What I will man up to is that I didn't anticipate that Melo and Billups would stuggle so mightily to a new system. I did believe both were talented enough to tough it out and make it work in the interim. I was completely wrong on that account.

fishmike wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

fishmike wrote:yea.. Chandler played SG guard last night and DESTROYED Derozen.

Depth can win. We had all the pieces. We had youth and size at every position. We even had a star to lead and he was. Now we have a grumpy baby making $20mm plus. We gave up good players that want to be here, were drafted here.

You reap what you sow.

I'm Melo is going to carry us in the playoffs, just like last night. I cant wait. I'm excited. I am. Really.

Like Derozen is D-Wade or something LOL. I wouldn't call outscoring Derozen by 2 points and getting 6 more boards as DESTROYING anyone, especially when Derozen played less than 20 minutes.

100% Melo's fault the Knicks lost last night. It had absolutely nothing to do with Billups or TD. Melo must have some sort of mind control power that allows him to enter the brains of other players on the team that makes them play like crap come crunch time. Games are won and lost as a team yet whenever the Knicks lose it's Melo's fault.

you really dont get it. Yea.. its on Melo more than anyone else. We trade the team for a star and a finisher. He hit a shot in the 4th qtr last night? Would you say Melo has been the player you hoped? Do you notice a difference in the way Amare conducted himself when the Knicks started 3-8 vs how Melo conducts himself? It goes beyond TEAM. Thats the point. Before it was the team. Now its about an oversold player who isnt what he was sold as.

Did Melo force his way here? Force our owner to give up half the roster and sign him to an extension paying him like Kobe? Is Melo free of responsibility?

Its all about Melo because guys like you made it all about him. Now your blaming Toney Douglas? TD has done his job quite well of late. Has Melo done his?

Melo didn't force anyone to do anything. He had a ton of money on the table that he wouldn't have got withouth the extension. He didn't hold a gun to anyones head and said pull the trigger on the deal. The Knicks wanted him, knew the price and pulled the trigger. Did Melo name the players in the deal? Was Melo acting as GM of the Knicks or Nuggets? Melo didn't sell himself as anything, the media did! Anyone with half a brain knew that Melo coming in wasn't going to be like MJ coming to the Garden.

I'm happy that he's here and am excited about building the team around him and STAT. It's been a total of 16 games and around 3 weeks, certainly not enough time to say the trade was good/bad or make a decision on what type of player or person Melo is going to be for the next 4 years. The guy is far from perfect and will have bad games just like any other player. Denver is not NYC and it will take time for Melo to understand and deal with it.

Melo's been struggling a bit but is to be expected. He's never had to sacrfice his game before and it's going to take time for him to figure it out. At the end of the day there are going to be people like you that, no matter what Melo does, you'll always have something negative to say. Basketball is a team game, always has been always will. When he has a monster game it wil be that he didn't play D. When he scores and rebounds it will be that he didn't have enough assists. When he hits a game winning shot it will be he's supposed to make the game winning shot.

It's not Melo's fault that people like you feel the Knicks gave up to much. The Knicks made a choice and pulled the trigger on the deal. If you don't like the deal it's fine. You can continue to live in the past, dream about what could have been and blame every loss on Melo. I continue to support my guy aka Carmelo Anthony.

I support Melo also. But his #1 priority was get his money. #2 was going to NY

Melo screwed us when he agreed to sign the extension w/ NJ. That ensured we had to beat the ridiculous package NJ was offering. If not for that Walsh would have waited and gotten a fair deal... maybe Chandler, Fields, Curry, pick, AR, cap relief... etc. Gallo and Mos would still be here.

So yes.. Melo was the gun and it was Dolan pointing it at Walsh. NJ got a better player an ensured the Knicks pay through the roof.

I'm glad you support Melo! Tell him to lift some weights!

Melo saying he was getting his money didn't mean they had to pull the trigger. At the end of the day the Knicks decided that Melo was worth the price, wether it was Dolan alone or with input from MDA and DW. If it weren't for the new CBA coming up I really believe Melo would have waited for free agency.

nyshakespeare wrote:It really grinds my gears when I hear that Carmelo gets angry
when he hears that some say we gave up too much for him. Quit
bitching and leave it all on the court. Lead by example. If you
miss a shot don't look at the refs to bail you out. Get back to at
least pretend you're playing defense.

i agree with u on that, but to be fair shouldn't u also be calling out Amare for doing the same? wasn't he also complaining about not getting calls & not getting back on defense in recent games? instead of collecting all those techical fouls he's been getting all year costing us points i think Stat could also be doing a much better job of leading by example, don't u?

