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Draft Update - 6/8/2011
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Nalod
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6/9/2011  4:55 PM
Im thinking the system is not going anywhere if the system sells tickets.

You don't play the system, the system plays you!
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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6/9/2011  5:38 PM
martin wrote:
jimimou wrote:
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:After some thought i'd like to list my preferences as:

1. Selby (highest upside)
2. Fredette (I think he's perfect for this system)
3. Brooks (shifty SG we lack)
4. Morris (big PG and I love big points)
5. Klay Thompson
6. Vucevic
7. Faried

We've got to get another pick. This draft has some good role players in it.

i have to tell you, a see a lot of places that have Knicks selecting Fredette and giving reason that he's perfect for system.

But all of us know that there is a good chance the system may not be around for more than a year. So IMHO it's about the worst possible reason to draft that kid.

Gotta think long term.

i agree with you - the system will probably not be around for too much longer. besides, this system does not work for winning championships. all throughout the playoffs, all you hear guys, coaches, analysts, etc. saying is that defense wins championships, not offense. anyione who thinks otherwise, either doesnt watch or doesnt know. bottom line - offense alone will not win you a championship. and the knicks only have offense at this point.

on the other hand, if Jimmer can prove he can run a team and be a pest on defense with ball pressure like Nate should have been, no reason NOT to select him.


This is what I see in Jimmer: he isn't too small for the PG spot, he's basically about the same size as Deron Williams and Steph Curry. Maybe an inch shorter. Jimmer is a strong player physically with a rugged build and his game isn't really dependent upon pure athletic ability. Jimmer has a great midrange game to go along with his deep shooting and also has great ball handling skills to get inside a defense. Jimmer isn't slow as some have tried to make him sound. He's right in the mix with the other PG's except not as high a jumper. 


Name		Hght w/o Shoes	Hght w/shoes	Weight	Wingspan	Reach		No Stp Vert	Max Vert  Bench	Agility	   Sprint		
Isaiah Thomas	5' 8.75"	5' 10.25" 	186	6' 1.75"	7' 7.5"		31.5		40.0	  13	10.49	   3.14	
Kemba Walker	5' 11.5" 	6' 1"	 	184	6' 3.5"		7' 7.5"		32.0		39.5	  7	10.87	   3.16	
Norris Cole	6' 0.25" 	6' 1.75" 	174	6' 2.25"	7' 11.5"	29.5		38.5	  11	10.07	   3.22	
James Fredette	6' 0.75" 	6' 2.5"		196	6' 4.5"		8' 0.5"		28.0		33.0	  14	10.42	   3.21	
Shelvin Mack	6' 1"	 	6' 2.5"		209	6' 7.5"		8' 0.5"		32.0		39.0	  17	11.23	   3.18	
Andrew Goudelock6' 1.25" 	6' 2.75" 	198	6' 4.25"	8' 0.5"		32.5		37.0	  4	10.33	   3.10	
Brandon Knight	6' 1.5"		6' 3.25"	177	6' 6.75"	8' 2.5"		29.0		37.5	  10	10.74	   3.07	
Charles Jenkins	6' 1.5"		6' 3.25" 	216	6' 7.5"		8' 0.5"		29.5		34.0	  16	11.68	   3.18	
Nolan Smith	6' 1.5"		6' 3.5"		188	6' 5.5"		8' 3"		28.5		34.0	  9	11.05	   3.17	
Josh Selby	6' 1.75" 	6' 3"		195	6' 5.25"	8' 2"		29.5		42.0	  5	11.13	   3.20

DX said this about his passing:

- Passing: Clips of Fredette attempting long pull-up threes have given him the reputation as a selfish gunner, but this is hardly the case. Yes, BYU's offense started and finished with Fredette, but he always seemed to be a willing passer, able to hit the open man if the defense starts to focus too much on him. In addition, Fredette is a strong enough ball handler with either hand to get himself to spots on the court where he is a threat, forcing help. When that help comes, Jimmer is able to get the ball to the open man.

I will say this, if we finally add a PG that can actually run the offense as well as being a great scorer, there's no way in the world that Mike losses his job.
Paladin55
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6/9/2011  7:27 PM
martin wrote:
jimimou wrote:
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:After some thought i'd like to list my preferences as:

1. Selby (highest upside)
2. Fredette (I think he's perfect for this system)
3. Brooks (shifty SG we lack)
4. Morris (big PG and I love big points)
5. Klay Thompson
6. Vucevic
7. Faried

We've got to get another pick. This draft has some good role players in it.

i have to tell you, a see a lot of places that have Knicks selecting Fredette and giving reason that he's perfect for system.

