Finestrg wrote:

simrud wrote:I think all these waiver moves are marginal one way or another. We are not going to get a rebounding, shotblocking big body player from the garbage bin of the NBA. Going to have to use the MLE and LLE to complete the front court in the summer. At least we have a decent backup PG in Carter now. I think getting a couple of decent bigs to split the C minutes is doable in the summer with MLE and LLE. We shoud be ok at backup PF between Turiaf, the 2 Williamses etc.

I don't agree dude..First off, there were/are rebounding/shot-blocking big men available--legit Cs and PFs--we just didn't target any of them apparently..And I don't think we have to throw MLE or LLE-type money at a player for the fix..There are so many players out there that we could've gotten to plug holes..Isn't that the name of the game now, plugging holes? Regarding the MLE btw -- I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season (the only way a team can use that exception) OR they might wind up doing away with it altogether in the new CBA...And then there's the overpaying issue--throwing too much money (full MLE) at a bad player like Jeffries got us in trouble once before; I'm not looking to repeat that mistake..The cap needs to be managed wisely now..No more mistakes -- we make some bad signings now, forget it--it'll take us right outta the running a couple of years from now for another big piece possibly..To me you use a MLE deal when you're ALREADY championship caliber, not before..It's a death sentence to use it before and cap yourself when you're not on that level yet..And I don't agree we're OK with Turiaf and the two Williams at back up 4/5...Turiaf IS NOT a good enough rebounder or scorer, Shawne Williams is competely out of position and overmatch trying to cover other teams' big guys inside and the coach might never even give Shelden Williams a chance anyway (regardless, dude's had an underwhelming career to say the least).

I do agree that we're OK with Carter as another PG/ball-handler off the bench though..All of our energy should've gone into identifying and getting the best frontcourt players possible -- Bigs that play big and fill holes..We didn't do that..Why I don't know.

what makes you think they aren't addressing that in their minds?

jeffries and dbrown are big and athletic and fit the style this team likes to play.

the idea that troy murphy is a better defender than either jeffries or dbrown is LUDICROUS.

who else was out there? if they'd wanted earl barron on this team, they could have signed him at any point over the past three months. it's pretty clear they weren't too enamored of his skill set after seeing him up close last spring.

misterearl wrote:The Answer Man Passes Some Strawberry Kool-ade And Rose Tinted Shades

Q. Finestrg - Why is (Earl Barron) guy not in a Knick uniform right now?

A. Because he is in a Milwaukee Bucks uniform right now.

Finestrg - Don't tell me about Jeffries' defense when we had a younger, much better defender, much better overall player in Corey Brewer that we just cut loose

AM. The NYTimes ran an excellent analysis of Corey Brewer's game being ill-suited to the Knicks based on where he shoots the ball. Not very well The Answer Man might add.

Q. Finestrg - Does Brown even have a potent enough offensive game to act as primary scorer off the bench?

A. Nope. That is not his role. Primary scorers off the bench are not generally put on waivers. Those guys are lottery picks.

Finestrg - Come to think of it, Brown's game is pretty hard to define right now.

AM. That's cool. Admit it, you've never seen him play.

Q. Finestrg - What is he exactly?

A. He is ours.

Earl. Buddy.. If you're not gonna contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion, at least go get us some breakfast or something. I'm hungry..3 eggs over easy, S&P, toast w/butter, side of hashbrowns..Oh, and a coffee--milk, 2 sugars..Thanks pal...Anyone else? Earl's going for breakfast..

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

simrud wrote:I think all these waiver moves are marginal one way or another. We are not going to get a rebounding, shotblocking big body player from the garbage bin of the NBA. Going to have to use the MLE and LLE to complete the front court in the summer. At least we have a decent backup PG in Carter now. I think getting a couple of decent bigs to split the C minutes is doable in the summer with MLE and LLE. We shoud be ok at backup PF between Turiaf, the 2 Williamses etc.

I don't agree dude..First off, there were/are rebounding/shot-blocking big men available--legit Cs and PFs--we just didn't target any of them apparently..And I don't think we have to throw MLE or LLE-type money at a player for the fix..There are so many players out there that we could've gotten to plug holes..Isn't that the name of the game now, plugging holes? Regarding the MLE btw -- I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season (the only way a team can use that exception) OR they might wind up doing away with it altogether in the new CBA...And then there's the overpaying issue--throwing too much money (full MLE) at a bad player like Jeffries got us in trouble once before; I'm not looking to repeat that mistake..The cap needs to be managed wisely now..No more mistakes -- we make some bad signings now, forget it--it'll take us right outta the running a couple of years from now for another big piece possibly..To me you use a MLE deal when you're ALREADY championship caliber, not before..It's a death sentence to use it before and cap yourself when you're not on that level yet..And I don't agree we're OK with Turiaf and the two Williams at back up 4/5...Turiaf IS NOT a good enough rebounder or scorer, Shawne Williams is competely out of position and overmatch trying to cover other teams' big guys inside and the coach might never even give Shelden Williams a chance anyway (regardless, dude's had an underwhelming career to say the least).

