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Now we know why Nets keep raising the price for the Knicks - offering first round picks for Chandler, Gallo, Felton??
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VDesai
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2/21/2011  1:34 PM
fishmike wrote:
VDesai wrote:I do agree that most of the leaks are coming from the Nets and this is their tactic
do you (or anyone) see that being a factor to Walsh? He's got self conviction and a healthy streak of self rightousness. He's going to make a deal HE wants to make or he wont make one. He can walk away today and run 10 teams in this league.

I know that Walsh will make the right move, but I live in fear of Isiah's influence on Dolan. I know I should ignore that stuff, but there's been too much leaked over the past year to suggest that its playing some kind of role in what's going on.

AUTOADVERT
s3231
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2/21/2011  1:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  1:37 PM
I'll agree that we are overreacting a bit as none of this has even been completed yet but I think no matter what, the Nets owner has already done a great job leveraging every small ounce of power he has (the small threat that Melo could sign an extension in NJ even though everyone knows it's not his first preference).

I mean he already has helped ensure that we pay a high price if we are able to land Melo. Now they are playing mind games with us and threatening to get guys like Gallo/Mozgov on the cheap.

Nets are in good hands...I don't think there is anything wrong with us acknowledging that their owner seems to know what he is doing.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Knicksfan
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2/21/2011  1:43 PM
I dare a hollywood writer to make a more twisted and crazy script than this one. We are all being held hostage to the easily manipulated and uninformative media, who seem to love being played by Denver and New Jersey. This is such a ridiculous situation that imagining Denver and New Jersey executives sitting in a room laughing like silly 70's villains while they torture NY isn't out of the realm of possibilities anymore.

So let me get this straight: Denver manipulates the media so Dolan brain-farts into giving up a fair deal. But that isn't enough, Denver wants more so they could flip the players to NJ, who wont be extended by Melo but they still have a chance to get him anyway? And if NY does what most would find logical, that is walking away, they would fall into NJ and Denver's master plan of making Melo accept NJ?

This is crazy!

NY shouldn't walk away, instead they should go back to their first offer, leaving Felton and Gallinari out. Tell them its the last offer and let them get crazy convinving Melo to stay or accept NJ. Only way the Knicks can fairly accept this ridiculous situation.

Knicks_Fan
MS
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2/21/2011  1:44 PM
Just pull out of the deal and issue a statement. Let the Nuggest panic. The old man was playing this perfectly till **** face got invovled and called the Nuggets directly.

Gallo or Chandler, plus AR and pick. Make it your final offer. If we miss out which we will Chandler becomes Chandler again and we get rolling it's that simple. That's why we have been slumping.

Trade Curry and the 2014 for Sammy or include AR if you have too and we can go to war in the playoffs

Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  1:46 PM
s3231 wrote:I mean he already has helped ensure that we pay a high price if we are able to land Melo.

Not really.

Guys, this has been reported ad nausuem since the beginning and many KNicks fans have chosen to not to believe it, thinking it was just a bargaining tactic.

Multiple writers have said that Denver is NOT motivated to deal with NY, not only because they don't want to lay down and give 'melo everything he wants as he's spurning them, but that Denver really just isn't too keen on the Knicks young players.

Many of us have tuned this out, believing that in the end, Knicks could get 'Melo for Wilson Chandler and Randolph, or pick him up as a free agent.

It was that hope/assumption/expectation that is fueling the frustration now, despite it maybe never being a possibility.

Nets are in good hands...I don't think there is anything wrong with us acknowledging that their owner seems to know what he is doing.

Disagree. He might be a shrewd, cut-throat businessman, but I think he's utterly misreading a market he doesn't understand.

And despite some Knicks fans claims here that they will become Nets fans, I don't think he fully understands the nature of regional sports loyalty.

I think he think the fanbase is for sale, that the population of NY outside the confines of Brooklyn is up for grabs, and if he does, he'd be completely mistaken.

Nets had a terrible off season. They're having a terrible season. Their head coach and best player are at odds.

I've YET to see a basketball decision that I'd consider a good one.

I've seen a few non-basketball decisions that have been awful.

And if this heavy-handedness is accurate, I think these tactics will turn on him too.

MaTT4281
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2/21/2011  1:49 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Nets are in good hands...I don't think there is anything wrong with us acknowledging that their owner seems to know what he is doing.

Disagree. He might be a shrewd, cut-throat businessman, but I think he's utterly misreading a market he doesn't understand.

And despite some Knicks fans claims here that they will become Nets fans, I don't think he fully understands the nature of regional sports loyalty.

I think he think the fanbase is for sale, that the population of NY outside the confines of Brooklyn is up for grabs, and if he does, he'd be completely mistaken.

Nets had a terrible off season. They're having a terrible season. Their head coach and best player are at odds.

I've YET to see a basketball decision that I'd consider a good one.

I've seen a few non-basketball decisions that have been awful.

And if this heavy-handedness is accurate, I think these tactics will turn on him too.

