fishmike wrote:your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

I don't like playing 4 on 5 offensively..We do it with Turiaf and it's even more amplified now with Jeffries..Even with our two big-time scorers it has a slight negating effect on those two and makes us much easier to guard as a whole..Plus, I honestly believe what he brings defensively is overrated somewhat..He's a bit of a disruptor with his length and semi-quickness for a big, I'll give him that, but he's far from an all-league defender..Again, who did he stop the other night against the Cavs? No one..They all went off on us--every single player..Hickson, Samuels, Sessions, Parker..He didn't make much of a difference in that game, did he? That was a game we really could've used his defensive "expertise."

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

I don't like playing 4 on 5 offensively..We do it with Turiaf and it's even more amplified now with Jeffries..Even with our two big-time scorers it has a slight negating effect on those two and makes us much easier to guard as a whole..Plus, I honestly believe what he brings defensively is overrated somewhat..He's a bit of a disruptor with his length and semi-quickness for a big, I'll give him that, but he's far from an all-league defender..Again, who did he stop the other night against the Cavs? No one..They all went off on us--every single player..Hickson, Samuels, Sessions, Parker..He didn't make much of a difference in that game, did he? That was a game we really could've used his defensive "expertise."

with Jefferies it's not so much who he stops 1-on-1 but who he helps within the team defense, and it's everyone.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think that people who really watch basketball--the nuances--understand the value of what Jefferies has brought to the team. Yes it would be nice if he converted what looks like a layup drill for a 4th grader--but what he has done is brought defensive disruption that we just did not have both on the top of the perimeter and in the paint. Jefferies was easily the best post trade transaction for any particular team -we essentially got a core tie in piece for free. If we took Jefferies off this team--we'd have to be more reliant on two players shooting 75% which is not a sustainable pace. I don't know if Jared can get back to his form of last year--seems like he is just miles away on the O but I think he becomes more valuable each game has he gets back into shape. I think once his sea legs are gone--he will grab 8-9 rebounds block a shot or twot and increase his value on the D--truly a point of weakness personnel wise. Can Uconn borrow him for a couple of weeks?

your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

Id rather have Andrew Bynum @ C but my point was that of ANY transaction AFTER the trade deadline--the Knicks made the best one for their particular team. This was a gift from Houston and it was a coup for the Knicks THIS year. We were first or second in the league in scoring before the melo trade--I think that if we had the jefferies of last year here--I doubt we wouldve traded for melo and just signed him in FA because our record wouldve been better. Melo is a great player so we certainly have our chances if we can fill everything else in. I'm Jewish--I don't like to pay full price:)

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think that people who really watch basketball--the nuances--understand the value of what Jefferies has brought to the team. Yes it would be nice if he converted what looks like a layup drill for a 4th grader--but what he has done is brought defensive disruption that we just did not have both on the top of the perimeter and in the paint. Jefferies was easily the best post trade transaction for any particular team -we essentially got a core tie in piece for free. If we took Jefferies off this team--we'd have to be more reliant on two players shooting 75% which is not a sustainable pace. I don't know if Jared can get back to his form of last year--seems like he is just miles away on the O but I think he becomes more valuable each game has he gets back into shape. I think once his sea legs are gone--he will grab 8-9 rebounds block a shot or twot and increase his value on the D--truly a point of weakness personnel wise. Can Uconn borrow him for a couple of weeks?

your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

Id rather have Andrew Bynum @ C but my point was that of ANY transaction AFTER the trade deadline--the Knicks made the best one for their particular team. This was a gift from Houston and it was a coup for the Knicks THIS year. We were first or second in the league in scoring before the melo trade--I think that if we had the jefferies of last year here--I doubt we wouldve traded for melo and just signed him in FA because our record wouldve been better. Melo is a great player so we certainly have our chances if we can fill everything else in. I'm Jewish--I don't like to pay full price:)

still my belief that melo was gonna panic on the money front and sign the extension on a nj deal before he would have let that $65M and a ny residence slip away.

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think that people who really watch basketball--the nuances--understand the value of what Jefferies has brought to the team. Yes it would be nice if he converted what looks like a layup drill for a 4th grader--but what he has done is brought defensive disruption that we just did not have both on the top of the perimeter and in the paint. Jefferies was easily the best post trade transaction for any particular team -we essentially got a core tie in piece for free. If we took Jefferies off this team--we'd have to be more reliant on two players shooting 75% which is not a sustainable pace. I don't know if Jared can get back to his form of last year--seems like he is just miles away on the O but I think he becomes more valuable each game has he gets back into shape. I think once his sea legs are gone--he will grab 8-9 rebounds block a shot or twot and increase his value on the D--truly a point of weakness personnel wise. Can Uconn borrow him for a couple of weeks?

your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

Id rather have Andrew Bynum @ C but my point was that of ANY transaction AFTER the trade deadline--the Knicks made the best one for their particular team. This was a gift from Houston and it was a coup for the Knicks THIS year. We were first or second in the league in scoring before the melo trade--I think that if we had the jefferies of last year here--I doubt we wouldve traded for melo and just signed him in FA because our record wouldve been better. Melo is a great player so we certainly have our chances if we can fill everything else in. I'm Jewish--I don't like to pay full price:)

still my belief that melo was gonna panic on the money front and sign the extension on a nj deal before he would have let that $65M and a ny residence slip away.

