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How about our draft pick + Billups
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RonRon
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3/10/2011  1:49 PM
I like Billups and I would also be willing to add him back in 2012 with the MLD if we fill our other needs/holes.
It's nothing against Billups but we must fill our other needs/holes.
Billups uses up a lot of our cap room, with Amare and Melo.
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Finestrg
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3/10/2011  2:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/10/2011  2:05 PM
Either Billups or Nash (possibly an upgrade but debatable at this point) acts as a temporary bridge to get to the summer of 2012..Just keep Billups for that purpose AND the pick..We're fine here for now, esp. with TD stepping up..Why sacrifice the pick that we eventually turn into a rotation piece?
Marv
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3/10/2011  2:05 PM
Killa4luv wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Why?

Just answer me...why?

Why wouldnt you want the best PG in the NBA? This is a win now team. Are you comparing Billups to Nash? Nash still has MVP numbers on a team of renegades. He will still be 15-11 50% for 3 more years with a team like we have.

3 things.

1. 15 and 11 are not and never have been MVP numbers.

2. Steve Nash is not the best PG in the NBA.

3. Nash is 37. He does not have 3 more years that we would give away a pick for. Chauncey is a much better fit for our team.

lol you are still harping on this!!

we've had the same arguments about this on this board since 2006

i even know your next line: "if jason kidd didn't get the mvp...."

crzymdups
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3/10/2011  2:09 PM
I agree that the Knicks have to be thinking about waiving Chauncey.

They could chase Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler with the $10-12M in cap room this summer AND draft a point guard like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight or Ben Hansbrough to back up Toney. And keep Anthony Carter around for insurance.

Toney Douglas / Brandon Knight / Anthony Carter
Landry Fields / AC / Bill Walker
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / Jared Jeffries
Marc Gasol / Turiaf

They'd still have some flexibility to add a piece or two when Turiaf's deal expired...

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BRIGGS
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3/10/2011  2:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/10/2011  2:20 PM
crzymdups wrote:I agree that the Knicks have to be thinking about waiving Chauncey.

They could chase Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler with the $10-12M in cap room this summer AND draft a point guard like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight or Ben Hansbrough to back up Toney. And keep Anthony Carter around for insurance.

Toney Douglas / Brandon Knight / Anthony Carter
Landry Fields / AC / Bill Walker
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / Jared Jeffries
Marc Gasol / Turiaf

They'd still have some flexibility to add a piece or two when Turiaf's deal expired...

ctyz--its absolutely not a bad option. i was actually goinjg to just post--what about just waving Billups--taking a PG in the draft retaining a vetPG for 1mm and starting douglas--THEN you have monhey to spend to improve the team's bench and starting C position. Billuops is way too much money..


How much do the Lakers pay Fisher--we dont need another star player--we need a bench like dallas now!!!

By the way the people who think this deal would be bad--you use draft picks to improve. Nash is a fairly large step up from Billups . That being said I think the waiving option might be the best play especially if TD continues like this.

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fishmike
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3/10/2011  2:23 PM
crzymdups wrote:I agree that the Knicks have to be thinking about waiving Chauncey.

They could chase Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler with the $10-12M in cap room this summer AND draft a point guard like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight or Ben Hansbrough to back up Toney. And keep Anthony Carter around for insurance.

Toney Douglas / Brandon Knight / Anthony Carter
Landry Fields / AC / Bill Walker
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / Jared Jeffries
Marc Gasol / Turiaf

They'd still have some flexibility to add a piece or two when Turiaf's deal expired...

Gasol (weight) and Chandler (health) both scare me some. We need a center, and I have no idea who is available. Mosgov was looking like a long term solution and everyone laughed at Walsh for signing him.

Billup's contract is VERY enticing becasue you can trade him for a lot of $$$ worth of player then excercise that buyout no? Or does that have to be picked up before the draft. Timing is everything

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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3/10/2011  2:24 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I agree that the Knicks have to be thinking about waiving Chauncey.

They could chase Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler with the $10-12M in cap room this summer AND draft a point guard like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight or Ben Hansbrough to back up Toney. And keep Anthony Carter around for insurance.