I do agree that we're OK with Carter as another PG/ball-handler off the bench though..All of our energy should've gone into identifying and getting the best frontcourt players possible -- Bigs that play big and fill holes..We didn't do that..Why I don't know.

what makes you think they aren't addressing that in their minds?

jeffries and dbrown are big and athletic and fit the style this team likes to play.

the idea that troy murphy is a better defender than either jeffries or dbrown is LUDICROUS.

who else was out there? if they'd wanted earl barron on this team, they could have signed him at any point over the past three months. it's pretty clear they weren't too enamored of his skill set after seeing him up close last spring.

Crzy, go back and read my last few posts on this board..All your answers are right there my dude..

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

what makes you think they aren't addressing that in their minds?

jeffries and dbrown are big and athletic and fit the style this team likes to play.

the idea that troy murphy is a better defender than either jeffries or dbrown is LUDICROUS.

who else was out there? if they'd wanted earl barron on this team, they could have signed him at any point over the past three months. it's pretty clear they weren't too enamored of his skill set after seeing him up close last spring.

Crzy, go back and read my last few posts on this board..All your answers are right there my dude..

i saw your list, frankly i wasn't terribly excited about anyone on it.

and no offense, i kind of trust donnie and mda to sign who they want and feel fits the style/culture of the team.

donnie has done a fantastic job with the locker room since he got here. derrick brown seems like a good kid - fits with the toney douglas, landry fields types. smart, lunchpail guys who keep the team's barometer pointing the right direction.

AnubisADL wrote:Not bad. I dont see him getting any burn though.

This is where my concern lies if any. Will coach play him.

Finestrg wrote:

simrud wrote:I think all these waiver moves are marginal one way or another. We are not going to get a rebounding, shotblocking big body player from the garbage bin of the NBA. Going to have to use the MLE and LLE to complete the front court in the summer. At least we have a decent backup PG in Carter now. I think getting a couple of decent bigs to split the C minutes is doable in the summer with MLE and LLE. We shoud be ok at backup PF between Turiaf, the 2 Williamses etc.

I don't agree dude..First off, there were/are rebounding/shot-blocking big men available--legit Cs and PFs--we just didn't target any of them apparently..And I don't think we have to throw MLE or LLE-type money at a player for the fix..There are so many players out there that we could've gotten to plug holes..Isn't that the name of the game now, plugging holes? Regarding the MLE btw -- I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season (the only way a team can use that exception) OR they might wind up doing away with it altogether in the new CBA...And then there's the overpaying issue--throwing too much money (full MLE) at a bad player like Jeffries got us in trouble once before; I'm not looking to repeat that mistake..The cap needs to be managed wisely now..No more mistakes -- we make some bad signings now, forget it--it'll take us right outta the running a couple of years from now for another big piece possibly..To me you use a MLE deal when you're ALREADY championship caliber, not before..It's a death sentence to use it before and cap yourself when you're not on that level yet..And I don't agree we're OK with Turiaf and the two Williams at back up 4/5...Turiaf IS NOT a good enough rebounder or scorer, Shawne Williams is competely out of position and overmatch trying to cover other teams' big guys inside and the coach might never even give Shelden Williams a chance anyway (regardless, dude's had an underwhelming career to say the least).

I do agree that we're OK with Carter as another PG/ball-handler off the bench though..All of our energy should've gone into identifying and getting the best frontcourt players possible -- Bigs that play big and fill holes..We didn't do that..Why I don't know.

Finestrg, a couple of things: First, you assumption that these D-Leagues can plug holes is a big assumption. Why, if they are so good, have they not been called up? I am trying to recall the last big to make his way from dominating the D-League to making a small impact in the NBA and am coming up empty. Most likely every team in the league could use another big and yet we don't hear any squeaks about any big men.

Second, "I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season". Let's use real numbers. Just in case you were not aware: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm. Most likely, the Knicks WILL be over cap.

TheGame wrote:

Juice wrote:

TheGame wrote:IMO this is why the Knicks made this deal. We have no backup SF other than Balkman, since MDA is trying to play S. Williams as a PF/C. Bill Walker is not a SF and Fields is playing primarily as our SG. This guy Brown can give you most of the defense and intensity that Balkman brings with the added bonus that he can hit a jumpshot (although his foul shooting is suspect). The Knicks signed him to compete with Balkman as our de facto backup SF/PF.

