babyKnicks wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:We got hosed... it will take us about 4 years to recover, where we will have a normal set of draft pics and the salaries tied up in melo/stoudemire aren't detrimental to the team

LOL 4 years--this is a decade wrecking trade. Remember they will have to flush out then you start over--the worst part about it is we HAD IT!!! I like Amare with the team we had--why did we not sit patiently--why did we let carmelo Anthony dictate the teams future over greed? Why is our owner and pseudo GM thomas so f stupid? these answers next time on Batman. We didnt need Melo--we needed guys like Affalo lawson nene and keptb what we had.. Also Mike D terrible job sticking randolph at the 3 pt line---terrible. He should be gone.

We never had it. The plan all along was to accumulate assets to aid the team's starphucking. They'll accumulate more assets in the next few years and then find the next "star" to overpay for.

Yeah...gallo and Chandler would have beat Cleveland ... Oh wait, they didn't either.

they didn't lose to them twice either..

toodarkmark wrote:Yes, right.

Monta Ellis wanted to play in NY. Monta Ellis was Olympic teams. Monta Ellis has made 4 all star teams and is an All Star Starter. Monta Ellis is not an undersized shooting guard. Monta Ellis has not had huge conflicts with his coaches in the past. Monta Ellis is considered a superstar peer with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. Monta Ellis has his teams in the playoffs every year.

Yes comparable numbers indeed.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:Ellis is signed for 11MM Anthony is getting 18MM and a raise. Compare the numbers. Denver is winning without Melo very easily.

Ellis 24.9pts 5.4rbs 3.40ass 2.2stls 45%
Melo 25.3pts 7.4rbs 2.8ass 0.9stls 458%

Whats the real difference between the two guys. If Ellis had Denvers piecs around them where would they be? David Lee for Ellis was on the table? So which deal and which player would you rather have. Melo? Not even close.

Felton/Douglas
Ellis/Fields
Gallo/Chandler
Amare
Moz

Keep our depth and talent and have the ability to sign chandler and have the most diverse offensive attack in the game. Melo is a ball stopper the same way and he doesn't play defense. We would be an offensive nightmare.

It's really disturbing when you look at it that way! I think it came down to nothing other than a calculation that Carmelo (plus Chauncey) brings more (immediate) money into the Cablevision corporation than
A) Ellis or
B) Gallo + Chandler + Felton + AR + our 2014 pick

Was an Ellis/Lee exchange actually on the table? Can't remember at this time- .

Not necessarily a fan of Ellis, but having him with the guys we lost would have given us the scoring punch and 1/1 ability of Ellis, plus the nice 8 man core shown above.

Very interesting to see the stats of Melo compared with those of Ellis. He would also fit in a lot better with Amare.

Fields, Gallo, Wilson, and Amare can all play at least two positions, and MDA could have had a lot of lineup flexibility.

Ellis's contract also seems quite affordable, now, although it might go to 2013-4 (player option final year).

But yes, he is not the "star" that Anthony is at this point, so he couldn't be used as well in the promotion of the team...

... and no, he was not invited to the Melo wedding, and is therefore out of the player collusion loop.

Interesting to think about as an alternative path the team might have taken, especially with the lack of value Azubuike and Randolph ended up having on the court for us.

I don't know if it was on the table or not but the bigger point is that the production of Ellis and Melo looks identical and we probably could have gotten Ellis for one-tenth of what we gave up for Carmelo.

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and you know the rest.

This team didnt even need Carmelo--just let it progress. Instead of cultivating it--we threw a grenade into the huddle.

Donnie Walsh had no part of this trade--anyone who has follow the NBA reasonably long and knows Walsh trading patterns from Indian--knows he didnt do this deal. he knows we got jacked BAD.

yea, pretty much briggs.. before we had a team that was 2 games over .500.. now we have a team that is barely playing .500 ball, with two losses to cleveland.. rofl... wow

Cut it out....This team has a much better immediate future (4-5 yrs) than our previous team. Adding Samuel Dalmebert or a player of that ilk this summer would have done nothing to help our former team pass ATL as one of the top 5 teams in the east. With this core, we have an opportunity to compete with the elite in the next year or two.

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and you know the rest.

This team didnt even need Carmelo--just let it progress. Instead of cultivating it--we threw a grenade into the huddle.

