martin wrote:

jimimou wrote:so let me get this straight, we are taking two pages to talk about a guy who had like two or three really good games in an otherwise terrible career so far? c'mon guys, some of you talk about AR like he would have been the future of the club.

im not the biggest mda fan at all and agree that he sometimes doesnt give his players a deserving shot, but to be fair to pringles, he gave AR a shot and AR failed. andt, dont take mda's word for it, take the word of the hahn's of the world who actually go to knicks practices and see with their own eyes that the guy didnt want it bad enough here. same goes for darko.

for every AR there is a landry fields who got his shot and made it last. look at mason too, the guy got LESS burn than AR when AR was here and now he is playing some good minutes. i dont know why it took 70 games to get him into the rotation, but he eventually got in.

add in Shawne Williams or even Moz.

sure, i agree on shawne. moz in my eyes was a little different. but the premise is still valid. moz did get early burn. mostly b/c we needed a center. in the beginning he stunk it up - b/c he didnt really know how to play within the system yet. but instead of sulking like AR did in practice, what does moz do? he practices each day like its the nba finals. which, earned him his playing time back. then, once he got the system down and learned to play next to amare, the #'s followed and his production increased. biggest positive on moz was effort. moz has it ALWAYS, AR when he feels like it.

ill tell ya what tho, if AR goes out and continues to have 30 point nights for the rest of the year, i'll eat crow...the more realistic view, however is, it will prob take another 14 months for AR to get another 20+ point game.

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The kid played terrible in ny...nobody doubted his talents, but he clearly struggled in this offense

Come on..Are you really going to act like the kid was given a legitimate chance to play?

Why didn't he struggle at LSU? Dude showed enough in only 1 year there to become a lottery pick..Why didn't he struggle in GS? Say whatever you want, I know he had his ups & down there but when Nellie came to his senses and actually got this kid in games for extended mins, he excelled. Why isn't he struggling in Minnesota now when called upon and given ample time to perform?

there is a difference between showing very good talent while putting up stats and playing within a team environment and winning games, right? We understand the difference?

Not on the same level, but it's the difference between MJ before and after Phil Jackson got to him.

How do you know he couldn't or didn't play within the team environment? I could certainly understand if he got a chance to play and you drew this conclusion..

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The kid played terrible in ny...nobody doubted his talents, but he clearly struggled in this offense

Come on..Are you really going to act like the kid was given a legitimate chance to play?

Why didn't he struggle at LSU? Dude showed enough in only 1 year there to become a lottery pick..Why didn't he struggle in GS? Say whatever you want, I know he had his ups & down there but when Nellie came to his senses and actually got this kid in games for extended mins, he excelled. Why isn't he struggling in Minnesota now when called upon and given ample time to perform?

there is a difference between showing very good talent while putting up stats and playing within a team environment and winning games, right? We understand the difference?

Not on the same level, but it's the difference between MJ before and after Phil Jackson got to him.

How do you know he couldn't or didn't play within the team environment? I could certainly understand if he got a chance to play and you drew this conclusion..

cause I watched the games early on in the year and saw the scant minutes he played after that?

I mean, it's not definitive or anything, and I wish I could have been at every practice to see that too. but from all reports, that's what the beat writers were telling us.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The kid played terrible in ny...nobody doubted his talents, but he clearly struggled in this offense

Come on..Are you really going to act like the kid was given a legitimate chance to play?

Why didn't he struggle at LSU? Dude showed enough in only 1 year there to become a lottery pick..Why didn't he struggle in GS? Say whatever you want, I know he had his ups & down there but when Nellie came to his senses and actually got this kid in games for extended mins, he excelled. Why isn't he struggling in Minnesota now when called upon and given ample time to perform?

there is a difference between showing very good talent while putting up stats and playing within a team environment and winning games, right? We understand the difference?

Not on the same level, but it's the difference between MJ before and after Phil Jackson got to him.

How do you know he couldn't or didn't play within the team environment? I could certainly understand if he got a chance to play and you drew this conclusion..

cause I watched the games early on in the year and saw the scant minutes he played after that?

I mean, it's not definitive or anything, and I wish I could have been at every practice to see that too. but from all reports, that's what the beat writers were telling us.

He is 21 years old trying to get assimilated into a new system..You are more than willing to give a vet like Billups time to adjust but not this young kid...And I can't even say the problem is us losing a good player but it's this coach's propensity to devalue assets...We got nothing in return..nothing...At some point you have to stop defending that...

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:Rambis would be a great option for us at coach - he clearly seems to find a way to get production out of players that D'Antoni fails to.

