martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Why does MDA only have to get out of the first round next year?

That is a pretty low bar- given that the Miami heat in their first year of having 2 1/2/ superstars are in the Conference Finals, and Thibs in his first year as a head coach with Rose & his roster of just assembled spare parts are there as well?

I'm sorry- but unless Walsh completely screws up this off season- the goal has to be Conference Finals for MDA. He simply has to get there, or we would do better to find the next Thibodeau.

Stat and Melo aren't rookies, and don't have a large window left of when they can be expected to advance far into the play offs.

when did Deng, Noah, Taj become just assembled spare parts?

Who the heck is Taj? I never heard of the guy before. You mean pick 26 is playing and having an impact.

Haven't they been looking to trade Deng off and on? Yea, he's good. And Noah- I know he's a hustle player, but what exactly is he good at? I mean, he doesn't have star skills.

Boozer got there this year, was hurt, same for Korver.

It still stands, that next year, MDA has nearly as much star power as any other eastern conference squad. We've missed out on depth and rebounding- not that MDA would even go there- but I trust Donnie to take care of those needs, just like he did at the start of this season.

MDA has been here 4 years - whether there's been turn over or not- has he had time to lay a foundation or not?

perhaps you should pay closer attention to a team you are making comments on, regarding CHI.

The only player MDA has on the roster that would have been able to lay a foundation on is TD. The rest are all new starting this past year, and of those guys, it's Amare, Shawne, Fields.

And perhaps you should pay closer attention to Knicks: MDA has been with team 3 years.

Next year will be MDA's 4th with this franchise.

Yes, there has been turn over. Yes, maybe Chicago has had a small group of players that have been together.

But, Miami's big three - first year together.

Billups, Melo and Stat aren't as good as Wade, Bosh & Lerbron - but they sure as heck are good enough to get out of the first round.

And MDA sure as heck has a more impressive coaching resume than Erik Spoelstra.

Why do other franchises get turned around and yet our bar for MDA & this group is the first round?

it's always weird to me that people think that the big 3 of Miami are a completely new team. Prior to this year, Spoelstra has been there for 2 years with Wade, James Jone, Haslem, Jamaal Magloire, Chalmbers. When you add experienced vets LeBron, Bosh, Miller with a full training camp, it still takes them half a year to straighted things out. Sprinkle serviceable vets of Dampier, Z, Bibby and that's not a bad team.

Right now Knicks got a lot less than that. Only 1 player with more than a year with coach and Amare from a different team. Miami had a collective 10 years of player experience with the same coach prior to this year and together as a unit.

Lets look at Chicago. This is Rose's 3rd year, Noah's 4th, Taj's 2nd, Deng's 6th. So those guys have played together a lot with each other, all core guys.

How is this compatible to NY's situation?

Just because it's MDA's 4th with the franchise does not mean he can lay down a foundation; to lay a foundation you also have to have continuity with players, and players certainly need time together too, it helps.

Boston added KG and Ray Allen the year they won, but let us not forget that Perkins, Pierce, Scalabrine, Tony Allen were already on team and had all played 2+ seasons together.

I'm saying that next year, our situation is comparable to Miami this year- except they've had part of this year to start blending.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Why does MDA only have to get out of the first round next year?

That is a pretty low bar- given that the Miami heat in their first year of having 2 1/2/ superstars are in the Conference Finals, and Thibs in his first year as a head coach with Rose & his roster of just assembled spare parts are there as well?

I'm sorry- but unless Walsh completely screws up this off season- the goal has to be Conference Finals for MDA. He simply has to get there, or we would do better to find the next Thibodeau.

Stat and Melo aren't rookies, and don't have a large window left of when they can be expected to advance far into the play offs.

when did Deng, Noah, Taj become just assembled spare parts?

Who the heck is Taj? I never heard of the guy before. You mean pick 26 is playing and having an impact.

Haven't they been looking to trade Deng off and on? Yea, he's good. And Noah- I know he's a hustle player, but what exactly is he good at? I mean, he doesn't have star skills.

Boozer got there this year, was hurt, same for Korver.

It still stands, that next year, MDA has nearly as much star power as any other eastern conference squad. We've missed out on depth and rebounding- not that MDA would even go there- but I trust Donnie to take care of those needs, just like he did at the start of this season.

MDA has been here 4 years - whether there's been turn over or not- has he had time to lay a foundation or not?

perhaps you should pay closer attention to a team you are making comments on, regarding CHI.

