TMS wrote:

CashMoney wrote:All I'm saying is that Mozgov is far from a lock to be a stud. People on this board act like the guy was the second coming of Ewing. You can either catch a ball or you can't and he can't catch a ball. He has a nice touch around the rim but he's never going to be a banger. Soft 7 footers with bad hands are a dime a dozen, who cares if the dime a dozen is Russian or not.

completely agree... i would be shocked to see Mozgov develop into much more than a poorman's Chris Kaman in his early years, a high energy C that will eventually get more comfortable using his midrange J & get better at his boxing out in the paint to grab boards, but i don't think he's ever gonna be a star C in the NBA... if he ever averages a double double over a full season i'd be extremely impressed.

Star? no. Starter? Yes.

I guess this is why there's so much discrepancy over him, we have different standards of success for a guy off the radar and the last piece included to round out a deal.

But if he's such a nobody, why was Denver insistent on getting him and Walsh so reluctant?

The dude is nothing more than a prospect, but none the less, a promising fleet footed 7-footer (with girth) given up by a team that has no center.

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

CashMoney wrote:All I'm saying is that Mozgov is far from a lock to be a stud. People on this board act like the guy was the second coming of Ewing. You can either catch a ball or you can't and he can't catch a ball. He has a nice touch around the rim but he's never going to be a banger. Soft 7 footers with bad hands are a dime a dozen, who cares if the dime a dozen is Russian or not.

completely agree... i would be shocked to see Mozgov develop into much more than a poorman's Chris Kaman in his early years, a high energy C that will eventually get more comfortable using his midrange J & get better at his boxing out in the paint to grab boards, but i don't think he's ever gonna be a star C in the NBA... if he ever averages a double double over a full season i'd be extremely impressed.

Agree also..The guy was given ample opportunity, esp early on, and he flopped..No ifs, ands or buts...For the money we payed him (equivalent to the 7th/8th pick in the NBA draft) he was a flop..No way did this guy ever resembled a top 10 pick..I honestly hope he makes it one day but I don't see it for a good while..In the meantime, we can do a lot better, even on the cheap..I consider it a blessing that we unloaded that salary. Denver did us a favor with him if you ask me.

How can you call someone a flop through his first season, where he didn't even get to play that much? When I see him play, he had great court awareness, and was sturdy and did not back down (ok, except for that Blake Griffin dunk!!).

To make a team championship caliber, you need to underpay for talent. He was one of the few ways we could have done that. And Walsh didn't even use a draft pick, just superior scouting.

It was a lost opportunity.

Please cite one example where a poster mentioned Ewing and Mozgov in the same sentence. Just one. Pretty Please.

CashMoney: "(Mozgov) has a nice touch around the rim but he's never going to be a banger."

I have a huge issue with placing an arbitrary ceiling on any player who has played under 500 minutes.

Sheesh, can he at least get unpacked?

The PG situation as of right now is unresolved but the future looks bright..Step 1 is to pick up Chauncey's contract for next year..I'd do that right now actually..Make him happy and make him feel wanted..As for Alan Hahn's take that we should think about extending him beyond next year, I wouldn't go that far but I'd definitely pick him up for next year..Dude's a big-time vet PG, in the same conversation with Nash and Kidd at this stage in all 3 of their careers (Mr. Bigshot's actually younger than these guys--he's got Nash by two years I believe, Kidd by 3)..I think we have to offer him next year--I'm not ready to give the keys to TD fulltime. TD may never be that kind of lead guard--I like him right where he is: coming off the bench backing up a superior player. Bring back Chauncey next year and then see what happens the following summer..With Amar'e and Melo now headlining the team, I'd like to think we'd have a better than average chance of attracting a CP3 or a Deron Williams to come play here..And if that doesn't happen, Ray Felton and even Chauncey Billups wouldn't be bad secondary choices to run the team (maybe then we decide Chauncey's worth bringing back on a 2-year deal at say $8.5M a year which is what Kidd's looking at right now) Or maybe we decide to go a different direction and throw big money at a solid FA big (see below)..As of right now though, I don't see how we commit more than the 1 year to Billups..Use Chauncey as the bridge to possibly upgrade to a younger tier 1 PG in the summer of 2012..Makes perfect sense to me.

