nixluva wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:How is it Knick fans that watched the team didn't seem to notice that we played Turiaf, Timo, Jared and Shelden Williams this year? Do those non shooting bigs not count? The only one of them that attempted 3's was Jared. Also the only real C he had worth playing was Shaq. If Darko came in shape and busted it he would've played. At some point it has to be acknowledged that a player has to produce and give 100%. When did we see Darko give 100% when he was here?

When Timo played hard in practice he got a shot to start. It seems simple enough. Darko's problem was that he felt entitled!!! He didn't think he needed to earn it and that was a mistake that many NBA players make. Maybe the Knicks will look at a guy like Kris Humphries. He's not the greatest, but he busts it every minute he's out there! Chuck Hayes and Louis Amundson are also guys that give great effort. Chuck is smallish but effective. Krylo Fasenko, Kwame Brown or Aaron Gray are some other cheap options. Donnie should be able to get something done given how many players are actually available this summer.

The question now becomes how is it that the more talented Randloph and Jordan Hill never got run under MDA? And out of all those you listed only one is a legit center that is Timo who is 7'1. The rest are PFs and one is a small forward and pretty much a scrub. The question that remains to be answered is you can give MDA a center but will he play the center big minutes starter minutes and not go to gimmick lineup mode with PF at center. My personal feeling is that MDA will not be able to do it he will have Amare logging heavy minutes at Center position again next year regardless of who comes in. Unless it is Howard and then he will play him probably out of spite, because he stands to look like a fool if he doesn't just as in the Shaq case, he may have played Shaq in Phoenix but make no mistake MDA didn't enjoy having Shaq.

Some writers have suggested that Mike wanted Shaq. I can't know what the deal was, but he played Shaq and he played Timo our only real 7'er, so why is it that he wouldn't play a new center? The only reason he didn't play Timo more was due to ineffectiveness. Soon as he felt he was ready he put him back in. The other guys we've had are really PF's like you said, so where's the evidence that he won't play a C.

Adelman also played a "gimmick" small lineup with Chuck Hayes. It's not about gimmicks. You play the best you have. MDA made 2 trips to the WCF's without a center starting. Obviously it was pretty effective. Not making it all the way to the finals with small teams can't be held against him if just about everyone agrees that most title teams have legit size!

Any way you look at it the Knicks players that have size there is no way around it. A legit Center would go a long way in holding down the fort. (Defense)

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:To build that team you need patience. Too bad Dolan doesn't have any.

Maybe you forgot 10 year of being " THE TERRI BULLS"

how many years where the Knicks terrible?

At the least Bulls had a plan. They tried to build around two young 7 footers in the frontcourt. One a great scorer, one a great defender. They couldnt stay healthy for starters and Curry simply wasnt very good but is that plan that bad? Is that worse plan than building around Marbury? Around McDyess? Did the Bulls ever trade picks for a star player? Worst thing they did was trade for Jalen Rose, a very ISiah like trade but the rest wasnt bad. They stuck to using the draft, after 10 years got an MVP caliber player and have another shot at a dynasty

Fish, it is the coach that decides what to implement and how to implement it. You speak of Riley he is a coach that has a great ability top adapt to his talents and get the most out his players. Boozer is by no means a great defensive player. Deng wasn't a defensive force neither was Rose for that matter. Only defensive stand out the Bulls had was Noah. It was Tibs that implement his system of defense. He emphasized it in practice and in game until he was getting the most out of the players he had. MDA has to do the same thing he needs to stay with the program from day one to the end to see results of defense. He can't be half azzed in his approach to defense. The great coaches always stay with defense and don't let up on it. The great coaches call time out when he senses his defense if faltering. As for what a player gets paid I don't see what your hang up is about that. It didn't stop Tibs from implementing his system with the Celtics did it? I think they have three big money players on that team that weren't know for their defense and Tibs was able to get them to play defense. I remember Tibs sitting his entire first unit for lack of defense early in the season, sending statements to his star and every player if you want to play, better start buying into my system. Very similar to the way MDA handles players for not playing offense the way he likes it.

I don't really like to say it as you have freedom to say what ever you want, but you are on a hate ramble.

Thibs and pretty much the whole Bulls community will kindly disagree with the bolded statement.

I will agree with you that a coach must emphasize defense - it's a must - but you have to have the defensive talent, especially in the bigs department, to become very good at it from a team perspective. No way around it. Same with offense.