Donnie Walsh had no part of this trade--anyone who has follow the NBA reasonably long and knows Walsh trading patterns from Indian--knows he didnt do this deal. he knows we got jacked BAD.

yea, pretty much briggs.. before we had a team that was 2 games over .500.. now we have a team that is barely playing .500 ball, with two losses to cleveland.. rofl... wow

Cut it out....This team has a much better immediate future (4-5 yrs) than our previous team. Adding Samuel Dalmebert or a player of that ilk this summer would have done nothing to help our former team pass ATL as one of the top 5 teams in the east. With this core, we have an opportunity to compete with the elite in the next year or two.

Same. I think it's premature to say that if/when Billups hangs them up after next year the Knicks are done. They are certainly in good enough position for Deron or CP3. And as stated above, with Melo and Amare, some vet can be reasonably guessed to take a paycut and join the crown. We shall see.

As big a fan as I am of Paul and Williams, I wouldn't be upset if as an alternative, we used that money on a legit big (Tyson Chandler type of player) and used the rest on a vet pg (Andre Miller or someone in that mold) who might consider taking a pay cut to win a chip.

toodarkmark wrote:Yes, right.

Monta Ellis wanted to play in NY. Monta Ellis was Olympic teams. Monta Ellis has made 4 all star teams and is an All Star Starter. Monta Ellis is not an undersized shooting guard. Monta Ellis has not had huge conflicts with his coaches in the past. Monta Ellis is considered a superstar peer with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. Monta Ellis has his teams in the playoffs every year.

Yes comparable numbers indeed.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:Ellis is signed for 11MM Anthony is getting 18MM and a raise. Compare the numbers. Denver is winning without Melo very easily.

Ellis 24.9pts 5.4rbs 3.40ass 2.2stls 45%
Melo 25.3pts 7.4rbs 2.8ass 0.9stls 458%

Whats the real difference between the two guys. If Ellis had Denvers piecs around them where would they be? David Lee for Ellis was on the table? So which deal and which player would you rather have. Melo? Not even close.

Felton/Douglas
Ellis/Fields
Gallo/Chandler
Amare
Moz

Keep our depth and talent and have the ability to sign chandler and have the most diverse offensive attack in the game. Melo is a ball stopper the same way and he doesn't play defense. We would be an offensive nightmare.

It's really disturbing when you look at it that way! I think it came down to nothing other than a calculation that Carmelo (plus Chauncey) brings more (immediate) money into the Cablevision corporation than
A) Ellis or
B) Gallo + Chandler + Felton + AR + our 2014 pick

Was an Ellis/Lee exchange actually on the table? Can't remember at this time- .

Not necessarily a fan of Ellis, but having him with the guys we lost would have given us the scoring punch and 1/1 ability of Ellis, plus the nice 8 man core shown above.

Very interesting to see the stats of Melo compared with those of Ellis. He would also fit in a lot better with Amare.

Fields, Gallo, Wilson, and Amare can all play at least two positions, and MDA could have had a lot of lineup flexibility.

Ellis's contract also seems quite affordable, now, although it might go to 2013-4 (player option final year).

But yes, he is not the "star" that Anthony is at this point, so he couldn't be used as well in the promotion of the team...

... and no, he was not invited to the Melo wedding, and is therefore out of the player collusion loop.

Interesting to think about as an alternative path the team might have taken, especially with the lack of value Azubuike and Randolph ended up having on the court for us.

I don't know if it was on the table or not but the bigger point is that the production of Ellis and Melo looks identical and we probably could have gotten Ellis for one-tenth of what we gave up for Carmelo.

You lost all credibility when you even suggested that Melo is on the same level as Kobe or Lebron.

Gymkata wrote:What about retaining Billups and going for that big guy? Billups is more of a savvy, cerebral type and since he doesn't rely on explosiveness, I think his shelf life is longer.

That being said, D-Will has always been my #1 choice. Something's not right in CP3land.

I would not be mad if we ended up not getting one of those PGs, but instead added Nash to backup Billups, or vice-versa, added a very good starting center, and a strong 2-way wing off the bench. In 2012, we could have a chance to win it all with a roster that looks something like this:

C (Dalembert, Varejao, etc), Jerome Jordan
PF Stoudemire, Jeffries
SF Anthony, (2-way wing), S. Williams
SG Fields, Douglas, Rautins
PG Billups, Nash