We will then sign Jeffries, who will likely become our starting center, and we are going to roll into the playoffs with a lineup of Billups, Fields, Melo, Amare, Jeffries, with TD, Williams, Walker, Turiaf, and either Balkman or Brown getting the rest of the minutes.

Wasn't the backup SF Corey Brewer?

Brewer weighed all of 190 lbs. He was not a SF.

That's what he played whether you agree with it or not. Pretty much his whole NBA career. Not sure what else you thought he was as he surely wasn't a small guard/point guard/power forward/nor center. In this system he probably could play center you know the same way David Lee did or 6'11" 235lb Effries will play if acquired. You know, other non centers.

Finestrg wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

simrud wrote:I think all these waiver moves are marginal one way or another. We are not going to get a rebounding, shotblocking big body player from the garbage bin of the NBA. Going to have to use the MLE and LLE to complete the front court in the summer. At least we have a decent backup PG in Carter now. I think getting a couple of decent bigs to split the C minutes is doable in the summer with MLE and LLE. We shoud be ok at backup PF between Turiaf, the 2 Williamses etc.

I don't agree dude..First off, there were/are rebounding/shot-blocking big men available--legit Cs and PFs--we just didn't target any of them apparently..And I don't think we have to throw MLE or LLE-type money at a player for the fix..There are so many players out there that we could've gotten to plug holes..Isn't that the name of the game now, plugging holes? Regarding the MLE btw -- I doubt we come in over the cap in the off-season (the only way a team can use that exception) OR they might wind up doing away with it altogether in the new CBA...And then there's the overpaying issue--throwing too much money (full MLE) at a bad player like Jeffries got us in trouble once before; I'm not looking to repeat that mistake..The cap needs to be managed wisely now..No more mistakes -- we make some bad signings now, forget it--it'll take us right outta the running a couple of years from now for another big piece possibly..To me you use a MLE deal when you're ALREADY championship caliber, not before..It's a death sentence to use it before and cap yourself when you're not on that level yet..And I don't agree we're OK with Turiaf and the two Williams at back up 4/5...Turiaf IS NOT a good enough rebounder or scorer, Shawne Williams is competely out of position and overmatch trying to cover other teams' big guys inside and the coach might never even give Shelden Williams a chance anyway (regardless, dude's had an underwhelming career to say the least).

I do agree that we're OK with Carter as another PG/ball-handler off the bench though..All of our energy should've gone into identifying and getting the best frontcourt players possible -- Bigs that play big and fill holes..We didn't do that..Why I don't know.

what makes you think they aren't addressing that in their minds?

jeffries and dbrown are big and athletic and fit the style this team likes to play.

the idea that troy murphy is a better defender than either jeffries or dbrown is LUDICROUS.

who else was out there? if they'd wanted earl barron on this team, they could have signed him at any point over the past three months. it's pretty clear they weren't too enamored of his skill set after seeing him up close last spring.

You know what, I'll actually answer these..We've got time, Earl's still at the deli.

-- I think in THEIR MINDS, they have addressed some of their needs with these two signings..I just don't agree with them..Let's see how it translates..Peronally, I think we're still a poor rebounding team..HUGE gapping hole that wasn't plugged here at all..And like I said, just my humble opinion, but Jeffries is a waste..

-- Never said Murphy addresses defense, I mentioned his rebounding and his offense, two skills simply doesn't have..Jeffries can't even hold a candle to Troy Murphy brah, it's just that simple..Tell you what though, just talking defense, I'll take Murphy's 6'11" 250 lb body for POST DEFENSE over Jeffries any day of the week. How 'bout that..

-- Who else is out there? Come on dude, you've been participating in this running discussion over the past couple of days..You know the guys we've been talking about..Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you just say somewhere on here that you'd rather have Marcus Cousin or Murphy over Jeffries?? Almost positive you did, and I agreed with you..Now if you're saying, 'well, these are the guys we got, so let's see what happens,' OK, I agree with that too. What other choice do we have now?? This is my team and I'm gonna root for any player wearing the orange & blue. I just think we could've done better..Sounds like you do too, or at least you felt like that a little while ago..

My initial reaction was "W.T.F." when I first saw the pick up. Now I like it because Felton recommended him.

Here's how I see it: not the best acquisition for this season based upon everything you already touched upon. I do think this is will pay off in the future though and Brown will become a rotation player for the Knicks. To get that on the waiver wire is uncommon. As already stated, I do think the staff completes overrates Jeffries (while this board tends to underrate him)