TMS wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:It really grinds my gears when I hear that Carmelo gets angry
when he hears that some say we gave up too much for him. Quit
bitching and leave it all on the court. Lead by example. If you
miss a shot don't look at the refs to bail you out. Get back to at
least pretend you're playing defense.

i agree with u on that, but to be fair shouldn't u also be calling out Amare for doing the same? wasn't he also complaining about not getting calls & not getting back on defense in recent games? instead of collecting all those techical fouls he's been getting all year costing us points i think Stat could also be doing a much better job of leading by example, don't u?

nah. T, it only makes sense that it's all on carmelo now. just like it was all on amear at the beginning of the season. when you commit $65M over 3 to a guy and give a lot of players up for him it only makes sense that his play and his impact on the team and his leadership and his willingness to say hop on my shoulders guys becomes the focus. pre-trade some compared him to bernard. i say go bernard on us i'm ready. or a record-setting consecutive 30 point amear would do equally as well. Especially if you can replicate the winning streak.

We gave up our entire bench in that trade. It is admitted. CB is looking rusty since that game in Orlando when he got a little to acquainted with Dwight Howard's knee. Melo is claiming his shooting rights. Amare isn't nearly as demanding. We have no center. Fields is not nearly as effective with those three on the court.

But, it comes down to this: you cannot trade 50% of your team mid-season and expect a seamless transition. Especially when part of that trade is your starting point guard.

So, did we give up too much? Probably. I think we could have done better. Our season is really about next season now, not this season.

But if, (and this is a series of "ifs")

1) If CB can recover and learn the Knicks offense and the Knicks can sign Chauncey to a cap-friendly extension.
2) If Ronnie Turiaf either exercises his player option or signs a moderate extension (not to be the starting C, but to be the defensive presence off the bench)
3) If TD can translate his swagger when in the starting lineup to the role when he comes off the bench?
4) If Fields can learn to compliment the trio of CB, Melo and Mar'e
5) If the new collective bargaining agreement allows the Knicks to (i) sign a "mid-level" free agent and (ii) sign veteran's to a minimum contract
6) If the Knicks can make a value selection with their draft pick this year

Then: I think the real value of this trade may be realized. But, there are a lot of ifs and we have a half constructed roster. Consider Melo and Stat the foundation of the next 5 years. Next year should be considerably different.

Marv wrote:

TMS wrote:

Marv wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:It really grinds my gears when I hear that Carmelo gets angry
when he hears that some say we gave up too much for him. Quit
bitching and leave it all on the court. Lead by example. If you
miss a shot don't look at the refs to bail you out. Get back to at
least pretend you're playing defense.

i agree with u on that, but to be fair shouldn't u also be calling out Amare for doing the same? wasn't he also complaining about not getting calls & not getting back on defense in recent games? instead of collecting all those techical fouls he's been getting all year costing us points i think Stat could also be doing a much better job of leading by example, don't u?

nah. T, it only makes sense that it's all on carmelo now. just like it was all on amear at the beginning of the season. when you commit $65M over 3 to a guy and give a lot of players up for him it only makes sense that his play and his impact on the team and his leadership and his willingness to say hop on my shoulders guys becomes the focus. pre-trade some compared him to bernard. i say go bernard on us i'm ready. or a record-setting consecutive 30 point amear would do equally as well. Especially if you can replicate the winning streak.

no doubt Marv, i realize Melo's got a lot of pressure on him as he should have, he's a big boy i'm not trying to shield him from any criticism... i definitely hoped he'd be playing better than he's playing now too same goes for Billups but realize things aren't as grim as people make them out to be, that's just me... with all that hoopla that was created & all that we gave up to get Melo here i don't blame people at all for having high expectations... but when i watch the games i see Stat committing alot of mistakes that Melo gets killed for it's a little hypocritical to me for people to give him a pass for it.

it's all terribly disappointing. i jumped all over the melo wagon when he got here, especially since i love chauncey. 6-3 was a good start and melo was playing great. we had all those easy games coming up. wtf has happened???

i love Chauncey too, still do... i think he's figuring things out he's gonna get it together... dude has been good anywhere he's ever played he was balling at a high level in Denver before the trade was made i don't buy that this is what we have with him the past couple games where he looked like Chris Duhon after a night of heavy partying... 1 encouraging thing is TD looked pretty good starting games when Billups was injured that experience might help him as we move forward w/this roster... i think Billups' tutoring TD has had a noticeable impact TD made it a point to say he follows Billups around & talks to him all the time about basketball... TD still needs work on his shooting consistency & his decision making down the stretch of games but he's gotten a lot better at leading the offense since Billups arrived IMO.