I never saw Deng as a defensive demon. As for Bigs and MDA please don't get me started, that is MDA's down fall.

Not sure if you just don't watch the Bulls or what, Deng is decent defensive player: Thibs always puts him on the toughest wing assignment.

1) What credible bigs doesn't MDA play? 2) What C's has he had?

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:To build that team you need patience. Too bad Dolan doesn't have any.

Maybe you forgot 10 year of being " THE TERRI BULLS"

how many years where the Knicks terrible?

At the least Bulls had a plan. They tried to build around two young 7 footers in the frontcourt. One a great scorer, one a great defender. They couldnt stay healthy for starters and Curry simply wasnt very good but is that plan that bad? Is that worse plan than building around Marbury? Around McDyess? Did the Bulls ever trade picks for a star player? Worst thing they did was trade for Jalen Rose, a very ISiah like trade but the rest wasnt bad. They stuck to using the draft, after 10 years got an MVP caliber player and have another shot at a dynasty

Fish, it is the coach that decides what to implement and how to implement it. You speak of Riley he is a coach that has a great ability top adapt to his talents and get the most out his players. Boozer is by no means a great defensive player. Deng wasn't a defensive force neither was Rose for that matter. Only defensive stand out the Bulls had was Noah. It was Tibs that implement his system of defense. He emphasized it in practice and in game until he was getting the most out of the players he had. MDA has to do the same thing he needs to stay with the program from day one to the end to see results of defense. He can't be half azzed in his approach to defense. The great coaches always stay with defense and don't let up on it. The great coaches call time out when he senses his defense if faltering. As for what a player gets paid I don't see what your hang up is about that. It didn't stop Tibs from implementing his system with the Celtics did it? I think they have three big money players on that team that weren't know for their defense and Tibs was able to get them to play defense. I remember Tibs sitting his entire first unit for lack of defense early in the season, sending statements to his star and every player if you want to play, better start buying into my system. Very similar to the way MDA handles players for not playing offense the way he likes it.

I don't really like to say it as you have freedom to say what ever you want, but you are on a hate ramble.

Thibs and pretty much the whole Bulls community will kindly disagree with the bolded statement.

I will agree with you that a coach must emphasize defense - it's a must - but you have to have the defensive talent, especially in the bigs department, to become very good at it from a team perspective. No way around it. Same with offense.

I never saw Deng as a defensive demon. As for Bigs and MDA please don't get me started, that is MDA's down fall.

Not sure if you just don't watch the Bulls or what, Deng is decent defensive player: Thibs always puts him on the toughest wing assignment.

1) What credible bigs doesn't MDA play? 2) What C's has he had?

I think you have to start with Randolph, and Millic first because they both put up good numbers once they left D'Antoni. With the Knicks you can include Williams who put up good numbers in Denver when he got to play and I would include Jordan Hill as at least a rotation big that looked good in the minutes he got in Houston. Coaches have to play bigs for them to have an impact. Asik has improved a lot this year and is a good big. Aaron Gray played huge minutes against the Lakers and had a big impact. I don't think he gets off the pine for D'Antoni. I think the point is that D'Antoni doesn't play bigs. For every post that praises his treatment of Moz remember that Moz shared how discouraged he was and sat for a bunch of games until injuries forced D'Antoni to use him. The fact that he blew up in that game helped his cause and he did become a member of the rotation again. It is so hard to find bigs that D'Antoni will play that there are posters suggesting the Knicks trade to get Moz back because they know that D'Antoni will play him. I don't believe that D'Antoni sees a traditional big as functional for his style and he values the offensive talents and outside shooting of smaller players over the rebounding, and the defensive presence traditional bigs bring. I don't see this changing. It will be interesting to see what happens if Walsh is extended because I believe he wanted the bigs he brought in to be used and he knows how important size is for a team to be successful in the playoffs.

Crush,I couldn't have said it better. You seem to understand MDA thinking very well. MDA is looking for offensive mismatches and that starts with playing a PF at center he wants to out quick the so called plodders. Yet MDA won't see the downfall on the defensive side of the ball playing a PF at Center.

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:To build that team you need patience. Too bad Dolan doesn't have any.

Maybe you forgot 10 year of being " THE TERRI BULLS"

how many years where the Knicks terrible?