Toney Douglas / Brandon Knight / Anthony Carter
Landry Fields / AC / Bill Walker
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / Jared Jeffries
Marc Gasol / Turiaf

They'd still have some flexibility to add a piece or two when Turiaf's deal expired...

ctyz--its absolutely not a bad option. i was actually goinjg to just post--what about just waving Billups--taking a PG in the draft retaining a vetPG for 1mm and starting douglas--THEN you have monhey to spend to improve the team's bench and starting C position. Billuops is way too much money..


How much do the Lakers pay Fisher--we dont need another star player--we need a bench like dallas now!!!

By the way the people who think this deal would be bad--you use draft picks to improve. Nash is a fairly large step up from Billups . That being said I think the waiving option might be the best play especially if TD continues like this.

Realistically though, what guys are out there to improve your starting C and bench that would offset 1) releasing Billups (which would include both having him as a player and on-court PG coach) and 2) being out of the Deron/CP3/Dwight market?

doesn't seem worth it.

If the Knicks were absolutely in line for a top flight PG in draft *and* had a 100% realistic shot at MGasol or a certified healthy Tyson Chandler, I would do it, but that's an enormous stretch.

Knicks have to decide on Chauncy 5 days after their last game, way before the draft and FA market opens.

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RonRon
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3/10/2011  2:42 PM
add Mo Williams, Tony Parker, to the list of PGs.

Even Wilson Chandler.

I all know we need quality centers if we want to be true contenders. As great as Billups is, we have other needs to fill.
I think we can live without him with the way TD has been playing.

Yes Tyson Chandler and Gasol have injuries problems, but most centers in the league that are true centers have it too, with exception to Dwight Howard.
Thats why I asked would we be better if we went with quality or quantity...

With Turiaf and Billups contracts we can have about 15m cap room possibly add

Mo Williams
Dalembert
Prizbilla

or

Yao Ming
Prizbilla
Wilson Chandler

there are varieties we can realistically bargain hunt with.

we would have about 15m to spend if we go that route, there are a lot of holes we can fill. Some with the veteran min and some with the cap room.

toodarkmark
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3/10/2011  2:44 PM
Totally disagree. Waiving Chauncy Billups is a sure sign of insanity. Chauncy is a former Finals MVP. Chauncy is a leader and an All Star. Chauncy might be a head coach someday and is so, so important to our young guys and even to A'mare and Melo in the playoffs. I would pay him ANYTHING to stay with us until he retires.

And you want to use his money on Chandler who said he hates playing in the North, or Marc Gasol who has never done ANYTHING in this league?

It frustrates me when people look at things like it's all fantasy league stuff, when you have to consider these are human beings, and there is so much more that goes into it then just "Oh we need a Center who is available." "We ate getting good production from a backup player for a bit, let's get rid of the other guy." Kemba Walker would be a nice pickup, and I trade Toney Douglas for a backup Center. I would NEVER consider waiving a LEADER like Chauncy. Notice how good Toney started playing AFTER Chauncy started mentoring him? Exactly.

crzymdups wrote:I agree that the Knicks have to be thinking about waiving Chauncey.

They could chase Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler with the $10-12M in cap room this summer AND draft a point guard like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight or Ben Hansbrough to back up Toney. And keep Anthony Carter around for insurance.

Toney Douglas / Brandon Knight / Anthony Carter
Landry Fields / AC / Bill Walker
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / Jared Jeffries
Marc Gasol / Turiaf

They'd still have some flexibility to add a piece or two when Turiaf's deal expired...

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Marv
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3/10/2011  2:45 PM
let's give this team a chance to see how it performs with billups. my prediction is that a lot of you guys are going to end up wanting to hold onto him.
SupremeCommander
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3/10/2011  2:47 PM
Marv wrote:let's give this team a chance to see how it performs with billups. my prediction is that a lot of you guys are going to end up wanting to hold onto him.

they'll want to hold him, but only after they've severely beaten him for a while

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Marv
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3/10/2011  2:50 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Marv wrote:let's give this team a chance to see how it performs with billups. my prediction is that a lot of you guys are going to end up wanting to hold onto him.

