" the Republicans or Democrats are going to win the title next election.

I lived inside the market collapse...I had friends at Bear Stearns...I was working at Merrill when all the sheehit finally hit the fan. Market greed and the fact that hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions) got into mortgages they could not possibly afford, created the CDO nightmare. Was Bear Stearns and Merrill and Lehman and all those big evil CEO's at fault? You're damn right they were. The Merrill CEO was unabashedly proud of the revenue stream that essentially unsecured paper was bringing in. But how do you regulate people getting into mortgages they should never be in to begin with? How much regulation do you want telling you what you can and can't afford? Without balloon mortgages and insane sliding rates and all these other idiotic transactions backing all this illegitimate paper, where do you propose starting the legislation/regulation enema? Blaming government for not stopping, fixing and preventing people's greed and idiocy is a pipe dream. I was unemployed for over a year, living on canned corn and the hope that I would somehow get to keep my house. I'm lower middle class white amuhrica. I don't live in a McMansion community. I live in a one level ranch home and work in IT. I took a huge paycut just to have a job. My 401K is gone. I've voted Republican/anti-Democrat basically on the abortion issue, but I've also voted independent several times. I have little tolerance for people stomping their feet and demanding their rights and entitlements (opportunities) when they have no plan, no ideas, just some old reheated '60's rhetoric about the Great Society and stopping the war and hating the establishment. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. What's amazing to me, is I wonder if the same people who are eulogizing Steve Jobs are the same people supporting OWS?

So what is the accomplishment? A million tweets? A billion hits on a Facebook page? Comparing this to Egyptians overthrowing their government is silly. What are these people going to overthrow? The same infrastructure and network and society that allows them to stand around protesting and tweeting and posting? To beget what?

Please, give me a plan or give me death, but don't tell me about a billion people messaging each other about nothing.

jrodmc wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I understand the protestors frustration and agree that there is some craziness happening on Wall Street that someone needs to pay for (Bear Stearns,Naked short selling etc). That being said, I'm not sure how you have a legitimate protest, without a focused message. If you are a "fat cat banker" with a heart how can you fight to change a system for people when you have no idea what they are complaining about. "Corporate Greed", "fat cat bankers", "lazy protestors", "college slackers", "throw wall streeters in jail". It's basically just people whining about each other. It doesn't get to the heart of the problem at all. Without a focused message how are the "corporate fat cats" going to get any type of message?

Personally I think the protests should start on wall street and finish at the white house (not just Obama, but all the politicians in power) who talk a great game but continue their alliance. Democrats, Republicans and Big business all work together to keep each other in power and in the money. Republicans have been great about communicating to the upper middle class and making them believe that they are out for them, when in reality their decisions are being made by the super rich. Democrats have done a wonderful job of communicating to the middle class and below and making them believe that they are out for them. In the end, no matter who is in power, our standard of living decreases. One day, we will all get this, stop believing these two parties, become an independent and make both parties earn our votes.

-The new and improved, kinder and genter, sweeter and less sarcastic, Bipman

Amen Bipster! You're probably still throwing rocks at small baby animals though.

You didn't appear to finish your sentence on Democrats, however. Who's really making the decisions for the Democrats. Hmmmmmm.
I actually voted independent in the last two elections, by the way. Unfortunately, we are as pragmatic a society as they come. Nobody wants to "waste their vote" on someone "who won't win".

The Democrats are the exact same. If you really follow the trail of money they are no differetn then the Republicans. They're just good at throwing a bone our way every now and then to make it look like they are affecting change for us. Meanwhile some really odd stuff went down with Bear Stearns that played a part in our collapse and yet neither Republican or Democrat has done anything about it. Some odd stuff went on with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac yet they continue to operate as usual, losing billions. Our home values have all gone in the crapper because of our actions. Yet, little has changed for them. The common thread in all this, is that government did nothing to regulate, stop, fix or prevent. Yet we all take our Republican/Democrat sides, root for "our team" to win, defend "our team" regardless of their actions/inactions, blast the "opposing team" at all costs, and they just laugh at us. They all go back to the safety of Washington and count their own money, all the while your life gets no better. But you do get to have fun arguing in chat rooms about which "team" the Republicans or Democrats are going to win the title next election.