At the least Bulls had a plan. They tried to build around two young 7 footers in the frontcourt. One a great scorer, one a great defender. They couldnt stay healthy for starters and Curry simply wasnt very good but is that plan that bad? Is that worse plan than building around Marbury? Around McDyess? Did the Bulls ever trade picks for a star player? Worst thing they did was trade for Jalen Rose, a very ISiah like trade but the rest wasnt bad. They stuck to using the draft, after 10 years got an MVP caliber player and have another shot at a dynasty

Fish, it is the coach that decides what to implement and how to implement it. You speak of Riley he is a coach that has a great ability top adapt to his talents and get the most out his players. Boozer is by no means a great defensive player. Deng wasn't a defensive force neither was Rose for that matter. Only defensive stand out the Bulls had was Noah. It was Tibs that implement his system of defense. He emphasized it in practice and in game until he was getting the most out of the players he had. MDA has to do the same thing he needs to stay with the program from day one to the end to see results of defense. He can't be half azzed in his approach to defense. The great coaches always stay with defense and don't let up on it. The great coaches call time out when he senses his defense if faltering. As for what a player gets paid I don't see what your hang up is about that. It didn't stop Tibs from implementing his system with the Celtics did it? I think they have three big money players on that team that weren't know for their defense and Tibs was able to get them to play defense. I remember Tibs sitting his entire first unit for lack of defense early in the season, sending statements to his star and every player if you want to play, better start buying into my system. Very similar to the way MDA handles players for not playing offense the way he likes it.

I don't really like to say it as you have freedom to say what ever you want, but you are on a hate ramble.

Thibs and pretty much the whole Bulls community will kindly disagree with the bolded statement.

I will agree with you that a coach must emphasize defense - it's a must - but you have to have the defensive talent, especially in the bigs department, to become very good at it from a team perspective. No way around it. Same with offense.

I never saw Deng as a defensive demon. As for Bigs and MDA please don't get me started, that is MDA's down fall.

Not sure if you just don't watch the Bulls or what, Deng is decent defensive player: Thibs always puts him on the toughest wing assignment.

1) What credible bigs doesn't MDA play? 2) What C's has he had?

I think you have to start with Randolph, and Millic first because they both put up good numbers once they left D'Antoni. With the Knicks you can include Williams who put up good numbers in Denver when he got to play and I would include Jordan Hill as at least a rotation big that looked good in the minutes he got in Houston. Coaches have to play bigs for them to have an impact. Asik has improved a lot this year and is a good big. Aaron Gray played huge minutes against the Lakers and had a big impact. I don't think he gets off the pine for D'Antoni. I think the point is that D'Antoni doesn't play bigs. For every post that praises his treatment of Moz remember that Moz shared how discouraged he was and sat for a bunch of games until injuries forced D'Antoni to use him. The fact that he blew up in that game helped his cause and he did become a member of the rotation again. It is so hard to find bigs that D'Antoni will play that there are posters suggesting the Knicks trade to get Moz back because they know that D'Antoni will play him. I don't believe that D'Antoni sees a traditional big as functional for his style and he values the offensive talents and outside shooting of smaller players over the rebounding, and the defensive presence traditional bigs bring. I don't see this changing. It will be interesting to see what happens if Walsh is extended because I believe he wanted the bigs he brought in to be used and he knows how important size is for a team to be successful in the playoffs.

Crush,I couldn't have said it better. You seem to understand MDA thinking very well. MDA is looking for offensive mismatches and that starts with playing a PF at center he wants to out quick the so called plodders. Yet MDA won't see the downfall on the defensive side of the ball playing a PF at Center.

I agree, MDA doesn't see the down fall as much on defense, but if he's willing to play a offensively challenge Jeffries, then he's not totally ruling it out.

IMO, AR, Darko and Hill never seem comfortable or had enough cofindence to warrent a lot of playing time. The system could have benfited them if they had highr IQ's and in better shape, MDA gave those guy's spot duty, none of them could sustain any kind of good play in any area.

A perfect example would be with Mosgov, the game he erupted for 25 and 11, the very next game he was a starter. As easy as it maybe to play yourself out of the line up, is as easy as it is to play your self in it.

KnicksFE wrote:Hello, this is actually the first time I’m posting in this forum, however I have being a regular reader of this site for more than five years, I just never posted my opinion before. Look guys, if you don’t like Mike D. Antoni for his style and would prefer the Knicks play a more defensive system, man up and say it, nothing wrong with that. But to bash D. Antony for not giving extended minutes to under achievers like Darko Milicik, Jordan Hill and to a lesser degree Anthony Randolph is clearly not paying attention to the actual games.

