Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?

yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade--and I guarantee I will be right. When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong--well see son--we will see.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?

yes my premise is that the Knicks as a team were in much better position before the trade--and I guarantee I will be right. When I am this convinced about something--whatever that might be i am almost Never wrong--well see son--we will see.

Your wrong on this BRIGGS, give it time you will see how wrong you are.

FeltonandAmare wrote:
“We retained room for the next summer, which is the summer we wanted to retain the room for,” Walsh said.

Only Stoudemire, Anthony and Renaldo Balkman ($1.5 million) are signed for 2012. But the new labor agreement could put a franchise tag on stars to restrict movement to players such as Paul.

Kudos to Walsh for making all these upgrades while maintaining cap space in 2010. That's a tough parameter to work through.

I'm not much better at math than Briggs, but it seems to me one of the reasons for the acquisition of Billups is his larger expiring contract than Felton's. The best option to get Paul or Williams may be free agency, but it may also be salary reduction, especially in light of a franchise tag. By taking on Billups and his option we're better situated to add salary in trade down the road, offering salary relief in return. We've doubled our options to land another stud while improving the PG in the short term.

Or no?

BlueSeats wrote:

FeltonandAmare wrote:
“We retained room for the next summer, which is the summer we wanted to retain the room for,” Walsh said.

Only Stoudemire, Anthony and Renaldo Balkman ($1.5 million) are signed for 2012. But the new labor agreement could put a franchise tag on stars to restrict movement to players such as Paul.

Kudos to Walsh for making all these upgrades while maintaining cap space in 2010. That's a tough parameter to work through.

I'm not much better at math than Briggs, but it seems to me one of the reasons for the acquisition of Billups is his larger expiring contract than Felton's. The best option to get Paul or Williams may be free agency, but it may also be salary reduction, especially in light of a franchise tag. By taking on Billups and his option we're better situated to add salary in trade down the road, offering salary relief in return. We've doubled our options to land another stud while improving the PG in the short term.

Or no?

Its not happening unless we get rid of Fields and then its still going to be hard. every time you think of the cap--think of this in 2012 with JUST

Amare balkman and cap holds--losing fields douglas this years pick etc.. would also be a killer no??? our cap number is
20
20
1.7
3.2mm(8 cap holds at 400k)
------
45mm if the current system stays in place--cap number of 58mm--reduced by 10%=54mm then wed have roughly 9mm --oh and 9 dleaguers and vet minimums.

I cant believe how something so easy to see is blinding people--but you will find out.

knickstorrents wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:miami has 60+ million locked up with their big 3. what will happen to those guys? what about LA with kobe getting 30 million at the end of his contract. is he going to be 80% of the lakers' payroll? no.

This is a fallacy.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm

First year salaries are 14.5mm per. And guess what - LBJ and Wade are better than Melo!

right and i'm not talking about first year salaries, i'm talking about after the CBA IE 2012-13 and beyond in response to briggs' contention that there will be a 45 mil salary cap. the heat have $52 mil committed to the big 3, not to mention another $13.55 committed to haslem, mike miller, and joel anthony (LOL!). if there is a hard cap salaries are getting rolled back and it'll effect everyone -- contrary to briggs' assertion that it will only impact the knicks.

Andrew wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

What cap number and starting salary are you figuring for this?

I'm assuming a $60m cap, which may be liberal.

Stat - $18.2
Felton $7.6
Turiaf - $4.4
Gallinari - $4.2
Mozgov - $3.3
Randolph - $2
Douglas - $1.1
Walker - $.9
Rautin - $.8
Fields - $.8
2011 pick - $1.25(rounded est.)

Chandler cap hold - $6.3

$50.75.

Now the Knicks got Brewer for Randolph, not a pick, so we can go back and forth on whether they could have shed that $2m for a pick and not salary, but I'm staying with what we know.

That leaves a little over $9m for a free agent, and this also assumes Chandler is willing to play ball and not sign an offer sheet with another team while the Knicks take care of other business.

So the questions become.

1.) Would the Grizzlies and/or Clippers match said first year offer?
2.) Would any other team offer either player a superior offer?
3.) Would either player want to play in NY and/or inf a system that doesn't emphasize centers and for a coach seemingly not enamored of them?
4.) Would either of these players (particularly Jordan) be WORTH the contract they will receive?

You're GOING to overpay, by rule, and write in projection and potential into an offer that would make their current team pass. This much is fact. So the question is how confident are you not only in their ability to eventually justify the contract, but actually play the differencemaker role you imagine they would?

Consider spending this money, and signing Chandler WOULD the the last gasp of the Knicks cap space during the Stoudemire era, so are a LOT of conditions that have to go the Knicks way that give them a net gain for passing up Anthony.

I've said this before, most trade/signings that ARE made at NEVER going are to look at attractive as the speculation fantasy of future options going EXACTLY as hoped.

Some fans are imagining the Clippers letting Jordan go and him blowing up. Any student of history however know the odds of that are long.

BRIGGS wrote:Fishmike--walsh DID NOT want this trade-. anyone who believes that is naive.

The reason you could never run a team and Walsh can is he can trade players he has emotional ties to.

The players we gave up will not be easy to replace and it will take some time to refill the roster with talent like that, but the piece we got back is much harder and Walsh knows it. Thats why he did it.

Walsh said himself, what the KNicks have are two guys who can drop 40 on you in the playoffs. Those are the hardest to find. The other guys are easier to find. Yes we gave up a good group, but even the GM of Denver said they got fleeced.

Your only looking at half the facts, and they are the half you like

Knickoftime wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

What cap number and starting salary are you figuring for this?

I'm assuming a $60m cap, which may be liberal.

Stat - $18.2
Felton $7.6
Turiaf - $4.4
Gallinari - $4.2
Mozgov - $3.3
Randolph - $2
Douglas - $1.1
Walker - $.9
Rautin - $.8
Fields - $.8
2011 pick - $1.25(rounded est.)

Chandler cap hold - $6.3

$50.75.

Now the Knicks got Brewer for Randolph, not a pick, so we can go back and forth on whether they could have shed that $2m for a pick and not salary, but I'm staying with what we know.

That leaves a little over $9m for a free agent, and this also assumes Chandler is willing to play ball and not sign an offer sheet with another team while the Knicks take care of other business.

So the questions become.

1.) Would the Grizzlies and/or Clippers match said first year offer?
2.) Would any other team offer either player a superior offer?
3.) Would either player want to play in NY and/or inf a system that doesn't emphasize centers and for a coach seemingly not enamored of them?
4.) Would either of these players (particularly Jordan) be WORTH the contract they will receive?

You're GOING to overpay, by rule, and write in projection and potential into an offer that would make their current team pass. This much is fact. So the question is how confident are you not only in their ability to eventually justify the contract, but actually play the differencemaker role you imagine they would?

Consider spending this money, and signing Chandler WOULD the the last gasp of the Knicks cap space during the Stoudemire era, so are a LOT of conditions that have to go the Knicks way that give them a net gain for passing up Anthony.

I've said this before, most trade/signings that ARE made at NEVER going are to look at attractive as the speculation fantasy of future options going EXACTLY as hoped.

Some fans are imagining the Clippers letting Jordan go and him blowing up. Any student of history however know the odds of that are long.

Trade Turiaf Rautins and Randolph to Minnesota for 2012 pick--that opens up OVER 7mm in additional cap space 2 what we had and puts as at roughly 35mm in cap. that gives you the room int he world to do what you want.