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OT: BIN LADEN DEAD
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Andrew
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5/2/2011  11:47 AM
The reason that was in print....what country was going to accept his body for burial?
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martin
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5/2/2011  11:49 AM
Panos wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

i think it was in accordance with 24-hour burial window that normally happens for that religion. interpret the implications as you may

At sea? I don't think so. They made sure that body could never be found again.

Just like the Russians burned Hitler's body. What's your point? Do you think he deserved a shrine where people could worship him?

I'm struggling to understand your implications. This isn't a mystery, the guy was a global enemy that changed the course of world history in a profoundly negative way.


You've completely misinterpreted me.
No, I'm not saying he deserved a shrine.
I'm saying that it's awfully suspicious that they destroyed the body, and that we have to take their word for it that it actually was Osama Bin Laden. Why destroy the body? Why not put it somewhere where further proof could be extracted if needed? DNA evidence? Riiiight.

this ain't a wild kingdom capture for some petting zoo. it hasn't been a full 24 hours since announcement and I am pretty sure all details and reports arent fully fleshed, but your implications about what may be going on in some sort of conspiratorial sort of way are, at best, not very well thought out.

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Panos
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5/2/2011  11:54 AM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

i think it was in accordance with 24-hour burial window that normally happens for that religion. interpret the implications as you may

At sea? I don't think so. They made sure that body could never be found again.

Just like the Russians burned Hitler's body. What's your point? Do you think he deserved a shrine where people could worship him?

I'm struggling to understand your implications. This isn't a mystery, the guy was a global enemy that changed the course of world history in a profoundly negative way.


You've completely misinterpreted me.
No, I'm not saying he deserved a shrine.
I'm saying that it's awfully suspicious that they destroyed the body, and that we have to take their word for it that it actually was Osama Bin Laden. Why destroy the body? Why not put it somewhere where further proof could be extracted if needed? DNA evidence? Riiiight.

this ain't a wild kingdom capture for some petting zoo. it hasn't been a full 24 hours since announcement and I am pretty sure all details and reports arent fully fleshed, but your implications about what may be going on in some sort of conspiratorial sort of way are, at best, not very well thought out.

How do you figure that they're not very well thought out?
Is it customary to bury Muslims at sea?
How about enemy combatants? I thought it was only for sailors.
I'm not hearing you say anything comforting about the proof that it is in fact Bin Laden, just denial of what I'm saying could be happening.
BlueSeats
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5/2/2011  12:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/2/2011  12:08 PM
Panos wrote:How do you figure that they're not very well thought out?
Is it customary to bury Muslims at sea?
How about enemy combatants? I thought it was only for sailors.
I'm not hearing you say anything comforting about the proof that it is in fact Bin Laden, just denial of what I'm saying could be happening.

It's surprising at first blush, I grant you that, but there's a logic behind it. Do you really want annual pilgrimages to Mecca, Medina and Osama? And how many countries want to be know as the official home and resting place of this guy? Radical factions, sure, but official governments? None but the Taliban, I'd imagine, and we're not disposed to granting their most fervent wishes.
nixluva
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5/2/2011  12:12 PM
From what i've heard on MSNBC they have video footage of the battle and likely the body after the fact. I'm sure they probably have video and photos of the body from a medical examiner and the burial at sea. The DNA will also have been tested. No matter what they did it would still be doubted by those that want to believe in conspiracies. There's nothing you can do about that. I'm sure he'll keep making audio and video tapes for years to come He'll be like Elvis. People will swear to seeing him at the mall and everything.
Silverfuel
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5/2/2011  12:24 PM
Panos wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Panos wrote:
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

i think it was in accordance with 24-hour burial window that normally happens for that religion. interpret the implications as you may

At sea? I don't think so. They made sure that body could never be found again.

Just like the Russians burned Hitler's body. What's your point? Do you think he deserved a shrine where people could worship him?

I'm struggling to understand your implications. This isn't a mystery, the guy was a global enemy that changed the course of world history in a profoundly negative way.


You've completely misinterpreted me.
No, I'm not saying he deserved a shrine.
I'm saying that it's awfully suspicious that they destroyed the body, and that we have to take their word for it that it actually was Osama Bin Laden. Why destroy the body? Why not put it somewhere where further proof could be extracted if needed? DNA evidence? Riiiight.


They matched the DNA to his sister. They will maintain his DNA sample forever. This is legit. He is dead. Good job by the Seals.
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Solace
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5/2/2011  12:31 PM
nixluva wrote:From what i've heard on MSNBC they have video footage of the battle and likely the body after the fact. I'm sure they probably have video and photos of the body from a medical examiner and the burial at sea. The DNA will also have been tested. No matter what they did it would still be doubted by those that want to believe in conspiracies. There's nothing you can do about that. I'm sure he'll keep making audio and video tapes for years to come He'll be like Elvis. People will swear to seeing him at the mall and everything.

Someone posted on twitter that Bin Laden made a video to confirm his death. People are ridiculous.

But yeah, I agree. This is legit. It's weird at first, but understanding the traditions and the fact that they have the DNA, the video, etc... it's enough for me.

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Silverfuel
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5/2/2011  12:36 PM
Hours after he was killed in Pakistan in a firefight with U.S. Navy SEALs, bin Laden’s corpse was flown to Afghanistan to be identified through DNA analysis, then transported to the North Arabian sea.

There, aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, the body of one of the world’s most feared terrorist masterminds was washed in accordance with Islamic ritual and lowered into the water.

Submerging the body at sea precluded the establishment of a gravesite shrine that could become a rallying point for bin Laden’s followers. It may have circumvented unseemly arguments over custody of his body or accusations of religious disrespect.