But they've got a billboard.

Man, f*** that billboard!

earthmansurfer
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2/21/2011  1:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  1:53 PM
In fairness to Knick fans becoming Net fans. There is something to that. It would be more like a slap to Dolan than the Knicks. Remember, when protesting a corporation, just don't buy their product. Well, if Dolan is F'ing things up (we don't really know that though yet) and we gut our team then how can fans object? Don't buy the product. Now, that said, maybe we will be a good team, but I think we will be too gutted. Hopefully there are other deals on the table after a Melo deal is done as we will need a center, The Frenchman is too injury prone.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Andrew
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2/21/2011  1:53 PM
Community trade?
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MaTT4281
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2/21/2011  1:53 PM
Knicksfan wrote:I dare a hollywood writer to make a more twisted and crazy script than this one. We are all being held hostage to the easily manipulated and uninformative media, who seem to love being played by Denver and New Jersey. This is such a ridiculous situation that imagining Denver and New Jersey executives sitting in a room laughing like silly 70's villains while they torture NY isn't out of the realm of possibilities anymore.

So let me get this straight: Denver manipulates the media so Dolan brain-farts into giving up a fair deal. But that isn't enough, Denver wants more so they could flip the players to NJ, who wont be extended by Melo but they still have a chance to get him anyway? And if NY does what most would find logical, that is walking away, they would fall into NJ and Denver's master plan of making Melo accept NJ?

This is crazy!

NY shouldn't walk away, instead they should go back to their first offer, leaving Felton and Gallinari out. Tell them its the last offer and let them get crazy convinving Melo to stay or accept NJ. Only way the Knicks can fairly accept this ridiculous situation.

I'm with you. This is just too much. If we were smart, we'd ignore all these damn rumors for the next four days and trust Donnie to do his job (yeah, yeah, Dolan, I know), but we're taking the bait and bending over the second something new pops on twitter!

Denver can play their games for the next four days. "The line has been drawn." Hold your ground, Donnie! I have absolutely no problems going to battle with this team, as is, for the next 28 games.

GO KNICKS!

tkf
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2/21/2011  1:54 PM
BRIGGS wrote:If they get Gallo and mosgov--their rebuilding phase jumps 10 notches. They would control 2 7-1 260 pd C and a 6-10 240 pd F who are all 24 and younger

bingo... they would be doing what most of us hope we did.. actually, I think the nets become as good as we are, right away..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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2/21/2011  1:56 PM
fishmike wrote:
VDesai wrote:I do agree that most of the leaks are coming from the Nets and this is their tactic
do you (or anyone) see that being a factor to Walsh? He's got self conviction and a healthy streak of self rightousness. He's going to make a deal HE wants to make or he wont make one. He can walk away today and run 10 teams in this league.

fish... gallo and chandler are gone.. Dolan has set that in motion.. No backing out now... at this point, it comes down to this deal not just being horrible, but the degree of horrible... how bad can this get...?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
VDesai
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2/21/2011  2:01 PM
The biggest issue with the trade IMO is trading Felton. The PG is the most important player in the system and is crucial to getting the other players up to speed. You need someone who can push the pace and Felton is that guy. I've never been a big fan of Billups and unless Deron or Paul is coming here I don't think we'll get anywhere. Melo and Amare will only work with a very good PG at the helm.
Moonangie
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2/21/2011  2:12 PM
Knicksfan wrote:I dare a hollywood writer to make a more twisted and crazy script than this one. We are all being held hostage to the easily manipulated and uninformative media, who seem to love being played by Denver and New Jersey. This is such a ridiculous situation that imagining Denver and New Jersey executives sitting in a room laughing like silly 70's villains while they torture NY isn't out of the realm of possibilities anymore.

So let me get this straight: Denver manipulates the media so Dolan brain-farts into giving up a fair deal. But that isn't enough, Denver wants more so they could flip the players to NJ, who wont be extended by Melo but they still have a chance to get him anyway? And if NY does what most would find logical, that is walking away, they would fall into NJ and Denver's master plan of making Melo accept NJ?

This is crazy!

NY shouldn't walk away, instead they should go back to their first offer, leaving Felton and Gallinari out. Tell them its the last offer and let them get crazy convinving Melo to stay or accept NJ. Only way the Knicks can fairly accept this ridiculous situation.

I would be fine with your plan. Original offer, come what may.

s3231
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2/21/2011  2:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  2:15 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
s3231 wrote:I mean he already has helped ensure that we pay a high price if we are able to land Melo.

Not really.

Guys, this has been reported ad nausuem since the beginning and many KNicks fans have chosen to not to believe it, thinking it was just a bargaining tactic.

Multiple writers have said that Denver is NOT motivated to deal with NY, not only because they don't want to lay down and give 'melo everything he wants as he's spurning them, but that Denver really just isn't too keen on the Knicks young players.

Many of us have tuned this out, believing that in the end, Knicks could get 'Melo for Wilson Chandler and Randolph, or pick him up as a free agent.

