nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks shape up to be a team with 2 heads, one leg, and weak body.

You're wrong!!! This team is as capable as any top team in the East. We have 3 high level players leading the team, which is a great starting point. We have nice young players backing them up. Fields, Williams, TD and Walker all have shown themselves to be a good fit as role players. We drafted a nice guard in Iman Shumpert. We at least have a couple of young PF/C's to take a look at in Jordan and Jorts. I'm sure that we'll find a vet to fill in at C as well.

No this team isn't deep with old vets like the Mavs but that doesn't mean this team can't be a contender with the young guys we have and CB, STAT and Melo as the lead players carrying the load. I think that will be enough to push the team in to the top 4 in the East. Even with all the turmoil the Knicks ended up in the 6th spot. With hopefully an entire season or close to it, this team should be able to finish top 4 in the East.

Fields, Williams, TD and Walker... nice guard in Iman Shumpert... Jordan and Jorts...
Hmmm... This is power...
Billups, Stat, Turiaf...
Hmmm... This is heath and reshness...
I know you are an Optimist... but man... be real.
You are at risk to be very dissapointed.

Billups got injured on a fluke play!!! ANYONE can get hurt on a Knee to Knee collision. It has nothing to do with is age. He's 6-3, 210 lbs of muscle. CB usually is the one dishing out the punishment. Billups has been a very durable player and his style of play is such that he can do what he does well for years more. He's mostly and perimeter player. Billups is a very good 3pt shooter, which on this team is a good thing. People still underestimate just how good CB is. He avg'd 17.5 on 12 shots a game and he wasn't even shooting his normal %. Expect him to be better this year.

STAT should do better as we fill the C spot with capable bodies and keep him from having to bang and burn himself out. I think STAT will be able to get more rest with having Melo and CB on the team to carry more of the load. With reduced minutes and very few if any at C, STAT should be much stronger at the end of the year.

No one is relying on Turiaf! You mention him as if the team is stuck only with him. You can expect the team to sign a FA as soon as the lockout ends. This is a deep FA class in terms of role players. The C spot is a main area of need and will be addressed. We're not in need of a superstar at C. In fact if we could add a Joel Pryz, Aaron Gray or Kwame Brown, it would go a long way to helping fill the hole.

You also forgot to mention Melo who is a flat out stud!!! Why did you leave him out? Perhaps to make your argument seem more convincing. Your entire argument really relies on CB and STAT not being healthy. While there's always that possibility, it's also not a reliable predictor of how good a team will be.

Lastly you seem to have an issue with out young players? Stick this in your pipe and smoke it:

Fields 50%/40% 3pt, Williams 42.6%/40%, Walker 44%/38.6%, Douglas 41%/37.3%

These kids actually shoot very well and are a great complement to the stars we have. We need good 3pt shooting and contrary to popular opinion we do have good 3pt shooting. I'm excited about adding Iman who brings size and defense on the perimeter. I'm optimistic due to the FACTS of what we have on this roster. It's a good roster overall. It's not perfect, but it is good.

Where would you put the Knicks in the East? 1. Mia 2. Chi 3. Bos 4. ? Ahead of the Knicks were Orl and ATL. Do you really think those teams are a lock to be better than NY? I'd say this team is on their level and it's a good chance the Knicks can finish #4.

I am OK and with the program... But until they will show me the goods I am a nonbeliever.
I saw too many paper soldiers and paper teams in NY for a long stretch of time to get tricked again.
If i will like what I see I will happily join you in your euphoria... but not before...

arkrud wrote:I am OK and with the program... But until they will show me the goods I am a nonbeliever.
I saw too many paper soldiers and paper teams in NY for a long stretch of time to get tricked again.
If i will like what I see I will happily join you in your euphoria... but not before...

I never understand what this means. Are you saying you can't evaluate what you think this team SHOULD be before you actually see the games, by which time you're no longer making a prediction, your just stating the obvious. This is not a regular season discussion. It's about what you think of the changes and direction of the team so far. Who knows just how successful the team will actually be?

My contention is that from what i've seen of the team from last year and what I believe will happen with the added talent and more time for the team to develop chemistry, this team should be in the mix for top 4 in the East and title contention.

Against the Bulls, they have a better defense and we have a better offense. I don't see them having such an advantage that we couldn't compete with them. They were clearly the better team last year and it will be interesting to see how we match up with the team we have now.