I lived inside the market collapse...I had friends at Bear Stearns...I was working at Merrill when all the sheehit finally hit the fan. Market greed and the fact that hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions) got into mortgages they could not possibly afford, created the CDO nightmare. Was Bear Stearns and Merrill and Lehman and all those big evil CEO's at fault? You're damn right they were. The Merrill CEO was unabashedly proud of the revenue stream that essentially unsecured paper was bringing in. But how do you regulate people getting into mortgages they should never be in to begin with? How much regulation do you want telling you what you can and can't afford? Without balloon mortgages and insane sliding rates and all these other idiotic transactions backing all this illegitimate paper, where do you propose starting the legislation/regulation enema? Blaming government for not stopping, fixing and preventing people's greed and idiocy is a pipe dream. I was unemployed for over a year, living on canned corn and the hope that I would somehow get to keep my house. I'm lower middle class white amuhrica. I don't live in a McMansion community. I live in a one level ranch home and work in IT. I took a huge paycut just to have a job. My 401K is gone. I've voted Republican/anti-Democrat basically on the abortion issue, but I've also voted independent several times. I have little tolerance for people stomping their feet and demanding their rights and entitlements (opportunities) when they have no plan, no ideas, just some old reheated '60's rhetoric about the Great Society and stopping the war and hating the establishment. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. What's amazing to me, is I wonder if the same people who are eulogizing Steve Jobs are the same people supporting OWS?

So what is the accomplishment? A million tweets? A billion hits on a Facebook page? Comparing this to Egyptians overthrowing their government is silly. What are these people going to overthrow? The same infrastructure and network and society that allows them to stand around protesting and tweeting and posting? To beget what?

Please, give me a plan or give me death, but don't tell me about a billion people messaging each other about nothing.

no politician can accept a donation from any individual for more than $250 and you can only contribute once in a calendar year. Contributions from organizations (including subsides) follow same rules but for $5000

Now you have the people who run and will be doing the running funded by the people. Hows that for a start?

You make good points about why should banks be blamed for people's greed, but who told those people to buy those houeses and refi with loans they couldnt afford? BANKS

Your a family guy Im guessing from you post. Now I work in finance IT also, so you and I have at least had exposure to understanding how terrible those loans are, but what if your not money saavy? You have the country's biggest lenders telling you "we can get you and your family into this house." Its not fair... people want the best for their families. Then the scum who broker those loans, TONS of which were lower income housing condos etc (getting people out of slums into nicer developments) then sell them off as mortage backed securities. Thus the nice influx of cash and revenue with no foundation. Its Enron all over again. They cooked the books man!

Again.. it starts with the people making the rules, and OUR (thats you and me) best interest is not on their agenda.

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'd love to see come out of all this a constitutional amendment that reverses the Citizens United ruling of the Supremes, and seriously limit the amount of money that goes into politics, particularly from corporations.

I also blame the politicians. They keep sucking up to the American people: "you look great! have you lost weight? this is the greatest country in the world! everyone deserves the American dream!" Now I'm not saying down with the USA but we need to start looking at ourselves realistically. Those graphs about income/wealth disparity have people rightfully indignant.

Like the guy said in this awesome "debt ceiling" rant that's been going around on Facebook: "how can I tell my daughter with a straight face that capitalism is a better system than communism, if we are borrowing all our ****in' money from the biggest communist country on the ****in' planet?" and all her toys are made there?

Its a big change and a big start

jrodmc wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I understand the protestors frustration and agree that there is some craziness happening on Wall Street that someone needs to pay for (Bear Stearns,Naked short selling etc). That being said, I'm not sure how you have a legitimate protest, without a focused message. If you are a "fat cat banker" with a heart how can you fight to change a system for people when you have no idea what they are complaining about. "Corporate Greed", "fat cat bankers", "lazy protestors", "college slackers", "throw wall streeters in jail". It's basically just people whining about each other. It doesn't get to the heart of the problem at all. Without a focused message how are the "corporate fat cats" going to get any type of message?

Personally I think the protests should start on wall street and finish at the white house (not just Obama, but all the politicians in power) who talk a great game but continue their alliance. Democrats, Republicans and Big business all work together to keep each other in power and in the money. Republicans have been great about communicating to the upper middle class and making them believe that they are out for them, when in reality their decisions are being made by the super rich. Democrats have done a wonderful job of communicating to the middle class and below and making them believe that they are out for them. In the end, no matter who is in power, our standard of living decreases. One day, we will all get this, stop believing these two parties, become an independent and make both parties earn our votes.