Vmart wrote:This is the best trade the Knicks have ever made. Everyone needs to chillax and take it easy.

HAhahahahaHA!!

thank you. i needed a laugh.

Marv wrote:

TMS wrote:

Marv wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyshakespeare wrote:It really grinds my gears when I hear that Carmelo gets angry
when he hears that some say we gave up too much for him. Quit
bitching and leave it all on the court. Lead by example. If you
miss a shot don't look at the refs to bail you out. Get back to at
least pretend you're playing defense.

i agree with u on that, but to be fair shouldn't u also be calling out Amare for doing the same? wasn't he also complaining about not getting calls & not getting back on defense in recent games? instead of collecting all those techical fouls he's been getting all year costing us points i think Stat could also be doing a much better job of leading by example, don't u?

nah. T, it only makes sense that it's all on carmelo now. just like it was all on amear at the beginning of the season. when you commit $65M over 3 to a guy and give a lot of players up for him it only makes sense that his play and his impact on the team and his leadership and his willingness to say hop on my shoulders guys becomes the focus. pre-trade some compared him to bernard. i say go bernard on us i'm ready. or a record-setting consecutive 30 point amear would do equally as well. Especially if you can replicate the winning streak.

no doubt Marv, i realize Melo's got a lot of pressure on him as he should have, he's a big boy i'm not trying to shield him from any criticism... i definitely hoped he'd be playing better than he's playing now too same goes for Billups but realize things aren't as grim as people make them out to be, that's just me... with all that hoopla that was created & all that we gave up to get Melo here i don't blame people at all for having high expectations... but when i watch the games i see Stat committing alot of mistakes that Melo gets killed for it's a little hypocritical to me for people to give him a pass for it.

it's all terribly disappointing. i jumped all over the melo wagon when he got here, especially since i love chauncey. 6-3 was a good start and melo was playing great. we had all those easy games coming up. wtf has happened???

I think we all jumped on the Melo wagon too soon and the wagon wasn't ready to carry all our weight and now we have to move slowly until we get to Home Depot and get a bigger wagon. Yes, sh!t happens.

nixluva wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

islesfan wrote:The problem was hiring Antoni 3 years ago. Knicks need to hire a head coach who understands that defense is what wins. Always has, always will.

That says it all. We won't win until defense is part of the equation. seems like 9 year old being told to eat his vegetables whenver the subject is defense.

This is a childish post. In what way has Mike acted resistant to defense?

OCTOBER 5, 2010 10:25 AM3 COMMENTS
Knicks focus on defense thanks to Dan D'Antoni
BY FRANK ISOLA

PARIS - Dan D'Antoni's voice is being heard more and more in training camp and it's usually when the Knicks are working on defense.

It's a welcomed sight for a team that has struggled defensively the past few years. Mike D'Antoni likely asked his older brother to get more involved in practice and in games. In fact, during Sunday's first preseason game Dan D'Antoni was more vocal than usual.

It doesn't mean that Dan, 62, holds the title of defensive coach but it's clearly one of the main responsibilities for a coach that won 500 games as head coach of Socastee HS in Myrtle Beach, S.C.

The Knicks have four guards that are all sound defensively, particularly Toney Douglas. Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler and rookie Landry Fields also share a defensive mindset.

The frontcourt could be a problem depending on how well both Anthony Randolph and rookie Timofey Mozgov progress. Randolph gives the Knicks a shot blocking presence and Mozgov gives them strength and size in the paint.

The question is will the Knicks practice defense all year long or will it just be a training camp phenomenon. The San Antonio Spurs are a team that will spend every practice working on their pick-and-roll coverage and such. The D'Antoni Knicks, however, don't have a history of doing that. But with 10 new players on the roster and the fans - and front office - clamoring for a playoff berth, things could be changing. The more you hear Dan yelling the better it will be for the Knicks.

From day one Mike has been pushing the team to get better defensively. The offense was actually behind the defense at the start of the year. This team wasn't built to be strong defensively and on the boards and we knew that coming into the season. This is just year 1 of the process of rebuilding this team, so it's understandable that things still need to be addressed with the makeup of the roster. Especially considering the cost of getting Melo.