And he isn't afraid to bench his starters in the 4Q if they aren't giving an effort.

lol the wolves are 17-55 and have a ton of talent. if he was doing that here, you'd be calling for his head.

Papabear Says

Either way I'm glad to see Randolph playing B ball. D'Antoni would have never given him a chance. Mike D will be history soon.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The kid played terrible in ny...nobody doubted his talents, but he clearly struggled in this offense

Come on..Are you really going to act like the kid was given a legitimate chance to play?

Why didn't he struggle at LSU? Dude showed enough in only 1 year there to become a lottery pick..Why didn't he struggle in GS? Say whatever you want, I know he had his ups & down there but when Nellie came to his senses and actually got this kid in games for extended mins, he excelled. Why isn't he struggling in Minnesota now when called upon and given ample time to perform?

there is a difference between showing very good talent while putting up stats and playing within a team environment and winning games, right? We understand the difference?

Not on the same level, but it's the difference between MJ before and after Phil Jackson got to him.

How do you know he couldn't or didn't play within the team environment? I could certainly understand if he got a chance to play and you drew this conclusion..

cause I watched the games early on in the year and saw the scant minutes he played after that?

I mean, it's not definitive or anything, and I wish I could have been at every practice to see that too. but from all reports, that's what the beat writers were telling us.

He is 21 years old trying to get assimilated into a new system..You are more than willing to give a vet like Billups time to adjust but not this young kid...And I can't even say the problem is us losing a good player but it's this coach's propensity to devalue assets...We got nothing in return..nothing...At some point you have to stop defending that...

"We got nothing" in return for the Melo/Billups trade?

I have no problem with AR or Billups or Felton trying to get assimilated into a new system. I do have problem with dudes not giving effort and not practicing.

Devalue assets. I guess you can look at what MDA did that way. Andy Rautins is devaluing by the day, do you suggest we play him and take minutes away from Billups and TD? Because generally that's the same scenario; sit AR/Moz until they got it together in favor of giving their minutes to Turiaf/Amare/Chandler/Gallo and winning games.

Generally, after starting 3-8, MDA sat Mason, AR, and Moz (towards end of streak) and Knicks went on a 13-1 streak. Was that move good or bad in your opinion?

knicks1248 wrote:AR IQ was low, very low, he's 21 and will be traded again before his career is over trust me. MDA system requires players with high IQ's, becuase it's a system that provides a lot of freedom on the offensve end..what happens with guys like AR is they take that liberty and think shoot first ask questions later. In this system AR takes open shots not good shots, thats why he was regulated to the bench..

Just because d howard is open for a three, doesn't mean he should take that shot, it's a low % shot for him, thats what AR was doing. We have seen Amare make some tough 3 point shots in the clutch and make them, does he come out the next game and start hoisting up 3's. not at all..AR has to grow up and should have stayed his ass in school.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19238#ixzz1Hefk85Kz

holfresh wrote:Well first off, it was silly trying to start two rookies and expect success...There are guys with talent that need game play and others with NBA talent to make the team...Rautins have no value, at 6' 10" AR does...My meaning in we got nothing in return is that he was devalue so much that he became a throw in the Melo trade...He might have been our best big defender/shot blocker if defense means something to this coach...

The 13-1 run might have been a good move at the time but it looks like its hurting us now because STAT looks burnt out...Guys were playing too many minutes which took a toll on Felton and STAT looks like he can barely walk...

Amare is not even in the top 10 for minutes per game. In fact, Felton and Amare are #18, #19. The fatigue is probably because of the # of games in March.

So you think it was a good move. Sitting Moz and AR. Right?

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:Well first off, it was silly trying to start two rookies and expect success...There are guys with talent that need game play and others with NBA talent to make the team...Rautins have no value, at 6' 10" AR does...My meaning in we got nothing in return is that he was devalue so much that he became a throw in the Melo trade...He might have been our best big defender/shot blocker if defense means something to this coach...

The 13-1 run might have been a good move at the time but it looks like its hurting us now because STAT looks burnt out...Guys were playing too many minutes which took a toll on Felton and STAT looks like he can barely walk...

Amare is not even in the top 10 for minutes per game. In fact, Felton and Amare are #18, #19. The fatigue is probably because of the # of games in March.

So you think it was a good move. Sitting Moz and AR. Right?

Wrong...I was posting back then that there is no way that Amare could keep this pace up for the season...Moz got his shot, he has bad hands period...AR never got his..

markvmc wrote:Please, for the love of god, enough with the Randolph threads.

Why? AR is the next Chris Webber