But all of us know that there is a good chance the system may not be around for more than a year. So IMHO it's about the worst possible reason to draft that kid.

Gotta think long term.

i agree with you - the system will probably not be around for too much longer. besides, this system does not work for winning championships. all throughout the playoffs, all you hear guys, coaches, analysts, etc. saying is that defense wins championships, not offense. anyione who thinks otherwise, either doesnt watch or doesnt know. bottom line - offense alone will not win you a championship. and the knicks only have offense at this point.

on the other hand, if Jimmer can prove he can run a team and be a pest on defense with ball pressure like Nate should have been, no reason NOT to select him.


If you put stock in Givony, he commented about Fredette in the DX podcast that was posted on UK by saying:


"can (the team which might take him) live with his shortcomings on the defensive end"

"people who think there are not shortcomings in his defensive game are out of their mind"

"if you watched him over the year there is no way that anyone in their right mind can say he is anything more than an awful defender"

I'd feel better about taking him if we had a good defensive team, with him being the only weak link. His defensive issues have to be a red light, though, for a team like the Knicks, who have two less than stellar defensive players at the 3 & 4, and nobody in the middle who can put fear into the hearts of those who drive to our basket.

I think if we take a PG he has to be someone who can stay in front of most PGs.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
nixluva
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6/9/2011  8:04 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
martin wrote:
jimimou wrote:
martin wrote:
nixluva wrote:After some thought i'd like to list my preferences as:

1. Selby (highest upside)
2. Fredette (I think he's perfect for this system)
3. Brooks (shifty SG we lack)
4. Morris (big PG and I love big points)
5. Klay Thompson
6. Vucevic
7. Faried

We've got to get another pick. This draft has some good role players in it.

i have to tell you, a see a lot of places that have Knicks selecting Fredette and giving reason that he's perfect for system.

But all of us know that there is a good chance the system may not be around for more than a year. So IMHO it's about the worst possible reason to draft that kid.

Gotta think long term.

i agree with you - the system will probably not be around for too much longer. besides, this system does not work for winning championships. all throughout the playoffs, all you hear guys, coaches, analysts, etc. saying is that defense wins championships, not offense. anyione who thinks otherwise, either doesnt watch or doesnt know. bottom line - offense alone will not win you a championship. and the knicks only have offense at this point.

on the other hand, if Jimmer can prove he can run a team and be a pest on defense with ball pressure like Nate should have been, no reason NOT to select him.


If you put stock in Givony, he commented about Fredette in the DX podcast that was posted on UK by saying:


"can (the team which might take him) live with his shortcomings on the defensive end"

"people who think there are not shortcomings in his defensive game are out of their mind"

"if you watched him over the year there is no way that anyone in their right mind can say he is anything more than an awful defender"

I'd feel better about taking him if we had a good defensive team, with him being the only weak link. His defensive issues have to be a red light, though, for a team like the Knicks, who have two less than stellar defensive players at the 3 & 4, and nobody in the middle who can put fear into the hearts of those who drive to our basket.

I think if we take a PG he has to be someone who can stay in front of most PGs.


This is a serious issue. I don't know if it's enough to keep them from taking him. Steph Curry isn't exactly striking fear in opposing PG's and to be honest neither was D. Rose. Most PG's aren't that great on D and that's a statistical fact. In all the NBA there aren't many top defensive players at the PG position. The main issue with Jimmer seems to be effort and commitment to D. I don't think he can't defend or lacks enough physical ability to defend. Even if he does work hard on D, it's still gonna take a team effort to stop the better PG's in the league. You can't worry about that so much that you overlook all the other things a player does. It is a concern, i'm not saying that I wouldn't also worry if he can defend. I think that if he is picked by the Knicks that they probably are convinced that he can defend on this level.

There are other options tho that would not carry the same fear, so this draft has big potential for the Knicks. If they want a defensive beast then they would take Shumpert and just forget about his lack of offense.
knickstorrents
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6/9/2011  9:51 PM
Why would we draft an undersized shooting guard (fredette) and not draft a real shooting guard instead who can guard his man (Brooks/Shumpert)?

Shumpert on D: "A tenacious defensive player that works very hard to shut his man down"

Brooks on D: " Brooks has the potential to be an effective defender with more focus and NBA coaching..."

I'm not sold on using our pick on Fredette. Right now, he strikes he me as an energy, scoring off the bench guy. A Jason Terry type. We have too many more basic needs to draft for that kind of player.