Well never find out--but I wouldve played out. I had great confidence in the team we were building--it may be a case of cant lose either way if we do some certain things right.

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think that people who really watch basketball--the nuances--understand the value of what Jefferies has brought to the team. Yes it would be nice if he converted what looks like a layup drill for a 4th grader--but what he has done is brought defensive disruption that we just did not have both on the top of the perimeter and in the paint. Jefferies was easily the best post trade transaction for any particular team -we essentially got a core tie in piece for free. If we took Jefferies off this team--we'd have to be more reliant on two players shooting 75% which is not a sustainable pace. I don't know if Jared can get back to his form of last year--seems like he is just miles away on the O but I think he becomes more valuable each game has he gets back into shape. I think once his sea legs are gone--he will grab 8-9 rebounds block a shot or twot and increase his value on the D--truly a point of weakness personnel wise. Can Uconn borrow him for a couple of weeks?

your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

Id rather have Andrew Bynum @ C but my point was that of ANY transaction AFTER the trade deadline--the Knicks made the best one for their particular team. This was a gift from Houston and it was a coup for the Knicks THIS year. We were first or second in the league in scoring before the melo trade--I think that if we had the jefferies of last year here--I doubt we wouldve traded for melo and just signed him in FA because our record wouldve been better. Melo is a great player so we certainly have our chances if we can fill everything else in. I'm Jewish--I don't like to pay full price:)

still my belief that melo was gonna panic on the money front and sign the extension on a nj deal before he would have let that $65M and a ny residence slip away.

Well never find out--but I wouldve played out. I had great confidence in the team we were building--it may be a case of cant lose either way if we do some certain things right.

i was getting the win-win feeling. although i had downgraded my expectations of the team we had. with AR dead in the water and moz seeming a long way from consistency i was looking at us as a .500 team till the next major move.

Ill say the disappointing part of the other team was that I really thought Randolph could be a jefferies on steroids on the D and also give us 13-14 points in an up tempo system--and thats not including what we got from Fields--that is why I guessed 53 wins--I thought with amare as the center piece Randolph as the key defensive piece a star in the making with gallo--multiple nice pieces around them a true PG--I thought we had many major components in place for a great team. It showed a glimpse of what it could be with the 13-1 and just imagine everyone improving--maybe losing chandler and gaining Melo and other size?

Finestrg wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

TMS wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

TMS wrote:all I see are threads crying doom for the next decade from you because we made the Melo trade, & on the next you're calling Fishlips the best acquisition by any team after the deadline & the missing piece. I bet you're never gonna be happy w/the Melo trade unless he averages 50 ppg for the rest of his Knicks' career & leads us to multiple championships. Good thing we got Fishlips back, this franchise has hope now.

Everyone seems to care oh so much about the furniture and could care less about the house's foundation

Fishlips is barely the nightstand that holds the jergens & toilet tissue next to my bed.

LMAO!

Decent acquisition although I'm not gonna go gaga over this guy -- I would've MUCH preferred a more traditional big man that can rebound the ball and score it in close but to be fair he's done an OK job so far..Passable..You gotta give him credit to a certain degree I suppose -- he's scrappy, he hustles, he's blended back in as if he never left, goes out of his way to create positive chemistry and he actually does posess some decent court awareness defensively but to me, that hardly makes up for the fact that he's almost completely devoid of any discernible skill otherwise. We beat the Jazz and of course that's the bottom line and will continue to be the bottom line but come on now, we carried this guy last night all the way..As our starting center in over 23 mins he finished with 0 pts on 0-2 (I mean come on, the lefty layup he blew all by himself at the rim was hysterical--welcome home JJ!!!), 6 rebs (hey what d'ya know? That's more than Amar'e had--Amar'e's just a terrible rebounder, it's amazing---I guess STAT feels like he does enough that he doesn't have to rebound the damn ball--yet another game we got outrebounded by an opponent last night btw), 1 stl, 1 blk...Oh yeah, not that JJ guarded these guys everytime down, but Al Jeff went off for 36 (17-26 FG) along with 12 rebs and even Favors played well I thought..The Jazz lost because they didn't get anything from anyone else, missed a ton of open shots (did Jeffries lockdown CJ Miles or did the dude just miss wide open jumpers all night long??) and played terrible defense..They just weren't ready to play that game for whatever reason--might have more to do with Ty Corbin and his preperation than anything Jeffries did...D'Antoni seems to think Jeffries running around trying to check much smaller guys is the way to go with this guy in an attempt to generate defensive mismatches (as if guys like TD, Fields, Melo and co. aren't capable of guarding their own guys---and how'd that work out the other night against CLEV btw? JJ Hickson, Samuels all the way down to Sessions and 50-year-old Anthony Parker----those guys were all on their games..Jeffries had little impact defending any of those guys) but like I said, you give me a traditional big that could anchor the post any day of the week and we're much better off...Just ask our little friend what she thinks about reacquiring this guy LOL :