After picking up Chauncey's option, we're pretty much right at the cap..I say be very careful about evoking the MLE---we've seen it before---it's death for a team that doesn't use it wisely..DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol are nice players but if we overpay to get them, that's it. That's the team for the most part. No more major moves to follow..And we have to factor in paying Landry Fields as well..Summer of 2012 we're looking at Billups & Turiaf coming off the cap for about $18.5M total. Say we extend Fields for $7M a pop long-term. Then we're looking at roughly $11-12M remaining in cap room..Hopefully the cap ceiling rises a little by then -- so maybe we're really looking at $14-16M open by then (maybe we get Fields for a little less than 7/year too)..That's the cap money I'm looking to preserve..We bring in a DeAndre Jordan for $7-8M say or a Marc Gasol for $8-10M per say (it'll probably take more than that for each guy), we won't have any cap flexibility to do anything major in the summer of 2012. That's the reality..Granted some of these guys are pie in the sky for us (Dwight Howard, Russell Westbrook for example--I can't picture either going anywhere, esp. Westbrook) but here's the list of notable 2012 FAs that we may be interested in (just concentrating on bigs and PGs for now):

Dwight Howard (UFA, player option for $19.26M)
Andrew Bynum (UFA, team option for $16.1M---do they pick that up with his injury history? Probably but who knows?)
Kevin Love (RFA)
Brook Lopez (RFA)
Roy Hibbert (RFA)
Javale McGee (RFA)
Marcus Camby (UFA)
Darrell Arthur (RFA)
Michael Beasley (RFA)
Elton Brand (UFA)
Danilo Gallinari (RFA)

Deron Williams (UFA, player option for $17.77M)
Russell Westbrook (RFA)
Chris Paul (UFA, player option for $17.77M)
Chauncey Billups (UFA)
Steve Nash (UFA)
Jason Kidd (UFA)
Ray Felton (UFA)
OJ Mayo (RFA)
Andre Miller (UFA)

A lot of legit C types (better options than DeAndre Jordan & Marc Gasol if you ask me) and lead guards (most of the leagues top PGs actually) on that list..I wanna see us be in on that list..We sign a DeAndre Jordan or a Marc Gasol long-term, forget all about those guys..Simple as that. And I have my doubts whether either signing would put us on a championship level anyway..In order to preserve that cap space, I say we look to bring in draft picks and minimum level/1-yr contract type players for next year and then reassess at the end of the season. Why can't we improve the team next year by grabbing a 1st rounder around 19, purchasing 2 2nd rounders with cash and/or assets and sign another 3 minimum level FAs to help fill out the roster?? I think we could:

SG Marshon Brooks @ 19 = $1.4M, 1.5M the following year
SF Chandler Parsons @ 35-40 = $700K, $750K
SG Jon Diebler @ 40-45 = $650K, $700K
C Jerome Jordan = $700K
C Marcus Cousin = $700K (I think he's just a placeholder in Utah for now until Millsap returns. I think he'll be available this summer)
PF Jeff Adrien = $700K (maybe just a placeholder as well. Also should be available I'm thinking. Not as interested in drafting a Kenneth Faried if I know Adrien's on board btw)
SF DeShawn Sims = $700K

That's only $5.55M for 7 talented players (players that dramatically improve our overall team depth), some of which we wouldn't be obligated to bring back the following year if we decided against it..Point is we have to be smart about how we do things now..Improve the team while maintaining as much cap flexibility as possible for 2012 -- that's the ticket if you ask me. I might be a little off with the money but more or less, this is the type of plan I'd adhere to for now. No shame in it whatsoever. This summer's not gonna be the time to strike in FA; the following offseason will be.

1. Take a risk and hope to sign Melo as a free agent. This means Wilson Chandler isn't signed, we don't get Billups and Felton is our PG of the (near) future.

2. Ignore Melo, re-sign Wil, keep our core and spend money on role players in 2011.

3. Save up our money for a run at the 2012 class.

1: Obviously there is much risk in the first gamble, if Melo is a player Walsh truly wanted. There's a chance he'd either sign his extension or go elsewhere. And is Felton really an upgrade over a healthy Billups? Wil would be gone anyway, leaving us with Moz and Gallo. Are those guys the missing pieces?

2: If the team currently constituted is destined for first round disappointment, what would a modified team with Amare as the workhorse bring us? And if he goes down to injury?

3: Isn't scenario 3 the same gamble as 2010 was, the only difference being we essentially wasted two years of STAT's prime?