I find it odd that with all his supposed lack of focus on D, he was able to keep the Suns playing well enough on D to win a ton of games. He had Nash and STAT in the middle of his D and no real size and yet they were never in the bottom half of the league on D. So at some point you have to look beyond just saying he doesn't coach D.

October 5, 2010

Before that, we had crappy defense. After that date, we still have crappy defense. I don't care if hearing Dan D'Antoni means they are working on defense because it seems like whatever he is teaching/planning hasn't worked for the last three years.

I like Mike's open floor and ball movement offense, but defense has always been an issue with his teams, whether they play average or below. I'd be more than happy if he gets a new assistant coach who brings a new strategy on defense and demands accountability on that end of the floor. Now, if Mike is too stubborn to make this change and the results remain like they've been in the last 3 years, it becomes easier to see him go.

Knicksfan wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JesseDark wrote:

islesfan wrote:The problem was hiring Antoni 3 years ago. Knicks need to hire a head coach who understands that defense is what wins. Always has, always will.

That says it all. We won't win until defense is part of the equation. seems like 9 year old being told to eat his vegetables whenver the subject is defense.

This is a childish post. In what way has Mike acted resistant to defense?

OCTOBER 5, 2010 10:25 AM3 COMMENTS
Knicks focus on defense thanks to Dan D'Antoni
BY FRANK ISOLA

PARIS - Dan D'Antoni's voice is being heard more and more in training camp and it's usually when the Knicks are working on defense.

It's a welcomed sight for a team that has struggled defensively the past few years. Mike D'Antoni likely asked his older brother to get more involved in practice and in games. In fact, during Sunday's first preseason game Dan D'Antoni was more vocal than usual.

It doesn't mean that Dan, 62, holds the title of defensive coach but it's clearly one of the main responsibilities for a coach that won 500 games as head coach of Socastee HS in Myrtle Beach, S.C.

The Knicks have four guards that are all sound defensively, particularly Toney Douglas. Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler and rookie Landry Fields also share a defensive mindset.

The frontcourt could be a problem depending on how well both Anthony Randolph and rookie Timofey Mozgov progress. Randolph gives the Knicks a shot blocking presence and Mozgov gives them strength and size in the paint.

The question is will the Knicks practice defense all year long or will it just be a training camp phenomenon. The San Antonio Spurs are a team that will spend every practice working on their pick-and-roll coverage and such. The D'Antoni Knicks, however, don't have a history of doing that. But with 10 new players on the roster and the fans - and front office - clamoring for a playoff berth, things could be changing. The more you hear Dan yelling the better it will be for the Knicks.

From day one Mike has been pushing the team to get better defensively. The offense was actually behind the defense at the start of the year. This team wasn't built to be strong defensively and on the boards and we knew that coming into the season. This is just year 1 of the process of rebuilding this team, so it's understandable that things still need to be addressed with the makeup of the roster. Especially considering the cost of getting Melo.

I find it odd that with all his supposed lack of focus on D, he was able to keep the Suns playing well enough on D to win a ton of games. He had Nash and STAT in the middle of his D and no real size and yet they were never in the bottom half of the league on D. So at some point you have to look beyond just saying he doesn't coach D.

October 5, 2010

Before that, we had crappy defense. After that date, we still have crappy defense. I don't care if hearing Dan D'Antoni means they are working on defense because it seems like whatever he is teaching/planning hasn't worked for the last three years.

I like Mike's open floor and ball movement offense, but defense has always been an issue with his teams, whether they play average or below. I'd be more than happy if he gets a new assistant coach who brings a new strategy on defense and demands accountability on that end of the floor. Now, if Mike is too stubborn to make this change and the results remain like they've been in the last 3 years, it becomes easier to see him go.

You realize that if we played defense at the same level that his Suns did, we'd be a 50 win team!!! You can make fun of it, but we haven't ever been 13, 15 or even 17th in the league on D. If we were at that level right now, we wouldn't be losing games. I don't think it's 100% a coaching thing. Guys have to take responsibility for what they do and too many of the players we have don't do that and never have. The guys we have that are known for D, actually defend all the time. Then we have the guys who have never been known to defend and lo and behold those are the guys that keep messing up.

As much as people bash Mike, IMO you simply don't get to two WCF's if you don't play any D. It's impossible.