The rapid disposal of bin Laden’s body also adhered to the Muslim tradition of burial within 24 hours of death.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/bin_ladens_secret_sea_burial_adds_to_the_mystery_of_his_life/2011/05/02/AF4uEPZF_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage

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jrodmc
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5/2/2011  12:59 PM
Marv wrote:
jrodmc wrote:The old goober could have been axed anytime in the last 15 years. Clinton could have done it. Bush could have done it. Does anyone actually think Osama's security was any better immediately after 9-11 than it is now? Did the Navy Seals suddenly get better scores at black ops with this administration?

It's pretty frightening to think that determining if and when to kill someone is just another political football.

"Under my direction, we shot the mother in the head. Justice was done. Now forget about my dayum birth cert, or I just might send some bad A's out to your house next."

it's been documented that clinton’s attempt to kill him was thwarted by the pakistan gov't tipping him off. we've also heard all about the botched attempt at bora bora following 9-11.


It's also been more clearly documented and reported that Clinton wasn't attempting to kill him as much as capture him alive to stand trial. Bush could have decided to keep him alive so there'd be a more concrete figure for the public (and media) to concentrate on, rather than the ubiquitous, faceless "Islamo-facists." Like most lead stories on the news ended with, the big question is "now what?".

Marv wrote:what would you like us to take from your last comment?

Take whatever you like. It's a free country.
Nalod
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5/2/2011  1:26 PM
"he swims with the fishes"
Moonangie
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5/2/2011  1:35 PM
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

It is a gesture of respect to Muslims world wide, since by custom they must bury the corpse within 24 hours. It is also a strategy to disaffect Islamists who might otherwise use his burial place as a symbol of martyrdom.
Moonangie
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5/2/2011  1:38 PM
Having lost one of my best childhood friends on 9/11, Bin Laden's killing to me measures a degree of relief because now I have a significant sense that my buddy's murder has been partially avenged.
misterearl
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5/2/2011  1:54 PM
Nalod wrote:"he swims with the fishes"

"...to some it seems as if the use of violence (and power) is never justified. I just don't understand the logic. There is evil in the world. Sometimes you have to do bad things in order for good things to live. This is why so often many people do nothing. Fear? Helplessness? I think it's important to listen to the entire speech Obama made last night. We are not in a war against Islam, we are fighting a war in which our way of life must be protected. By any means necessary. Difficult. Yes, difficult. But who said breathing the air was easy?" - Ethelbert Miller

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OasisBU
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5/2/2011  2:02 PM
Moonangie wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

It is a gesture of respect to Muslims world wide, since by custom they must bury the corpse within 24 hours. It is also a strategy to disaffect Islamists who might otherwise use his burial place as a symbol of martyrdom.

Just to add a little more info to this - the United States apparently offered Saudi Arabia the body and they turned it down.

"The Saudis declined a U.S. offer to take the body, this person said." - WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704569404576298760734953124.html

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JrZyHuStLa
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5/2/2011  2:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/2/2011  2:37 PM
Good riddance.
Silverfuel
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5/2/2011  3:07 PM
OasisBU wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

It is a gesture of respect to Muslims world wide, since by custom they must bury the corpse within 24 hours. It is also a strategy to disaffect Islamists who might otherwise use his burial place as a symbol of martyrdom.

Just to add a little more info to this - the United States apparently offered Saudi Arabia the body and they turned it down.

"The Saudis declined a U.S. offer to take the body, this person said." - WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704569404576298760734953124.html


Good one, I had missed that.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Allanfan20
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5/2/2011  3:21 PM
Silverfuel wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

It is a gesture of respect to Muslims world wide, since by custom they must bury the corpse within 24 hours. It is also a strategy to disaffect Islamists who might otherwise use his burial place as a symbol of martyrdom.

Just to add a little more info to this - the United States apparently offered Saudi Arabia the body and they turned it down.

"The Saudis declined a U.S. offer to take the body, this person said." - WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704569404576298760734953124.html


Good one, I had missed that.

My question is this: Why were we so respectful about this towards Osamas carcus and besides his radical terrorist followers, who actually cares how the body is dealt with? Why would Muslims choose to associate themselves with this man by allowing him to be part of their own rituals?

Is this only confusuing me?

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Moonangie
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5/2/2011  3:27 PM
Geopolitics is not so cut and dried. Why fan the flames by being disrespectful of religious customs. Better to show respect even if it's not earned.
Nalod
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5/2/2011  4:19 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
OasisBU wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Panos wrote:TEN YEAR search, they finally find the man, and within 12 hours, they "bury" (hide) the body at sea. Does this not sound just a little fishy to anyone else?

It is a gesture of respect to Muslims world wide, since by custom they must bury the corpse within 24 hours. It is also a strategy to disaffect Islamists who might otherwise use his burial place as a symbol of martyrdom.

Just to add a little more info to this - the United States apparently offered Saudi Arabia the body and they turned it down.

"The Saudis declined a U.S. offer to take the body, this person said." - WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704569404576298760734953124.html


Good one, I had missed that.

My question is this: Why were we so respectful about this towards Osamas carcus and besides his radical terrorist followers, who actually cares how the body is dealt with? Why would Muslims choose to associate themselves with this man by allowing him to be part of their own rituals?

Is this only confusuing me?

I think you try to take the high road when ever you can.

We did an military operation on foriegn soil and basically to only kill someone.

Then we washed his body to purify it and dumped in the drink. What ever.

Don't worry, someone will find fault with what we do anyway.

Trump would have prefered we don't kill him, put him in a cage and charge an admisson fee to see him. Oh wait, that was "King Kong". Never mind.
Andrew
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5/2/2011  4:32 PM
Posted by a cousin of mine on FB:

‎"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"

Martin Luther King, Jr

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