[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

so..do you really need 3 superstars to win a championship
Author Thread
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/13/2011  7:20 AM
jazz74 wrote:look, lets not forget that this heat team was only two wins away from winning it all. they will find a way to get the pieces they need. say what you want about riley, he is a shrewd and resourceful businessman and will find a way to get better with his limited hand. with that said, heat did have a royal carpet to the finals playing a overachieving but not talented sixers team, aging celtics team, and an offensive deprived bulls team. dallas just had balance and carlisle is a genius making adjustments throughout. now, looking at this, i think the knicks SHOULD feel hope. they have melo, one of the top three offensive players in the league and one of the best fourth quarter finishers. that is something that lebron cant claim yet. maybe wade but he didnt the last two games. that seems to be the key so we just have to get established "role" players. however, deron williams or chris paul would fit nicely too.

Miami has three great players and the rest are players who don't even belong in the NBA. And they still came within 2 games of winning a championship! It's going to be a tough summer for them but their franchise is in great shape.
AUTOADVERT
knickstorrents
Posts: 21121
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2010
Member: #3050
Hong Kong
6/13/2011  7:40 AM
You guys read this article?

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/30227/carlisle-pushed-all-of-the-right-buttons

Evidently Carlisle relied heavily on stats to determine optimal lineups...

Here's some key snippets:

"It’s a victory for the data-driven approach that Dallas' coaching staff has taken, starting with Carlisle -- unquestionably the most cerebral and stat-friendly of the league’s 30 head coaches -- and down to director of basketball analytics Roland Beech, the 82games.com founder who joined the Mavs on the bench last season and earned the unofficial title of “first stat geek with a championship ring” with such access to the coaching staff.

Second, Carlisle’s flexibility in mixing and matching lineups gives him a leg up. NBA coaches are amazingly reluctant to change lineups, even when what they’re doing clearly isn’t working. For example, it took Miami five games to yank Mike Bibby from the starting lineup, and they only did so when facing elimination. They are not unique in this regard. (The NBA playoffs: Where finally doing what you should have done three games ago happens).

And let me reiterate that the geeks played a big role. The Mavericks knew which lineups and pairings worked for them and optimized their rotations accordingly. But it wasn’t just about personnel usage in the NBA Finals -- it was play calls, game planning and countless in-season adjustments that built to this moment.

Roland was a key part to all his,” Cuban said. “I give a lot of credit to Coach Carlisle for putting Roland on the bench and interfacing with him, and making sure we understood exactly what was going on. Knowing what lineups work, what the issues were in terms of play calls and training.”

Rose is not the answer.
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
6/13/2011  8:18 AM
Does anyone not think Spoelstra is toast?

I wonder if Riley had been the coach - and whether the outcome would have been very different.

earthmansurfer
Posts: 24005
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2005
Member: #858
Germany
6/13/2011  8:41 AM
jazz74 wrote:look, lets not forget that this heat team was only two wins away from winning it all. they will find a way to get the pieces they need. say what you want about riley, he is a shrewd and resourceful businessman and will find a way to get better with his limited hand. with that said, heat did have a royal carpet to the finals playing a overachieving but not talented sixers team, aging celtics team, and an offensive deprived bulls team. dallas just had balance and carlisle is a genius making adjustments throughout. now, looking at this, i think the knicks SHOULD feel hope. they have melo, one of the top three offensive players in the league and one of the best fourth quarter finishers. that is something that lebron cant claim yet. maybe wade but he didnt the last two games. that seems to be the key so we just have to get established "role" players. however, deron williams or chris paul would fit nicely too.

I agree that Miami had an easy path to the finals. More than likely their competition next year will be much better (including us).

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
6/13/2011  9:05 AM
franco12 wrote:Does anyone not think Spoelstra is toast?

I wonder if Riley had been the coach - and whether the outcome would have been very different.

No I don't think he's toast..actually they have nothing to be ashamed of....Dallas beat arguable the 3 best players on the planet..Kobe, wade and bron...they beat a flaming hot memphis team when zach was playing like the best pf in the nba (better then dirk) they have a slew of savy veterens who absolutely never seem to get rattle.

I thought about who dallas had to play to even get to the finals, and who miami had to play. The bulls had no real perimeter players like a kidd or terry, boston had a hobble rondo (there most important piece) and phil was never a threat.