It was that hope/assumption/expectation that is fueling the frustration now, despite it maybe never being a possibility.

Nets are in good hands...I don't think there is anything wrong with us acknowledging that their owner seems to know what he is doing.

Disagree. He might be a shrewd, cut-throat businessman, but I think he's utterly misreading a market he doesn't understand.

And despite some Knicks fans claims here that they will become Nets fans, I don't think he fully understands the nature of regional sports loyalty.

I think he think the fanbase is for sale, that the population of NY outside the confines of Brooklyn is up for grabs, and if he does, he'd be completely mistaken.

Nets had a terrible off season. They're having a terrible season. Their head coach and best player are at odds.

I've YET to see a basketball decision that I'd consider a good one.

I've seen a few non-basketball decisions that have been awful.

And if this heavy-handedness is accurate, I think these tactics will turn on him too.


I've never believed that Chandler and Randolph was a good enough package to get it done but no one also thought that we would have to give up Felton/Chandler/Gallo/AR and a 1st (our 2014 pick supposedly) just to have a good chance! Note, that this isn't even the final deal as Denver hasn't accepted and there's a very real chance Mozgov might be included as well. So to me, it's clear that we have gone over our self-imposed price for Melo and are giving up good value for him (when the consensus was in the beginning that we could force Denver to give him for less if Melo didn't want to extend anywhere else).

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Moonangie
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2/21/2011  2:20 PM
This is moronic. We are already offering way too much for Melo BEFORE adding Moz. NJ and Denver are trying to play us for fools. I don't want Melo at this cost, or even really at all anymore. Already passed my breaking point. Too much self-respect to play this game anymore.

Walk away from this stinker now, Donnie. Save your dignity. Phuck Dolan if he can't sand losing a starphuck opportunity. Relish the respect you have garnered in your wonderful accomplishments and step away from this pile of poo.

fishmike
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2/21/2011  2:22 PM
tkf wrote:
fishmike wrote:
VDesai wrote:I do agree that most of the leaks are coming from the Nets and this is their tactic
do you (or anyone) see that being a factor to Walsh? He's got self conviction and a healthy streak of self rightousness. He's going to make a deal HE wants to make or he wont make one. He can walk away today and run 10 teams in this league.

fish... gallo and chandler are gone.. Dolan has set that in motion.. No backing out now... at this point, it comes down to this deal not just being horrible, but the degree of horrible... how bad can this get...?

your believing everything you read man!

For good or evil I think we learn everything we need to know about the Dolan/Walsh/Isiah dynamic after Thurs.

If there is no trade, or its highly in favor of the Knicks Walsh is running the show.
If there is a lopsided Gallo, Chandler, picks, Mosgov, Felton type trade w/ Billups and Melo coming back this has Isiah/Dolan written all over it.

at least thats how I am reading this..

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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2/21/2011  2:23 PM
Has Nalod told you guys to fear the Russian for a year now?.

That Jersey Nets under Ratner is not the Brooklyn NYets of Prokhorov?

What Dolan suck as is how hard it is to cultivate talent. Think of the time, energy and money that went into Moz and just as the guy is starting to play he COULD throw him in to get his little toy. Think what that does to his scouts, coachs and GM? Sure they pay these guys but you know somtimes its cool to see the hard work pay off and become tangable.

And Brooklyn is not Jersey. If Gallo and Mozzy end up on Nets I'd have to laugh my ass off. NYers you should be happy. You can root for both teams to do well and it keeps the interest up. IF Dolan is just going to starhuch he'll have a short window to enjoy the fruits of it but if the Russian INVESTS long term he will build something lasting.

Dolan seems to act like a little reactive premature ejaculator who gets what he wants.

Nets will win over many fans. HE is playing chess with dolan and little jimmy does not realize he is getting played.

If this is all true then Prokhorov is winning points with me. Think I won't tune in to root for Gallo and Mozzy?

crzymdups
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2/21/2011  2:25 PM
i still don't believe the nuggets are negotiating in good faith with the knicks. i think the mozgov request and the routing players to the nets leak are just bull**** intended to try to push the knicks away from the table once and for all so the nuggz can say, "look, melo, we tried, the knicks just wouldn't play ball. now how about this nets offer?"
¿ △ ?
Andrew
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2/21/2011  2:28 PM
crzymdups wrote:i still don't believe the nuggets are negotiating in good faith with the knicks. i think the mozgov request and the routing players to the nets leak are just bull**** intended to try to push the knicks away from the table once and for all so the nuggz can say, "look, melo, we tried, the knicks just wouldn't play ball. now how about this nets offer?"

agree

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NYKBocker
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2/21/2011  2:29 PM
WTF? I do some work and check here and read more insanity. We need to go back to initial offer of just Curry, Chandler and AR.
Now we know why Nets keep raising the price for the Knicks - offering first round picks for Chandler, Gallo, Felton??

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