The only player MDA has on the roster that would have been able to lay a foundation on is TD. The rest are all new starting this past year, and of those guys, it's Amare, Shawne, Fields.

And perhaps you should pay closer attention to Knicks: MDA has been with team 3 years.

Next year will be MDA's 4th with this franchise.

Yes, there has been turn over. Yes, maybe Chicago has had a small group of players that have been together.

But, Miami's big three - first year together.

Billups, Melo and Stat aren't as good as Wade, Bosh & Lerbron - but they sure as heck are good enough to get out of the first round.

And MDA sure as heck has a more impressive coaching resume than Erik Spoelstra.

Why do other franchises get turned around and yet our bar for MDA & this group is the first round?

it's always weird to me that people think that the big 3 of Miami are a completely new team. Prior to this year, Spoelstra has been there for 2 years with Wade, James Jone, Haslem, Jamaal Magloire, Chalmbers. When you add experienced vets LeBron, Bosh, Miller with a full training camp, it still takes them half a year to straighted things out. Sprinkle serviceable vets of Dampier, Z, Bibby and that's not a bad team.

Right now Knicks got a lot less than that. Only 1 player with more than a year with coach and Amare from a different team. Miami had a collective 10 years of player experience with the same coach prior to this year and together as a unit.

Lets look at Chicago. This is Rose's 3rd year, Noah's 4th, Taj's 2nd, Deng's 6th. So those guys have played together a lot with each other, all core guys.

How is this compatible to NY's situation?

Just because it's MDA's 4th with the franchise does not mean he can lay down a foundation; to lay a foundation you also have to have continuity with players, and players certainly need time together too, it helps.

Boston added KG and Ray Allen the year they won, but let us not forget that Perkins, Pierce, Scalabrine, Tony Allen were already on team and had all played 2+ seasons together.

I'm saying that next year, our situation is comparable to Miami this year- except they've had part of this year to start blending.

Right. Except for the fact that Wade, LeBron, Bosh much better than Melo, Amare, Billups. And Shawne, TD, Turiaf, Fields are much worse than Miller, Haslem, James Jones, Magloire, Chalmbers, Dmapier, Z, right? And you should also tack on 1 extra year together for Amare, Shawne, TD, Fields, Turiaf to equate to Wade, Haslem, Jones, Chalmbers being together for that long.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Why does MDA only have to get out of the first round next year?

That is a pretty low bar- given that the Miami heat in their first year of having 2 1/2/ superstars are in the Conference Finals, and Thibs in his first year as a head coach with Rose & his roster of just assembled spare parts are there as well?

I'm sorry- but unless Walsh completely screws up this off season- the goal has to be Conference Finals for MDA. He simply has to get there, or we would do better to find the next Thibodeau.

Stat and Melo aren't rookies, and don't have a large window left of when they can be expected to advance far into the play offs.

when did Deng, Noah, Taj become just assembled spare parts?

Who the heck is Taj? I never heard of the guy before. You mean pick 26 is playing and having an impact.

Haven't they been looking to trade Deng off and on? Yea, he's good. And Noah- I know he's a hustle player, but what exactly is he good at? I mean, he doesn't have star skills.

Boozer got there this year, was hurt, same for Korver.

It still stands, that next year, MDA has nearly as much star power as any other eastern conference squad. We've missed out on depth and rebounding- not that MDA would even go there- but I trust Donnie to take care of those needs, just like he did at the start of this season.

MDA has been here 4 years - whether there's been turn over or not- has he had time to lay a foundation or not?

perhaps you should pay closer attention to a team you are making comments on, regarding CHI.

The only player MDA has on the roster that would have been able to lay a foundation on is TD. The rest are all new starting this past year, and of those guys, it's Amare, Shawne, Fields.

And perhaps you should pay closer attention to Knicks: MDA has been with team 3 years.

Next year will be MDA's 4th with this franchise.

Yes, there has been turn over. Yes, maybe Chicago has had a small group of players that have been together.

But, Miami's big three - first year together.

Billups, Melo and Stat aren't as good as Wade, Bosh & Lerbron - but they sure as heck are good enough to get out of the first round.

And MDA sure as heck has a more impressive coaching resume than Erik Spoelstra.

Why do other franchises get turned around and yet our bar for MDA & this group is the first round?

Outside of Melo/Amare none of our players would ever crack the rotation in Cicago but yeah go ahead make the case that Mike has equal talent.

loweyecue wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Why does MDA only have to get out of the first round next year?

That is a pretty low bar- given that the Miami heat in their first year of having 2 1/2/ superstars are in the Conference Finals, and Thibs in his first year as a head coach with Rose & his roster of just assembled spare parts are there as well?