Against Miami we match up very well. Both of our stars play well against their stars and it's really about how well the supporting cast plays. I can tell you they won't be too eager to see us in the playoffs. Unless they add a really good Center, I suspect we'll a evenly match war.

Against the Magic it's a bit of a problem cuz they have the one spot we are most weak and it's not a good matchup for the Knicks. This will depend on how good a job the Knicks do in filling the C spot.

The Celtics have had the Knicks number, but I get the feeling those days are over. Yea they swept the Knicks, but you get the feeling that it was a little too close for comfort considering our injuries and the lack of chemistry the Knicks had. These games will be wars and evenly matched.

The Knicks aren't clearly better than any of these teams in any way, but I feel they will be evenly matched and in the mix with the top 4 or 5 teams. Basically all of these teams are really close to each other. If the Knicks get to the 2nd round and play well that would be about what i'd expect anything more than that it would seem everything would have to go better than expected. I do believe this is a 2nd rd team with a shot to get to the ECF's.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:I am OK and with the program... But until they will show me the goods I am a nonbeliever.
I saw too many paper soldiers and paper teams in NY for a long stretch of time to get tricked again.
If i will like what I see I will happily join you in your euphoria... but not before...

I never understand what this means. Are you saying you can't evaluate what you think this team SHOULD be before you actually see the games, by which time you're no longer making a prediction, your just stating the obvious. This is not a regular season discussion. It's about what you think of the changes and direction of the team so far. Who knows just how successful the team will actually be?

My contention is that from what i've seen of the team from last year and what I believe will happen with the added talent and more time for the team to develop chemistry, this team should be in the mix for top 4 in the East and title contention.

Against the Bulls, they have a better defense and we have a better offense. I don't see them having such an advantage that we couldn't compete with them. They were clearly the better team last year and it will be interesting to see how we match up with the team we have now.

Against Miami we match up very well. Both of our stars play well against their stars and it's really about how well the supporting cast plays. I can tell you they won't be too eager to see us in the playoffs. Unless they add a really good Center, I suspect we'll a evenly match war.

Against the Magic it's a bit of a problem cuz they have the one spot we are most weak and it's not a good matchup for the Knicks. This will depend on how good a job the Knicks do in filling the C spot.

The Celtics have had the Knicks number, but I get the feeling those days are over. Yea they swept the Knicks, but you get the feeling that it was a little too close for comfort considering our injuries and the lack of chemistry the Knicks had. These games will be wars and evenly matched.

The Knicks aren't clearly better than any of these teams in any way, but I feel they will be evenly matched and in the mix with the top 4 or 5 teams. Basically all of these teams are really close to each other. If the Knicks get to the 2nd round and play well that would be about what i'd expect anything more than that it would seem everything would have to go better than expected. I do believe this is a 2nd rd team with a shot to get to the ECF's.

I agree that your analysis can prove right with only one caveat.
All stars should line up for the Knicks. Everything must go right for us to be "in the mix".
The margin of error as the margin of luck is very thin...
Depth, durability, and experience make team a contender... when team gets stars.
We started from the other end of the equation. Let’s see if gamble works. Sometimes it does.

If you look at any team in the league save maybe the Lakers, you have to have good health or else you could be in trouble. The only thing that IMO could hamper the Knicks is going to be a health issue and that could be said for just about every team that is top heavy. ie. Mia, OKC You can't lose one or more of the top 3 on any of those teams. Heck even the Mavs don't want to lose Dirk or Tyson Chandler for any significant time.

Look at it this way. This team is much better suited to enduring an injury than they were before the trade for Melo and CB. There is a bit of concern about STAT's back, which is bothering me, but until we hear that he can't go or that it isn't gonna heal without surgery, i'm gonna hold off being alarmed.

As for Depth, yea it's not a huge strength, but then again, the guys we do have are still young and developing. Fields is still developing. Williams and Walker have shown growth and should be a bit better. I think they gained from going to the playoffs. Outside of the top 3 it's a mostly young team. If you add Iman, Jorts, Jordan and Andy it's just a young team overall. I'm not mad at that. These guys are cheap and pretty good role players. We still have yet to see what Iman, Jorts, Jordan and Andy can really do on the NBA level, so that is a huge ? If any of these guys steps up a level it's gonna be helpful. Thank goodness we're not relying on these kids to carry the load. It's not like Gallo and Chandler, who had to carry a huge part of the load. CB, STAT and MELO are more than capable of shouldering the bulk of the load.

nixluva wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Just hope whoever gets time at PG, can keep STAT and the rest of the team from playing "4 guys watching Melo".

