martin wrote:

Papabear wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:That type of logic is incredibly short sighted. It's called planning. You don't sign a player who wont contribute for 2 years (or, quite frankly, who may never play again) who would also block you from maximizing your resources.

No one is saying only sign one year deals infinity, I don't know where you would even fathom that type of conclusion, but when a CP3 gift-horse is looking at you in the face, you do hedge and plan.

Oden hasn't had fluke injuries; he has had both knees deteriorate and one knee shattered. And it's not like he just missed a bunch of games 1 year and played solidly for 3 others. Dude has never been able to stay on court for a full year over a 4 year time span. Completely missing 2, 75% of 3rd and 25% of other.

You buy low and sell high. Your logic is to try to acquire him once he has proven he is healthy. Once he proves he healthy we wont have the cap space to offer him.

Chris Paul isnt coming here without a trade. Do you think new Orleans is stupid? They will trade him like Denver traded Melo. I don't understand why people think players will take less to play in NY when it has been proven false time and time again. If we cant offer Chris Paul max money he isn't coming.

Blake Griffin shattered his knee cap too as a rookie. He also suffered a season ending knee injury as a freshmen in college. Thing is he is fine now. Freak injuries happen. The microfracture will limit Oden but we dont need him to carry our team. We just need him to defend rebound and block shots. Anything else is gravy.

my logic is about planning and your lack thereof.

In 2012 Knicks will have max offer ability.

Papabear Says

So what do we do next season?? Just sit around and pray for 2012 and Maybe CP will come here?? With CP that still don't make us as good as the heat.

what you definitely don't do is sign a player who won't play next year to a 3 year contract.

Knicks will mostly likely only have MLE, LLE, #17 pick, Dleague pickups.

My guess is that the Knicks target big men and a shooter (while trying to keep Anthony Carter and Derrick Brown, dropping JJ): Aaron Gray, Reggie Evans, Jason Collins, Anthony Parker, Jeff Foster, Kapono.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

Papabear wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:That type of logic is incredibly short sighted. It's called planning. You don't sign a player who wont contribute for 2 years (or, quite frankly, who may never play again) who would also block you from maximizing your resources.

No one is saying only sign one year deals infinity, I don't know where you would even fathom that type of conclusion, but when a CP3 gift-horse is looking at you in the face, you do hedge and plan.

Oden hasn't had fluke injuries; he has had both knees deteriorate and one knee shattered. And it's not like he just missed a bunch of games 1 year and played solidly for 3 others. Dude has never been able to stay on court for a full year over a 4 year time span. Completely missing 2, 75% of 3rd and 25% of other.

You buy low and sell high. Your logic is to try to acquire him once he has proven he is healthy. Once he proves he healthy we wont have the cap space to offer him.

Chris Paul isnt coming here without a trade. Do you think new Orleans is stupid? They will trade him like Denver traded Melo. I don't understand why people think players will take less to play in NY when it has been proven false time and time again. If we cant offer Chris Paul max money he isn't coming.

Blake Griffin shattered his knee cap too as a rookie. He also suffered a season ending knee injury as a freshmen in college. Thing is he is fine now. Freak injuries happen. The microfracture will limit Oden but we dont need him to carry our team. We just need him to defend rebound and block shots. Anything else is gravy.

my logic is about planning and your lack thereof.

In 2012 Knicks will have max offer ability.

Papabear Says

So what do we do next season?? Just sit around and pray for 2012 and Maybe CP will come here?? With CP that still don't make us as good as the heat.

what you definitely don't do is sign a player who won't play next year to a 3 year contract.

Knicks will mostly likely only have MLE, LLE, #17 pick, Dleague pickups.

My guess is that the Knicks target big men and a shooter (while trying to keep Anthony Carter and Derrick Brown, dropping JJ): Aaron Gray, Reggie Evans, Jason Collins, Anthony Parker, Jeff Foster, Kapono.

The only guys from your list that I see playing for D'Antoni are Parker and Kapono. The other guys make sense but unless Walsh pushes the issue in my opinion. Also, I like the list and hope that is what the Knicks do.

Crush, stop using the excuse that you only see certain guys who are playing for MDA; it's old and broken and not very forward thinking, plus it's flat out wrong (for instance, Reggie Evans and Turiaf are the same player except 1 rebounds and the other blocks shots).

MDA has 1 more year on his contract; Donnie building a championship team more than a team that only you think would play for MDA.

Donnie has brought in a ton of guys who you would not think would fit into your description of what MDA is looking for and/or MDA has played them: AR, Turiaf, TD, Fields, Moz, JJ, Derrik Brown, Shawne Williams.

CrushAlot wrote:I love that Fields got to play but I also think there was no one else. I think to give the coach the benefit of the doubt in regards to playing defensive players with size and limited offensive ability is naive.

This is such a tired argument. TD did play in his 1st year and like many rookies he had ups and downs and thus his minutes weren't consistent. As for guys that are defensive players not getting minutes what the heck was Jared and Turiaf exactly? Moz and Shelden weren't exactly offensive juggernauts either. I wouldn't say that Fields most important contribution was offense. He was kind of our garbage man/glue guy and his offense was a plus.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I love that Fields got to play but I also think there was no one else. I think to give the coach the benefit of the doubt in regards to playing defensive players with size and limited offensive ability is naive.