-The new and improved, kinder and genter, sweeter and less sarcastic, Bipman

Amen Bipster! You're probably still throwing rocks at small baby animals though.

You didn't appear to finish your sentence on Democrats, however. Who's really making the decisions for the Democrats. Hmmmmmm.
I actually voted independent in the last two elections, by the way. Unfortunately, we are as pragmatic a society as they come. Nobody wants to "waste their vote" on someone "who won't win".

The Democrats are the exact same. If you really follow the trail of money they are no differetn then the Republicans. They're just good at throwing a bone our way every now and then to make it look like they are affecting change for us. Meanwhile some really odd stuff went down with Bear Stearns that played a part in our collapse and yet neither Republican or Democrat has done anything about it. Some odd stuff went on with Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac yet they continue to operate as usual, losing billions. Our home values have all gone in the crapper because of our actions. Yet, little has changed for them. The common thread in all this, is that government did nothing to regulate, stop, fix or prevent. Yet we all take our Republican/Democrat sides, root for "our team" to win, defend "our team" regardless of their actions/inactions, blast the "opposing team" at all costs, and they just laugh at us. They all go back to the safety of Washington and count their own money, all the while your life gets no better. But you do get to have fun arguing in chat rooms about which "team" the Republicans or Democrats are going to win the title next election.

I lived inside the market collapse...I had friends at Bear Stearns...I was working at Merrill when all the sheehit finally hit the fan. Market greed and the fact that hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions) got into mortgages they could not possibly afford, created the CDO nightmare. Was Bear Stearns and Merrill and Lehman and all those big evil CEO's at fault? You're damn right they were. The Merrill CEO was unabashedly proud of the revenue stream that essentially unsecured paper was bringing in. But how do you regulate people getting into mortgages they should never be in to begin with? How much regulation do you want telling you what you can and can't afford? Without balloon mortgages and insane sliding rates and all these other idiotic transactions backing all this illegitimate paper, where do you propose starting the legislation/regulation enema? Blaming government for not stopping, fixing and preventing people's greed and idiocy is a pipe dream. I was unemployed for over a year, living on canned corn and the hope that I would somehow get to keep my house. I'm lower middle class white amuhrica. I don't live in a McMansion community. I live in a one level ranch home and work in IT. I took a huge paycut just to have a job. My 401K is gone. I've voted Republican/anti-Democrat basically on the abortion issue, but I've also voted independent several times. I have little tolerance for people stomping their feet and demanding their rights and entitlements (opportunities) when they have no plan, no ideas, just some old reheated '60's rhetoric about the Great Society and stopping the war and hating the establishment. It didn't work then, and it won't work now. What's amazing to me, is I wonder if the same people who are eulogizing Steve Jobs are the same people supporting OWS?

So what is the accomplishment? A million tweets? A billion hits on a Facebook page? Comparing this to Egyptians overthrowing their government is silly. What are these people going to overthrow? The same infrastructure and network and society that allows them to stand around protesting and tweeting and posting? To beget what?

Please, give me a plan or give me death, but don't tell me about a billion people messaging each other about nothing.

I agree with you. You can't regulate stupid. Many people got into bad mortgages and have only themselves to blame. That being said it was Fanny and Freddie that laid the ground work and created the incentives that encouraged the corporate greedy fools to go out and purse these fools. Without the incentives our problem does not get as bad as it did.

I'm a small government guy. large centralized power has never turned out well for the people I don't believe we need more regulation, I think we simply need comensical(is that a word) regulation. Then we need that regulation to be inforced. Instead we have a govt that looks the other way when specific donors are involved. This just encourages the "corporate greed" that we continue to see.

jrodmc wrote:I'm breathing easy Markji. You're the one cursing.
Read what you quoted as "good and insightful". Slowly, while you breathe your nose, so your lips can keep moving.

jrod to Markji -Yes, and Bush caused the TARP funds and bush hired a Treasury Secretary who doesn't pay his own taxes, and Bush caused 911 and Bush caused the holocaust. Please, you're as unbalanced as you say Fox is.