I'm sorry- but unless Walsh completely screws up this off season- the goal has to be Conference Finals for MDA. He simply has to get there, or we would do better to find the next Thibodeau.

Stat and Melo aren't rookies, and don't have a large window left of when they can be expected to advance far into the play offs.

when did Deng, Noah, Taj become just assembled spare parts?

Who the heck is Taj? I never heard of the guy before. You mean pick 26 is playing and having an impact.

Haven't they been looking to trade Deng off and on? Yea, he's good. And Noah- I know he's a hustle player, but what exactly is he good at? I mean, he doesn't have star skills.

Boozer got there this year, was hurt, same for Korver.

It still stands, that next year, MDA has nearly as much star power as any other eastern conference squad. We've missed out on depth and rebounding- not that MDA would even go there- but I trust Donnie to take care of those needs, just like he did at the start of this season.

MDA has been here 4 years - whether there's been turn over or not- has he had time to lay a foundation or not?

perhaps you should pay closer attention to a team you are making comments on, regarding CHI.

The only player MDA has on the roster that would have been able to lay a foundation on is TD. The rest are all new starting this past year, and of those guys, it's Amare, Shawne, Fields.

And perhaps you should pay closer attention to Knicks: MDA has been with team 3 years.

Next year will be MDA's 4th with this franchise.

Yes, there has been turn over. Yes, maybe Chicago has had a small group of players that have been together.

But, Miami's big three - first year together.

Billups, Melo and Stat aren't as good as Wade, Bosh & Lerbron - but they sure as heck are good enough to get out of the first round.

And MDA sure as heck has a more impressive coaching resume than Erik Spoelstra.

Why do other franchises get turned around and yet our bar for MDA & this group is the first round?

Outside of Melo/Amare none of our players would ever crack the rotation in Cicago but yeah go ahead make the case that Mike has equal talent.

So are Bogans, Asik, Wtason better players than Douglas, Shawne Williams, and Bill Walker?

If they are....... which I'm not disputing they aren't what makes them better?

Looking forward to you or anyone who'll answer these 2 questions with their absolute best straight face

franco12 wrote:

Juice wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Why does MDA only have to get out of the first round next year?

That is a pretty low bar- given that the Miami heat in their first year of having 2 1/2/ superstars are in the Conference Finals, and Thibs in his first year as a head coach with Rose & his roster of just assembled spare parts are there as well?

I'm sorry- but unless Walsh completely screws up this off season- the goal has to be Conference Finals for MDA. He simply has to get there, or we would do better to find the next Thibodeau.

Stat and Melo aren't rookies, and don't have a large window left of when they can be expected to advance far into the play offs.

when did Deng, Noah, Taj become just assembled spare parts?

Who the heck is Taj? I never heard of the guy before. You mean pick 26 is playing and having an impact.

Haven't they been looking to trade Deng off and on? Yea, he's good. And Noah- I know he's a hustle player, but what exactly is he good at? I mean, he doesn't have star skills.

Boozer got there this year, was hurt, same for Korver.

It still stands, that next year, MDA has nearly as much star power as any other eastern conference squad. We've missed out on depth and rebounding- not that MDA would even go there- but I trust Donnie to take care of those needs, just like he did at the start of this season.

MDA has been here 4 years - whether there's been turn over or not- has he had time to lay a foundation or not?

perhaps you should pay closer attention to a team you are making comments on, regarding CHI.

The only player MDA has on the roster that would have been able to lay a foundation on is TD. The rest are all new starting this past year, and of those guys, it's Amare, Shawne, Fields.

And perhaps you should pay closer attention to Knicks: MDA has been with team 3 years.

Next year will be MDA's 4th with this franchise.

Yes, there has been turn over. Yes, maybe Chicago has had a small group of players that have been together.

But, Miami's big three - first year together.

Billups, Melo and Stat aren't as good as Wade, Bosh & Lerbron - but they sure as heck are good enough to get out of the first round.

And MDA sure as heck has a more impressive coaching resume than Erik Spoelstra.

Why do other franchises get turned around and yet our bar for MDA & this group is the first round?

Outside of Melo/Amare none of our players would ever crack the rotation in Cicago but yeah go ahead make the case that Mike has equal talent.

So are Bogans, Asik, Wtason better players than Douglas, Shawne Williams, and Bill Walker?

If they are....... which I'm not disputing they aren't what makes them better?

Looking forward to you or anyone who'll answer these 2 questions with their absolute best straight face

And who the heck is Taj Gibson? Like we don't have a player in Toney Douglas selected the same year, three friggin spots after him.

The fact is, there are some decent pieces on this roster- sure, a bunch were gutted to bring Melo here - but as a tandem, there aren't that many teams that have a pair of 'stars' as good as the two we have.

Maybe there are four teams with a better pair of stars- Rose & Boozer, Wade & Lerbron, Garnett & Pierce, Joe Johnson & Josh Smith.

But MDA is supposed to be some kind of Genius- that clearly he should count & be able to give this team and roster an edge with against any other non-genius coach.

To expect "genius" from MDA is too much. Nobody is doing that, I don't think. You don't need to be a genius to take Jeffries out in favor of ANYONE else for the last offensive possession at the end of the game. Any game. Not just game 2 in Boston. Not even any random playoff game. JJ shouldn't be on the floor for the last offensive possession for a NCAA team and its not too much to expect a NCAA coach to take him out in a situation like that AND draw up a play. Not talkin genius, just bare coaching essentials. What MDA is supposed to do imho, at least, don't make it feel like the players are trying to win despite his coaching.

loweyecue wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Why does MDA only have to get out of the first round next year?

That is a pretty low bar- given that the Miami heat in their first year of having 2 1/2/ superstars are in the Conference Finals, and Thibs in his first year as a head coach with Rose & his roster of just assembled spare parts are there as well?

I'm sorry- but unless Walsh completely screws up this off season- the goal has to be Conference Finals for MDA. He simply has to get there, or we would do better to find the next Thibodeau.

Stat and Melo aren't rookies, and don't have a large window left of when they can be expected to advance far into the play offs.

when did Deng, Noah, Taj become just assembled spare parts?

Who the heck is Taj? I never heard of the guy before. You mean pick 26 is playing and having an impact.

Haven't they been looking to trade Deng off and on? Yea, he's good. And Noah- I know he's a hustle player, but what exactly is he good at? I mean, he doesn't have star skills.

Boozer got there this year, was hurt, same for Korver.

It still stands, that next year, MDA has nearly as much star power as any other eastern conference squad. We've missed out on depth and rebounding- not that MDA would even go there- but I trust Donnie to take care of those needs, just like he did at the start of this season.

MDA has been here 4 years - whether there's been turn over or not- has he had time to lay a foundation or not?

perhaps you should pay closer attention to a team you are making comments on, regarding CHI.

The only player MDA has on the roster that would have been able to lay a foundation on is TD. The rest are all new starting this past year, and of those guys, it's Amare, Shawne, Fields.

And perhaps you should pay closer attention to Knicks: MDA has been with team 3 years.

Next year will be MDA's 4th with this franchise.

Yes, there has been turn over. Yes, maybe Chicago has had a small group of players that have been together.

But, Miami's big three - first year together.

Billups, Melo and Stat aren't as good as Wade, Bosh & Lerbron - but they sure as heck are good enough to get out of the first round.

And MDA sure as heck has a more impressive coaching resume than Erik Spoelstra.

Why do other franchises get turned around and yet our bar for MDA & this group is the first round?

Outside of Melo/Amare none of our players would ever crack the rotation in Cicago but yeah go ahead make the case that Mike has equal talent.

martin wrote:Can you imagine a team of Moz, Amare, Melo, Fields, Felton. Bench: Gallo, Turiaf, AR, TD, Shawne Willams, pick #17, MLE?

We know that was never going to be. Melo gets the money in Jersey.

and if it were to happen we go all in to get Paul. Not a bad thing mind you, but our depth would still be at question.

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:The thing is even when we had that core we were stil disjointed and actually on a pretty steady decline since the start of the season. We were running stat into the ground to try to stay above water and we got just what we deserved when he broke down in the playoffs.

martin wrote:^ The biggest difference in how Miami, Chicago, Boston built their teams over what NY has done... all of them had about 4-5 players who had played together for 2+ years before they added the superstars. Knicks traded away those 4-5 players in Gallo, Chandler, Moz, Felton, AR for Melo/Billups.

NY adds Melo to a core of some combo of above list, we got a real team that competes for EC immediately, no doubt IMHO.

Team was > .500 when the trade went down. that's fact.

Team was 10 or 11 above and was slowing drifting down to like 2 above. That's a downward trend and a more relevant FACT.

Another example is over the Knicks history in the NBA we were above 0.500 untill several years ago. Does that mean we were just fine untill that point, becaise our overall record was above 0.500?