If memory serves, STAT fell prey at the end of the season to that. As well as Fields.

Yeah a lot of that is just a lack of reliance on the system, due to a lack of familiarity. Melo has years of bad habits he has to overcome and when the pressure is on you just go with what you know. I think he would like the way MDA runs offense once he really gets to know it and trust it. It's about sharing the ball and getting it to the open man and if you're as talented as Melo is you can do a LOT in an offense like this. I believe there will be less standing and watching when Melo and CB really know the plays and have real chemistry with the rest of the guys. Basically this wasn't a TEAM last year after the trade. It was 2 teams with 2 different identities. That has to change and i'm positive that CB and Melo want to get on board with the rest of the team. I think they all realize that they can contend if they're on the same page. IMO STAT and Melo are both ready to sacrifice in order to win a title. STAT has to realize his own BB mortality and i'm sure Melo is tired of being seen as a scorer but not a winner.

"We walked in at halftime and said 'We can't go out this way.' We were pretty ticked off, especially at us not seeming to have any answers scheme-wise. We knew Boston knew everything we were going to do, how we were going to do it, so we needed to do something differently. We just couldn't keep going the way we were going."

"Coach knows offense," one player explained. "It would be nice to set plays, control pace and not jack up shots just because you're open. But that's what Coach does. You could live with it if we played defense. But obviously, we haven't done that much. Good, bad or otherwise, all I can say is that I've never seen anything like this."

I am not that confident that the 'system' is going to fix things. I also don't think it will be that easy to fix the center position.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Just hope whoever gets time at PG, can keep STAT and the rest of the team from playing "4 guys watching Melo".

If memory serves, STAT fell prey at the end of the season to that. As well as Fields.

Yeah a lot of that is just a lack of reliance on the system, due to a lack of familiarity. Melo has years of bad habits he has to overcome and when the pressure is on you just go with what you know. I think he would like the way MDA runs offense once he really gets to know it and trust it. It's about sharing the ball and getting it to the open man and if you're as talented as Melo is you can do a LOT in an offense like this. I believe there will be less standing and watching when Melo and CB really know the plays and have real chemistry with the rest of the guys. Basically this wasn't a TEAM last year after the trade. It was 2 teams with 2 different identities. That has to change and i'm positive that CB and Melo want to get on board with the rest of the team. I think they all realize that they can contend if they're on the same page. IMO STAT and Melo are both ready to sacrifice in order to win a title. STAT has to realize his own BB mortality and i'm sure Melo is tired of being seen as a scorer but not a winner.

These were the comments being made by players about the 'system' during the Celtics series:

"We walked in at halftime and said 'We can't go out this way.' We were pretty ticked off, especially at us not seeming to have any answers scheme-wise. We knew Boston knew everything we were going to do, how we were going to do it, so we needed to do something differently. We just couldn't keep going the way we were going."

"Coach knows offense," one player explained. "It would be nice to set plays, control pace and not jack up shots just because you're open. But that's what Coach does. You could live with it if we played defense. But obviously, we haven't done that much. Good, bad or otherwise, all I can say is that I've never seen anything like this."

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=smith_stephen&id=6425665

I am not that confident that the 'system' is going to fix things. I also don't think it will be that easy to fix the center position.

Another key point is that there ARE SET PLAYS!!! The idea isn't to just come down and jack up shots. In fact that statement tells me that whoever said this didn't understand a damn thing about the offense. I would also suggest that you go and get the SSOL Playbook as I have and see just how much there is to the system. For YEARS his offense has been one of the most efficient and prolific offenses in BB. Even Popovich decided to use it as his team has fallen off. One of the benefits of the offense is that it allows a less talented team to be able to play at a higher level than it probably should.

These nameless players that criticized the coach weren't playing the right way period, but then this team was missing a lead PG and brain that actually could run the offense, so how can you bash it if the team isn't even running the offense properly due to injury and lack of time to learn? Here you and those players can chomp on this. With no Center and no star SG or PF, MDA coached his team to a WCF!!! That's right he basically had a small team in the toughest conference in BB and managed to best every team except one. Tell me that was an easy accomplishment or empty like some team winning in the weaker East back then.