In advertising, there is a threshold point....people have to hear the same message repeated over and over many times, and then it reaches the point where people acknowledge and believe it....and then buy the product. You've heard it over and over again and have bought the product - ultra-right hatred of others who think differently than you.

I know you won't listen or accept this. I would be interested to hear what others think of this. Especially because I have a few close friends, who don't know each other, highly educated and intelligent, who are like carbon copies of each other whenever political discussions takes place. They all watch Fox News, listen to Russ Limbaugh and/or other right wing talk show hosts. They react the same way to various points; never acknowledging any correct point that differs from their ideas; always countering by attacking and accusing; And then they also react as jrod did with just wild, over the top, emotional accusations. I bring this up not because I want to continue a name-calling with jrod, but because it does hit me close to home with a few close friends. I would like to know if others experience this.

jrod -I don't beleive it's anyone's homework to find out what a directionless movement is trying to achieve. Other than garnering attention. A movement should already have a direction. Otherwise, why move?

Here is one of their spokesman:

The latest edition of Real Time featured one of Bill Maher’s patented balance things out with three Republicans and one Democrat panels, but the Democrat was Alan Grayson. While fellow panelist P.J. O’Rourke broke out his bathing and hippie jokes, former Rep. Grayson schooled him on Occupy Wall Street.

O’Rourke claimed that the Occupy Wall Street people flunked econ, and Grayson said, “No, listen Bill, I have no trouble understanding what they are talking about.” O’Rourke asked Grayson, “You passed econ?” Grayson answered, “I was an economist for more than three years, so I think so…Now let me tell you about what they’re talking about. They’re complaining that Wall Street wrecked the economy three years ago and nobody’s held responsible for that. Not a single person’s been indicted or convicted for destroying twenty percent of our national net worth accumulated over two centuries. They’re upset about the fact that Wall Street has iron control over the economic policies of this country, and that one party is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street, and the other party caters to them as well.”

They rejected war and wanted social change. They wanted material wealth, vacation homes, nice cars, fancy educations for the kids, exotic trips and look young forever.

The great generation built on the self esteem of winning WW2 and building new communities, new societies, and new enterprise. New schools, new houses and new opportunities were in demand.

The boomers by numbers demanded this growth. Now it is stale and not in demand.

The echo boom will start in a few years.

I still don't know where else I can live that still is better than this country warts and all.

I suppose like the boomers wanted social change in the late 60's, not its a new generation to set the tone for change.

Not a bad idea, and BTW, very American indeed!

Allanfan20 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

Markji wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Democrats, Republicans and Big business all work together to keep each other in power and in the money. Republicans have been great about communicating to the upper middle class and making them believe that they are out for them, when in reality their decisions are being made by the super rich. Democrats have done a wonderful job of communicating to the middle class and below and making them believe that they are out for them. In the end, no matter who is in power, our standard of living decreases. One day, we will all get this, stop believing these two parties, become an independent and make both parties earn our votes.

-The new and improved, kinder and genter, sweeter and less sarcastic, Bipman

Hey Bip, I am also an independent, and stand with you on this.

We have been, and always will be, brothers to the core!

Independants, of UK, led by the GREAT Allanfan20. What does genter mean, BTW? :-P

Genter means I'm going to put a boot in your ass

good article with charts.

America’s rich aren’t giving you money, they’re taking your money. Between the years 1980 and 2005 80% of all new income generated in this country went to the richest
1%. Let me put that in terms that even you fat-ass teabaggers, I’m sorry, can understand.

Say 100 Americans get together and order a 100 slice pizza. The pizza arrives and the first guy takes 80 slices. And if someone suggests, why don’t you just take 79 slices, that’s socialism! I know, I know. I know, I know, it’s just a TV show. But it does reinforce the stupid idea people have that rich people would love us and share with us if only they got to walk a mile in our cheap plastic shoes.

But they’re the reason the shoe factory moved to China. We have this fantasy that our interests and the interests of the super rich are the same. Like somehow the rich will eventually get so full that they’ll explode. And the candy will rain down on the rest of us.

Like there’s some kind of pinata of benevolence. But here’s the thing about a pinata. It doesn’t open on its own. You have to beat it with a stick.