they'll want to hold him, but only after they've severely beaten him for a while

ha

fishmike
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3/10/2011  3:16 PM
Billups is a great basketball guy and his path in the NBA and what he's accomplished is equally great. He's a true champ. He's also old. While the Knicks are in win now mode if I could take a step backwards to take a few steps forward by moving CB you have to look at that. Derek Harper was only here two years, yet it feels like he had a much longer impact. I hope CB can be like that as well.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Ira
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3/10/2011  3:44 PM
I'm not as high on Chauncy as some, but as I understand it, you don't get any more cap room when you waive a player.
RonRon
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3/10/2011  3:51 PM
we all love Billups as a player and leader. Unfortunately for this team we have way more holes to fill if we want to be true contenders. We don't have the luxury of having CB, I am sure he would do wonders on a contending team and could eventually even hurt us in a playoff match. But on our team, lets be realistic, JJ is our starting center and our intimidator.
If we can add a player like Dalmembert with the MLE, and Kris Humphries/ Prizbilla with the bi annual exception you might have an arguement. We don't have a 6th man role that Shawne William is somewhat playing right now. And even he is due for a raise.
We are built to win now, Billups takes up 14m of the cap room. We have to add depth, fill holes, and he is just the odd man out.

Point is with 15m cap room, we can fill all of these needs. We need a core like the Lakers, Boston, where they have roles for players. We can't sign a player for 1 year deal for the next summer and then let him bail on us the following year, like how Shawn Williams probably will.

We need a core with consistency, set roles, and set contracts so they can look to WIN, not achieve individual stats so they can earn themselves a contract.
Some roles can be filled with 1 year min deals but NOT ALL OF THEM.
In 2012, Fields will need a new contract, none of us mind in going over the cap to sign him.
But if we are looking to sign a 3rd "star" that year, we have to let him walk for nothing.
If we go all in this summer, we can keep Fields and just go over the cap.

We need

a CENTER
back up center

6th man player that can play the 2-3

a starting PG(can be TD)or a backup PG

we have

/ Jerome Jordan(which probably is a 3rd string center till he improves in a couple years)
Amare / JJ (assuming he will sign the vet min)
Melo
Fields (who could walk in 2012)
TD (showing flashes that he can be the starting PG right now and has a great deal locked him for 3 more years or can be back up)

Turiaf *can opt out for longer deal*
Walker
Rautins
Balkman

So we need a starting Center, another back up Center, a 6th man player like Wilson Chandler/Odom, another PG(starting or back up)
We can't fill these roles with min deals. That is why so many of us didn't like this Melo trade, cause we gave up too much. Now we have too many holes to fill.
We have to fill these holes and Billups and Turiaf's contract can do it.

I believe, the point in a player like

Tyson Chandler in teaming up defensively
TD
Fields
even Amare's help D

Chandler will allow TD and the rest of the players to playing better team defense.
When TD cheats, his guy drives pass him and goes straight in to Tyson Chandler.
He would be our anchor on our team defense.
Would allow us to conserve energy + stamina, have a defensive state of mind and presence, and allow some players to focus more on OFFENSE.
Most importantly he will give us stops when needed most.
Instead of being up 10 and losing our lead, not being able to close out games, we can play defense.
We have to stop trying to outscore our opponents to win games, we HAVE TO MAKE STOPS!

I believe TD will become a great defender. He is playing without a STARTING CALIBER DEFENSIVE C, he will improve.
Chandler will allow TD to playing better defense, I believe he will have a multiple effect on this team.
Amare will become a better defender as well, cause he wont be our best shot blocker, Chandler will be his anchor too.

Look at what he has done to Dallas's defense, and they still have 2 legit big men in Haywood too.
He does many things STATS dont show.
He is a veteran big, knows his role.
He DOESNT NEED the ball to be effective, in fact, he can get OFFENSIVE BOARDS, RB, STOPS that can change our momentum.
a player like Kris Humphries and Joel Prizbilla can put up similar numbers but their game is no where like what Chandler brings.
Even if we pick up Tyson Chandler, I would mimic Dallas and try to pick another good defensive big as well.

examples of some min deals we can get and how they would look

When Melo or Amare sit

Tyson Chandler
Amare
Barnes
Fields
Delone West

Tyson Chandler
Melo
Barnes
Fields
TD

JJ
Amare
Barnes
West
TD

A starting caliber defensive big Center can allow us to play many different styles.
Deandre Jordan can fill this role too and he is still young. He will have a higher ceiling but he will lack the veteran leadership of Chandler.


misterearl
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3/10/2011  3:57 PM
toodarkmark wrote:Totally disagree. Waiving Chauncy Billups is a sure sign of insanity. Chauncy is a former Finals MVP. Chauncy is a leader and an All Star. Chauncy might be a head coach someday and is so, so important to our young guys and even to A'mare and Melo in the playoffs. I would pay him ANYTHING to stay with us until he retires.