There are potential flaws no matter what Walsh does, yes? Or is there an airtight other scenario I'm missing?

fishmike wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

mreinman wrote:I love Mozgov's help Defense. Way underrated. Though too many fouls called on him. He actually has a pretty smoth shot. I think he can with things falling his way a Rik Smitts type of game with better Defense and overall athletisism.

Rautins taken before Fields was political and did not make any difference.

Good GM's get lucky.

Moz to Smits is a far reach. Maybe Moz is closer to Felton Spencer.

loving your eval... I wonder what you thought of Jermaine Oneil after 4 years? Please.. youre just riding Melo's jock and could care less about anything that got him here. Its fine... so what kind of team are we building around our pair of elite scoring forwards?

It was only a matter of time before someone on the thread needed to establish how right they are about Melo's greatness, but thats not the point of this thread. The point is I want to hear how we are building a contender.

In donnie we trust!

I'm not a GM and have no idea what the salary cap is going to be until the next CBA and don't know who we're going to draft. I also don't know what players will be available during the season next year come trade time, who can be traded for on the cheap and who the Knicks are bringing back next year. I prefer to watch the team we now have and not jump to conclusions after 11 games into a new roster. 9 staright losing seasons and we're supposed to contend for a title next year?

BlueSeats wrote:

TMS wrote:

CashMoney wrote:All I'm saying is that Mozgov is far from a lock to be a stud. People on this board act like the guy was the second coming of Ewing. You can either catch a ball or you can't and he can't catch a ball. He has a nice touch around the rim but he's never going to be a banger. Soft 7 footers with bad hands are a dime a dozen, who cares if the dime a dozen is Russian or not.

completely agree... i would be shocked to see Mozgov develop into much more than a poorman's Chris Kaman in his early years, a high energy C that will eventually get more comfortable using his midrange J & get better at his boxing out in the paint to grab boards, but i don't think he's ever gonna be a star C in the NBA... if he ever averages a double double over a full season i'd be extremely impressed.

Star? no. Starter? Yes.

I guess this is why there's so much discrepancy over him, we have different standards of success for a guy off the radar and the last piece included to round out a deal.

But if he's such a nobody, why was Denver insistent on getting him and Walsh so reluctant?

The dude is nothing more than a prospect, but none the less, a promising fleet footed 7-footer (with girth) given up by a team that has no center.

i didn't say he's a nobody i just feel he's got a long ways to go to be a viable starting C option i don't think we have the time to wait trying to develop this kid i'd rather have someone a more seasoned basketball skillset or at the very least someone who will play a little angry in the paint & not be so timid... very early on in the season i think it was pretty apparent he needed a lot of work on his game, offensive recognition in terms of where he should be on the floor, he was often caught getting in the way of Stat trying to work in the paint either TD or Felton would have to shoo him out of the post in order to get a play going... plus i think he's got pretty horrible hands it's almost like he's trying to get up the shot before he's even secured it in his hands a lot of times, that's something he needs to work on as well... i like his athleticism & he seemed like a good kid all around but to be honest i would much much rather have someone with a nasty streak in them playing the C position... if we can nab Deandre Jordan away from the Clips i'd be cool with that this summer but i don't think we have a realistic shot at him & even he's still a major project... if Timo develops into something more that's great but no way am i letting him be a holdup to a deal to get Melo & Chauncey to NY

CashMoney wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

mreinman wrote:I love Mozgov's help Defense. Way underrated. Though too many fouls called on him. He actually has a pretty smoth shot. I think he can with things falling his way a Rik Smitts type of game with better Defense and overall athletisism.

Rautins taken before Fields was political and did not make any difference.

Good GM's get lucky.

Moz to Smits is a far reach. Maybe Moz is closer to Felton Spencer.

loving your eval... I wonder what you thought of Jermaine Oneil after 4 years? Please.. youre just riding Melo's jock and could care less about anything that got him here. Its fine... so what kind of team are we building around our pair of elite scoring forwards?

It was only a matter of time before someone on the thread needed to establish how right they are about Melo's greatness, but thats not the point of this thread. The point is I want to hear how we are building a contender.

In donnie we trust!

I'm not a GM and have no idea what the salary cap is going to be until the next CBA and don't know who we're going to draft. I also don't know what players will be available during the season next year come trade time, who can be traded for on the cheap and who the Knicks are bringing back next year. I prefer to watch the team we now have and not jump to conclusions after 11 games into a new roster. 9 staright losing seasons and we're supposed to contend for a title next year?