you already know this bro but personally i woulda liked to see Corey Brewer get a chance to fill the defensive role we needed i don't know why he couldn't at least get a chance to play seems like MDA had no problems giving everyone else at least a cursory look that was added at the deadline but him... hell even Balkman got a shot, i never thought that would happen... but whatever if Fishlips can do the job i'm cool with it he's not making much in salary... pretty sad though the guy can only manage 1 point in 4 games meanwhile people are excited about us bringing him back, u hear nothing but scorn when AR or any other role player the Knicks have let go the past couple years put up any kind of numbers at all on their new teams... now i hear that MDA has pronounced JJ as our starting C for the rest of the season, which is pretty comical... he's really trying hard to justify pushing for Donnie to get him back, the other day he practically gave JJ all the credit for spurring that victory vs. the Hawks even though it was really Anthony Carter's defense that really turned the tide of the game in our favor.

BRIGGS wrote:

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think that people who really watch basketball--the nuances--understand the value of what Jefferies has brought to the team. Yes it would be nice if he converted what looks like a layup drill for a 4th grader--but what he has done is brought defensive disruption that we just did not have both on the top of the perimeter and in the paint. Jefferies was easily the best post trade transaction for any particular team -we essentially got a core tie in piece for free. If we took Jefferies off this team--we'd have to be more reliant on two players shooting 75% which is not a sustainable pace. I don't know if Jared can get back to his form of last year--seems like he is just miles away on the O but I think he becomes more valuable each game has he gets back into shape. I think once his sea legs are gone--he will grab 8-9 rebounds block a shot or twot and increase his value on the D--truly a point of weakness personnel wise. Can Uconn borrow him for a couple of weeks?

your missing the points of people's responses. The nuances of basketball are this: when you have 2-3 scoring monsters you can afford to play a player who is only usefull on one end of the court. I didnt like the Melo trade either, but this is one of the easy to see postive effects. You CANT play JJ on the old team. Who sits? Gallo? Chandler?

Id rather have Andrew Bynum @ C but my point was that of ANY transaction AFTER the trade deadline--the Knicks made the best one for their particular team. This was a gift from Houston and it was a coup for the Knicks THIS year. We were first or second in the league in scoring before the melo trade--I think that if we had the jefferies of last year here--I doubt we wouldve traded for melo and just signed him in FA because our record wouldve been better. Melo is a great player so we certainly have our chances if we can fill everything else in. I'm Jewish--I don't like to pay full price:)

still my belief that melo was gonna panic on the money front and sign the extension on a nj deal before he would have let that $65M and a ny residence slip away.

Well never find out--but I wouldve played out. I had great confidence in the team we were building--it may be a case of cant lose either way if we do some certain things right.

i was getting the win-win feeling. although i had downgraded my expectations of the team we had. with AR dead in the water and moz seeming a long way from consistency i was looking at us as a .500 team till the next major move.

Ill say the disappointing part of the other team was that I really thought Randolph could be a jefferies on steroids on the D and also give us 13-14 points in an up tempo system--and thats not including what we got from Fields--that is why I guessed 53 wins--I thought with amare as the center piece Randolph as the key defensive piece a star in the making with gallo--multiple nice pieces around them a true PG--I thought we had many major components in place for a great team. It showed a glimpse of what it could be with the 13-1 and just imagine everyone improving--maybe losing chandler and gaining Melo and other size?

I became 100% certain that Melo was gonna follow the money, whether it would've been to NJ or back to DEN if NY didn't pan out...Dude just got super antsy--you could see the writing on the wall once things reached the boiling point (which culminated in Melo reaching out to Dolan directly to gauge whether Jimmy Crack Corn was even interested in trading for him---there came a point where Melo and his men absolutely needed to know that in order to preceed---if we would've continued to remain wish washy on him I bet anything he would ended up in Jersey)..That's why I'm comfortable with what we did in the end..The only problem I have is that I think Melo could've played this a little better on behalf of the Knicks, exerting his leverage a little more over DEN which could've saved us a chip or two but in the end there's nothing we gave up that can't be replaced..Melo was BY FAR the jewel of this deal and we got him..Hey, do I wish we could've got him for a song, the way the Lakers got Gasol? Do I wish he would've willingly left millions on the table to follow his heart a-la Mike Bibby??? Of course, but to expect those things would've been completely naive and unrealistic..He wasn't lasting to FA, that much became crystal clear, not with this unresolved CBA situation looming..End of story..Why is this still being discussed?