Darko was, is and will always be one of the biggest busts in the history of the NBA; he is a career 18 mpg player and has played for four different teams in his seven years in the NBA, hey if you like him so much, Kwame Brown is available, he actually cost less, has better career stats and according to Jeff Van Gundy plays good defense on the post.

Jordan Hill, since being traded from the Knicks to the Houston Rockets, his playing time has only increase by five minutes; there is a reason why his coach Rick Adelma preferred to play the smallest center in the NBA 6’6 Chuck Hayes over the 6’10 Jordan Hill, how is that D Antoni’s fault?

While I like Anthony Randolph, because he is very talented, young and did put up nice stats after he was traded to Minnesota, when he was with the Knicks, he played bad, scare with no confidence, every time I saw him played, he tried to handle the ball like he was the Knicks point guard and not the 6’11 player that he is. May be we got one year too late.

Again, if you don’t like Mike D’ Antoni or you think he should not be the Knicks coach going forward I respect that, it’s your preference, but please don’t give me Darko as the reason for it.

JUmp right in! Check the Alba thread and check the post count.

Glad you can chime in but remember we do accept different opinions and its not the end all to disagree.

The media sways fans and we got a ton of media content and fans eat it up.

Im not sure why but we are a impatient lot.

Enjoy!

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:Hello, this is actually the first time I’m posting in this forum, however I have being a regular reader of this site for more than five years, I just never posted my opinion before. Look guys, if you don’t like Mike D. Antoni for his style and would prefer the Knicks play a more defensive system, man up and say it, nothing wrong with that. But to bash D. Antony for not giving extended minutes to under achievers like Darko Milicik, Jordan Hill and to a lesser degree Anthony Randolph is clearly not paying attention to the actual games.

Darko was, is and will always be one of the biggest busts in the history of the NBA; he is a career 18 mpg player and has played for four different teams in his seven years in the NBA, hey if you like him so much, Kwame Brown is available, he actually cost less, has better career stats and according to Jeff Van Gundy plays good defense on the post.

Jordan Hill, since being traded from the Knicks to the Houston Rockets, his playing time has only increase by five minutes; there is a reason why his coach Rick Adelma preferred to play the smallest center in the NBA 6’6 Chuck Hayes over the 6’10 Jordan Hill, how is that D Antoni’s fault?

While I like Anthony Randolph, because he is very talented, young and did put up nice stats after he was traded to Minnesota, when he was with the Knicks, he played bad, scare with no confidence, every time I saw him played, he tried to handle the ball like he was the Knicks point guard and not the 6’11 player that he is. May be we got one year too late.

Again, if you don’t like Mike D’ Antoni or you think he should not be the Knicks coach going forward I respect that, it’s your preference, but please don’t give me Darko as the reason for it.

Good post, welcome, enjoy the Cheetos and be careful where you park your Civic.

I am not the biggest D'Antoni fan around, but at this point, I think it has more to do with cultural reasons than it does with recent history. I associate "defense" with "good teams". I also think most Knicks fans would. Most NBA fans hate the 90s Knicks. But if I have to watch a significantly flawed team, I'd rather support one that digs in to protect their rim than tries to break out and put it in the other.

"cultural reasons"?

nixluva wrote:How is it Knick fans that watched the team didn't seem to notice that we played Turiaf, Timo, Jared and Shelden Williams this year? Do those non shooting bigs not count? The only one of them that attempted 3's was Jared. Also the only real C he had worth playing was Shaq. If Darko came in shape and busted it he would've played. At some point it has to be acknowledged that a player has to produce and give 100%. When did we see Darko give 100% when he was here?

When Timo played hard in practice he got a shot to start. It seems simple enough. Darko's problem was that he felt entitled!!! He didn't think he needed to earn it and that was a mistake that many NBA players make. Maybe the Knicks will look at a guy like Kris Humphries. He's not the greatest, but he busts it every minute he's out there! Chuck Hayes and Louis Amundson are also guys that give great effort. Chuck is smallish but effective. Krylo Fasenko, Kwame Brown or Aaron Gray are some other cheap options. Donnie should be able to get something done given how many players are actually available this summer.