Remember the end of game 1 of the knicks/boston series...toney douglas had a great oppertunity to step up but he stops the flow of the game to look for melo who was double team 30 ft from the basket..he didnt have balls to take the shot despite banging in a big 3 the previous posession..game 5 of the finals similar situation with terry...couldn't get the ball to dirk and drilled a monster 3 right in james grill...

ES
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
6/13/2011  9:07 AM
It doesn't hurt to have three superstars but you better make sure they compliment each other. I personally think the Knicks can get a third superstar and make it work if the third superstar is a PG who makes everyone better. Jason Kidd was huge and made sure that the ball reached the right place at the right time. You could actually see what made the Heat team so weak, they lacked the right direction due to the lack of a play making PG. With out a play making PG a lot of talent can get wasted, and with a play making PG talent can be elevated.
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
6/13/2011  9:13 AM
My bad..dallas actually played durant which means the beat 4 of the best players on the planet
ES
Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
6/13/2011  9:20 AM
Trade Wade and they win if the right parts come back.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/13/2011  9:29 AM
Nalod wrote:Trade Wade and they win if the right parts come back.

If things don't work out next season for them, I'm thinking they'll try to trade Lebron for Dwight Howard.
Moonangie
Posts: 24765
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 7/9/2009
Member: #2788

6/13/2011  11:13 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:

Great find.

knickstorrents
Posts: 21121
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2010
Member: #3050
Hong Kong
6/13/2011  11:13 AM
If I were the heat I'd much rather keep wade than Lebron... even though lebron is the better athlete, Wade is a closer... and closers are few and far between.
You could probably trade Lebron for Howard and extra assets
Rose is not the answer.
Moonangie
Posts: 24765
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 7/9/2009
Member: #2788

6/13/2011  11:24 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

Butler has been injured most of the season.

Brewer was used in the Lakers series. I think Haywood was a bit too.

This is a case of Carlisle utilizing his bench and not having "his guys" and telling anyone he doesn't know to prove themselves to him. Carlisle literally used everyone from Brian cardinal to DeShawn Stevenson in the playoffs. If you ever seen Mike go past 8 players in the playoffs you can come kick me in the nuts. Carlisle knows how to play matchups and adjust accordingly. He knows how to utilize the weapons he has. He knows when to call a timely time out and calm the team down. Everything he has done in his career is great but this playoff series defined him as a coach. Nearly every move he made worked. He pushed the right buttons for sure. Mike D'Antoni is not that type of creative, open-minded coach. Not even close.

Word. Coaching the same team, not a snowball's chance in he'll that MDA would have delivered a chip. He is devoted to his system to the point of blindness to ad hoc coaching adjustments. That a recipe for failure in the playoffs.

Juice
Posts: 21742
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2009
Member: #2968

6/13/2011  11:32 AM
Olbrannon wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Mavs won because they had better OFFENSE!!! The Mavs play great D, but in the end the Heat couldn't keep up scoring wise. The Heat can't play any better defense, it was GREAT Mavs offense that won this title. So I don't wanna hear that you can't win with a good defense and a great offense. You don't have to have the #1 defense to win a championship. This isn't to say that defense isn't important, we all know it is, so don't go there. I'm just saying that you want a team that is capable of getting it done in more than one way. The Heat have never been a very good offensive team. They tended to beat teams with their defense getting steals and scoring easy buckets on the break. With the Mavs they run such good offense, that there weren't a lot of those easy fastbreak buckets that the Heat usually live off of.

The Mavs spread the floor and passed so well that it stretched the limits of the Heats great defensive quickness. The Heat didn't have an answer for the Mavs best player defensively, cuz the Mavs had enough real threats on the floor to give him room to work against single coverage or a late help defender. The Heat offense stinks. If not for the great individual talents of Lebron and Wade their offense wouldn't be that effective. The Mavs were deeper and had more answers for the Heat defense than any team they faced in the East.

Sorry I disagree. they won because of defense. How many times did the Mav's go on a tear in which they came from behind and while shutting the other team down? At least 4 times. They win because Dirk and the Jet would not be denied. Because Berea made timely jaunts to the hoop and some big 3's

It was a team thing and it would not have happened if the Mav's had not shut down the other team when they were behind rand them down and then beat them. The Mav's played GREAT defense.