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:The thing is even when we had that core we were stil disjointed and actually on a pretty steady decline since the start of the season. We were running stat into the ground to try to stay above water and we got just what we deserved when he broke down in the playoffs.

martin wrote:^ The biggest difference in how Miami, Chicago, Boston built their teams over what NY has done... all of them had about 4-5 players who had played together for 2+ years before they added the superstars. Knicks traded away those 4-5 players in Gallo, Chandler, Moz, Felton, AR for Melo/Billups.

NY adds Melo to a core of some combo of above list, we got a real team that competes for EC immediately, no doubt IMHO.

Team was > .500 when the trade went down. that's fact.

Team was 10 or 11 above and was slowing drifting down to like 2 above. That's a downward trend and a more relevant FACT.

results don't matter? only trends? team could have just as likely reversed slow-down as they had done previously in the season. That's the way of a 82-game season for every team. Ups, Downs, etc.

For every 3-8 downward spiral there follows a 13-1 run?

When Walmart's profits decline over a quater, they don't say well we overall have amde the most money of the big box companies so we don't really care. and on and on.

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Dude, that trend was for the majority of the season. It wasn't some little blip on the screen. That trend is more informative of the state of the team right before the trade than the overall record. Stat was already wearing down and was not able to play at the same level of explsiveness as the begining of the season. Things were not going to magically improve. There was not going to be a 13-1 run.

Another example is over the Knicks history in the NBA we were above 0.500 untill several years ago. Does that mean we were just fine untill that point, becaise our overall record was above 0.500?

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:The thing is even when we had that core we were stil disjointed and actually on a pretty steady decline since the start of the season. We were running stat into the ground to try to stay above water and we got just what we deserved when he broke down in the playoffs.

martin wrote:^ The biggest difference in how Miami, Chicago, Boston built their teams over what NY has done... all of them had about 4-5 players who had played together for 2+ years before they added the superstars. Knicks traded away those 4-5 players in Gallo, Chandler, Moz, Felton, AR for Melo/Billups.

NY adds Melo to a core of some combo of above list, we got a real team that competes for EC immediately, no doubt IMHO.

Team was > .500 when the trade went down. that's fact.

Team was 10 or 11 above and was slowing drifting down to like 2 above. That's a downward trend and a more relevant FACT.

results don't matter? only trends? team could have just as likely reversed slow-down as they had done previously in the season. That's the way of a 82-game season for every team. Ups, Downs, etc.

For every 3-8 downward spiral there follows a 13-1 run?

The biggest trend over the course of the season before the trade is that they were constantly over .500. Period.

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:That's pretty obtuse, Martin. The team was struggling and you and everyone on this board knows it. When the Yankees lost 6 in a row just recently people weren't like oh they are 3 games over 0.500, they are playing well. Recent trends have value and they would have been hard pressed to finish the season above 0.500 the way things were going. On a related issue that's why good teams call timeout when the other team is on a run. Even if they're still ahead. They don't say well we have more points all is well. Again, trends. Though perhaps some think this is controversial.

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Dude, that trend was for the majority of the season. It wasn't some little blip on the screen. That trend is more informative of the state of the team right before the trade than the overall record. Stat was already wearing down and was not able to play at the same level of explsiveness as the begining of the season. Things were not going to magically improve. There was not going to be a 13-1 run.

Another example is over the Knicks history in the NBA we were above 0.500 untill several years ago. Does that mean we were just fine untill that point, becaise our overall record was above 0.500?

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

martin wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:The thing is even when we had that core we were stil disjointed and actually on a pretty steady decline since the start of the season. We were running stat into the ground to try to stay above water and we got just what we deserved when he broke down in the playoffs.

martin wrote:^ The biggest difference in how Miami, Chicago, Boston built their teams over what NY has done... all of them had about 4-5 players who had played together for 2+ years before they added the superstars. Knicks traded away those 4-5 players in Gallo, Chandler, Moz, Felton, AR for Melo/Billups.

NY adds Melo to a core of some combo of above list, we got a real team that competes for EC immediately, no doubt IMHO.

Team was > .500 when the trade went down. that's fact.

Team was 10 or 11 above and was slowing drifting down to like 2 above. That's a downward trend and a more relevant FACT.

results don't matter? only trends? team could have just as likely reversed slow-down as they had done previously in the season. That's the way of a 82-game season for every team. Ups, Downs, etc.

For every 3-8 downward spiral there follows a 13-1 run?

The biggest trend over the course of the season before the trade is that they were constantly over .500. Period.

did the 3-8 predict the 13-1 run?