This is such a tired argument. TD did play in his 1st year and like many rookies he had ups and downs and thus his minutes weren't consistent. As for guys that are defensive players not getting minutes what the heck was Jared and Turiaf exactly? Moz and Shelden weren't exactly offensive juggernauts either. I wouldn't say that Fields most important contribution was offense. He was kind of our garbage man/glue guy and his offense was a plus.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:How often does something have to happen before it is not just expected? The guys that you listed include some of the guys that D'Antoni wouldn't play. AR never had a chance. It was apparent he was in the dog house during the Milan game. Douglas did not get to play any consistent minutes his rookie year until Walsh traveled with the team to Texas that March. That was on a 29 win team starting Duhon at the point. Moz had a long stretch where he couldn't get into games and talked about how frustrated he was. Moz eventually got minutes again because of injuries and blew up in that game, however I don't think there was any clear plan to get him back on the court. Derrick Brown did not want to be with the Knicks and rarely got off the bench. I love that Fields got to play but I also think there was no one else. I think to give the coach the benefit of the doubt in regards to playing defensive players with size and limited offensive ability is naive.

Crush: TD's second year completely invalidates your worries about his first; and by all means, not playing a rookie every game does not mean a coach hates the player.

What is your formula for the number of games it would have been OK for Moz to sit? 5? 10? 15? 20? What's the magic number? Or is it when he is ready and there is an opportunity, which is kind of reasonable?

What gave you the hint that there was no plan to get Moz back into the games? Was it the daily answer from MDA that he thought Moz was very close?

When you need to win games and make the playoffs, guy who don't perform, and especially guys who are young and don't, they sit.

I looked back at the game log to find the magic number D'Antoni came up with for Moz to sit and it was 22 games. There were four games early on during those 22 where he got off the bench and once even played 4 minutes.

awesome response.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I love that Fields got to play but I also think there was no one else. I think to give the coach the benefit of the doubt in regards to playing defensive players with size and limited offensive ability is naive.

This is such a tired argument. TD did play in his 1st year and like many rookies he had ups and downs and thus his minutes weren't consistent. As for guys that are defensive players not getting minutes what the heck was Jared and Turiaf exactly? Moz and Shelden weren't exactly offensive juggernauts either. I wouldn't say that Fields most important contribution was offense. He was kind of our garbage man/glue guy and his offense was a plus.

It isn't a tired argument. The great thing about the Douglas argument is that there is a game log to verify whether or not he played. Here is the link http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4634/gamelog;_ylt=Ag5SM9SWefhfgWTATqzh2x.kvLYF?year=2009 Check out the difference in minutes/dnp coaches decision when the March Texas road trip started versus earlier in the season. As far as Jeffries and Turiaf, I have no explanation for why D'Antoni is so fond of Jeffries.

I'm well aware of TD's game log from his 1st year. I posted once in a thread and it's clear he played more than some made it seem. He had some good games and bad. As a rookie he had some DNP's so what? You can't use TD as some proof against MDA if the kid saw minutes and sat when he struggled. TD isn't a superstar and he had and still has a lot to learn.

MDA played guys like Moz, Turiaf, Jared and Shelden for D!!! So that destroys your argument.

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I love that Fields got to play but I also think there was no one else. I think to give the coach the benefit of the doubt in regards to playing defensive players with size and limited offensive ability is naive.

This is such a tired argument. TD did play in his 1st year and like many rookies he had ups and downs and thus his minutes weren't consistent. As for guys that are defensive players not getting minutes what the heck was Jared and Turiaf exactly? Moz and Shelden weren't exactly offensive juggernauts either. I wouldn't say that Fields most important contribution was offense. He was kind of our garbage man/glue guy and his offense was a plus.

It isn't a tired argument. The great thing about the Douglas argument is that there is a game log to verify whether or not he played. Here is the link http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4634/gamelog;_ylt=Ag5SM9SWefhfgWTATqzh2x.kvLYF?year=2009 Check out the difference in minutes/dnp coaches decision when the March Texas road trip started versus earlier in the season. As far as Jeffries and Turiaf, I have no explanation for why D'Antoni is so fond of Jeffries.

I'm well aware of TD's game log from his 1st year. I posted once in a thread and it's clear he played more than some made it seem. He had some good games and bad. As a rookie he had some DNP's so what? You can't use TD as some proof against MDA if the kid saw minutes and sat when he struggled. TD isn't a superstar and he had and still has a lot to learn.

MDA played guys like Moz, Turiaf, Jared and Shelden for D!!! So that destroys your argument.

Papabear Says

One Question?? Who on Mike D's coaching staff is a defensive specialist?? Nobody!! until We hire a defensive coaching staff we will always be a shoot the 3 and no defense team. Look at the scores in these playoff games. Mike D will never get the Knicks to the finals or even the eastern championship round the way he coach defense. He has to go.