Rose is not the answer.
MSG3
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6/9/2011  10:15 PM
Fredette won't be there for us so it'll be moot.

What does everyone think about Darius Morris? Seems like a good fit. Biyambo sounds intriguing but we need someone who can help soon.
CrushAlot
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6/9/2011  10:34 PM
MSG3 wrote:Fredette won't be there for us so it'll be moot.

What does everyone think about Darius Morris? Seems like a good fit. Biyambo sounds intriguing but we need someone who can help soon.

I just hope the Knicks don't trade Fields or Douglas to move up to get Fredette. I love Biyombo but I have read that he could go as higha as 5. I am hoping the Knicks get Faried at 17 and get a second round pick to get a guy that falls.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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6/9/2011  11:19 PM
Apparently no one actually looked at the information I posted regarding Jimmer. Just look at him in comparison to the other PG's in the draft and you can see that he's not out of the mix physically. He's just as big, strong, fast, agile as many of the other guys. If JJ Barea can score in the NBA why in the heck would Fredette not be able to? There were a lot of people who liked the idea of drafting Steph Curry and now people are down on Fredette as if he's some bum in comparison!!! They measure out almost the same and there were questions about Steph's ability to run the point too.
GustavBahler
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6/9/2011  11:29 PM
nixluva wrote:Apparently no one actually looked at the information I posted regarding Jimmer. Just look at him in comparison to the other PG's in the draft and you can see that he's not out of the mix physically. He's just as big, strong, fast, agile as many of the other guys. If JJ Barea can score in the NBA why in the heck would Fredette not be able to? There were a lot of people who liked the idea of drafting Steph Curry and now people are down on Fredette as if he's some bum in comparison!!! They measure out almost the same and there were questions about Steph's ability to run the point too.

Cole is the guy I want to draft on that list. Looks like he would make a good leader.
nixluva
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6/10/2011  12:44 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:Apparently no one actually looked at the information I posted regarding Jimmer. Just look at him in comparison to the other PG's in the draft and you can see that he's not out of the mix physically. He's just as big, strong, fast, agile as many of the other guys. If JJ Barea can score in the NBA why in the heck would Fredette not be able to? There were a lot of people who liked the idea of drafting Steph Curry and now people are down on Fredette as if he's some bum in comparison!!! They measure out almost the same and there were questions about Steph's ability to run the point too.

Cole is the guy I want to draft on that list. Looks like he would make a good leader.


Cole sounded confident after his workout with the Knicks. I like this draft cuz there are guys like Cole all thru the draft who should be solid NBA players. The thing is that if you look at my earlier post you can compare Cole and Fredette and they are very similar in physical ability. If the Knicks buy a 2nd rd pick that could allow us to add a kid like Cole which would be a high quality pick up.
GustavBahler
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6/10/2011  9:05 AM
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
nixluva wrote:Apparently no one actually looked at the information I posted regarding Jimmer. Just look at him in comparison to the other PG's in the draft and you can see that he's not out of the mix physically. He's just as big, strong, fast, agile as many of the other guys. If JJ Barea can score in the NBA why in the heck would Fredette not be able to? There were a lot of people who liked the idea of drafting Steph Curry and now people are down on Fredette as if he's some bum in comparison!!! They measure out almost the same and there were questions about Steph's ability to run the point too.

Cole is the guy I want to draft on that list. Looks like he would make a good leader.


Cole sounded confident after his workout with the Knicks. I like this draft cuz there are guys like Cole all thru the draft who should be solid NBA players. The thing is that if you look at my earlier post you can compare Cole and Fredette and they are very similar in physical ability. If the Knicks buy a 2nd rd pick that could allow us to add a kid like Cole which would be a high quality pick up.

What I like about Cole is how his game and his numbers have gotten better every year and he keeps adding things to his repertoire. Looking at the scouting report, his numbers jumped way up without any real increase in playing time. I don't have a problem with Fredette getting drafted at 17, but I'd prefer it if we traded down a little and got Cole (he's probably on the bubble of the first and secound round) or pick him at 17 instead of trading up for Fredette. I don't want to trade up unless its for a big.
MaTT4281
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6/10/2011  12:01 PM
I keep forgetting that Donnie is still in charge of this draft. It's reassuring knowing he'll at least be doing his due diligence in acquiring additional picks.
rp
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6/10/2011  12:34 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:I keep forgetting that Donnie is still in charge of this draft. It's reassuring knowing he'll at least be doing his due diligence in acquiring additional picks.

As an advisor nothing more...

"Failure is only postponed success as long as courage coaches ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory" -Herbert Kaufman
Andrew
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6/10/2011  12:42 PM
rp wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:I keep forgetting that Donnie is still in charge of this draft. It's reassuring knowing he'll at least be doing his due diligence in acquiring additional picks.

As an advisor nothing more...

I think Donnie is running the draft this year.

PURE KNICKS LOVE
rp
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6/10/2011  12:54 PM
Andrew wrote:
rp wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:I keep forgetting that Donnie is still in charge of this draft. It's reassuring knowing he'll at least be doing his due diligence in acquiring additional picks.

As an advisor nothing more...

I think Donnie is running the draft this year.

I really hope you are right but we will have to see.

"Failure is only postponed success as long as courage coaches ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory" -Herbert Kaufman
MaTT4281
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6/10/2011  2:28 PM
rp wrote:
Andrew wrote:
rp wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:I keep forgetting that Donnie is still in charge of this draft. It's reassuring knowing he'll at least be doing his due diligence in acquiring additional picks.

As an advisor nothing more...

I think Donnie is running the draft this year.

I really hope you are right but we will have to see.

We'll never really know what's going on behind the scenes, but Donnie's contract still runs through June 30.
According to Chad Ford, Donnie's still the man come draft night.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/06/ford-walsh-still-calling-shots-for-knicks-2011-draft/

Via Twitter:

@chadfordinsider Chad Ford
From multiple sources, Donnie Walsh & staff are still calling the shots for the Knicks when it comes to the 2011 NBA Draft
Sangfroid
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6/10/2011  2:35 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
rp wrote:
Andrew wrote:
rp wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:I keep forgetting that Donnie is still in charge of this draft. It's reassuring knowing he'll at least be doing his due diligence in acquiring additional picks.

As an advisor nothing more...

I think Donnie is running the draft this year.

I really hope you are right but we will have to see.

We'll never really know what's going on behind the scenes, but Donnie's contract still runs through June 30.
According to Chad Ford, Donnie's still the man come draft night.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/06/ford-walsh-still-calling-shots-for-knicks-2011-draft/

Via Twitter:

@chadfordinsider Chad Ford
From multiple sources, Donnie Walsh & staff are still calling the shots for the Knicks when it comes to the 2011 NBA Draft

The perfect scapegoat if the draft does not fufill and a mere footnote ifit turns out well.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Caseloads
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6/10/2011  3:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/10/2011  3:43 PM
can someone post the knicks update? from chad ford today's insider - thanks
nixluva
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6/10/2011  8:24 PM
Hey one guy i've had my eye on and was curious to see how he did in workouts is Iman Shumpert. I was excited to read that he had a very good workout with the Knicks:
Shumpert and Jenkins, who squared off yesterday, should be there. Shumpert's best attribute, at 6-6, is as a defender but he is showing in workouts he can shoot the 3-pointer -- critical in D'Antoni's sysem. Shumpert blazed yesterday, making 17 of 25 during the 3-point shooting drill.
"Just wanted to show I could fit into a team and play for the city, that I could play alongside guys like Melo and Ama're [Stoudemire]," said Shumpert, whose agent, Happy Walters, is also Stoudemire's agent. "I proved I can handle the ball, shoot the ball and be that knockdown guy in the corner. I shot well. I impressed everybody."

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/singleton_lights_knick_eyes_P4vr5V44Ve8LYaT5zUnIVM#ixzz1OvD3pTkq

This kid is a FREAK athlete and IMO a guy that could be very versatile guard in this league. He has great size and athletic ability and if he showed that he can also shoot the 3 then that seals it for me. He's a lockdown defender and can cover multiple positions 1-3. He's got a nearly 7' wingspan at 6-5.5 and he's ripped like a football player, but quick and agile. He has a 42" vert and is just the flatout best athlete in the draft. You want a DEFENSIVE PG? This is your guy!

The same can't be said for his play on the defensive end, where he has absolutely flourished this season. Combining excellent length and lateral quickness with good intensity, Shumpert is simply exceptional one-on-one, rebounds the ball at an outrageous rate for a guard, and leads our database in steals by a pretty considerable margin. Extremely active with his hands and feet, Shumpert does a great job maintaining his balance and denying penetration and has the physical tools to defend multiple positions in the NBA. He's not a great playmaker, but I wouldn't hold that against him. He's not terrible either and can learn and improve with some work.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Iman-Shumpert-5156/#ixzz1OvFK93if
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