And you want to use his money on Chandler who said he hates playing in the North, or Marc Gasol who has never done ANYTHING in this league?

It frustrates me when people look at things like it's all fantasy league stuff, when you have to consider these are human beings, and there is so much more that goes into it then just "Oh we need a Center who is available." "We ate getting good production from a backup player for a bit, let's get rid of the other guy." Kemba Walker would be a nice pickup, and I trade Toney Douglas for a backup Center. I would NEVER consider waiving a LEADER like Chauncy. Notice how good Toney started playing AFTER Chauncy started mentoring him? Exactly.

crzymdups wrote:I agree that the Knicks have to be thinking about waiving Chauncey.

They could chase Marc Gasol or Tyson Chandler with the $10-12M in cap room this summer AND draft a point guard like Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight or Ben Hansbrough to back up Toney. And keep Anthony Carter around for insurance.

Toney Douglas / Brandon Knight / Anthony Carter
Landry Fields / AC / Bill Walker
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / Jared Jeffries
Marc Gasol / Turiaf

They'd still have some flexibility to add a piece or two when Turiaf's deal expired...

Well said toodark. Chauncey Billups has played two games as a Knick and he is already on a flight out of Laguardia?

Insane speculation that totally overlooks how Chauncey will play in April. And it totally overlooks his importance in the locker room. Steve Nash is not the answer because of his subpar defense and rebounding. Nice that he hangs out in New York. The hair still needs work. No thank you.

2011-12

Chauncey Billups/ summer league discovery/ Toney Douglas
Landry Fields / Roger Mason Jr/ (Bill Walker is on the bubble)
Carmelo Anthony / Shawne Williams
Amar'e Stoudemire / second round draft selection rebounding demon
Timofey Mozgov (please, just make it so)/ (first round selection Jonas Valanciunas or Keith Benson) / Turiaf/ Jerome Jordan auditions/ Jeffries

once a knick always a knick
RonRon
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3/10/2011  3:59 PM
when it comes down to it, CB, at his age guard..

Rose
Westbrook
Wall
Wade
Williams
Paul

not saying TD can but he will do a better job, and he will do a even better job if he gets a quality center. We can't add a quality big man with the VET Min.
We don't know if the MLE will exist or not. With Billups contract we can look to add depth to our team and find that big.
With the way TD is playing, Billup's is expendable...

martin
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3/10/2011  3:59 PM
RonRon, best you check out who is UFA vs RFA. Mo Williams has already turned is options in and is not a FA at all. Guys like Chandler and DeAndre Jordan are a big time risk because they can be matched.

Do you really think someone like Tyson Chandler is just going to up and leave Dallas and Cuban's money?

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BigRedDog
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3/10/2011  4:12 PM
We are NOT getting Chandler, Gasol or Jordan. TD is not ready to be a starting pg. We told Chauncey we are picking up his option. I rather have Chauncey here, tutor TD and find a center(leave it up to Walsh to figure it out)
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
RonRon
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3/10/2011  4:22 PM
Again, Billups is a great player. We just have too many holes to fill. He could be a starting pg and be GREAT in these teams

Spurs
Lakers
Thunder
Chicago
Orlando
Miami

backup in

Boston
Mavericks? could go either way

but we aren't these teams. These teams didn't give up all their picks and youth with holes to fill.
We are what we are, THE KNICKS. He takes too much of the cap room that we need.

TD/Sessions, Ridinour, Delonte West are players that would be more cost efficient for us.
They can combine to play a similar role that Ward/Child's played for us.
Our need for a legit center are greater than what CB brings for us.

Ward and Childs didn't have the luxury of Amare and Melo to carry the bulk of the offense.
A starting quality legit center, allows us to makes stops, start the fast break instead of needing Melo and Amare to always have to worry about grabbing the rebound for us.
They can sometimes concentrate on finishing on the break without a set D.

A player like Shannon Brown would be very interesting to add on to that type of team too.

How about our draft pick + Billups

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