The stats clearly backup that Dallas' defense had a stronger impact on them winning this series than offense. I'm trying to hold back from posting numbers and breaking this down because I don't want to appear like I'm on some blast mojo but seriously there is no other argument here

Juice
Posts: 21742
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2009
Member: #2968

6/13/2011  11:34 AM
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
6/13/2011  11:40 AM

Funny, Carlisle, a guy tossed from Indy and Detroit for not being able to take it to the next level ultimately does and wins!

Anyone really think he was a great coach before this run? Anyone think he was an upgrade over Johnson?

This is a Joe Torre kind of story. Some coaches LEARN!

MDA has very good skills.

Beating him up is kind of silly transposing him in a championship game.

martin
Posts: 76215
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
6/13/2011  11:41 AM
Juice wrote:
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

I mean, come on now. Can you add a bit of reality and thought into your posts or u just gonna blaze some bland rhetoric?

MDA tried to start Moz and played JJ too much and relied on Turiaf. They aint much better than Mahinmi or The Custodian.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that those guys were getting regular minutes or playing time cause Chandler was in foul trouble or Haywood was hurt or Dirk was in foul trouble.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Juice
Posts: 21742
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2009
Member: #2968

6/13/2011  11:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/13/2011  12:06 PM
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

I mean, come on now. Can you add a bit of reality and thought into your posts or u just gonna blaze some bland rhetoric?

MDA tried to start Moz and played JJ too much and relied on Turiaf. They aint much better than Mahinmi or The Custodian.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that those guys were getting regular minutes or playing time cause Chandler was in foul trouble or Haywood was hurt or Dirk was in foul trouble.


I know and Carlisle came to the conclusion GOING SMALL BALL LIES

I'd also like to add he benched Peja for the duration of the series after Game 2 I believe. He didn't say okay I have a couple bigs hurt and/or in foul trouble let me re-insert 6'10" Peja who can shoot from distance and play him.

He simply did things most coaches wouldn't have the guts to do IN THE FINALS not first couple games of Pre-Season and/or Regular season

martin
Posts: 76215
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
6/13/2011  12:04 PM
Juice wrote:
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

I mean, come on now. Can you add a bit of reality and thought into your posts or u just gonna blaze some bland rhetoric?

MDA tried to start Moz and played JJ too much and relied on Turiaf. They aint much better than Mahinmi or The Custodian.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that those guys were getting regular minutes or playing time cause Chandler was in foul trouble or Haywood was hurt or Dirk was in foul trouble.


I know and Carlisle came to the conclusion GOING SMALL BALL LIES

Dude, cut the crap. If you want to make a different thread about what Carlisle is doing, have at it. Posting about what MDA did and didn't do in every thread without making it relevant doesn't bring anything to this site.

Enough.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34057
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

6/13/2011  12:07 PM
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

I mean, come on now. Can you add a bit of reality and thought into your posts or u just gonna blaze some bland rhetoric?

MDA tried to start Moz and played JJ too much and relied on Turiaf. They aint much better than Mahinmi or The Custodian.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that those guys were getting regular minutes or playing time cause Chandler was in foul trouble or Haywood was hurt or Dirk was in foul trouble.


I know and Carlisle came to the conclusion GOING SMALL BALL LIES

Dude, cut the crap. If you want to make a different thread about what Carlisle is doing, have at it. Posting about what MDA did and didn't do in every thread without making it relevant doesn't bring anything to this site.

Enough.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Juice
Posts: 21742
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2009
Member: #2968

6/13/2011  12:07 PM
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:
misterearl wrote:Corey Brewer was waiting in the wings, just in case. Caron Butler never suited up. Brendan Hawywood was chillin'.

Quality Depth

You did recognize Carlisle using Mahinmi and The Custodian right? 2 players D'AnToni probably never would realize they were real human beings

I mean, come on now. Can you add a bit of reality and thought into your posts or u just gonna blaze some bland rhetoric?

MDA tried to start Moz and played JJ too much and relied on Turiaf. They aint much better than Mahinmi or The Custodian.

And let's not fool ourselves into thinking that those guys were getting regular minutes or playing time cause Chandler was in foul trouble or Haywood was hurt or Dirk was in foul trouble.


I know and Carlisle came to the conclusion GOING SMALL BALL LIES

Dude, cut the crap. If you want to make a different thread about what Carlisle is doing, have at it. Posting about what MDA did and didn't do in every thread without making it relevant doesn't bring anything to this site.

Enough.


I was in edit mode and added MOST COACHES as this wasn't exclusive to ours but he stands out in many instances during these playoffs

so..do you really need 3 superstars to win a championship

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy