[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Ill give anyone a chance to explin to this board--exactly how do we improve the team
Author Thread
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/23/2011  10:26 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?


yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade--and I guarantee I will be right. When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong--well see son--we will see.

RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
2/23/2011  10:30 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?


yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade--and I guarantee I will be right. When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong--well see son--we will see.


Your wrong on this BRIGGS, give it time you will see how wrong you are.

BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/23/2011  10:32 AM
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?


yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade--and I guarantee I will be right. When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong--well see son--we will see.


Your wrong on this BRIGGS, give it time you will see how wrong you are.

Does it matter? If im right-we all lose anyway.

RIP Crushalot😞
BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
2/23/2011  10:34 AM
#Knickstaps
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/23/2011  10:34 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:you once offered our best players and 3 picks for Kwame Brown. The NBA is dominated by star players who impress their win on the game. You get it, your just in denial right now.

I'm sorry fishmike, I'm not big fan of Briggs. But there is NO WAY this is true. I refuse to believe it.

It is not possible that anyone with this sort of mark on their record would be here spouting criticisms with such unwavering conviction.

Why not? This was when Kwame was the #1 pick and had the tools to be dominating force in the league. Briggs was right to suggest such a draftic move, thats the point I'm trying to make, that getting an elite impact player is worth betting the house on, because thats the hardest thing to find in this league. Now you CAN win without it.. Detroit proved that, but you can not poopoo the value players of Melo's caliber bring.

Briggs is a good poster and if people get upset that he seems to have more leverage here with his wacky behavior than others its because he does. However few things spur more feverish debate than Briggs topics and love him or hate him he's great for the forum. The guy is all over the place and is totally ruled by emotion and his passion for the Knicks. Its always a fun ride.

I didnt like this trade either, but its done, Melo is here and this is no Marbury. Walsh didnt like to make this trade. Duh. Just like he didnt like trade Hill and a pick just to dump JJ, but he had to do it. He said from the start he wanted to have TWO stars here to build around. Give him his due... Amare + Melo after just 2 years of Isiah's mess is a good job. Lets see whats next.

fishmike--someone picked kwame Brown #1

I also said pick Amare Andrew Bynum carlos Boozer mike redd Dejuan Blair etc.... was I wrong when i posted 500 time shere to draft bynum or 300 time to draft amare stoudemire on nkybasketball.com? or reckognize guys like dwayne wade chris bosh chirs kaman befor anyone sle did here? identify SECOND round picks like boozer redd blair with the ability to draft them and others I have hit on???? come on lets be honest thats a pretty good record for a regular joe. I said last year to guarantee jimmer freddet our 32--hiow does that look now???now he is top 10 pick fishmike--I dont want to on --everyone makes dumb nba trade speculation--but no one here is even close to picking out guys for the draft over the years--be fair and honest. ive made mistakes with marcus Williams morris almond but look at that list of nBA stars that I picked from both rounds????

you missed my point exactly. I didnt mention your Kwame Brown proposal to take shots at you. I dont do that here. Read what I wrote... I agreed... not with that trade, but with the philosophy. That you have to take a risk sometimes because players of that impact are SO HARD to get. Hey... Only Lebron and Darko were picked in front of Melo in a pretty good draft class.

Anytime you make a trade like this it hurts. Most everyone here liked these guys we gave up.

Just be paitent and see what Melo adds, and be patient and see what Walsh adds as well.

Knicks have 2 guys who can drop 40 in a playoff game. Finding the lunch pale guys to put around them is easier than the findind the guy who can drop 40 in big games in May

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/23/2011  10:36 AM
Fishmike--walsh DID NOT want this trade-. anyone who believes that is naive.
RIP Crushalot😞
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
2/23/2011  10:36 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?


yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade--and I guarantee I will be right. When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong--well see son--we will see.


Your wrong on this BRIGGS, give it time you will see how wrong you are.

Does it matter? If im right-we all lose anyway.

We weren't winning anything with the other team so how are we losing.

BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

2/23/2011  10:36 AM
FeltonandAmare wrote:
“We retained room for the next summer, which is the summer we wanted to retain the room for,” Walsh said.

Only Stoudemire, Anthony and Renaldo Balkman ($1.5 million) are signed for 2012. But the new labor agreement could put a franchise tag on stars to restrict movement to players such as Paul.

Kudos to Walsh for making all these upgrades while maintaining cap space in 2010. That's a tough parameter to work through.

I'm not much better at math than Briggs, but it seems to me one of the reasons for the acquisition of Billups is his larger expiring contract than Felton's. The best option to get Paul or Williams may be free agency, but it may also be salary reduction, especially in light of a franchise tag. By taking on Billups and his option we're better situated to add salary in trade down the road, offering salary relief in return. We've doubled our options to land another stud while improving the PG in the short term.

Or no?

Elite
Posts: 26372
Alba Posts: 23
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #510

2/23/2011  10:38 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Fishmike--walsh DID NOT want this trade-. anyone who believes that is naive.

i think your very wrong, did he want to give up this much? no... but this was his call at the end of the day. Walsh knows what he is doing

BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/23/2011  10:42 AM
BlueSeats wrote:
FeltonandAmare wrote:
“We retained room for the next summer, which is the summer we wanted to retain the room for,” Walsh said.

Only Stoudemire, Anthony and Renaldo Balkman ($1.5 million) are signed for 2012. But the new labor agreement could put a franchise tag on stars to restrict movement to players such as Paul.

Kudos to Walsh for making all these upgrades while maintaining cap space in 2010. That's a tough parameter to work through.

I'm not much better at math than Briggs, but it seems to me one of the reasons for the acquisition of Billups is his larger expiring contract than Felton's. The best option to get Paul or Williams may be free agency, but it may also be salary reduction, especially in light of a franchise tag. By taking on Billups and his option we're better situated to add salary in trade down the road, offering salary relief in return. We've doubled our options to land another stud while improving the PG in the short term.

Or no?


Its not happening unless we get rid of Fields and then its still going to be hard. every time you think of the cap--think of this in 2012 with JUST

Amare balkman and cap holds--losing fields douglas this years pick etc.. would also be a killer no??? our cap number is
20
20
1.7
3.2mm(8 cap holds at 400k)
------
45mm if the current system stays in place--cap number of 58mm--reduced by 10%=54mm then wed have roughly 9mm --oh and 9 dleaguers and vet minimums.

I cant believe how something so easy to see is blinding people--but you will find out.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/23/2011  10:43 AM
Elite wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Fishmike--walsh DID NOT want this trade-. anyone who believes that is naive.

i think your very wrong, did he want to give up this much? no... but this was his call at the end of the day. Walsh knows what he is doing

Ill tell you what elite--if you hooked him up to a lie detector--it would be jumping off the table. walsh is gone my man.

RIP Crushalot😞
BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
2/23/2011  10:44 AM
knickstorrents wrote:
BigSm00th wrote:miami has 60+ million locked up with their big 3. what will happen to those guys? what about LA with kobe getting 30 million at the end of his contract. is he going to be 80% of the lakers' payroll? no.

This is a fallacy.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm

First year salaries are 14.5mm per. And guess what - LBJ and Wade are better than Melo!

right and i'm not talking about first year salaries, i'm talking about after the CBA IE 2012-13 and beyond in response to briggs' contention that there will be a 45 mil salary cap. the heat have $52 mil committed to the big 3, not to mention another $13.55 committed to haslem, mike miller, and joel anthony (LOL!). if there is a hard cap salaries are getting rolled back and it'll effect everyone -- contrary to briggs' assertion that it will only impact the knicks.

#Knickstaps
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
2/23/2011  10:44 AM
Briggs, I do think that a salary reduction by percentage is the easiest way to fix the issues in the NBA. If they try to completely redesign the system, its going to mean an incredibly long lockout.

If you look at our situation versus the top five teams in the East that we're trying to jump over, I don't really see ours as much worse.

Does Miami, Boston, Orlando, Chicago have some prospects that I don't know about that they're going to use to get better?

Chicago is going to have to sign Rose and Noah to big deals, Boston's got to sign Big Baby to a big deal... then what?

We've got two of the top ten scorers in the league in their prime. Boston's got an aging core. Orlando's star isn't locked up. What are they going to do? They've got bigger problems than us.

We'll buy picks. D'Antoni will get production out of them that is outsized for their draft slot. Free agents will play here for less to get easy shots in an easy offense.

What else do you want us to say? That's a pretty solid plan.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Knickoftime
Posts: 24159
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/13/2011
Member: #3370

2/23/2011  10:45 AM
Andrew wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

What cap number and starting salary are you figuring for this?

I'm assuming a $60m cap, which may be liberal.

Stat - $18.2
Felton $7.6
Turiaf - $4.4
Gallinari - $4.2
Mozgov - $3.3
Randolph - $2
Douglas - $1.1
Walker - $.9
Rautin - $.8
Fields - $.8
2011 pick - $1.25(rounded est.)

Chandler cap hold - $6.3

$50.75.

Now the Knicks got Brewer for Randolph, not a pick, so we can go back and forth on whether they could have shed that $2m for a pick and not salary, but I'm staying with what we know.

That leaves a little over $9m for a free agent, and this also assumes Chandler is willing to play ball and not sign an offer sheet with another team while the Knicks take care of other business.

So the questions become.

1.) Would the Grizzlies and/or Clippers match said first year offer?
2.) Would any other team offer either player a superior offer?
3.) Would either player want to play in NY and/or inf a system that doesn't emphasize centers and for a coach seemingly not enamored of them?
4.) Would either of these players (particularly Jordan) be WORTH the contract they will receive?

You're GOING to overpay, by rule, and write in projection and potential into an offer that would make their current team pass. This much is fact. So the question is how confident are you not only in their ability to eventually justify the contract, but actually play the differencemaker role you imagine they would?

Consider spending this money, and signing Chandler WOULD the the last gasp of the Knicks cap space during the Stoudemire era, so are a LOT of conditions that have to go the Knicks way that give them a net gain for passing up Anthony.

I've said this before, most trade/signings that ARE made at NEVER going are to look at attractive as the speculation fantasy of future options going EXACTLY as hoped.

Some fans are imagining the Clippers letting Jordan go and him blowing up. Any student of history however know the odds of that are long.

Knickoftime
Posts: 24159
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/13/2011
Member: #3370

2/23/2011  10:52 AM
BRIGGS wrote:yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade

Now you're waffling, and transparently refusing to acknowledge to Knicks are BETTER today.

You just qualified it as "in better position".

So then the question you asked again goes back to you. How do the Knicks get better with the roster they had.

[quote[--and I guarantee I will be right.

Not if you understand what the word "guarantee" means you can't.

When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong-

I'm growing to like you, being as big a fan of self-importance as I am.

fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/23/2011  10:53 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Fishmike--walsh DID NOT want this trade-. anyone who believes that is naive.
your right... its INSANE to suggest that any GM would want to aquire a 5x all star in the prime of his career who is a winner and wants to play here. Its totally outlandish.

The reason you could never run a team and Walsh can is he can trade players he has emotional ties to.

The players we gave up will not be easy to replace and it will take some time to refill the roster with talent like that, but the piece we got back is much harder and Walsh knows it. Thats why he did it.

Walsh said himself, what the KNicks have are two guys who can drop 40 on you in the playoffs. Those are the hardest to find. The other guys are easier to find. Yes we gave up a good group, but even the GM of Denver said they got fleeced.

Your only looking at half the facts, and they are the half you like

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
2/23/2011  10:56 AM
1) Have Dolan removed by the NBA for conduct detrimental to humanity. Leave Walsh in charge of the money and Cablevision. David Stern should be able to get Obama to back this up.
2) Buy the Nets, ship the entire franchise to LA, force the Clips to move to the NBDL, take Griffin and any future 1st round draft picks.
3) Threaten to nuke Florida if they don't secede from the Union, fold the Magic franchise, give all supporting players to the Miami Hate, take Howard, give the Magic future 1st round picks to the LA Nets.
4) Get CP3 in a sign and trade for Renaldo Balkman, Kazempukey, Roger Mason, Corey Brewer, future royalties to any IT book deals.

5- Dwight Howard
4- Stat
3- Blake Griffin
2- Melo
1- CP3

Eat me.

BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/23/2011  11:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  11:01 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

What cap number and starting salary are you figuring for this?

I'm assuming a $60m cap, which may be liberal.

Stat - $18.2
Felton $7.6
Turiaf - $4.4
Gallinari - $4.2
Mozgov - $3.3
Randolph - $2
Douglas - $1.1
Walker - $.9
Rautin - $.8
Fields - $.8
2011 pick - $1.25(rounded est.)

Chandler cap hold - $6.3

$50.75.

Now the Knicks got Brewer for Randolph, not a pick, so we can go back and forth on whether they could have shed that $2m for a pick and not salary, but I'm staying with what we know.

That leaves a little over $9m for a free agent, and this also assumes Chandler is willing to play ball and not sign an offer sheet with another team while the Knicks take care of other business.

So the questions become.

1.) Would the Grizzlies and/or Clippers match said first year offer?
2.) Would any other team offer either player a superior offer?
3.) Would either player want to play in NY and/or inf a system that doesn't emphasize centers and for a coach seemingly not enamored of them?
4.) Would either of these players (particularly Jordan) be WORTH the contract they will receive?

You're GOING to overpay, by rule, and write in projection and potential into an offer that would make their current team pass. This much is fact. So the question is how confident are you not only in their ability to eventually justify the contract, but actually play the differencemaker role you imagine they would?

Consider spending this money, and signing Chandler WOULD the the last gasp of the Knicks cap space during the Stoudemire era, so are a LOT of conditions that have to go the Knicks way that give them a net gain for passing up Anthony.

I've said this before, most trade/signings that ARE made at NEVER going are to look at attractive as the speculation fantasy of future options going EXACTLY as hoped.

Some fans are imagining the Clippers letting Jordan go and him blowing up. Any student of history however know the odds of that are long.


Trade Turiaf Rautins and Randolph to Minnesota for 2012 pick--that opens up OVER 7mm in additional cap space 2 what we had and puts as at roughly 35mm in cap. that gives you the room int he world to do what you want.

RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
2/23/2011  11:08 AM
We have a 2011 first round pick, we can buy another pick if there's someone we like late in the first round.

This team will need to be re-stocked through the draft.

We have no idea what the CBA will look like cap-wise or if the MLE will survive... but they might. If there was no MLE, the Lakers wouldn't have gotten Ariza, Artest, Steve Blake and many many others over the years. It's completely possible to build over the cap. I don't see any way in which the owners make a hard cap. The Heat, Celtics, Mavs, Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, Rockets, would all freak out.

The Nuggets have a payroll of $70M right now - you think they intend to get their payroll down to $50M post lockout?

¿ △ ?
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
2/23/2011  11:09 AM
Briggs, Walsh is claiming they'll have max cap room in 2012 - I trust his numbers a lot more than yours. No offense. But he's been doing this longer and he has the better information about what this will all look like post lockout.
¿ △ ?
Ill give anyone a chance to explin to this board--exactly how do we improve the team

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy